00:00:01.460 - 00:00:12.380

That was like '60, '68 with the whole Vietnam thing. People said, you know, if you're going to go to Vietnam and get killed, shouldn't you be able to vote at least? I remember that very well.

00:00:14.840 - 00:00:31.280

They're a nice cushion to get rid of the background noise. By the way, may I suggest something if you're taking many of these, many tapings?

00:00:32.860 - 00:00:45.300

My son has been doing some recently. He's been asking his, well, he's met with several people who'd graduated with him. You know, they celebrated their

00:00:45.300 - 00:01:02.480

30th high school anniversary just a few weeks ago. And he approached several people and asked them what they remembered about the, well, he was specifically interested in the integration.

00:01:02.620 - 00:01:09.300

He asked them what they remembered about it. And automatically, almost all of them said, I don't remember it at all.

00:01:09.340 - 00:01:19.460

I remember almost nothing. After talking to them for a while, or even the next day or a few days later, there were all kinds of bits of information they were able to give.

00:01:19.640 - 00:01:26.380

Right, once they'd started pulling it and processing it. And discussing it between them. One mentioned one, there were a few of them.

00:01:26.380 - 00:01:32.220

One said one thing, another one remembered something else that. Otherwise they didn't remember at all.

00:01:32.220 - 00:01:44.100

Well, that's the thing that I think eventually in doing this project... Well, I did my first interview with Stan and Madeline Siegel. And it was so...

00:01:44.100 - 00:01:51.180

We had a great time and it was like an hour and 45 minutes and all that. And so then a few days later, I was walking down the street and walking by Madeline's house.

00:01:51.180 - 00:01:57.740

And Madeline said, "Well, so what's happening? And so I sort of updated her. She said, "Well, when are you coming back?" Oh. Oh.

00:01:57.740 - 00:02:08.080

Oh. Oh. You know, it started because I taped them on like a Thursday or Friday night and the next morning, I think it was a Thursday night and the next morning they went to the beach.

00:02:08.160 - 00:02:14.560

So it started them thinking and talking and so they wanted a second session. So I think you're absolutely right.

00:02:15.140 - 00:02:22.480

And the other part of that, I mean, two things. One, you get people started, and then once it sort of ruminates and all, a lot more comes out.

00:02:22.480 - 00:02:33.420

And then the second thing, I think the point about groups. I think at a certain point, you get these individual life histories, but then it might be really interesting to get a small group of people together.

00:02:34.640 - 00:02:48.560

Because as you say, the ideas feed back and forth and then somebody says, "Don't you remember that first Halloween party you had in Emory?" "Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that." I think that's a great idea.

00:02:48.560 - 00:02:59.820

I think small, they call them focus groups now. Well, get the individuals after they've had this meeting. Exactly. The other thing is, if you give

00:02:59.820 - 00:03:15.140

them the questions you want to ask ahead of time, they can think about it. Well, this is one thing I'd like to talk about first, what you think those questions should be.

00:03:16.780 - 00:03:29.380

I'm trying to get a consensus from the people who've been involved, like Hoagy I'm trying to figure out, first of all, who's been involved in this project, and then to get a consensus so that whatever I do is fitting into that.

00:03:29.380 - 00:03:40.640

So I'm not coming in with a whole different set of questions and going in a different direction. I want to go in the direction that I get a sense that everybody has either already been going in, or

00:03:40.640 - 00:03:49.080

the direction that you all feel is important. So everybody's going in different directions. Well, I think a little bit. But I think it could be pulled

00:03:49.080 - 00:04:01.040

together, and maybe this is an opportunity to pull it together. And if it got more focus, it might also be an opportunity. I think if people felt it was a little more focused, it might be more doable.

00:04:02.980 - 00:04:17.820

How you started the thing, how he planned the 40th reunion. Everybody thought it was stupid, it was ridiculous, it was, he just went ahead.

00:04:18.820 - 00:04:40.740

Everybody was amazed at how well it turned out. But Hoagy just went on his own and started, I thought it would be a good idea that he started it, but whether he did it alone, it was mainly alone, I think.

00:04:41.600 - 00:04:54.860

And it was his own ideas, Whether he had specific ideas, it didn't seem that way. It seemed very haphazard. But it worked out beautifully.

00:04:55.280 - 00:05:05.200

It was a fabulous reunion. It was very interesting. There was several days. It was very interesting to walk

00:05:05.200 - 00:05:25.360

through the community and you see somebody who wasn't a child anymore, of course, he was an adult and looked familiar to you. You didn't know him specifically, but you knew what family he was from, either because you knew his parents and sometimes his

00:05:25.520 - 00:05:37.380

grandparents and all his brothers and sisters, so you knew what family he belonged to and you recognized him. It was very, very interesting. Did people come back from other

00:05:37.380 - 00:05:44.600

places? Yeah, they contacted people all over the world. Wow. Of course some came and some didn't.

