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Hello. So today is September 23rd, 2019. This is an interview with councilmember Brianne. I Do by CR Solomon of the meridian Hill, Malcolm X parkour history, projects recorded at John, a Wilson building in Washington DC. And I want to thank you for taking the time to interview with me today. And I just want to confirm that I have permission to record you for this interview. Yes you do. And can you give just a brief introduction of Who you are sure a Briana do. I'm the word. One council member. I represent the area of the District of Columbia that includes Meridian Hill milk mix Park. And when I was elected as an advisory neighborhood, commissioner I also represented the area that includes Meridian Hill, Malcolm X Park and for many years lived next to it. So below it and then also across from it into different buildings. Scarlett, when did you first move? Like when did you move into the area? I moved to the District of Columbia 17 years ago which would have been July of 2002, June, June or July. It doesn't matter.

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Yeah, that's them in. So this was your first residence near the park. So I moved blow Meridian Hill Park in that yellow building. That really is like right at the bottom. If the water kept flowing it, It flow into that building. I moved there in 2003. Yeah. November of 03. Can you kind of describe like your first memory of the park? Sure. Well, actually, I first visited the park when I was in high school around 1997 or 98. And I didn't remember that until recently, when I was looking through a photo album, I had, I can tell you more about why I was looking through the album, but when I was in high school, I came to Washington DC and it was the close-up. That I came with from Michigan where I grew up and we were doing a unit on protests and we were visiting places in the District of Columbia, where people had gathered in protest over the years and Meridian Hill Malcolm X was one of those places where people have protested over time. And so, we stopped there as part of that teaching moment. And I have a picture sitting at the base of the fountain there from when I was in high school. Yeah, I had totally forgotten that until very recently. When I moved to the U Street area in 2003, I just that Park was really a part of my whole story. I mean, it was a place where we would picnic, we would nap, we would read, we would sled, you know, and I'm a water person. So I grew up near the great lakes and so I'm always drawn to water and to have the largest the longest cascading fountain in North America in. Your backyard is pretty freaking cool. So that was how I Became reacquainted with it after

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high school. So would you say that the appearance of the park was a similar like from your memory in high school? To when you moved here? Yes. And I have photographic evidence to back it up, but it was and, you know, it's interesting because it is a park in the heart of a residential area of the District of Columbia, that is a national park and the National Park Service, Doesn't really have the same understood. It doesn't have a very good track record with maintaining Urban Parks course, the National Park Service, it maintains all these, like all this acreage across the country that's, you know, practically Wilderness or it's, you know, it's more spread out and doesn't have as much of the same kind of daily foot traffic or it has, of course, tourists. But our parks are circles or squares, Rock Creek Meridian Hill. They don't get The same attention from the National Park Service that some of those you know that like a Yosemite does and yet we don't have control over them as the locality so it's always interesting. So not much has changed. Although when I moved to the neighborhood and started working on the neighborhood association and eventually became the neighborhood. Commissioner for the area, we definitely pushed. In fact, we introduced a resolution on a and c 1 B where I was elected to take local. All of that Park that was probably 10 years ago, maybe more clearly. It didn't go anywhere because we still don't have control of that Park, but it's an ongoing thing even as councilmember. Now, we certainly have people writing to us who are upset that it's not being maintained at the level, they like to. And it's because the Park Service just doesn't have the money to do it. They don't have staff in money to take care of it. The way we would want it to be taken care of. So our residents, mainly calling to have more ownership of the park other than No, I think the residents don't necessarily make the connection that we don't own it. I think they just want it fixed. Yeah, and we do too, right. So, for example, whenever the fountain isn't working properly, people are upset me to write when the trash isn't being picked up. Or when there's crime or all the things that we would take care of if it were our own Park, people complain about those things and over the years we've done. Number of different things. At one point, the community raised money to replace Joan of arc's Sword, which is constantly being stolen feathers, and yeah, right. So, but it's like this beautiful statue that sculpture statue, that was given to us by France, I believe the women of France and this to sword keeps getting stolen and I don't know why they don't solder it in so that it can't be removed. I don't know why it has to be A Separate Peace in perpetuity, but I do remember. The community has like, more than once were. Worked to replace the sword.

