00:00:06.580 - 00:00:25.240

I think that's the way it works with all of us now. Collective memory. I spoke with Claudia on Monday night and she sort of filled me in a little bit on the background of

00:00:25.240 - 00:00:34.420

when the project started, which she said at the 40th reunion in 1986. It was when the sort of... What project? A project of trying to get

00:00:34.600 - 00:01:01.120

history. Oh, yes was it was one piece of a piece of the of the intervention the intervention was a big call the coalition of all the established organizations plus the

00:01:01.120 - 00:01:18.480

few that were put together for a purpose. But then the oral history started out there. And the person that was really interested in moving it was, who can you forget? Who Who can forget?

00:01:22.120 - 00:01:41.340

What's her name? Sandy. Oh, Sandy? Sandy Pine. Oh. Oh, so, I didn't get the list of all the items. Great.

00:01:49.660 - 00:02:07.360

We ended up with a very sort of random collection. What does 60 take me? 40th anniversary interviews, June 86, several interviews, 60 take.

00:02:07.360 - 00:02:13.200

Oh, that means 60 minutes. Oh, 60 minute tape, okay. As opposed to 90. And what's the OH1?

00:02:13.520 - 00:02:18.500

Okay, that's just the numbering. Oral history is one. Oh, oral history is one. Uh-huh, okay.

00:02:19.120 - 00:02:27.380

And so the tapes are numbered like that? Yeah. I see. So one, two, and so you did, I got the impression from, was it Stan

00:02:27.380 - 00:02:40.520

and Madeline, that The interviews at that time were kind of like, there was a place where people would come and talk about recollections or something? Well, there's two kinds there. Let's see if they're in the theater.

00:03:02.640 - 00:03:27.080

Oh yeah, it's two, three, and four. They're indicated here as 40th anniversary interviews. I guess it's 2 and 3. It just says 40th anniversary

00:03:27.080 - 00:03:29.120

interviews. I guess it's two and three. One, two, and three. It just says, for the anniversary

00:03:29.120 - 00:03:32.740

interviews. What they were, yeah, they were done at a booth. Uh-huh.

00:03:33.080 - 00:03:41.460

And I have no idea. So it's, hi there, where are you from, I guess. And they make a few comments.

00:03:42.260 - 00:03:56.260

And so that's one kind. Then the ones that have individuals listed for them, they're an extensive interview. Now, then the, So the first three, I think, are those compilation

00:03:56.540 - 00:04:08.040

sort of. And who was manning the booth? Was that with Sandy? Well, Sandy probably was and others.

00:04:11.140 - 00:04:18.180

I come to think of it, I don't have their name on the tape. Uh-huh. And who has those tapes? I have.

00:04:18.180 - 00:04:26.440

Oh, you do? So may I borrow them sometime and listen to them? Well, I'd rather copy them for you. Oh, that would be terrific.

00:04:27.040 - 00:04:34.820

That would be great. I'll just copy them. Okay, and then here, Ed and Sandy Rovner, interviewed by Gloria Schwartz.

00:04:35.080 - 00:04:46.920

Great. David and or Morris Weiss interviewed by question. John Herling interviewed by Gloria Schwartz. Lou Schwartz interviewed by question.

00:04:47.720 - 00:05:04.760

Wow and so these were 60 minute interviews done all right around, well, 87, 86. I wasn't guaranteed 60 minutes. There were interviews done in that year, and they were probably I

00:05:04.760 - 00:05:13.760

don't know maybe did some of them maybe two sides maybe some of them are one side. So Vernon Demar's interviewed by Mirian.

00:05:13.980 - 00:05:17.980

Yeah Mirian's a dad out in California. Oh neat. He's the architect.

00:05:18.700 - 00:05:32.460

Wow. Open mic session conducted by the History Club. Oh well that was that was at this last that was at the what is it 48th reunion? Right.

00:05:33.120 - 00:05:38.400

It says April 10, 1984. Do you think that was '94? Yes. '94?

00:05:38.940 - 00:05:47.220

Yes. So people, there was an open mic there, too? Well, yes. We had a session.

00:05:48.580 - 00:05:54.780

There's a lot of socializing. Then there was a session. Everybody sat down in the ballroom.

00:05:56.540 - 00:06:02.640

And there was a panel that supposedly started it. You were there. Yeah, well, anyhow, I just have a paper that.

00:06:02.700 - 00:06:09.840

Oh, neat. The only advantage of it, it suggests a lot of things. It's not very definitive.

00:06:10.020 - 00:06:28.320

But all kinds of topics are raised which it's a good checklist Great Oh, yeah Oh. Great. Let me see something in there.

00:06:28.320 - 00:06:53.160

Oh, yeah. Now, one here, that ape there, Helmut Kern, he was the head of the Washington co-ops at that time. And he assisted the people here and getting this community

00:06:53.340 - 00:07:07.580

started. And the interesting thing about it is he was, so they selected five people to attend the auction. In other words, they didn't want to have a crowd.

00:07:07.660 - 00:07:15.740

They didn't want to have a herd of people there to frighten the locals. So he was one of the five that attended.