00:05:44.600 - 00:06:02.080

Right. Like the class reunions, if they give them enough notice, a lot of the children, grown-up children, still have parents living either in Bannockburn or in the area, so

00:06:02.080 - 00:06:19.040

that they generally visit them once a year or however often. If they know enough ahead of time, they can plan the reunion. They can plan to visit their parents at that time. Without much notice, they have just been there or that sort of

00:06:19.040 - 00:06:26.580

thing. Not everybody can plan it anyway, but a lot of them can. But the people from Bannockburn

00:06:26.580 - 00:06:35.580

are all over the world, all over the United States, actually all over the world. I think more so than a lot of other communities.

00:06:38.040 - 00:06:45.060

Well, certainly the Washington area lends itself to that. That's right. The way people travel in and out, and a lot of people in

00:06:45.060 - 00:06:55.380

international service or government service and getting posted places. Certainly more, I mean I'm from Michigan and people either leave, they're gone, or they stay.

00:06:56.800 - 00:07:06.820

Yeah, well for most places, yeah. But they don't seem to connect back and forth and in and out the way people do here, you know, go overseas for, like the Reifmans, you know, and the Sigels, and

00:07:06.820 - 00:07:12.840

the... So many people go overseas for several years and then come back, but always consider this home base.

00:07:13.380 - 00:07:16.920

Well, but not like you have with the military. Right. Right.

00:07:17.140 - 00:07:24.380

But the military don't... They don't have that home base feeling. Don't have as much of a home base. The city, I mean, they moved, come

00:07:24.380 - 00:07:36.940

back to Washington, but they haven't lived in a community and formed relationships the way they have in this community. Right. Well, Wanda, what do you think are

00:07:36.940 - 00:07:57.540

good questions that we should, or what do you think has gone on in the past, and maybe where do you think we should direct or redirect ourselves now? And what's your involvement been? Well, I've only volunteered to type up some of the, I have a

00:07:58.220 - 00:08:16.240

computer, a computer, so I volunteer to type up the tapes. And was that just since the meeting in April or May? So you've just joined onto this since then. Otherwise, I'm not part of the committee for planning the

00:08:16.240 - 00:08:25.680

reunion. As a matter of fact, I volunteered to type the tape. I didn't know that there were a

00:08:25.680 - 00:08:35.280

lot of tapes already done. I thought it was just the tape of the meeting that night. And I figured I could do that,

00:08:35.280 - 00:08:45.340

having been at the meeting, I would be able to do it. I would remember a lot of things. But I tried a tape of, but then they gave me a bunch of other tapes, not that one at all.

00:08:45.720 - 00:08:57.540

And there are some others of groups and you can't understand it. It's very difficult to understand a tape particularly of a group because there's background noises.

00:08:58.260 - 00:09:05.940

It's hard to tell one voice from the other. Yeah, and you don't know whose it is. Right. This way I was at the meeting, I

00:09:05.940 - 00:09:21.700

figured I would remember who said what. This was, now you're referring to this meeting that just happened in, was it May? Like a Sunday, or was it April? It wasn't advertised enough because a lot of people would have

00:09:21.700 - 00:09:36.040

liked to have been there. That one was particularly interesting, because there were several former children. It was, yeah.

00:09:39.060 - 00:09:47.320

Who now live in the community, are very close to it. Yeah. There are two that I just found out about it that I didn't even

00:09:47.320 - 00:10:02.640

realize, that grew up living next to each other, and now they live in their parents' houses next to each other. The Guterl, Wendy Guterl, and I don't know what her maiden name is, up there on Brigadoon, and next to her, Carolyn Reynes

00:10:03.060 - 00:10:06.420

Grovard. Reynes. Reynes Grovard. Yeah, Reynes is living in her

00:10:06.420 - 00:10:11.820

mother's house, and her parents, well, her mother's house. Right. And then next to her is Wendy. I don't know.

00:10:11.820 - 00:10:19.140

Wendy. They grew up next to each other. She's now Guterl. I don't know what her maiden name was, and her parents just moved

00:10:19.940 - 00:10:32.860

out of that house to something smaller but still nearby. So there they are, they grew up next to each other and now they're raising their kids next to each other. That I didn't know.

00:10:32.860 - 00:10:37.900

I know [Reyna's], but I don't know Rhina. But I haven't seen them in a lot of these.

