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Good evening. My name is. Sheila White. I'm here doing an interview with... Chris Sellman With Chris Sellman. Is it okay I do this interview with you? Yep.

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We're doing the interview on homelessness and how it affects people. So Chris. Can you tell me your full name? Christopher William Gleason Sellman? And where are you from? Originally, Minnesota.

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How long you been in DC? Uh, About a month this time, but I've been in D.C. before. All right. How long have you been homeless? Uh, a month this time and about four years constantly before.

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And where have you been living in DC? Since I've been back here, I was, I went to the shelter the first night. I decided I would never go to another shelter in DC. Here, they're all turning out to be pretty bad. Um, and then as I bought my tent and I had set up in front of Street Sense here for a couple days and then I moved it over to the park. So what its like, moving around like that? How was it? Like, not bad, not really bad. Um, I set up over in the park about a month ago, and I've been over there the whole time and people have been leaving me alone. And I basically I stay to myself, so.

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So you didn't grow up in DC? No. So, you know, so how how did the neighborhood changed since you've been in DC? The buildings are a lot taller and almost as, there seems to be more homeless but there...because the shelter's tend to be full every night or hard to get into and all that stuff. So yeah and then the campers and I've noticed there's at least a dozen places around DC. that I've seen that have campers.

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So, how do you think about the developers? How they impacting homeless people? I really haven't seen that much of the developers right now. I mean, how do you think the developments who are building homes? How do you think they impact homeless people? Hopefully they do good, but I really haven't done much with those people. So.

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So in what way is the government Social Services change in these service to impact homeless, do they impact it for the better or for the worse? For the most part i'd say they do for the better, but they don't get everyone. So they people fall through the, through the holes. And there and the thing is with like..with welfare. A person, my age and race and sex. I can hardly ever get welfare. How old are you? I'm going to be 50 in August,

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50 in August? Yeah. Oh, okay, So it's like, I'm not, I'm not of the older generation so I can't get it for that. I'm not disabled, so I can't get it for that. I'm basically, I'm a... working aged white American and it's really hard to get social welfare. I mean, you have to jump through a hoop after hoop after hoop after hoop just to get basic welfare. So.

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So does uh, welfare benefit impact homeless people in any way and if they do, what way do you thinking about homeless people? Um, well, like, I know I could probably get food stamps in DC here and i'd get like $203 a month for food stamps. So that would add to my comfortable living a little bit. But other than that, not really much, maybe medical. But I don't even when I have medical, I don't go to the doctor unless I have to, so. Okay. So how about the employment service? I'm employed to Street Sense. And that's that's the main reason I came back to DC was to work through Street Sense again, so.

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So how would you describe the state of homelessness shelters in the city? And what impacts do they have on homelessness? Uh, from what I've seen of the shelter's now, they're really overcrowded. They're...Like the one I went to, there was four showers on the second floor for the people that were sleeping on that floor. Three of them didn't work in the fourth one had a guy in there washing his clothes in the shower. Can you tell me what shelter? Up on uh...New York.

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New York Avenue? Mhm, The one up north Northeast here. So in the shelter, they help...do you...do they help you with trying to find jobs or anything? No, not at the shelters. At least not that I saw, but yeah.

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Do you know about any other housing programs? Not in DC here, but I'm, I'm sure if I looked into a little bit more, I probably could find them. But right now, I'm, I'm happy being in a tent. How long you been living in a tent? A month.

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And so you happy being in a tent? Yeah. I'm happy being...I'm in the...I'm in the public, I'm in the park. So basically at night...yes, I might maybe in the middle of town but within my tent, that's my private space. And so I have an air mattress in there and I have a little rug I set up in there. My bedding is all in there. So it's all set up. You ever think about getting housing again? Um, maybe this winter, if I go to like Texas, that's why I'm trying to get ahold of my one friend. [Coughs] Sorry, I'm planning on getting housing. If I can't get ahold of her or I'm not friends with her for whatever reason anymore, then I'll go to California and I'll set up my tent in California.

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You know, anything about policymaking on homelessness? Not really. So that means...do you...does homelessness impact the policy making decisions? Um, you know, I don't know. There's...there's times where it seems like it maybe effects a little bit, but then they say one thing and do another.

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Has police brutality had an impact on homelessness? Not that I can really tell but then I am, like I said, I'm mainly a guy that stays to himself. Um, I'm the type of person that you can drop me in the middle of any big city and with my wall, my pocket and clothes on my back and by the end of the day, more than likely, I will have a place to lay my head, more than likely have food in my stomach, and I may even have money in my pocket. So. Has the War on Drugs, in your opinion, had an impact on homelessness? No, not really.