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Yeah. So what do you think brings, you know, in spite of all that what brings people together to the public, gets people consistently still going to the space that still kind of needs you know repair here and there what draws them in people crave Green Space and Gathering space in cities. So any open space, in a city is going to be a place that people are drawn to. And this space is really special because it's tree-lined. It's got that. Of Mall, you know, the green grass. It's got a beautiful Fountain, lots of sitting areas and people exercise their people play sports. They're at my daughter's daycare goes there every Friday for a picnic. You know, everybody uses it. It's been as I mentioned a place where people Gather in protest or demonstration obviously there's a lot of culture and music that happens there with the drummer's. The drummer's have been a fixture for decades. He's so I just I think the the nature of it being a large green space. Nestled in a residential setting makes it very attractive to people and has has allowed for that type of access and Gathering. So you mentioned like, the drum circle of, it was an interesting other few interesting questions that we got yesterday at the exhibit, were some people were concerned that the drum circle was being removed and that was my first time hearing that before and I wasn't sure if you knew It's is there a type of monitoring system for who actually can you know who can be in the park and how they can use it? And are there sometimes complaints that inhibit people from coming back? There are certain activities that require a permit. Okay there are a lot of activities that do not the drum circle does require a permit but they've been renewing that regularly with the National Park Service and you know in the past when They've had trouble. They've contacted me as commissioner and they certainly haven't contacted me this time. If there is a problem, I'd be happy to help with it but I'm I've been not may not been made aware that they're being asked to and their their time is fixtures of the community. There's complaints in cities have had all kinds of things from time to time. I get complaints from people who live on the perimeter of the park, about the the noise. And one of the things that the Park service has negotiated with the drum circle over the years is just the end time, being a specific time and that that be the agreement, it doesn't creep out from the end of time. I think it's 9:00 it could be 8:00 at night, but they've had a really deep discussion about that over the years and what makes sense for, what the drummers are trying to achieve and what makes sense for the balance and the community. But yeah, you know, I think it's It's a constant struggle in a city for people to understand like, naturally, what's going to happen near their home because they're in a city, yeah? Right. So you're going to hear the bus all night long, you're going to hear music from cars driving by, you're going to hear sounds coming out of a gathering space like a park or a community center, right? And so what I try to do, Do is help educate newcomers about the history of the institutions that they are going to be experiencing as residents and that's not always easy. It's really critically important in a space that has gentrified. So rapidly that we talk about the history of a space that has meant so much to different types of people who've lived there, right? There's a history of encampments after the Civil War of Soldiers that were wiped out to build some of the housing in the park there, right? There's a lot of history and I try to try to encourage people when they're new to learn about the place that they're living in. And what came before they were here and not to only imagine your community as it is the day you got there, right? It's a tough conversation, for a lot of people, you know, they spent this much money on their house and so they should have things the way they want them to be. But that's not how it works. In a T not just cities, right? It's tough though, right? And so especially for me because I'm a white woman with privilege and have had a life of privilege to represent the diverse community that I do. I have to lead on those conversations and I'm obligated to lead on those conversations in a way that not everybody is. And so for me, that's very important and this park and a lot of ways symbolizes. It's almost it almost brings together all of those issues.

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Use, or when you think of the history of it, you know, you've got all these wealthy mansions that were built around, what used to be a black encampment, right? Where people were pushed out after, you know, with Senator McMillan's plan to beautify the city. And at that time, beautifying the city often meant relegating African Americans who were very poor into even further corners of the city. So this was true then and we live with it now.