00:10:38.420 - 00:10:45.920

I'm sorry, what? I haven't seen them at, I didn't see them, for example, at this 40th. No, not the 40th.

00:10:46.940 - 00:10:57.820

That meeting for the planning, the 50th. Right. Well, who organized that one? There was a group.

00:10:58.200 - 00:11:03.460

I don't know who the group was made up of. The only one I know is Peckman, I think.

00:11:03.480 - 00:11:12.180

Ellen. Ellen, I guess it was. I don't know who the others were. I imagine Hoagy was involved.

00:11:12.180 - 00:11:17.680

I don't really know. Yeah, Hoagie was, I'm quite certain. Probably Claudia Levy, do you think? Yes.

00:11:18.920 - 00:11:26.080

Well, she was, yeah. I guess she was part of the group. I don't know who the group was, but if you get hold of one of them, they would know the others.

00:11:26.460 - 00:11:34.260

And I assume they're working on the thing. Well, on the 50th or on the... Yes, on the 50th. Right.

00:11:34.300 - 00:11:41.820

Yeah. Well, the 50th, part of the 50th reunion, whether they've given a different job to each person in the group. Mm-hmm.

00:11:42.040 - 00:11:50.940

And Claudia's, I guess, is responsible for the, collecting the tapes. Mm-hmm. Whether she or Hoagy or both, I

00:11:50.940 - 00:11:58.620

don't know. Mm-hmm. Well, it seems, you know, there's a little bit, you know, right-hand, left-hand sort of thing.

00:11:58.620 - 00:12:14.840

And I know that Hoagy had a bunch of tapes that, you know, how he systematically collects things over the years. And so he had 11 tapes that he's given me, which included those tapes from the 40th, the group tape where they had the mic going.

00:12:14.860 - 00:12:34.440

Oh, I didn't know. I was only at part of the thing. I had to miss one part because somebody had a, it was a 40th anniversary of daughter's reception for a daughter and I had

00:12:34.440 - 00:12:45.580

to go there and I felt badly about missing a thing. But I hear it was wonderful that night, when the group, when everybody got together. I don't know if they had a potluck

00:12:46.420 - 00:12:54.060

or something of the sort. But I miss that part of the reunion. That may have been when he took

00:12:54.060 - 00:13:05.820

the recordings. Yeah, I'm not sure at what point. He seemed to indicate that he had kind of like a table set up somewhere with a mic and different people sort of taking turns

00:13:05.820 - 00:13:17.220

holding the mic and then people came by and said, and recollected their stories, you know, the funniest thing that ever happened to me or the thing that I'll always remember, you know, that kind of thing.

00:13:17.220 - 00:13:26.820

I didn't know what they had on that thing. I'm actually not sure where it fit into the sequence of things, if that's when it was or...

00:13:27.260 - 00:13:34.020

Probably, it was a party that night. Probably then. I was there in the afternoon for the group picture.

00:13:34.820 - 00:13:39.680

Have you seen the group picture? Yes. Yeah. That's nice.

00:13:44.460 - 00:13:55.220

What's sad is to look at it and see how many people are no longer here. Big difference between then and now. But there still are so many who are.

00:13:55.240 - 00:14:10.460

Oh yes. Well, when the history of Bannockburn was written, Alice McIntyre decided that we'd better get something done before too many people are gone, we won't be able

00:14:10.460 - 00:14:25.100

to get the information anymore. That was her excuse or reason for doing it then. She got the thing going.

00:14:25.240 - 00:14:31.450

She collected a lot, of course. There were already people gone, but of course I guess that's what made her aware of the end of the Post.

00:14:31.450 - 00:14:40.870

Right, right. Well I guess that's what really sensitized Claudia too, because her job at least now, and I don't know how long, is writing obituaries for the Post.

00:14:40.870 - 00:14:46.440

Yeah, that's what I hear. I just found out. I guess she wrote for the Post. I hadn't realized what it was.

00:14:46.440 - 00:14:56.680

I hadn't either. And I guess as, you know, first one came, I mean, it probably was, you know, like a few came up all at one time in a district of, yeah, exactly.

00:14:56.720 - 00:15:07.060

And it just struck her, it struck her in two ways. One that, you know, people were dying and the other that they had led these incredible lives but it

00:15:07.060 - 00:15:20.320

wasn't recorded. Nobody had that information. She knew that these were really interesting figures. But there was nothing that she could lay her hands on, nothing

00:15:20.320 - 00:15:29.320

written down at all. And I think that's what really gave her the impetus to kind of seize the project and really try to push it forward.