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No impact on homelessness? Yeah, Has the criminalization of poverty or homelessness has, has been a big issue? You know, in the past few years, homeless has gotten more and more prevalent, so I don't think it's really...Basically everywhere is getting to the point where there's a lot of homeless people out on the street. So there's homeless people basically everywhere in the country.

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So you don't think War on Drugs or criminalization of poverty has an impact on the homeless? No Not at all? Why do you think that? Just because, I mean, the police are basically. Yeah, they may see you, but if you're not doing anything wrong, they don't mess with you. So, I mean. [laughs]

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So what impact do prisons have a homelessness? Um, well, I know there's a lot of people in prison that are...they're homeless. So they'll maybe steal something and get caught stealing or something like that. But if you're abidding by laws for the most part, like I know, like the park, there's supposed to be no camping. I'm a camper there. But there's, there's quite a few, campers there. Plus they put out the one outhouse down there. So I mean, DC has basically said, okay, we have homeless, we know there's people out camping, if we put them, if we put them here and here and here and put the outhouses here. It's basically saying they're okay to camp there, but try to keep it clean and stuff like that. So, I mean, there is like, Downtown, the company called Downtown. They're out there every Saturday and Sunday feeding people there. They walk through the park cleaning the park up and stuff like that. So it's, it's, it's I see them trying to help but they basically help DC keep it, everything neat instead of actually helping the homeless. Have you ever been across incarcerated? What?

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Have you ever been incarcerated? Uh, 20-plus years ago for like 20 days. That was it. That's and that's...I have no felonies. I have no, none of that stuff. So I'm a good clean American. It's just...I'm homeless. And what ways does homeless impact people's health? How does it impact your health being homeless? Actually, since I became homeless again, my health has improved. My health is actually improved because I'm moving around more. I'm more fit. I actually feel younger than I have in quite a few years. So for me, the homeless is actually been relatively beneficial for me.

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So how would you describe the state of healthcare services available to unhoused? Um...Well, I've seen the medical truck over at, like the park. I'd say every Wednesday night they, the medical truck parks there for a good half an hour to an hour or so and talks to people. So I mean, they're trying to do medical for people that need medical. So what impacts exist in mental health and substance abuse programs for homeless in the region? Has it, has the homelessness got worse or has it gotten better for the awareness of drugs? Um, You know, I really don't know. I don't know if it's gotten worse or better just because for 12 years, I wasn't homeless. I was homeless for four years, then I wasn't homeless for 12 years and now I'm homeless again. So I'm just coming back to it now.

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So does it affect your mental health? Being homeless? No, No. Do you have any substance abuse that it affects you while you're being homeless? Nope.

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Do you think access to education or the quality of education has an impact on homelessness? I'm not sure. I really haven't done much with that, so. How long did you go to school? I'm a senior, I graduated. I graduated high school. Plus, I have, three credit hours in college, plus my military adds up credits, college credits. Plus. I've been a certified nursing assistant in the past and I had my CDL in the the past.

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So you a veteran? And I'm a veteran. Yeah. And you homeless? Yep.

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So, how do you feel about veterans being homeless? Uh, There's a few... they've actually, uh, actually, they've actually started helping the veterans more in DC or well in the country because I mean, when me and my wife were homeless for six months, I actually got help through the, through a veteran's place and got into apartment. And then, she basically said, well I'm going to leave you and I just said screw it. I'm gone. And so I had, I'd gotten a um, uh...basically a voucher for rent that they were going to pay our rent each month. For a third of our income. Well, the only one that was getting any income between me and my wife was my wife because she got SSI. I was a payee. I basically ran all the errands for her. She barely had to leave the house yet, she took her payee away from me. She got me kicked out of her parents van and that was only other van I went into. On the other vehicle, I went into besides maybe the bus and so I mean, she's basically cutting me off from everybody in my... in the outside world and she cut me out financially, as far as their payee and all the stuff. So I just said screw it and left. So, did domestic violence or sexual abuse have any impact on people becoming homeless? I personally don't know because I haven't been in that situation.