00:07:19.260 - 00:07:36.480

He was married to John Hurling and others. Anyhow, he was one of them. It, he relates the discussion they had after the After the auction,

00:07:37.760 - 00:07:46.020

they bought the place. They were walking around the property looking at it. And a lawyer approached them, A

00:07:46.020 - 00:07:57.600

Rockville lawyer saying that if they wanted to get there, see they had a very elaborate plan for the community. I mean, it had a shopping center and a movie theater and all. Wow.

00:07:57.900 - 00:08:09.180

It was a good plan. And the other thing is that diversified housing. It wasn't all one family houses like this that had some apartments and this and that.

00:08:09.180 - 00:08:19.940

So the idea is, as you got older, you could sell your house and move in the apartment and still be in the community. Well, anyhow, the county took a

00:08:19.940 - 00:08:30.820

dim view of that. Because it was the era of the single family home was the ideal. So anyhow, this guy approached

00:08:30.820 - 00:08:51.360

them and said, I can get your plan through the county, approved by the county, if you're interested. Well, of course, the committee was shocked by the offer of success through a bribe or something.

00:08:51.820 - 00:09:12.340

So anyhow, they discussed and discussed it, and they voted three to two to turn his plan, turn his idea down. So anyhow, he describes that a little bit fine But that I don't know that's just a side of That was a and unfortunately he is now

00:09:13.580 - 00:09:28.740

I found Helmut. Yeah, he was he was he got the mailing for the last annual meeting and his wife He never lived here, he didn't well So they had the plan already when they

00:09:28.740 - 00:09:38.720

bought the property apparently they had or else they had some ideas or something. They had enough to know. And enough so that it seemed to have gotten out enough so that

00:09:38.720 - 00:09:46.040

some rock-and-roll lawyer knew about it to come? I guess, yeah. Huh. So what was his, What was his position?

00:09:46.040 - 00:09:57.140

You say he was with the DC co-ops. Was it like an organized group? Well, yeah, it was, you know, the consumer co-ops. Uh-huh.

00:09:57.380 - 00:10:04.340

Oh, the consumer. The two pine tree co-ops. Uh-huh. They had a big operation in town here and they had a number of

00:10:05.740 - 00:10:31.920

Groceries a grocery stores and they had various have a sheet that has a clipping of his from the co-op newsletter about Bannockburn and the purchase. Uh-huh.

00:10:32.260 - 00:10:34.900

And so that's in the news. Sure. Of the purchase. And so that's an interesting

00:10:34.900 - 00:10:50.060

thing. Sure. So the Pine Tree Co-ops were a, when you say consumer, was it more than grocery? All sorts of?

00:10:50.060 - 00:11:02.480

Yeah, I think they had some insurance programs and... They had a number of activities. Now, the Greenbelt... Is it Greenbelt? Yeah.

00:11:02.980 - 00:11:11.100

That was a part of it. That was a part of it. So the Greenbelt, did that precede Bannockburn? I think by one year.

00:11:11.120 - 00:11:18.000

Uh-huh. It was about the same time. But They were in business, I think, before us.

00:11:19.220 - 00:11:28.680

I, you know, this can all, you need to determine all this more accurately. I'm only a student, so I'm not talking. Right.

00:11:28.780 - 00:11:55.740

But, yeah. And now did that this co-op failed I mean as a co-op let's see it was started in '46 And then they had failed by '50 or so. I mean, the co-op as a co-op itself, I mean, dissolved.

00:11:59.380 - 00:12:07.260

Really? I mean, the whole. That's what BCI is. Yeah, but the ownership of the houses and all of that, that... I mean, hadn't it been originally

00:12:08.160 - 00:12:15.760

that everything was to be cooperative? Oh, you mean one unit? Right. Oh, no. I don't know about that. It was...

00:12:15.760 - 00:12:29.100

The co-op was organizing it and had certain common lands, but I think they intended to sell the houses. Do you think so? I don't know. Now all this is, you know, you got the history book?

00:12:29.100 - 00:12:36.400

Right, I have it right here. Okay, well that's pretty well laid out in there. But I wouldn't say it failed.

00:12:36.580 - 00:12:48.400

I mean, it had various crises from time to time. But I don't think it was, I don't even think you'd say it failed. Right. I don't think they intended to own

00:12:50.200 - 00:12:54.840

all the houses and run it as a commune or something. Uh-huh. I don't think that was their... Uh-huh.

00:12:55.020 - 00:13:06.720

But I... Claudia mentioned some other interviews that she thought had been done? Well... Did you...

00:13:07.040 - 00:13:28.260

Were you aware of those or... She thought that an interview had been done of of Bookbinder and Hurling? No, I guess not. Not that I know of.

00:13:28.260 - 00:13:35.860

And that Wanda Maltz might know about that? Maybe. I don't know. She had never heard the

00:13:35.860 - 00:13:47.120

interviews. She had just understood that they had been done. And Wanda Maltz, where does she

00:13:47.120 - 00:14:01.860

live? As we say on the other side of the valley, right, right Dad, does she have a grown son? Yes. Who lives in Lynchburg?

00:14:02.500 - 00:14:09.640

Somewhere. I think he... He showed up, you know, he showed up a week or two ago. Did he? Yeah, he and his...

00:14:09.720 - 00:14:19.160

Okay, his father... Yeah, they're over on Lavrock Court. Right.