00:15:29.380 - 00:15:38.940

And I think it's just been an issue of time. So, Wanda, what do you think are the, what would be the sort of synthesizing direction kind of

00:15:38.940 - 00:15:59.560

questions that you think we should ask? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Memories of Bannockburn, first memories of Bannockburn, no, no,

00:15:59.560 - 00:16:15.020

no, that's not important. But that's not important. Right. I think Claudia is thinking, and

00:16:15.020 - 00:16:30.740

I'm not sure how Hoagy's thinking, because I think Hoagy's such a historian that anything interests him. But I think Claudia's thinking of focus a little bit around why people came here and what it was like in the early days.

00:16:31.320 - 00:16:42.440

Well, it was only in the early days that people came here for a reason. Later, of course, people just got our real estate agent and some people came here by mistake, of

00:16:42.440 - 00:16:57.040

course, and moved out. Some of them came by mistake and is still here trying to change it. I know we've gotten annoyed by...

00:16:59.100 - 00:17:24.360

We've gone to meetings where people have complained about building the houses they're building off of Goldsboro. And they're going to be group houses. They're going to be, I think they're planning condos with

00:17:24.360 - 00:17:38.040

large, you know, not private houses, but connected condos. I guess a condo can be a private house too. Condo isn't the word. Whatever it is, they were going to

00:17:38.040 - 00:17:52.580

build group houses. And the people here complained that they don't want big houses near them overpowering them. They want to keep it like it was.

00:17:55.440 - 00:18:16.340

The Bannockburn originally was meant to be a combination of different kinds of houses and different kinds of people and different kinds of families. So that these people now are voting down something That was

00:18:16.340 - 00:18:29.360

part of the Bannockburn original plans. And that got me annoyed and I walked in and out. I don't go to any more meetings. The people who are running it now

00:18:31.420 - 00:18:49.140

are not running it the way the original plans, with the original plans of Bannockburn in mind. They don't know it, but it's, well it's, What they're doing is the usual, not in my backyard.

00:18:50.220 - 00:19:10.890

They came out here because it was nice and spacious, and then when they get here, they don't want somebody to move next to them and take away their privacy. And that annoys me.

00:19:12.720 - 00:19:21.980

But I don't know what can be done about it. I guess nothing. The people who are in now are the ones who are running it their way.

00:19:23.440 - 00:19:35.700

But to claim that they moved here because of Bannockburn's ideals and then go against it is what bothers me. If they weren't using

00:19:36.040 - 00:20:07.000

Bannockburn's ideals as a guideline, it would be okay. But I imagine you know the original plans of Bannockburn. It was supposed to have had apartments and private houses, apartments for young couples who had no children, who could then

00:20:07.000 - 00:20:23.800

move into private houses when they needed more space, and then when their children were grown, could move back into apartments so that it could be a permanent community with stores in the middle and the school.

00:20:26.500 - 00:21:04.840

But little by little, a lot of the things, well, Some of the things the zoning commission didn't permit, like commercial building in the community. What year did you move here? When?

00:21:05.660 - 00:21:15.320

We moved here in 1951. October. Halloween, as a matter of fact. Halloween.

00:21:16.560 - 00:21:33.180

We moved here just in time because the people next door moved in the day after Halloween and their windows were marked up with crayons. We moved in without any

00:21:33.180 - 00:21:41.120

electricity, gas, or anything. One of the neighbors brought over candles. Funny thing is, I mentioned it to

00:21:41.120 - 00:21:50.280

her a couple of months ago. She didn't remember it at all. To us, it was a godsend. Who was that?

00:21:50.280 - 00:22:05.240

It was Gorlitz. But she didn't remember that. And how old was your son then? He was five years old. We moved here so he could start kindergarten.

00:22:06.760 - 00:22:15.680

We lived in Virginia. Virginia didn't have public kindergartens. I think they do now, but then they

00:22:15.680 - 00:22:24.400

didn't. So we moved here for him to start kindergarten. And the house was supposed to have

00:22:24.400 - 00:22:41.780

been finished, we hoped, in time for him to start. But it wasn't finished until the end of October. So I used to drive him here every day so he could start in with a new group of children, you know, without having to enter two months

00:22:41.780 - 00:22:50.440

later as a stranger. So I used to drive him out here every day. I think there were only, I think

00:22:50.640 - 00:22:58.320

it was only four days a week. And that was over at Clara Barton? Yeah, Clara Barton. How many children were in the

00:22:58.320 - 00:23:06.240

class? I'm sorry, how many? How many children were in the class? Daddy [?] can give you all the information. He has the pictures.