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So, yeah. So when You have these these conversations which I am sure oftentimes can be difficult with so many different, you know, transient people coming from different places and different walks of life. Do you what helps you? I guess with these conversations, especially when it comes to people who see the park differently. So the name for is a great Meridian, hell Malcolm X, right? I always say both, right right. Try to Ball. Yeah, so did you always use both or did it kind of like you started to use it and dual War? So when you got into the position that you're in now, interesting question. So I think I mostly called it Meridian Hill for a long time because that's the official National Park Service name and I'm very much a Girl Scout in the sense that I use the official follow the rules kind of approach, right? But then I realized, you know, I educated myself a little bit more and I realized the significance of the name Malcolm X to the community and renaming the park after him. And I realized that that was a way that other people identified the park. So I started using both and I haven't been in a space where anybody's been angry about it being called Meridian Hill, so I don't know that. That is a thing, it may be it may be, you know, from your interviews, maybe you've heard it but I try to do it just out of respect of how long the history is, you know, in the space and how different people I with it. Sometimes I forget and I use one or the other but mostly do

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both. Yeah, so even with the flag from the name, just how the park is used like the activity in the Park. Are there any clashes with that like house? Um, for example, my used Park as a place of protest where others on the same day, might want to use it for recreation. Sure, you might have a don't mute. D.c. at the same time? Someone is going to have a go yoga class, right? Same part. Yeah, you know what nobody has ever raised an issue with me. I think that most of the people who use the park Get that it's constantly being used by everyone. And I found most washingtonians are sort of fascinated by demonstrations and protests. And so are kind of intrigued by whatever's going on near them. You know, there's always the the issue with dog waste would make sure that makes it harder to use for other things because of sanitary reasons. But people tend to be there tend to be like times of day that that's taking place because, you know, people are walking their dogs, early morning, right there in one area. So it's it's a balance, there's a lot of back and forth. I used to walk the park and run the park a lot in the early. Morning and sort of see that activity. And then, before that, in life, I was more of a kind of a weekend user and, you know, the picnicking and the drum circle. So, I've sort of seen it in a lot of different iterations. Now, I sort of cut through what I'm walking places, just to check on it. Okay, what's the latest? I think the thing that gets people, the most upset is whenever any part of the grass is fenced off, and that's usually when they're receding and they don't want people to step on it. While the grass is Growing but people get frustrated because they want to use it, which is a good thing. Yeah. That and when the fountains not working, that's when people get upset. So it's a really really old park. And it wasn't till about ten years ago, that congresswoman Norton was able to get funding in the budget to replace the plumbing, okay? And it was so it was done so differently at the time, there wasn't even an access point to the plumbing, they had to excavate to get to the plumbing so that they could replace the plumbing and then they built this other. Bathhouse, for lack of a better. Word bathrooms up, top used to be that the bathrooms were on the lower level. They've closed those up and they opened up this one on the top level. That was supposed to also have police rotating through in the a little office there. And I think they're they're sometimes, I mean, usually police are sort of on their feet more than they're sitting in one place. So that's sort of underutilized, but that's okay. And then there have been some proposals over the years and perhaps you've spoken. In with Steve Coleman at Washington parks and people, he can tell you about the whole he calls it. The pageantry that was originally envisioned for the park. And if you really built all the things that were supposed to be there, we its Historic Landmark. Which means there are a lot of things you can't do to improve in. You have to replace the benches with the same material, you have to replace the concrete, you know, the walls being that aggregate concrete when they had to fix it. They to there was no formula on, you know, written down anywhere. They had to figure out how to replicate it because its historic so that's fascinating to. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure that's when it comes to relating that to people because, you know, everyone wants to space to be clean and does, do does a community, sometimes take that upon themselves like, put her own hands to yes, of course, there were neighborhood, cleanups watching parks and people usually help the superintendent do that actually. When I was on the ANC, I trained a bunch of citizens to remove graffiti. So we had a little graffiti Squad didn't really end up ever be being activated because there wasn't as much as they're sort of had died down a little bit, but we learned how to use the chemicals to get it off walls and things. And I had a little Yahoo group that you could send an email out to be like, there's some over here who's free to go, remove it, it was great. Like I said we didn't have having to do it very much but it was something that the community had said oh will volunteer to learn how to do this which is pretty cool. And the I think they still do regular cleanups. I haven't been invited to one in a while but they I used to do them pretty regularly and that's true of a lot of our Parks actually, but this one is so much bigger. Yeah, but it takes a little more organization.