00:14:20.840 - 00:14:28.720

His father, his father was involved... Yeah, they were over on Lavrock Court. His father was involved. Well, he'd been on a lot of the

00:14:29.180 - 00:14:39.140

BCI and BCC. But he was the guy that set up the files up in the clubhouse. That's what his big job, he did a

00:14:39.140 - 00:14:44.160

good job. And Ryan and me around 1980, we were all in. Wow.

00:14:46.420 - 00:14:55.980

So they were over here, Was it Michael Maltz? Something like that. I can't remember. Yeah, the Maltz boy, let's say.

00:14:56.580 - 00:15:02.380

They were both over here, and they wanted the key, and they were going to have to move the house and stuff. Uh-huh.

00:15:09.620 - 00:15:31.020

Well, I heard that she was transcribing some tapes. Well, okay, now, as far as I know, I know that, see one of the problems, none of these have been transcribed. So Claudia was getting people to do some transcribing.

00:15:31.260 - 00:15:40.220

Right, And I guess Wanda was one of those people. Maybe. And then I have a note, Rita Goldberg, who was she? I don't know.

00:15:40.380 - 00:15:52.700

I don't know, maybe she was somebody that they were She in the book? Was helping to transcribe or something like that too. No. No, I don't.

00:15:53.260 - 00:16:02.680

I want to. Well, I think that's one of the problems we ran into immediately. It's fun to get tapes, but who's

00:16:02.680 - 00:16:14.320

going to transcribe them? Yeah. I mean, I think it's worth it to just pay, get one person to transcribe them all. Try to, first of all, centralize

00:16:14.320 - 00:16:22.120

them, and then get one person and just pay them. Hire some secretary somewhere, some lawyer's secretary that does this kind of stuff. Or somebody that you can't get

00:16:22.120 - 00:16:32.140

into. Yeah, I mean anybody. But get one person to do it, get all the tapes together and, you know, run it through in a confined time frame.

00:16:33.080 - 00:16:46.060

Well, that's what I was hoping that at least I could try and locate all these disparate tapes, and then maybe get copies of them, and get them all together, and, you know, know who they are, when they were done.

00:16:46.240 - 00:17:01.180

And then I can't transcribe them, but what I can do is I thought I would listen to them all. And that way I could bring myself up to speed of what's been done, who's been interviewed, what are the interesting common threads

00:17:01.280 - 00:17:17.820

that I can then use to move forward with. So that the interviews that we do now, close to 10 years later, aren't talking about an entirely different subject. There's a way to tie this all together.

00:17:18.900 - 00:17:30.780

Well, it's a very good project, but it has its own quirks that have to be dealt with. Right. It has complications.

00:17:31.560 - 00:17:45.480

Right, right. Well, I was hoping that I could, if I could get everything, listen to it, and then maybe at the same time Claudia could find somebody to transcribe once we got them all together, and then start to pull

00:17:45.480 - 00:17:57.600

some common threads, and then look and see who hasn't been interviewed at all. And try to start on some of, you know, maybe I can get five or six good hour interviews on tape.

00:17:59.340 - 00:18:13.640

As I recall from anything I've heard of oral history too, you make the tape and then you transcribe it and then you give the transcription back to the person to check it over and make any additions or corrections or so on.

00:18:14.240 - 00:18:22.000

It's a whole process. Absolutely. I've never seen a book on oral history, but these people have a whole process to go through.

00:18:22.540 - 00:18:30.980

Now some of the tapes, you know, I mean if there is a tape of both Reiter and Herling, clearly we're not going to... There's some of these things that

00:18:32.060 - 00:18:41.300

won't be able to be reviewed. Though maybe some of the interviewers, I have no idea who interviewed them. Maybe some of the interviewers are around.

00:18:42.180 - 00:18:51.000

Obviously, the person that's around them, they don't need to check it. But I mean, it's just a process. Right, absolutely.

00:18:52.420 - 00:19:12.840

And then, certainly further down the road, trying to pull it together into something. Claudia, did you see, you saw this thing that she circulated, I think she circulated this at the 40th, 48th, at that thing in April.

00:19:15.060 - 00:19:24.340

Yeah, no, you're right, the 48th. The 48th, I think. I guess I did see this number on mine. Yeah.

00:19:24.340 - 00:19:31.020

Yeah. Uh-huh. And this just included, I mean, this was, I think, a lot.

00:19:31.640 - 00:19:42.720

I was wondering if on this first page here, it says she, Claudia indicated to me that she thought those were original settlers. Yeah.

00:19:42.720 - 00:19:55.280

And then, but then, so then I asked her, how do you define original settler? And so she said she was going to use the definition of original owner. And then.

00:19:55.680 - 00:20:03.340

Still residing in the house. Well, I guess they don't even have to be still residing. Right, right. Just the original owner, right.

00:20:03.340 - 00:20:12.900

Yeah, original owner, just because I guess what she was in, from her point of view, what we want to do is capture those early types. That's the ones that start with. Yeah, exactly.