00:23:06.340 - 00:23:16.760

Yeah. I don't know. Let's see, how many from Bannockburn? Of course, There were people from

00:23:16.760 - 00:23:24.000

Clara Barton. Of course, at that time it was only white. The blacks didn't weren't

00:23:24.000 - 00:23:33.200

integrated until the fifth grade. Where did they go to school, the ones that lived up there on Carter? It wasn't, they lived, oh Carter, yeah.

00:23:35.020 - 00:23:56.100

I think it was a school on River Road. A little school, I think, I'm not sure, I think it's the one near the railroad tracks, near the Freshfields. I used to hear River Road and then somehow or other I pictured it

00:23:56.100 - 00:24:03.340

being all the way up. But Danny mentioned that. He's been tracking down this. I don't think the building's there

00:24:03.340 - 00:24:08.660

anymore. But there's a church there that may have been the school. I don't know.

00:24:08.660 - 00:24:18.980

It was a one-room schoolhouse. And the principal, I think, I'm not sure, the principal of the school, I think, is the one who had become their teacher at Clara Barton.

00:24:19.600 - 00:24:43.940

He had a black teacher when they first had integration. Clara Barton was the first school, I just found it out, they were the first school that was integrated in Montgomery County. Montgomery County was the first area to become integrated in

00:24:43.940 - 00:24:56.560

Maryland. Integration really took time. As a matter of fact, that's what Danny's been finding out in his recollections of integration.

00:24:57.440 - 00:25:12.320

He knew when the year the law was passed that there had to be integration. And they took for granted that it was automatic. It started, but it didn't take effect until about a year later.

00:25:13.480 - 00:25:25.580

And even then, it was, Clara Barton was the first school to do it. Just like the Bannockburn School was picked as the first school to have a black principal.

00:25:28.420 - 00:25:45.600

They figured it was an area that would accept it more readily than a lot of other places. Now, when you moved here in '51, at what state was the co-op at that point?

00:25:46.620 - 00:26:05.940

You mean the development? Well, the sort of... When did the co-op itself sort of start to disintegrate? And they... The Apollo project was built.

00:26:07.360 - 00:26:29.680

The second project was built, rather the second block was—Solomon was the original builder on the pilot project with the Bannockburn plans. Solomon also built about four or

00:26:29.680 - 00:26:55.680

five houses on the next block. Houses on the next block. Then we got a different builder with the Bannockburn plan houses, but the builder made, built brick houses instead of the, what's that

00:26:55.680 - 00:27:02.360

wood they use? Redwood or something. Yeah, the redwood, yeah. Instead of redwood, he built it in brick.

00:27:02.360 - 00:27:10.220

But the inside plans were the Imbannockburn plans. As a matter of fact, I can tell you the plan number of each house.

00:27:10.740 - 00:27:16.080

Wow. This was a three. We watched it. We watched the thing being built.

00:27:16.100 - 00:27:33.080

I say when I used to drive Danny to school every day, I would come over here and watch the building come up. But we picked our plan number so

00:27:33.080 - 00:27:41.400

we know. How many plan numbers were there at that time? I know there was a, I don't know. Around five? I don't know.

00:27:43.040 - 00:27:51.620

Joe? Matter of fact, Joe may have more information than I. But we had that. I know there was a 10. This was 3. I know there was a 4

00:27:51.620 - 00:28:12.440

and a 5. And I think there was a 1. And then of course an A, a 3A or 4A, the A was with a basement. But you couldn't have a basement unless the land was sloped,

00:28:13.020 - 00:28:26.020

because the basements were all half basements. I don't know the number of plants. I'm sure I can get that information easily enough.

00:28:26.760 - 00:28:42.500

But at the same time this was being built, the Merrimacks were being built. They were started, I don't know whether just before or while this, they were built about the same time, and the people in the

00:28:42.500 - 00:28:54.560

Merrimacks moved in about the same time we did. Well, none of us moved in as a whole. The whole block didn't move in together. Each house, as each house was finished, the family moved in so

00:28:54.560 - 00:29:15.360

that we were moving in while they were moving into the Merrimacks. Would you call that when the co-op fell apart? I don't know. Well, were you co-op members?

00:29:16.720 - 00:29:33.660

We hadn't been before, but in order to buy the lot, we had to pay for a share of the – we had to buy a membership. We had to buy shares. And you had to, that was a

00:29:33.660 - 00:29:52.260

condition of, you had to in order to buy the lot. But somebody already had the shares to this lot. So we had to get it from him. So the shares, did they stay with

00:29:52.260 - 00:30:02.080

the lot? I'm sorry, did the shares stay with the lot? So did you buy the lot from them? We still have the shares. Two hundred and one shares or

00:30:02.080 - 00:30:15.980

something of the sort. So whom did you buy the lot from? From a person or from the co-op? From a person. Because a person had to buy the lot and then decide, for whatever

00:30:15.980 - 00:30:27.100

reason, not to move in, not to build, so that we had to buy it from him. The co-op couldn't sell it to us because it was already sold.