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So you mentioned the police. So when they are monitoring the park, is there any any conflict with the actual residents or do these? Are they happy to see the police presence or There isn't much of a police presence there. The National Park Police. Is that monitor Meridian Hill. Also monitor Rock Creek Park because Meridian Hill Malcolm X is part of Rock Creek system. And so they're spread really thin. So they're not we don't see them that often, I mean I know that they Patrol it but you don't really see them that often. MPD police can go in there if they have a reason to I once saw Chase go through that Park. I was on a ride-along and cop hopped out of the car at 15th and ran into the park and chased after somebody. And you know, they are perfectly allowed to do that. I would say that in this day and age, there are a lot of people who would prefer there not to be so many police present, you know, we still have a lot of issues in this city with use of force. And stop and frisk, especially toward the African American male community. And, you know, even people who aren't impacted by that. You know, white people, for example, they're more mindful of it, not everybody agrees with me on that. But, you know, yeah, I didn't read the full article but I saw some news recently about some arrests that were made there. Yeah, I was wondering because when I went to the park, I didn't really see a lot of presents, and so the evening, right,

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but I'm just curious as to are those The community's response, I guess. And any constituents responses that you get based off of that? Especially I think it was. Yeah, last month. Yeah. I was, they did sort of a bus. They did a book, the whole bunch of namely African-American males. They're saying that they were there for cruising and think. Yeah, that's been the reputation of that park for a long time and I think it sort of Ebbs and flows. Okay? But that that type of activity is happening after hours and I My sense is that

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people who are not engaged in that aren't going to the park after dark, right? Like in general, these parks are closed after dark, right? You're not supposed to be there for safety reasons, right? And for public upkeep, and whatever else, right? Because we know the police are going to be there all the time and that after dark is a more opportune time to Graffiti and vandalize and things like that. So the reputation has always been that there is sex and drugs going on after dark and, you know, I think Obviously that's not ideal right from a community standpoint. There hasn't been a lot of violent crime and that I think is something that is of more greater concern to the community writ, large than sort of. Sex or sex work or drugs? Yeah, I'm sure people there's some people who disagree with me but that's my sense of it. So, do you see I guess? The use of the park or since there's so many changes happening to the demographic of the park. Do you see in five years that kind of changing a bit like how the park is being used because the demographic is changing so rapidly. I think most of the change has already happened, okay? Really. I mean I don't think you would have seen yoga in there 20 years ago, right? But well maybe you would because you've got those organizations right? On the park that do some yoga but you know what I mean, right? I mean for yoga as a proxy of gentrification which may or may not be fair, but let's use it as a proxy. A lot of that change has already happened, I would say that when I first moved to the District of Columbia and 2002, you Street was still a pretty dicey area. It has not been like that for at least 10, maybe 15

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years now. Okay, and A lot of new people have moved in. You've had a couple buildings go up. We've been on the sort of the residential streets that feed into 16th and 15th and most of that change has already occurred. so, what is special about a place like this park and other Gathering spaces of even a fraction of its size is that well let's just talk about this, this park is that people still do feel comfortable coming back to it, even if they don't live around it anymore, perhaps not everybody who was coming, ever lived around it, but You see that in a lot of parts of the city in Ward 1. Let's use that as an example. Some of the complaints that we get are about loitering, okay? So you have people hanging outside which is not against the law, okay? And not really a problem in most cases, And why are they hanging out on a particular Block? It's because they used to live there. So where they used to hang out? Yeah. Right. And it's the space. They feel comfortable and even though they don't live there anymore. So the people have moved in don't really understand. Well why are these people hanging out? Like I don't know them. They don't live here right? Could be a conversations generally not a conversation. It's usually just sort of a assertion or an accusation. They don't want those people hanging on the Block anymore so that's why public spaces are. So Important. Because They are even though legally loitering on a place used to live is legal. It's much less socially acceptable than hanging out in a park and that's why these public spaces are so important. That's why the names of these public spaces are so important, right? People identifying with Malcolm X as opposed to Meridian Hill that can make the difference between whether someone feels welcome or not. So I think, you know, the different uses of the park, you know. We're different uses might be a deterrent to some people from coming back or hanging out, but I think it's a big enough park with enough uses that it's still reasonably. Welcome to people who've been here a long time or used to be here. So that's my my take, we'll see, you know, we'll see as time goes on if it still feels that way. But I think most of the actual residential Democratic change in this area has already taken