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Does violence on the street affect people being homeless? Um, there's a few people that I think they act crazier than they are. You know I'm saying, right? Whereas they'll go around and they'll, they'll just say stuff while they're out in the streets, but then I'll see them when there's not very many people around and they act normal. So I think people act out more when they're homeless, but that's just what I'm seeing. If any that you are aware of, do you think any crime groups or strategies people are engaged in and to try to end homelessness? Do you know any such people that are trying to end homelessness, any group? No, not really. It's, it's, there's, there's a bunch of groups, but they're like, they'll take this part of the group, or they'll take this part of the group, or those take this part of the group, but it's usually a group that will take a part of the group. But like myself, I don't fall into any of those groups with the exception of maybe the military group, but that's...that's about all..

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Are you willing to participate in any of these groups to try to end homelessness? I really haven't been. I, like I said, I'm happy. I'm happy being homeless. I'm actually happy being a camper. It's... So you wouldn't get involved in any of these groups? Probably not, no. Especially since, like with, with me being homeless during the summer. I'm going to be homeless in the summer and then I'll go down south during the winter weather. It's homeless, or I'm staying at my friend's house and they'll come back up here during the summer and work again. And then after two or three years, hopefully, I'll make enough during the summer that I can actually go and retire, so,

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What might be an ideal employment situation look like for you? A What? An employment situation would look like for you? Well, here's the problem is I know that, I'm not diagnosed, but I know, I have ADD, which means that the longest I've kept a full-time job, besides military, was about six months and that was about long as I could hold down a full-time job, and it's just...Okay, I play, I'm a gamer on computers. I'll play a game for six months straight. Then I'll switch over to a different game and I'll play that game for six months straight and I'll switch back to maybe the one game or a different game.

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So have you ever thought about getting employment in doing gaming? I have thought about that in the past. I haven't really gotten into, gotten into it. But I mean, that's one area where, if you're a gamecaster, you can make good money testing games. And I've kind of looked into that a little bit. But you've decided not to use that for an employment? I've thought about using it for employment. But like I said, the past 12 years, I've been with my wife and she gets SSI and with SSI if you're married, if your spouse makes more than $550 a month before taxes, they start cutting into the SSI check. If I make more than $2100 a month before taxes they cut her check off all together. So, and with me being only being able to keep a job for about six months anyways, and then I'm off, or I either quit or get fired. Well, then in that six-month time, period her check completely cut off and then we have to try to get it back. And so that was, I just played the game in state unemployed the whole time we were married.

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So, just a hypothetical question. Oh, yeah. Um, if you could design a place for homeless people. What would that look like for you? To be be honest? I actually have a place right here in DC that if they were allowed to set it up, because down on H Street. There's a big, big area that it's got a fence all the way around it, and it's grass, a grass area. If they'd, let me set something up in there, where it still, it still has the fence up and you only have like a small area where people can come in and actually start establishing a homeless group and basically being able to bring in people that are willing to like, maybe work Street Sense, or...or are willing to work but don't have money to work and set something like that up.

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So, if you have a good idea for program for people, what would that idea be like? Street sense. Street sense is a really good paper. I noticed the sales are a little bit down now, but that's because it's been quite a few years. Plus, I know we have about 50 vendors, but I've really only seen about half of them, and I'm...when I work, I work 13th and G. That's my normal spot for my selling my Street Sense. And so I see people come through all the time and I've maybe seen about 20 vendors total, that have can actually came in and get papers and stuff. So. Do you think COVID impacted the uh, where the street sales are or jobs? Um, they may have impacted a little bit, but I think it's starting to turn around now where covid isn't as normal. So a lot of people that were working from home are now starting to come back into work. So it...sales should go back up.

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Okay. Is there any questions that I didn't ask that you want to share? No. Do you have any other ideas you would like to share? Um, no, not really. I mean, I'd like I said, I know the shelters in DC here are really bad now and I mean the shelter I went to is ran by Catholic Charities and I've been through Catholic Charities before and this...this uh, Shelter I went to was horrible.

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Can you tell me some of the conditions that were horrible at that shelter? Uh, well the bed that I took over was a person that was there the night before and left the pillow and a blanket on the bed. Well, part of the night through. He came back, grab...came in and grabbed his blanket and pillow. So I had no blanket. No pillow, just the bed itself, and I wasn't very impressed by that shelter in the least. And I mean, I've...in the shelter that me and my wife stayed in when we were homeless in St. Paul, Minneapolis was, was a Dorothy Day...was Dorothy Day or Catholic Charities, basically shelter. And that was thousand times better than the shelter was here in DC. So, yeah. Alright, so thank you for your interview, um. You're welcome.

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And you stay safe. Yep. Thank you.