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For the video is recording now, Daisy. So I was just first question is, do I have permission to record this interview? Yes, yes. Yes, I have. Speak a little slowly because it's too quick for me. Of course, I will speak slowly. Yes. In 1956 there was a war between Egpyt French and English people — the countries about the canal de Suez , the Suez canal. Then Egypt sayd all the French people and English people. Word(??) [audio cuts out]. So we left Egypt.

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So it is it. The audio has slightly cut out. We left Egypt as French citizens, and Jewish. — We flew to France and then to Brazil. Okay Daisy. So yeah. —What is your name? What's the first? — So lets start right back at the beginning, then, and I ask you, what is your name? Where were you born? And when were you born? My name is Daisy like in english. Harari H-a-r-a-r-i. My single nam. I was born in Egypt in Cairo. But why we left Egypt? Because of the war —. And then I was ten years old and we flew to France, because we where French Citizens and to Brazil

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—and then to the Brazil. And so, when you were growing up in, you grew up in Cairo, right? Untill ten years old — So when you were in Cairo, — where did you live in Cairo? What was your home life like and what did you eat? We eat mostly French food, — and sometimes Arab recipes. And many cusine Arab, Italian, turkey — because Egypt was very popular with the vegetarian food. —There was a lot of fish also. —,

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Who did the cooking in your household growing up? In Egypt? It was my mother. Word(??) [audio cuts out] Sorry Daisy, your audio has seemed to have cut out. I didn't hear? What?

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The audio cut briefly there for a second. Sorry. Do you mind repeating? North Africa, Egypt is North Africa And so you ate a lot of different food. Going up your mother cooked you the food. What were the meals that you most liked growing up? What was most special to you? Lot of meat, lot of meat. Lot of chicken because you have to understand the Egypt, — the Arab countries until now they are very rich in food. Not like Europe sometimes you have difficulties. Brazil also have lots of food. So always, we have meat, rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, we made Falafel, we made french fries. We have a lot of rice because my mother-in-law from Germany. Word(??)[audio cuts out]

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And we were making pasta. Also from Italy. Always my mother was making and I learn to do it. So you have these International influences in it in Egypt, you will eating a big range of food Until now, I still do it

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and you've kept those practices in place all the way, you've been across the world in France and Brazil Exactly. I have. And so why have you kept cooking the same things and why has that been important to you across your life? I can't understand what you. Speak slowly.

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Sorry, I was saying— These dishes that have been important to you. How have you managed to keep cooking them over the course of your life? Because it was very easy to learn.— Word(??)[audio cuts out] The cooking and the Arab cooking. So as you know, we have the Falafel, we have fries. But the most important thing that we eat, more rice, that German my mother-in-law from Germany. They eat more potato. — Yeah. So festivals and holidays, what were the kind of meals you would eat in Egypt?

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Normally — french food, And for things like Rosh Hashanah —and festivals like that —what would you mother cook for you, for big cultural festivals? [big delay in audio] My grandmother from was from Italy so it's born in Egypt. They were there. Words(??) [audio is delayed and cutting out] And we cooked a lot of Arabic cooking. As we say, Falafel words(??) Everything you have in Arab countries, I was doing, the sweets like baklavia and maamoul. So when you you left Egypt —after the Suze crisis after the Suez Canal was nationalized. Why did you go to France?

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Because —we were citizens French citizens, but my father prefer to come to Brazil. It was 1958, its a new country. It's easier to leave. [might of ment ' tolive'] So, we came to Brazil. —Theres something that you, need to know. There is in Brazil black beans. We had in Egypt yellow beans, other kinds of beans, white beans here there was black beans and many friends of my mother tried to wash it. It was a painting. (Lachlan laughs) Really cannot wash it and it was easy to cook. [Her mother thought the black colour was paint] It was easy to cook also. —And so when you arrived in — Brazil — you mentioned that you face these challenges like cooking foriegn ingredients. —Where did you live in Brazil? And what did you eat? When you first arrived? We lived in Rio de Janeiro. It was very easy to have food, until now, because there was rice, potato they had everything we had in Europe and in Egypt, there was here. The difference that in Brazil. There was not knowing, for example, spinach. It's new for them, many vegetables, but lots of vegetables were planted here in Brazil very quickly. And they have everything, we have everything. And even now, Words(??)[audio cuts out] So everything you have pasliey, cilantro. It's very easy to plant here. So where you able to cook the same dishes that you could cook, that were you ate in Egypt? In Brazil?