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place. Okay. So do you see that the do you see the push for the name change Waltz for to be officially called Malcolm X Park? Do you think that that has kind of died down and it's just kind of more of a local thing or do you see in the future that it's still going to keep that same momentum of local residents, wanting to make it official? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I haven't heard it in a while, but maybe it's just because it's not me who needs to change it, right? It's the Congress. So, it could be Be that I'm just not on the lobbying list. But it's definitely something I'm open to but I have a lot of conversations with my team about how do we name public spaces in a way that recognizes historic figures, who are people of color and women? Because we have so many institutions spaces streets named after a white men kind of doing inventory in Ward 1. Right now of street names, I'm looking at I'm reading Chocolate City right now which is so long. So heavy and I'm every time one of these, segregationist leaders pops up. And like, oh, there's totally a street named after that guy. Like, we need to change that. Right? Because you look at a street name from hundreds of years ago, or even a hundred years ago and nobody remembers the person. It was named for, but if you can rename it for a person, that means something to the community than, that's a big deal. We I just named Anthony Bowen way on O'Neill naming on the 1300 block of W Street, which is not so far from the park and that was acknowledging. The work that he did in our community. It means so much incredible work at the national and local level. The YMCA is named for him. So we renamed the block on their fifth anniversary of the renovation. The try to name, we do more, Ali namings than anything else in my office because people need to name an alley when they're building on it because they need to Have an official address for EMS etcetera. And so, when someone comes to us and says, we'd like to name an ally, we say, okay, well here's the criteria of what we would approve for an alley naming right. You know and one time someone came to us and we kind of did our own research on the name they suggested. This is when we started having our own criteria and it was a you know, as a well-known family, but they were slaveholders and I was like that's not what I want to name this finale after the These days, right? Like, we're beyond that, we know better now, right? Might have been it might have been acceptable to have slaves been but like, let's move on. So I do think things are important, you know. And so I mean I would support a name change even if it's just, you know, You know, the both names history is important to a lot of people. History is not my number one priority in terms of Pres like, historic preservation is not my number one priority when I have other things going on like building affordable housing. So when those two are in Conflict, affordable housing is always going to win moralizing a name because that's what it always was. Is less important to me than a name. That is valuable in present-day and helping people feel like it's their space and their history. So, we'll see what happens. It's not going to be our choice. I don't think this Congress is the one. But we have the house. I don't know if the Senate has to vote on the changing changing the name of a a park. Good question. So it's awesome. That office is renaming. A lot of treats both offer for, you know, local innovators and activists and people who've done a lot of great things. And in Washington, d.c. something that has come up in. Our research, were people who were pushing saying, well, why I keep my Uncle Max Park, why don't we name it after someone who Who was actually from the area. That's a fair point and I hear that you have. No, no, I do hear it. Like, I hear it now that you're saying,

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you know, just want to get your, your thoughts on that. Do you see the significance of Malcolm X? In current times in the park in the neighborhood? Or can you see? You know, I hire a more influential person taking on that name. Mmmmm, I see the significance of Malcolm X to people who use the park and live in community. Maybe not the current wave of people that live in the perimeter of the park, but I know that he is still a very important figure to a lot of constituents and work one. And is really just a symbol in a lot of ways, a symbol of black power rising up against oppression, which is still an issue today, right? I didn't agree with everything the Malcolm X ever said, but his vision and his reason for being still exist today, right? So, It's so if we're going to rename it I think it opens up to the conversation of who else might be a good name. But there is a reason that people call it knock my spark now and that's because that's the name they claimed for it. So you know, but I'm you know, going to have to make my own list of names as we continue to rename things in Ward 1, so we can certainly come back to you when we've got a longer list of options and do you see? The park influencing the surrounding communities as well, like Adams Morgan especially as your renaming, you know, do you see kind of the park helping out at all with those initiatives? I'm sorry. So as you're as you're helping with the other communities like as more yeah. Do you see the influence of the park in those communities? Mmm, not so much. Okay.