00:20:12.980 - 00:20:20.500

No, that's a good, that's a simple, that's a very clear definition. And then I wondered, like for example, the first two on the list are the blenders, and I don't know

00:20:20.500 - 00:20:28.390

if they were even, they didn't come until close to the '60s, did they? Well, here's the thing, here's the thing, I mean here's the list. Oh, what's...

00:20:28.390 - 00:20:39.900

The original owners. Oh, so that means... See in this, in the back of this, it's got the first column. The first column is the area of the owner.

00:20:40.940 - 00:20:48.400

That's all I'm saying. That's just what I need here. Okay. So, let's see.

00:20:48.400 - 00:20:57.840

They're on Craythe. So they're original owner, present owner. And what's this date as of?

00:21:00.200 - 00:21:07.880

I guess it was '84. Yeah, you have to go by the present phone book for the present owner. Right, right.

00:21:09.140 - 00:21:26.840

But the column over here about the original owner is permanent. Right, yeah. Well, then it would seem that the Blinders are not of this crowd at

00:21:26.840 - 00:21:36.500

all. I thought they moved here from California in the very early '60s, you know, like maybe '62 or something like that.

00:21:36.660 - 00:21:42.500

Yeah. I wonder... Who was the original owner of that house? Well, you know, on Cravey, there

00:21:42.500 - 00:21:53.220

are just three houses. What, let me look and see what their address is here. Yeah, there's 6214.

00:21:54.480 - 00:22:03.560

6214, so that's not on here. Oh. So I don't know if that means that at this time it wasn't built and they were original owners of that.

00:22:03.560 - 00:22:12.800

It was a little odd thing. Well, that may be, then they still may be the original owners. Right, right. Because the house hasn't been

00:22:12.800 - 00:22:21.720

built. Right. So then, you know, so then original owner and now if the house was built in the '60s, are they still part of it?

00:22:22.540 - 00:22:32.240

You know, I don't know we may end up... Well, that's alright. ...Having a certain time frame. Well, it's still the, it's still, it's the same definition holds.

00:22:32.280 - 00:22:38.860

Uh-huh. It doesn't, It doesn't have anything to do with when the house was built. It's just the original owner and a present house.

00:22:38.860 - 00:22:50.680

Right. Unless what we're interested in is capturing from, let's say, as a first chunk from about 1946 maybe to 1960.

00:22:52.240 - 00:23:10.400

So really at that point then we might even take anybody who was living here in that time period. Definitely original owners, but if original owners left, you know, after the first few years, I guess at one point Bannockburn, when I

00:23:10.400 - 00:23:27.420

was talking to the Sigels, they said that when the co-op began to dissolve as holding everything in common. They offered people to either get a thousand dollars cash or to get their lots.

00:23:29.280 - 00:23:40.080

And a lot of people took the cash at which point the lots then opened up. And she said that what was interesting that I thought, what made this neighborhood so attractive to them, and they came

00:23:40.080 - 00:24:00.400

in 1956, and they are original owners, they built their house in the summer of '56, she said that since the, once they distributed the land among individuals in that way, what was available for builders was a pocket here, a pocket there, and not like, you

00:24:00.400 - 00:24:13.440

know, large 12 blocks in a row. And so what she said, that made this area so distinct among the suburbs growing up at the time, because the builders couldn't come in and bulldoze all the trees,

00:24:14.060 - 00:24:22.800

because they didn't have large tracts of land to bulldoze. So she said at that time... And also the houses were different.

00:24:22.920 - 00:24:33.980

Yes, exactly. She said there's a few places where they're the same, like over on, I think she was talking about Calendar or something like that, where they got a larger parcel.

00:24:34.300 - 00:24:39.860

But the rest of them, she said, were pretty much individual. And so the houses were quite different.

00:24:40.080 - 00:24:49.380

And even if they were the same, there was one on East Halbert, and one over on West Halbert, and one over somewhere else. There was one clump, this

00:24:49.380 - 00:24:56.940

Merrimack house. Right. There's a lot of them. And that was an effort led by

00:24:56.980 - 00:25:09.960

Buki. It was sort of a revolt. Oh, really? The co-op was going so slow, and so he organized a protest from over here to get some houses going

00:25:09.960 - 00:25:15.740

over here. And that's in the book. Huh. I don't know if they haven't heard

00:25:15.740 - 00:25:24.900

there was a meeting. Uh-huh. How is...has Bucky been interviewed? I heard he was.

00:25:25.080 - 00:25:31.740

Yeah, she said Hurley. Well, I could interview him now. Is he interviewed all the time? I don't think so.

00:25:32.080 - 00:25:37.400

But I'm not sure. Oh, well, he's around. Yeah? I think you ought to find out.

00:25:38.640 - 00:25:42.840

I think you ought to get your own interview on that. That would be great. Yeah.

00:25:42.900 - 00:25:48.140

And who's the other one you mentioned? Hurling. Oh, no, Hurling. Right, right.

00:25:48.740 - 00:25:56.300

Oh, I've tried Wookiee [Hoagy?]. And another guy is Morrie Wise. Okay. He's an active original.

00:25:56.820 - 00:26:23.920

And is he still over there? Yeah, he's in Wilson Lane. Great. Great. When did you move here, Hoagy? Oh, I'd say 1970.

00:26:23.920 - 00:26:27.140

Seventy? Yeah. OK. It's a [In the] 1970s. 70s? Yeah.