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Exactly. Like when I was young, Young. Words(??) [audio cuts out] [Diasy brings spice to show] Sorry there was a problem there with the internet, I couldn't quite hear exactly what you said is that cumin or tumric you where showing me? We do also the okra lots of okra in Brazil. Words(??) [speaks to the side in portugees the names of dishes, then audio cuts out, Lachlan's concetion cuts out, Daisy counties to speak with no audio] Hello sorry. We got cut off I think the internet — sorry, we were cut off, the internet cut out there, we were talking about the spices in, in Brazil that you had

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There is a lot like in Egypt, a lot of spices, but now you have spices all over the world.— They have a lot of everything. But you see in Egypt, we had the fish from the Words(??) [Daisy's audio cuts out] I can't hear you. I can't hear you Because the Wi-Fi is very slow here. Yeah yeah it might make sense to — do know if you have like a wire that you can plug in to the way to the computer. So the Wi-Fi is better

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Words(??) Yes. But the WIFI is going slowly. Yhea its slow I understand. So I'm gona tell you in Egypt there was as a lot of fish from the Mediterranean and here we have fish from Ocean, Atlantic Ocean and rivers. Sweet It's a little bit different, but they are very good. Also, fish is always good. —

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—I learned to do, like my mother-in-law. —Doing Vorschmack [she is likely refring to an Ashkanzi pickled herring dish, refered to in Germany as ether Vorschama or Forshma] you have that in Scotland? I've never heard of it before. Tell me about Words(??) [audio cuts out] I can't hear sorry? I learned to do herring —

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Herring. Yes, —yes, exactly. Exactly. Like what you do? Herring and (says name of dish to side) Choucroute from Germany. Hmm. So you said this because your husband is German. And I like it— it's good.

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So you had to, did you have to learn how to cook German food as well?— How did you do that? And what were the difficulties you faced in doing? So, and what did you enjoy? It was very easy, because as my mother, my mother-in-law also are very easy. They were really good ladies and very easy so they teach me and I began to cook when I was 10 years old as I told you. — to clean, the kitchen, the chicken chicken, (laughs) to pick the chicken to clean the fish and it was good. It was good. So you've learned from your parents and your parents in law. —were these recipes written down the mother?— Listen only mother my father never cooked, even an egg in Egypt there was a lot of employees at home. The maid was doing it. Even to cook an egg, he doesn't know, but I learned with my mother and my mother-in-law. So it was easy.

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And so have you taught those recipes down to your children as well? Yes, I taught themand now I'm beginning to teach also to the grandson Like, Leo likes to cook. Leo being your grandson. So you've taught your grandson to cook as well. So, you've kept these recipes throughout from Egypt, to France to Brazil. Why have why do you think it's important to do that? Because, food is somthing that keeps the family together. When you have a table and lots of food and family its the best thing to do. It's the only thing that we can have it. The family with food around the table. That's it.

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So that has has been important to you, across your life from Egypt, to France, to Brazil. How have you been able to maintain your family connection and your connection to food? We no more, family in Egypt. No more. We have family in France in England, and Scotland in Israel. Even in Thailand. I have family and I asked him to send me Thailand soup. — He's going to cook it next week and in Israel, I told you we have family also. So the food as I told you is to be around the table. To be around the table. Exactly, with the family and the good food, the good wine and a lot of scottch! (both laugh) my son went Scotland and he saw the maufactoring of scotch he loved it. And we have some every weekend, a lot of whiskey the best whiskey.

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And why do you think food is so good at bringing people together? (Daisy pauses) Because I'm going to tell you you can't when you are on the around the table, you can speak with the family. Everything you want. Nobody fight, nobody is sad and the food when it's good. —bring the family together, my mother always told me. If you are angry, don't cook because your anger goes to the food. You are sad don't cook and its right. Sometimes I'm not good. So I say okay I'm going to cook tomorrow, or I'm going to cook in a few hours because it's very bad when you cook sad or angry. It comes to the food. You forgot the side or you forgot the sugar, you forgot the pepper, something happen always or you your burn the food because you are not in the mood. Thats it. So when you cook, how does cooking make you feel? I like to cook, I really like to cook. And now, with me, and my husband only the two peoples when the family comes I prepared two or three years, [may mean days not years] later earlier, the food and pastrami. I learned also with my mother-in-law to do it the pastrami. It's very easy to good. And I like to cook really now for two people, it's difficult, but I cook vegtibles the rice, potatoes.