00:30:27.900 - 00:30:39.200

The whole block was sold. The lots were all sold. So that when we came, we had very little choice of what was left.

00:30:41.600 - 00:30:58.080

We didn't come in at the beginning. Well I understand that some of the lots, then, must have been bought from the original shareholders by

00:30:58.080 - 00:31:02.500

developers. Because it seems that some people. That was later. Was that a few years later?

00:31:02.500 - 00:31:14.940

No. Here they were. Well, though I wonder if the Merrimack houses, wasn't that land bought by developers and developed? The land was.

00:31:15.660 - 00:31:38.500

I don't know exactly how it was done. There they had to, I think they had to pick, I think they, whether they were drawn by lot, which lot they got, I'm not sure. But Some of the people there were original members of a co-op.

00:31:38.500 - 00:32:02.200

They were even members of a housing agency called before the co-op was formed. Chase and Pollack and Bellman were all members of the development before.

00:32:02.200 - 00:32:16.980

A lot of people, when the co-ops started, before they built the first block, I think they didn't know what the houses would cost. So people were afraid to buy. They figured they couldn't afford

00:32:16.980 - 00:32:24.020

it. They were afraid they wouldn't be able to afford it. So a lot of people didn't come in.

00:32:24.280 - 00:32:38.420

But a lot of them went into the Merrimack when they had a fixed price of what the house would be. But a lot of them are original members of the co-op and the housing agency.

00:32:39.000 - 00:33:02.680

I don't know what the housing... I can't remember exactly in here. I don't know if Grandma tells you, I'm sure. Yeah. Bannockburn Properties, Inc. I

00:33:02.680 - 00:33:07.860

think that's just it. I'll make a pot of coffee. Oh, sure. Coffee or decaf, whichever.

00:33:08.220 - 00:33:19.900

Whichever you have. I'll just... There's more coffee. A full cup.

00:33:22.060 - 00:33:29.440

Okay. There are a lot of people that still want to come. There's more coffee people.

00:33:29.880 - 00:34:01.850

Oh, this is perfect for now, thank you. I thought of Burma, well I shouldn't say they gravitate to big cities, to certain cities, because there are a lot of them in all kinds of weird little towns and all over the country.

00:34:01.850 - 00:34:15.140

Be careful of that cord. That's all right. Bannockburners get around. People have been walking through

00:34:15.140 - 00:34:24.960

the Eiffel Tower and need a bannock burner. And away you go. Because we used to know everybody in the community.

00:34:24.960 - 00:34:35.860

Now I don't know them anymore. Yeah, Madeline and Stan described when they were in Paris, you know, running into so many manicurists. I mean, the Reifmans were there at

00:34:35.860 - 00:34:42.780

the same... They sort of welcomed them there, and then there were just legions of them that seemed like they'd pass us through.

00:34:43.940 - 00:34:53.000

The Reifmans were living there when we were there, but we could get through... What was it we'd call them? The Paris telephones were terrible.

00:34:53.000 - 00:35:03.200

Whether they're any better now, I don't know. But this was 25 years ago. And we couldn't get through very easily.

00:35:03.220 - 00:35:10.220

We got some information from them, I remember. Did you live there or were you visiting? No, we were just visiting. They were living there.

00:35:10.960 - 00:35:25.740

So that's why we just spoke to them on the phone one day and that was about all. It's funny, when you were talking about I love everybody talks about when their house was being built,

00:35:26.100 - 00:35:35.080

about watching it. And one day I was home And there was a knock on the door, and the original owners of our house were in the neighborhood.

00:35:35.080 - 00:35:40.760

And they lived in San Diego. And this woman came in. I have to look up her name. I can't remember it right now.

00:35:40.760 - 00:35:53.240

And she came in and she said, "Well, we originally built this house, and I just wanted to go see my woods." I said, "OK." So she went back on the back deck and started looking at the woods,

00:35:53.440 - 00:36:04.120

six, five, two, oh, Howard. Oh. I don't remember her first name. And then she started talking about

00:36:04.120 - 00:36:12.540

building the house. And she said that there were sort of plans, but the builders were the architects, I mean, in large measure.