00:26:27.640 - 00:26:38.580

They were the third owner of this house. Almost a dead before '70. Let's see.

00:26:38.580 - 00:26:41.580

I'm going to give my chair a look. I'll must have done before. Let's see. Can I give my address? Sure.

00:26:46.260 - 00:26:55.680

So you're 6313, so the Netterstroms? Yeah. Yeah, they were... That's who we brought the house to.

00:26:55.680 - 00:26:59.080

Uh-huh. Now they list them as original owners. Oh yeah.

00:26:59.100 - 00:27:39.840

Well, there was some guy before that. But anyhow. Oh, I see you're looking at... Oh, they were the original buyer, the Nedestrom buyer.

00:27:39.920 - 00:27:56.180

Oh, 6313, yeah. Yeah, around here, see, you got, well, along around here on this street, you got Hans, I was surprised that Hans Heyman is an original.

00:27:57.340 - 00:28:02.860

Huh. He's such a young looking guy. Really? Yeah, but he's a, I don't know him.

00:28:02.860 - 00:28:08.340

Well, He lives across from Claudia down there. Uh-huh. And he's an original owner.

00:28:08.340 - 00:28:18.680

He was telling us about the, he was the first one to move in on this street. Really? And they had a problem with, the street wasn't paved and they had to bulldoze, they were bulldozing

00:28:18.840 - 00:28:30.040

the road and he had to save some trees because they were going to knock some trees down and stuff like that. He was the first one. So which number is he, let's see?

00:28:30.180 - 00:28:40.540

6407. 6407, great. And Colburn across the street. And what's, let's see, Colburn,

00:28:40.920 - 00:28:49.900

that's? 6400. 6400, oh, great. And Bellman for which one was 6405.

00:28:49.900 - 00:29:03.740

And Bellman, which is a woman who's 62 or 65. Now, among others I'm recommending, I would suggest you interview Bellman.

00:29:06.340 - 00:29:15.980

She, her personality and meanings are such that nobody wants to go close to her. You know who she is. Yeah, sure.

00:29:16.080 - 00:29:23.300

But she knows the stuff. She really knows it. She's very knowledgeable. And so, from that, so...

00:29:25.160 - 00:29:36.920

So then that, I think Annette, Annette, in that mode, I think she'd be fine. Yeah, oh no, I look forward to interviewing her. She'll have all kinds of failings.

00:29:37.200 - 00:29:51.420

Ha ha ha ha. Well, I found her on the. Oh, and Sam's an original owner, right? Oh yeah, of course.

00:29:51.420 - 00:29:59.540

Right, how could we forget that? Now, there, alright, now Sam, see now Sam is different. He, I'm not sure what he'll have to say.

00:29:59.540 - 00:30:06.480

Well, that's fine, who cares? Right. But he'll have to say on the other hand, he's a pleasant person.

00:30:08.000 - 00:30:18.000

But he's sort of the opposite. No, but Sam and Mellie, that's good. And Esther Delaplaine? Yes. But she doesn't live in that house anymore.

00:30:18.580 - 00:30:23.930

Doesn't she live in a different house or does she still live in that one? No. No, no. No, that's the house she's already in. Is she still in that one?

00:30:23.930 - 00:30:29.760

Yeah. She lives right across the street here. Great.

00:30:30.260 - 00:30:38.100

Oh, yes. Wow. So that's a good. And now Peckman over there on

00:30:38.100 - 00:30:51.300

Wilson Lane, right? Isn't she an original on her? Ellen's mom, I don't know. Oh, yeah. It's on here, I think.

00:30:51.380 - 00:30:58.140

Right. What is she on? Elgin, then? She's on Wilson, 7112. She's right across from Roxburn

00:30:58.180 - 00:31:06.560

Drive, right on the other side, sort of there. Yeah. Oh, Wilson, yeah. Yeah, she's on that.

00:31:06.900 - 00:31:12.340

And who else is on that? Oh, there's Murray Weiss there. And Murray Weiss. Oh, and, oh, definitely.

00:31:12.340 - 00:31:16.520

And Wagman. And Betty Wagman. Right. Betty Wagman is really wonderful.

00:31:18.340 - 00:31:29.000

Yeah, she's lovely. I guess that's not our criteria here. But Jill and Joe, she's very nice to me. And Stassie, you know.

00:31:30.140 - 00:31:36.180

Who's that? Stassie Dunas. She's president of DCI. I don't know her.

00:31:39.600 - 00:31:48.800

A retired law judge. Oh, she is? Yeah. Judge Dunas. She worked in the labor

00:31:48.800 - 00:31:54.640

department. Uh-huh. A lot of people from labor. Let's see, well now, and I could

00:31:54.640 - 00:32:03.960

also, the Reifmans, even though they're not there, I mean, they were original... The original owner of that house. Right.

00:32:04.600 - 00:32:14.720

That's good. Blackman, are they? Yeah, well he's the original owner. I don't know him.

00:32:15.060 - 00:32:22.100

I don't either. I see his name. Yeah, and they're still there. Yeah?

00:32:22.800 - 00:32:28.060

Wow. Well, that's fine. Yeah, I know he was active. Uh-huh.