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When, when your family for celebrations, when your family comes together, how is that cooking different from when you cook for the two of you? I'm going to tell you somthing, I cook for example, rice for three or four days everyday I changed it. I put one time, the Tomato the other time I put in the rice vegetable. So it changed kind, but the base the the first rice I made it white, it's easier and next, every day I'll change the rice It's easy, it's easy. So do you like to cook? I know that you like to cook when you like to cook, (Lachlan laughs) you can make good things. Yes, it's easy. Do you cook the same recipes that your mother taught you? Or have you changed them over time?

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I cooked the same the same, but, but for example, now, I'm in Brazil, I cook black beans. There was not black beans in Egypt, not in French, at that time. Now we have everything, but I cooked the same recipes. And when Leo come with his father, mother and brother, they like my food. They really like and your mother in Scotland teach tou to cook, or you study at school, My family taught me to cook sort of the family recipes but then I learnt to cook working in kitchens, but I've always appreciated the value of those family recipes. So, I wonder because they make me feel connected to my family. Do you feel the same way when you cook these recipes for your family? Do you feel connected to your mother ? That's it. To have a good meal It's very important to be connected, with the food first, and then, the family. Because as I say if you are angry or sad, the food will not be good. That's it. It sounds difficult because if you are at a time where things are difficult and you are angry and you're sad, it seems like you would need the food to bring people together to make people less angry and sad. How do you cook at times like that in your life? How have you?

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As I say to make food for the family, it's very good. You feed the family, you feed somebody that you like it, that's the point. I feed my husband because I like him, otherwise, I'm not doing that and we don't we go to dress up and not so many because I like to cook and he helps me. But when you feed people, you like them, It's with love. You have to cook with love otherwise don't cook (both laugh) I couldn't agree more That's good. You you will be when you will have family, you will see that, I'm right. You have to cook with in mood moment. Good moments. — Where did you learn that from? That you need to cook with love. Where, where's that idea come from?

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From my mother for my mother. There's always, she said to me, you have to be in the mood and happy and you like the food, to cook if you are sad, don't do it. Wait a little have a little bit of coffee and then you continue. Did you going back to when you — initially came to Brazil? And you lived in the center of Rio as you mentioned, how did you cook. That must have been difficult, was cooking the same. Then, as it was when you became, when you lived in Rio for longer, It was not difficult because as I told you, I said I was 10 years old and my mother was explained to me how to do it, it was easy. After school, I wanted the kitchen and I was helping her to cook dinner. And for the next day, So it was easy to learn with her. —and when you, when you taught your daughter how to cook, did you feel that you were? Did you feel you? Were doing the same and imparting the same knowledge? And as your mother did to you or did it feel different?

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I changed it very, very a little bit not much, not really, not much because if you see it, you will see that the rice that we have it. Now, it's not the same for 70 years ago. The potato is not the same, so you have to manage how to do it. The condiments are not the same, but the base is the same, almost the same. — is there anything that you miss from your mother's cooking, from from the French food you ate in Egypt? The Arab food you ate in Egypt — to what you eat now in Brazil, Are there any dishes that you no longer eat that you miss? No we do it the same. Because he have everything here Europe and from Egypt also because as I have to tell you something, Brazil is a new country like United States only 500 years. So you have people from all over the world, they brought they bought and they planted a vegetable condiumunts and everything so you have everything. — Now again, tell me. You are at school with Leo?

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Yes, Leo is my friends and that's how he introduced me to you. (laughs) He's a very good person. And I tell you something, who feed the world also is also good. You have a good heart (laughs) Thank you. Yes. You have to feed the people so you have to have a good heart to be a good person.