00:36:13.660 - 00:36:22.120

They had done it. And so the plans were kind of, they were a guideline. They weren't real specifics. And she told all sorts of stories

00:36:22.120 - 00:36:32.740

about they got the whole basement dug, and then they started putting something in. And they said, "Well, you know, somehow this basement is a story and a half instead of a story.

00:36:33.340 - 00:36:45.140

So do you want us to fill it in with concrete? Or do you want us to just add another six steps? Or what do you want us to do?" She told all these stories. Like, there was a place that sort of had a wall, and it said, you

00:36:45.140 - 00:36:50.540

know, window. But it wasn't clear where the window was supposed to go. And so she said, "Well, you know,

00:36:50.540 - 00:37:00.720

lady, the window here, where exactly do you want this window?" And she said it was a lot of fun. Well, we had very specific plans. Did you? But we were allowed to make

00:37:00.720 - 00:37:08.160

changes when we signed the contract. We were allowed to make changes. We had to pay for them. But they were very reasonable.

00:37:08.560 - 00:37:22.060

Hope we made the changes before we signed the contract. But the trouble is, one window in particular, I remember, as I say, I used to come out here every day

00:37:22.120 - 00:37:32.780

and I would watch each thing. The window was supposed to have been changed, but the man putting up the bricks was doing it according to all the others.

00:37:35.080 - 00:37:42.720

That s why they don t like making changes because the workman knows how to do it and he s doing it. Anyway, we caught him. He had to tear down a couple of

00:37:42.720 - 00:37:52.360

rows of bricks and change it. But all kinds of things were ridiculous. I don't know whether there was a

00:37:52.360 - 00:38:02.380

specific plan for the fuse box. He was putting on the floor right over there or on the back. I don't know.

00:38:02.380 - 00:38:13.100

Right on the floor. And my daughter was a year and a half old and was still crawling. No, she couldn't have been

00:38:13.100 - 00:38:22.640

crawling. Anyway, It was a dangerous place for a one and a half year old. So we got them to change that and

00:38:22.640 - 00:38:29.160

put it up higher. Oh, we moved in, my daughter was able to walk under this fireplace. We didn't have a screen there.

00:38:29.160 - 00:38:35.680

She used to walk under there. Well, that must have been a fun spot for her. This house was built with a

00:38:35.680 - 00:38:44.360

fireplace, was built first, before the rest of the house. We have pictures of the chimney standing. Yeah. Neat.

00:38:45.300 - 00:38:53.320

Well, so what was it that brought you all here? So you were in Virginia and one thing you were doing was looking for all day kinder. I mean looking for kindergarten.

00:38:53.560 - 00:38:57.860

Yeah. Well, we want--we were just looking for houses. We lived in an apartment.

00:38:57.860 - 00:39:07.900

We lived in Fairlington. It was apartment We had two children and we wanted to have We had only a two-bedroom apartment. We wanted We wanted three bedrooms.

00:39:08.220 - 00:39:19.110

Mm-hmm. So we started looking at houses, and I guess we heard about Bannockburn. Missed the Ralls, who were original Ralls.

00:39:20.730 - 00:39:32.060

I think it was R-A-L-L. I don't know how they spelled it. Doris and Udo Rall. Is it Ra-l-l?

00:39:33.940 - 00:39:52.240

They were part of the very active in the original housing planning. He lived in Fairlington. Oh, they lived there too? Yeah, they lived in Fairlington.

00:39:52.240 - 00:40:08.500

He had some meeting one time, telling about Bannockburn and whether that's why we built. Well, we moved here because we figured it was a group of liberal thinking people is why we moved here.

00:40:13.040 - 00:40:30.560

I guess also because There were a lot of Jews involved, and I didn't want to move to a community where there were no Jews. I didn't want to bring my children up with them. As far as I was concerned, it didn't have to be.

00:40:30.560 - 00:40:40.020

Everyone didn't have to be Jewish, but I didn't want to be the only one in the community. But mostly because it was a group of liberal Democrats, Roosevelt Democrats.

00:40:43.080 - 00:40:59.140

Now why was that so important? I mean I think if you ask people today, is it important if you're a Republican if you live in a Republican neighborhood or if you're a Democrat if you live in a Democratic neighborhood, I mean, that might be important, but I

00:40:59.140 - 00:41:10.220

don't know if that would make them, you know, really move and search out a place. Why was that so important then? If your philosophy is important to you, if those ideas are important

00:41:10.280 - 00:41:26.940

to you, then it's important to you. But if politics aren't interesting to you, if that sort of thing is, I mean you vote one way or another but it's not very important to you, then it wouldn't matter where you live.

00:41:35.140 - 00:41:56.060

I guess when you're with a group of people who think the same way you do, you can feel freer to say what you think. Otherwise, you have to be on guard all the time. But if you never express yourself in that way, it doesn't matter.

