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Hello, this is Dylan McAdams and I'm going to be introduced interviewing Elizabeth wells Today is October 5 2020. At 5:57pm do I have permission to record this interview?

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Yes, he did. Alright, perfect. Okay To start off, just tell me a little bit about yourself, your back - your education background, your college and your other colleges, and then

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where you work and what department you work for. Sure. So I studied journalism at the University of Alabama for my undergraduate degree. And after I graduated, I moved to Ireland to do a master's in

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international studies. And from there, I started freelancing at CNN, on the international desk in the newsgathering department. And then last fall, I got hired on as an associate producer for CNN International Network.

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What can you tell me the years you graduated from University of Alabama and? And from Ireland? Yes, let me think about it. I've got to do some math. So Ireland was 2018. And Alabama was 2017. Okay,

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excuse me. Now Ireland was 2019. Alabama was 2017. Sorry. Thank you. And you said you were hired, last fall to work as your current, your current job, right? Correct.

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Yes, in September of last year. And what is the official title, job? associate producer for CNN International. Alright, can you tell me a little bit about your

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daily, like your daily job? What do we do each day when you got to work? Absolutely. So I'm so I work on, there's two kind of separate things that associate producers do. One is

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they handle the video and cutting, cutting and editing and making sure it's ready for air. And then the other side of it is LIVE SHOT producing, which is what I do. So I come in every day. And I work on several shows. And sometimes the shows

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have moved around, you know, over the course of the past year, but you're assigned to certain shows, and I do all the pre production and production for the lives. So if any lab guest or reporters are going to be on our show that day, I

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handle that. I reach out to the reporters to let them know what we'll be talking about. And we go through that, and then I code in all the video, or sound bites or any extra visual elements that we'll need for the shot.

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Okay, that's that sounds great. Um, and how is this changed since COVID has started? Well, it's actually changed pretty significantly as so I left a part out, I'm also in the

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control room, I'm speaking with reporters before they're going to get on air talking in their earpiece, and setting up their shot and making sure it's ready to go. So a huge thing that's happened obviously, with the with everybody quarantining and

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as people have been shut down at different times, in different countries, our reporters are coming up, you know, via Cisco, or Skype. Now, instead of having, you know, a really, I guess, what you could call a professional shot with a camera

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crew and everything like that. So we've had to deal with a learning curve, the tech with Cisco and making the shot looking presentable on air. And that's kind of been a challenge for everyone, as you know, anything from internet speed to

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lighting to, to audio quality has all kind of gone down. So we've had to figure out creative ways to learn to kind of step up that quality with a lot more limited resources. I do during COVID, have you been working at

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home? Or do you come into the office. So because I'm in the control room for the shows, we haven't having to go into the office, but because they're trying to limit the number of people, we we do one

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week in the office and one week from home. And they've just sort of separated the duty. So like, while I'm in the office, now I work on more shows. I do output more shows from the control room, but I do less of the pre production like adding an

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element reaching out to the reporters and handling more the editorial side of things. I'll have a counterpart at home that's doing editorial and then vice versa for when I'm working from home.

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Can you tell me a little bit about how the office dynamic was before COVID started? Yeah, so I mean, there was usually at least 20 to 30 people, you know, in the office area where I was

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sitting at any given time and we were all bouncing ideas off of each other. You know, if you had questions you could go straight to your editor or your show, producer or even And the executives. So we were all in the control room, you know, as

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we work to get our show together, we were talking about, you know, what they wanted to see and how we were going to do things, for them to, you know, take the show to air that day, there was also still a huge component of being on the

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telephone, because CNN International has faces in ABI Dhabi, Hong Kong and London. So sometimes your show producer was in London, and you were on the phone for you know, an hour before you go to your show. Other or they're in Atlanta. And

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at that point, you know, you're sitting at a desk, 10 feet from them, or however far they may be. And how has that kind of changed now that COVID restrictions have come into place?