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—When you met your parents-in-law, your your husband's parents and they taught you to cook as well. What was that like? Was that the same as it was for you learning from your mother, or did it feel different? No, I learned from my mother in Brazil, not there — because in Brazil it was eaiser. No I meant, when you when you were cooking for your husband, I know your husband is not is is not from Egypt. Didn't come from Egypt. Where did your husband come from? He's born in Brazil, the family came from Germany. That's why I told you I learned to make choucroute [speaks in porgreeges with husand] —

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Herring, choucroute from his mother but he born in Brazil, he likes black beans, rice everything. So we mixed the three or four countries together (text message sound) —and lots of sweet. For example, I make the German cheesecake. Not the cheesecake, it's a cake or like in Germany, the old-time not is, which is cake. And this this — —If you want, I can send you all a little, some one or two recipes. To Leo and Leo will give it to you. That would be amazing. I would love to have those recipes [Leo reacts with excitment and confusion form side, as he has never had a recipe from her before]

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But you have in the books? But as you've said the importance of this, it seems to me is the is passing, it down. Is the way that it's changed. You say it's changed slightly and it's but it's also stayed the same. When you talk, did you teach your daughter the same things that your mother taught you? Or were they a mixture of what you learn from your husband as well as from Brazil? I teach my mother's and my husband the same. Beacuse also they like to eat from many countries. I teach them all everything. It's normal. You see — and my son, the two daughters, doesn't cook too much, but my son cooks very well. And what is your favorite dish to cook in Brazil?

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My favorite cook? Yeah. Favorite dish to cook? What is your favorite meal to cook? I have no favorite. Not favoruite.— We like lots of meat here. We eat a lot of meat. So we have normally everyday meet chicken. And I have no, the best one, but I'm going to tell you which one Leo. Love it. We make from Egypt, potatoes and onion and garlic and chicken everything in the oven. Together, everything together. It's very good and easy because it looks you put everything together in the oven. They say it's good —Who else in your in your family Cooks? Apart from you, say your husband doesn't cook and you took your daughter to cook. So, who in your family is it, are you the main person who cook?

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Normally, they cook. But Leo likes to cook and I have another grandson. And my son is married has two children. He likes to cook also. So that's it. You see? We have a very small family, only Julio, me and the two daughters and one boy that's it. And two grandsons, we have six. So the family is very small. What celebrations brings the whole family together around food. I don't know if you know that we are Jewish. — so we make Passover. Make do all the Jewish moments together with the family. And sometimes I make turkey the big turkey, because they to teach them how to eat it. They love it. And also from Egypt and here, I make the lamb lamb, sheep the lambo sheep how'd you say, Also, they like it but normally under Jewish moments. On Friday. And do you get to bring your whole family together every Friday? Or is it only for special events? Like celebration is like Russhaina or other big Jewish festivals?

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When they where small the grandosns and the children were small, every Friday we have the family around the table, but now they grow, when they work and others study. One daughter is in some Paulo. We are in Rio de Janeiro. My son is in the USA. So the families is divided, but in the holidays, they try to come to Rio De Janeiro. And we have the whole family in Rushshana in Passia. Passieover. In Passover is difference food. And you see the food from Passover, all the Jewish family, it's different from everything country, not Egypt, not Franc, not Brazil. It's a Jewish, Passover food all over the world. It's completely different. You have the soup, you have the noodles. You have, the — no the meat with the matsa. It's a different food. Completely different without beans. And for example, from the Jewish Arab countries, eat rice and from Germany, they don't eat rice in Pisa in Passover. They eat potato normally but the food is different because it's Pasia. Do you remember your first Passover when you came to Rio? Oh yes, I rember and don't forget that it was the war. We came very poor, my father was teacher in mathematics and he had no jobs and we were helped, we were immigrants very, very without food without money. But we had some help and some families invited us to make the Jewish Holidays. And so it was the community around you that supported you to maintain that food, and that celebration.

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We have the support. And many of them received, many Jewish families, and made the holidays together. And so was it other Jewish families in Rio in Brazil that allowed you to do this or was it resilience? No, there is — not too much 150,000 in all of Brazil And so when you came, did the support mostly come from other Jews in Brazil or did it come from the Brazilian government, whether it come from?