00:32:31.380 - 00:32:40.580

Yeah, I've seen his name as president here and there, of this and that. Yes, he's been president of the Department of Justice.

00:32:51.140 - 00:32:56.000

Oh yeah, and Harold Goldstein? Oh yes. Do you know him? I don't know him at all.

00:32:56.000 - 00:33:00.460

Oh, yeah, he's the vice president of UCI. Uh-huh. He's a fine fellow.

00:33:01.360 - 00:33:15.520

Oh, sure. Yes, I've met him. Most notably, He's the one that put up the signs all around out there that says no dumping please.

00:33:15.580 - 00:33:32.500

Oh really? They have all kinds of pictures of signs of the signs that say no dumping, please with a huge pile of junk under it But that's what they're taking care of today And then how do you spell this? HODDES That's Sylvia Do you know

00:33:32.500 - 00:33:44.900

her? What street? Also on Wilson, 7000 Wilson. H-O-D-D-E-S. 7000, oh, I don't have a 7000.

00:33:44.900 - 00:33:57.220

Oh, oh, oh, 7000 or something. Oh, okay, No, I don't know her. I don't know her. I haven't been around much.

00:33:58.740 - 00:34:04.520

And then William and Bernice Gold, they're also a Richard Martin. Yeah, I don't know them very well. Uh-huh.

00:34:05.460 - 00:34:13.280

But they're Richard Martin. And they're, uh-huh, I've never seen them. Yeah, Harold Goldstein's fine. Well, you know, I just know people

00:34:13.280 - 00:34:27.260

I've dealt with. Right, yeah. Well, I'll do those first, you know, People who might be more forthcoming and lively, I might as well start there.

00:34:27.700 - 00:34:45.420

And we've also got Norton and Dorothy Combe. Well, yes. There's Norton I don't know at all Dorothy comb I knew at the labor of Houston office director What

00:34:45.420 - 00:34:55.460

she knows about the community. She's a princess. She's a... You know what?

00:34:58.660 - 00:35:22.400

Oh, Newton, E-Newton? Did it say Newton? I don't know, he said E. Come, yeah and here it says Norton oh on that no he's not They listed as original on 7044, Wilson. Oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

00:35:24.000 - 00:35:28.380

Oh, oh. Well, that's a comb. Uh-huh. I got hurt, yeah.

00:35:28.380 - 00:35:46.120

Yeah? But don't have any in art. And then we've got... Tobin.

00:35:47.520 - 00:35:51.820

Ross? Yeah. Is that Ross one or is it Ruth? I don't know her.

00:35:51.820 - 00:36:00.300

Uh-huh. Peckman's. Right, right I'll start with I'll start with her over there that'd be a good idea.

00:36:06.340 - 00:37:01.300

Oh, another one. And here's another one. And here's another one, Pearl Stewart, also over there on Wilson.

00:37:06.160 - 00:37:17.800

Wow, that's a lot of people. Yeah, it's got plenty of work done. Yeah. So What kind of person are you

00:37:17.800 - 00:37:42.620

looking for? When you get down to boiling this down, what are you trying to find out? Well, I think what Claudia seemed to be most interested in, And I think what she said in a lot of ways probably captures what people

00:37:42.620 - 00:37:52.260

are interested in from this project is what was it... Two things. Why did people come here? What brought them here? What brought them to this?

00:37:52.380 - 00:38:03.360

Either as original cooperators or people like the Sigels who moved in within the first ten years or so. What brought them here? Why Bannockburn? Why the cooperative if they were original owners?

00:38:03.680 - 00:38:14.760

I mean original cooperators, why were they interested in this movement? So what in their life brought them to this moment? And then, what were those early years like? Like, you know, the first 10 to 15

00:38:14.760 - 00:38:32.720

years? What was it like living here? So I think just as simple as that. And then from there, I would assume that if I listened to these tapes from 86 and other tapes, I

00:38:32.720 - 00:38:50.820

would imagine that there would be common threads coming out. And so then to pick up on some of those themes and make sure that they're incorporated in each interview. For example, Madeline talked about because of the Hatch Act, she said

00:38:50.820 - 00:39:02.700

that women here, most of the men worked for the government. And because of the Hatch Act, they couldn't become involved in local politics at all. So in fact, she said that at that

00:39:02.700 - 00:39:21.160

time, the organizations, the, you know, county government kinds of elected offices and Democratic Party and all that thing were basically run by women. The candidates were men, but the

00:39:21.160 - 00:39:31.680

women were the organizers and the worker bees and all that sort of thing. So, you know, political activism certainly would be a common thread, I would imagine, for a lot

00:39:31.680 - 00:39:39.440

of people. So many people had children at the time, too. So organizing and activities

00:39:39.560 - 00:39:47.940

around children and child rearing and that whole thing in school would probably have been very... Young and varied. Absolutely, yeah.

00:39:51.820 - 00:40:07.620

So pulling those common threads together as well to create, well, kind of the way this history did, in that it looked at different locusts or loci in the community, different focus points.

00:40:08.260 - 00:40:18.740

Well, an interesting difference is that that tends to be written by leaders, presidents of various or whatever. And What you're accomplishing is

00:40:19.160 - 00:40:33.540

getting a wider view from the ground level. And that will probably, I mean, knowing Bannockburn as we do, will also bring out, to a certain extent, some dissenting views as well, I would imagine.