00:42:00.280 - 00:42:14.200

You know, Bannockburn, A mixed marriage in Bannockburn was a Republican and a Democrat. A mixed marriage at that time used to be two different religions.

00:42:15.480 - 00:42:29.560

Nowadays of course a mixed marriage is I don't know what. Probably two different races now, right? Yeah, it can be two different

00:42:29.560 - 00:42:34.300

races or two different sexes. Right. That just did. I mean, it could be any.

00:42:34.300 - 00:42:49.660

That's why I say it keeps changing. But that's why I said at that time, when someone said a mixed marriage, they meant two different religions. But you Bannockburners meant two different political parties.

00:42:50.140 - 00:42:56.300

A Republican and a Democrat. And you didn't have very many mixed marriages in this neighborhood, did you? Very few Republicans, no. Very few.

00:42:58.480 - 00:43:15.360

As I say, it was mostly, A lot of the people here came down, the beginning, came down during the Roosevelt administration, and they were liberal Democrats. Came from big cities, New York,

00:43:15.360 - 00:43:24.300

Boston, Chicago. Where did you all come from? New York. Manhattan?

00:43:24.480 - 00:43:35.280

We met down here, though. No, I lived in Brooklyn. Jill lived all over New York City. But we met down here.

00:43:35.280 - 00:43:52.220

We didn't know each other in New York. So you came down separately? Yes. I came down one month after Pearl Harbor. Joe was here a couple of years before.

00:43:53.560 - 00:44:04.860

Most of us came down because of the war, I guess. That's where you got your jobs. It was right after the Depression, and the government had jobs.

00:44:04.860 - 00:44:16.960

And the government had jobs. And did you come and work with the government then? Yes. Where were you working?

00:44:16.960 - 00:44:30.040

I worked at the Army Air Force. It was the War Department, by the time the Army Air Force was... And how long did you stay working

00:44:30.040 - 00:44:44.240

with him? It was about four years until Danny was born. Did you ever go back to work then after that, to paid work? I know you did a lot of other

00:44:44.240 - 00:44:53.140

work. Yeah, I did go back to the government for a few months afterwards. I worked at American University for about seven years.

00:44:56.860 - 00:45:05.540

What were you doing at AU? I worked as a secretary in the chemistry department. Then I used to be able to drive down to work.

00:45:05.540 - 00:45:14.180

I don't think there was one light on the way to work. I bet. They just put a new one in on Mass Ave. Yet another light.

00:45:15.480 - 00:45:28.240

There's the one right at Spring Valley, and now they put one, the block before that, where those new houses were. Remember where they closed that whole subdivision, where they found the nerve gas or something like that, buried from 1950s?

00:45:29.180 - 00:45:34.480

After the war, they had all this left over. Well, let's just dump it somewhere. So they buried it there. And when they were building these

00:45:34.480 - 00:45:42.180

houses and had those people moved in already, they found it. I haven't been reading about it. Well, they've put a new light there now.

00:45:42.180 - 00:45:54.860

So there's yet one more. And where was Joe working? Joe worked, started with the Navy Department. And then he switched to the

00:45:54.860 - 00:46:06.080

headquarters of the Navy. And then he's worked for NASA for a long time. So you all were more military

00:46:06.080 - 00:46:14.100

people. It seems like a lot of others were in economics and labor. Yeah, a lot of economists and

00:46:14.220 - 00:46:26.440

lawyers worked for the Labor Department. Joe was an engineer. There were several other engineers in Bannockburn.

00:46:28.700 - 00:46:44.320

Single Terry, well Single Terry is down in, well not in Florida anymore, they're in, they just moved to, I think Washington State or Oregon, I don't know, somewhere out in that part of the world.

00:46:46.640 - 00:47:02.560

So you came down here, so you're coming down here post-Depression, beginning of the war, basically people are coming down here in search of jobs. And so you find jobs And it seems like most of the people were

00:47:02.560 - 00:47:15.040

living in apartments, kind of close to the city. During the war, you couldn't get a place to live. You had to... There were all kinds of stories.

00:47:15.220 - 00:47:27.600

Sometimes you had to buy an apartment. Sometimes you had to buy the furniture from someone. Someone would let you have, he was leaving, but he would let you have his apartment, but you had to buy his furniture.

00:47:30.600 - 00:47:47.280

There are all kinds of crazy ways to... Well, we... Joe and I each had a... I was living with a group of three other girls at that time.

00:47:47.840 - 00:47:56.160

We shared an apartment. One of the girls, one of the women had the apartment.