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no, no, it comes from the Jewish families and also from the United States organization called Hyatt until now, it's in New York. So they help us to find my father to find the job. We, they paid for us, six months, the rent, and in three, or four months, because we came — the families came from Egypt with studies engering, words(??) teachers, —accountants. It was very easy to have jobs at that time —Brazil was needing people with studies. It was very easy to have jobs in three or four months. That you have Germans people, they came after the second world to Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Also, a lot of Germans family And so, how did it feel to have that first Passover meal in real after traveling so far, after having traveled so far from Egypt and then to France and then finally to Rio and Brazil, what did that first Passover meal feel lik? It was very difficult the language in a new country you have to speak the language. That's whats the difficulty. —It's normal when you are — and not forget that it was 60 years from now 60 years earlier, so the world was different, it was difficult the language. But most of us we were speaking French and English. It's very easy. Normally we speak French and English at home, it was like that easy and some some of us were speaking. Also, Italian, — so that's why we have to cook from it. And as you stayed in Brazil longer. And as you learnt Portuguese, How did your life change? How did what you eat change?

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In the beginning, it was hard. It's became to be very good because it's a good country beaches samba. Some, it was very good. I went to school and grow up here from 10 years old, it's very easy to grow up in the new country — it was easy. And how did your mother, how do you think your mother felt in those early years cooking for the family in Rio? At that time is what it was difficult because as I told you, it was difficult to have money to buy the ingredients buy the food, but we managed and we received some help and it was easy in three or four months. My father had was teaching again and he has a job, it was easy. So, she managed to have everything to cook. I imagine though, as you said, you know, you can't, you can't cook when you're unhappy. You can't cook when you're angry — but sometimes you have to cook, even if you're happy, if you're unhappy, even if you're angry,—

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(Daisy laughs) Yes, take a little bit of coffee. Give a high words(??) and beging to cook. (Lachlan laughs) Take a second to yourself. It seems —just relax is your advice. Because it's very important to cook, you have to eat word(?) And you choose the good thing you will be at Chef or you are already made the school. I am studying. I like cooking and I would like to continue cooking but I also think education is important but and but I love the history of cooking. And that's something that I think is really important is how food has played an important role in shaping who you are because I feel like what you eat, reflects who you are.

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Exactly, as I told you the condiments, there was no condiments in Brazil. So they brought from the Arabs spicies, spicy everything, the condiments, black pepper, the food travel with the people. That's the beauty of to build off the cooking you travel around the world and you give new experience. Many years ago they have black pepper cinnamon Everything. But at the beginning, they had none See, the beauty of the cooking is that. To bring the family together to travel the world with all the— Now you have everything all over the world because you can have it in the plane, vegetables, everything tomatoes. And you have new things like thus, the small tomatoes. The little ones. There was not at in my time. You have different kinds of tomatoes that we had, no, at that time. Its a new food. And how do you, how do you think these new foods and this blending of different countries has changed, how you see yourself and how you see your food? Its nice to learn, to have different different food. It's very important to know what what I'm doing in other countries. And then as I told you, you can plant all over the world. Okay, that's it, or do you need somthing more

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Well, I was going to ask you, you know, what would you, is there anything else you would like to say about yourself and your experience with food over the course of your life? Is there anything else that stands out to you? That I should have asked you about? Really, we spoke a lot and lots of you and I say everything but the most important that food brings the family together friends together, this very important, the food and to drink and it's very, very important to have the table friends and family together. That's the point, it's very important— Yeah, I've seen that across my life.— And you know, when I, when I see people cook and I when I see people cook, and when I saw people cooking in difficult situations, I was always amazed by the fact that people made this effort to bring people together, even in the most difficult of circumstances with food and with drink. I think it's a really amazing thing to to do. I think it's a really unifying beautiful thing. Even in the worst moment you have to eat, so it's better to eat happy, to eat good food, that's it. And you see the first thing in the world. The most important thing is the food. The people all over the way they need food. And good cheif. You will be a very good cheif. do it you like it.

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Yeah. I do not like it. Everyone is happier when they are sitting around drinking good. Good, drinks. And eating good food. Exactly, Yeah. Okay all you need something against I think that probably thank you, but thank you so much for talking to me. I've been really enlightening. I'm sorry about the difficulties with the with the internet. Dont worry it was very easy.

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Yeah. All right. Well, I'll stop the recording there then.