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So, A lot of the work we do is hyper local people, very much associate with their own neighborhood in their own parks. Or their own schools. I mean, one of the things that you see in the district when when we were closing schools, that 10 years ago, A little longer people were very passionate about the neighbor, the neighborhood school, and the history that had held. You know, we had a separate, but equal school system and the District of Columbia So when schools were combined, they would have both names. There's a school in my ward Called Bruce Monroe at Parkview. Okay? There was a Bruce school, there was a Monroe School, they became the Bruce Monroe School. That school got shut down and relocated over to the Park View School. And so now you have a Bruce Monroe at Parkview. Yeah, as opposed to just this is the Park View school, and the first Monroe kids are a part of it. Now, I mean, it's a lot, right? People are very attached to that history and sometimes that's okay. Sometimes it holds us back. And it's a balance, but I think people are more focused on what's they can walk to, okay? In Ward one in particular because it's such a small walkable community and people will go over to Meridian Hill Park for certain things like the drum circle, or a protest, or a party, or a concert or whatever. But it might not be the place they go every day if they don't live near it, that makes sense. Yeah. Well, as we are Nearing the end of the interview. I wanted to ask you, if there was anything that you felt that I should have touched on a little bit more that you wanted to elaborate on. No, I think we got

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everything. Just trying to think anything I left out from the A and C or as we did that resolution. I used to do an Like office hours day in the park, kind of thing when I was on the, A and C and we would have yoga and we'd have like a dog show contest and exercise, let's see. I've done a lot of exercising in that Park. I had a trainer, I used to work with their did a lot of running their I told you that I don't run anymore so there's that but it's always been a really special place. I did an interview Some sort of women in power interview for a magazine that still hasn't come out. And they asked each of us to pick a place that meant something to us, and they're in our district and I picked the park as my place because it was, you know, I represented it when I was first an agency. I lived behind it, a lift across from it. Now my daughter goes there with daycare, I did that whole interview and they said, send us some pictures of you in the park and I'm going through and I realized that was when I found the photo from high school heh, Even remembered, you know that my first interaction with the park was high school. I mean, it's even a place that people from Michigan come to right. And so my connection to the park has been both personal and professional in and out, and in and out. And so it's always been a place that's important to me and I want it to be its best self, right? I want it to have the investment that it deserves from the federal government, or even from the local government and I want it to be a place that's welcoming to everyone, but I want that found to be All the time. And I want that chessboard to be repaired and even and I don't really care about the monument to Buchanan because he was a terrible president. But we are we have a presidential monument in there but you know, I wanted to always be its best and I don't know if it'll ever be the the pageantry that Steve Coleman wants it to be, but I do know that it's going to continue to be a special place for us for a long time. There's my building that I lived in it, 2112 new, Sure. Went up during the Johnson era. And until then nobody had been allowed to build to block the view of the park. And so somehow that got through, because he didn't care or whatever his administration didn't care. And That Was, Then when the Roosevelt like a few years later, the Roosevelt was like, okay, not even a few years later, maybe like decades later, Roosevelt finally was like, well, that one's blocking the view, we might as well go up, two more floors. And so now, you don't have sort of the Views that you used to have but I mean, it's still pretty good when you can see the fireworks and you can see a lot of things. So that's pretty cool. That it, you know, that it had that. That preservation for a while but you know you I'd rather have the housing than of you any day in this city. So but no, I thank you for for doing this project. Thank you for taking the time to meet with me and you and these are some really amazing memories that you've shared. Thanks if you have any questions and follow-up, shoot me an e-mail, let me know. Cool,

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thank you. Thanks.