00:40:33.900 - 00:40:47.040

Though I think Stan made an interesting comment that, you know, I can't remember how he put it, something about, you know, what is an oral history but a story? You know, you're going to get five

00:40:47.040 - 00:41:01.740

different oral histories about the exact same thing, but yet they will be five very different oral histories, because they're all your own individual version, and then colored with 40 years of rainbows or thunderclouds or whatever.

00:41:04.380 - 00:41:21.400

But that's what part of this is about too. But I think the goal being to create a document that sort of pulls together the rich memories for people. When Stan and Madeline were talking, there are a lot of common

00:41:21.780 - 00:41:36.360

things that are still going on today. I think it's very interesting that that happens. I think that brings us a thread into today, too, and gives us a sense of foundation.

00:41:36.980 - 00:41:46.280

Oh yeah, well, the first 50 years of the United States set the course, much of which is still going. Uh-huh.

00:41:47.280 - 00:42:02.080

With anything, it's like that. Right. So when I, when I, I guess I will pick people, actually, the people that I will start out picking will be, you know, people that I know.

00:42:02.080 - 00:42:12.780

I mean, like, I know Ellen Peckman, so I can call her mother and people that I know that would be willing to talk. Yeah, Sylvia is very good. Yeah, I think they have a whole...

00:42:12.780 - 00:42:22.440

Betty Wagman... They have a whole... Over in that original section over there, they have a whole... They have their own sort of organization that gets together.

00:42:22.480 - 00:42:35.140

They have a reunion every five years. Oh, do they? They get together occasionally, and whenever they get around to it, I guess. But Sylvia is one of the leaders.

00:42:35.140 - 00:42:44.980

There's two or three people that sort of pull that together. I've heard of it. Well, and I think also what I'll do is, from talking with Claudia,

00:42:45.480 - 00:42:50.800

she had some ideas. From talking with you, you have some ideas. So from talking with, you know,

00:42:50.800 - 00:42:59.000

everybody when you're interviewing says, oh, you should really talk to so and so for whatever reason. So I think I'll follow up on those threads too.

00:42:59.200 - 00:43:16.820

People that I know or that other people have mentioned would be a good storehouse of knowledge and would be willing to participate and spend some time kicking around some old memories.

00:43:17.500 - 00:43:27.480

Yeah, sure. And then we'll just see how much I can get done. So what is your... You're putting together a paper

00:43:28.380 - 00:43:33.020

for... For the AU? Right. And when is your time frame?

00:43:33.780 - 00:43:46.120

The course ends the beginning of December. What I do is a total of four papers. During the semester, I'll finish my first paper Monday, it's process papers.

00:43:47.440 - 00:43:53.180

It's just reflecting on the process. What is it like to interview people? Did you feel comfortable?

00:43:53.180 - 00:44:04.340

Was it hard? Do you feel you got the real story? That kind of thing. Did your tape recorder work? All of that sort of stuff. The nitty-gritty.

00:44:04.660 - 00:44:12.180

Yeah, right. The process. And then the fourth paper will be a short ethnography.

00:44:13.260 - 00:44:31.860

So a short description, a short paper about the fieldwork, you know, about the fieldwork itself. So in fact, I envision, and I'm not really sure how yet, that my fourth paper might be a discussion of common threads from the

00:44:31.860 - 00:44:45.920

interviews and drawing on pieces of the interviews. So quoting good, long, significant passages and talking about common threads. So when does that have to be in?

00:44:46.000 - 00:44:50.300

December, beginning of December. This year? Yeah. This year?

00:44:50.810 - 00:44:56.040

Yeah. Yeah. This is a fast track here. Yeah, that's what school is all

00:44:56.040 - 00:45:10.580

about. It's really so condensed. Well, you don't have to have a few interviews. Well, I would hope that I could get at least 10, 15 good

00:45:10.680 - 00:45:19.200

interviews. OK, that's fine. You know, and that's why I thought that this would be great, because to invest this time, because I could move this project ahead.

00:45:19.200 - 00:45:30.480

If I can get, let's say, 15 interviews, that would, I mean, it's not going to be the definitive end of the project or anything, but at least it would really give it a big impetus to move it along.

00:45:30.660 - 00:45:36.880

And then sometimes when that happens, then other people get excited and other people sort of... Oh, no, that would be wonderful

00:45:36.880 - 00:45:46.160

for us. Yeah. And so then if Claudia can arrange to have, or anybody can arrange, you know, a battery of transcribers...

00:45:47.320 - 00:45:59.040

Darn. Yeah. Then that would really, I think, be great. So that's my, you know, I'm hoping that my goals and the goals of the

00:45:59.040 - 00:46:13.860

project are pretty complementary. So that's what I'm planning. But I hope that while I do this, both you and Claudia, I see as sort of repositories of a lot of knowledge of what's gone on so

00:46:13.860 - 00:46:24.860

far, and also knowing people and knowing the history itself. So I hope I can call on you during the next couple of months if that's OK. Great.

00:46:26.400 - 00:46:36.220

What was our, where's the list of oral histories? The one, this one? No, no, the list, the one sheet list I gave you. Oh, that?

00:46:36.220 - 00:46:44.060

Did I get it back? No, you keep that, but I just want to look at it. There you go. May I keep this? Oh, yeah, that's yours.

00:46:44.060 - 00:46:50.690

Oh, terrific. Yeah, I just want to, I don't know. Great.

00:46:50.860 - 00:47:12.360

And then whenever I could get those copies of these 11 tapes, that would be fabulous because I'd really like to, I want to, It's hard to come in on something that's already eight years old, but I want to do it as much as I can, trying to make it a

00:47:12.360 - 00:47:22.960

continuous thread. So if I can listen to those so that I keep myself within the same stream, that would be very helpful to me.

00:47:22.960 - 00:47:37.620

Well, they were done by a wide, sort of random collection of people. I mean, There was no, on this oral history group, there was really no talk about process.

00:47:38.040 - 00:47:44.900

Right. It was all sort of, some people just decided they were going to interview somebody because they were interested in it, and that was about it.

00:47:44.900 - 00:47:59.440

Right. And I don't know if they knew anything about interviewing. Well, oral histories, too, from what I've looked at in the literature, it's somewhat of a new, relatively new sort of thing.

00:47:59.800 - 00:48:18.080

And I'm just actually going to a lecture on it on Tuesday night. And I have another friend who did a project, did her dissertation on oral histories of, I guess it was like gay and lesbian women in the Washington area or something like that.

00:48:18.080 - 00:48:31.920

But it's totally an oral history project. So I was going to read hers. You know, in academia, people have always been so forced to be reflexive and reflecting on things

00:48:31.920 - 00:48:43.160

and drawing theories and this sort of thing. So strict oral histories from an academic strain are a little bit on the new side. Oh, of course.

00:48:43.180 - 00:48:56.440

So that's why. But really is, I think... But certainly there's a long tradition of it. I think it's a great approach because you tend to look up the

00:48:56.440 - 00:49:10.680

literature and the things are by a study. It's one aspect of 300 years of one little sliver of the story. Whereas people put the whole thing together. It's a holistic thing.

00:49:10.680 - 00:49:23.240

Right. People can put it all together with foreign policy or astronomy or police blotter or whatever. I mean, it's all sort of all.

00:49:24.800 - 00:49:33.480

So they come at it from a quite different point of view. It's really good. Yeah. Because I'm sure it's not the panacea, but it's the...

00:49:33.480 - 00:49:43.900

Well, I was hoping, too, to talk with George Greer and see what he... Oh, yes. I spoke with him when I was doing some other project, and we just

00:49:43.900 - 00:49:57.600

began to talk about statistics and census data and things like that. And he actually did a printout of some things for me. And wow, he's a fabulous storehouse of knowledge. Well, or Eunice.

00:49:58.140 - 00:50:04.740

You see, Eunice has been president of BCI for the last three years. Right. And she's great.

00:50:04.800 - 00:50:12.160

Yeah. And she's got the community aspect. Well, George has all of these aspects. But God, there's the stuff they do.

00:50:12.160 - 00:50:22.400

Yeah. I mean, they're doing now a theories of violence, the last thing I heard from her is that they're doing a study for the judges of DC.

00:50:23.560 - 00:50:34.620

They want to know more about the people that come before them. Oh, really? Whatever that means. I mean, there's a lot of statistics about the city. Wow.

00:50:35.320 - 00:50:49.940

Wow. Yeah, he has the... When you start looking at that data, And anthropologists tend to shy away from that quantitative

00:50:50.020 - 00:50:54.720

stuff. But there is so much that it tells you. And when you put it together with

00:50:54.720 - 00:51:03.980

a kind of qualitative approach, I think it's just so rich. So if I can. Well, definitely talk to him. Because he's a neighbor.

00:51:04.660 - 00:51:14.340

You can count him as an original owner, although he isn't. Right, right. As a matter of fact, the person that lived in that house, they're

00:51:14.340 - 00:51:25.600

the ones that brought us here. Oh, really? I knew Ray Munson from the University of Wisconsin. Which was very fortunate because I don't know where we would have

00:51:25.600 - 00:51:31.520

landed. We probably would have landed in Silver Spring. And aren't we lucky you landed

00:51:31.520 - 00:51:38.080

here. This is great. I read nothing against Silver Spring, of course. I know.

00:51:38.080 - 00:51:44.140

Well, yeah. And who was it? Oh, Madeline was saying, Oh, gosh, you know, I'm in Rockville. I just could have been in

00:51:44.140 - 00:51:49.500

Rockville. I don't know. Like it was the end of the earth. Well, this is the thing.

00:51:49.500 - 00:52:01.000

Listen, there's one other aspect of this that I keep wondering about. See, there's something, some of these books on oral history, it seems I recall, there's something

00:52:01.000 - 00:52:20.020

about, there's a problem of the ownership of this stuff. You're doing it as a college research. So I guess that is a purpose. And so I guess it all belongs to

00:52:20.020 - 00:52:29.080

you then. Oh no, I would assume that I would turn the tapes back over, you know, as I told you, I would give them to whoever...

00:52:30.060 - 00:52:30.940

Thank you.