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Well, we only have a round, I think, at most six people in our newsroom at any given time. So it's basically gone to all you know, virtual communication over the phone, over the computer, whatever it may be, except for,

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you know, just a few people in the newsroom we've shifted to doing instead of editorial in person meetings for our shows, to kind of set the agenda for today, that all happens on the phone, we all dial in at a certain time every day, and get

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going. And we just started communicating, we have an internal messaging group that we can use, we use slack a lot more heavily now for our communication. So it's really just rethinking the way we communicate and trying to stay

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as involved as possible without, you know, being having a camaraderie of being right around your colleagues and having that avenue of just easily being able to talk to them in person.

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Has this new dynamic hindered your job in any way? Is there like anything that you like Miss from being in person or having more people in the office? Absolutely, I think we've you know, because of

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the everybody's a little bit more overloaded as well, just trying to keep up with all the changes. And there being less people in the office, there's more of a kind of a workload on individuals now. And so it does it sometimes feel like the

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communication has been toned down to just what the central, whereas you know, if you're in the office, you can be constantly bouncing ideas off people or, you know, be constantly pitching pitching stories to your editors. And

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there's just not the bandwidth for as much of that anymore. Which is, I think it is unfortunate. And I think it probably does. I mean, I would say CNN has done a very good job and all the changes that and still getting quality

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programming to air. But you do miss that kind of that kind of open communication of just being able to think through things together. So you told me a little bit about your daily

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process, is, desert is a week run any difference, as a daily run rather than daily? What is your like your week, like? So it has changed from week to week a little bit. Whereas my job was kind of combined editorial, and

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logistics before everything shut down. Now, from week to week, for my weeks in the office, it's mostly just logistics. I mean, there's some editorial to it. And of course, I have to be on top of the stories and know what's going on and everything.

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But my main duties are logistics, and then on my work from home weeks, it's mainly all editorial, there's just not much I can do logistically from my position at home. So it's kind of just been split down the middle like that. And instead of

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having, you know, two, two shows that I work on a day I do five or six shows for shift is, in your opinion, what side do you like more of the being in the office or worked on stuff at home,

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I like being in the office just because I'm able to get into, it makes me feel like a more part of the shows for sure. I like being in the control room and feeling and having all that side of it. And then I also have a harder time,

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I guess getting into just work mode from home, you know, because there's a million different things that you can distract you. And you know, if you're in a I'm kind of in a smaller apartment where I don't have like a designated office

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area, it's just hard for me to necessarily get in the zone that I need to sometimes to work. I mean, you make it work, but it's still I feel like I don't have the same level of focus as I do when I'm in my office environment.

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Okay, switching gears a little bit, what was yours and your like, people your work was first reaction when you heard about COVID coming to the United States. Huh? That's a good I'd have to think about

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that for a moment. I mean, we'd all been following it very closely as an international network as it you know, the hotspot moved from China over to Italy into the UK and then over us. So I think we all kind of knew that it was only a matter

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of time until we were going to be dealing with it, you know, at home. But I don't think any of us realized quite To what extent How you know how extreme things would get. So I think there's just all that sense of, you know, a bit of a nervousness,

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but about, you know, knowing things would change, but not, not so much as I think we all thought that it would be handled a little bit differently, and we'd be out of the woods with a lot sooner than we actually are, are going to be.

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Were you at any point when I was first kind of coming to the United States, you and your colleagues scared about your jobs, and a lot of companies had to layoff a lot of people? Were you did that fear ever crossed your mind?

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Yes, absolutely. Um, and our department did recently did recently have some layoffs. And I think, you know, in any kind of these uncertain situations, there's always the fear of that. And journalism is already a

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pretty the kind of when landscape of at, you know, revenue in journalism is kind of changing, and people are struggling to keep up, especially in broadcast. So there's always a little bit of that fear, I think, even before

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the pandemic, you know, media companies were restructuring all the time. And we'd already went through a major change or changes with Warner media taking over. And now this extra thing is the pandemic and all the uncertainty that that has

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caused, I think that there definitely was a very palpable feel of that in the newsroom. It actually leads right into my next question. How, like, how chaotic really was it with Warner media taking

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over being freshly new, and then the pandemic hitting like, were there any problems right off the bat, or we're seeing I think the scene, things seem normal at first. So when Warner, Warner media, everything was

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pretty much in place by the time I started. So I probably didn't notice the differences as much, since I kind of just came into it. I know a lot of people that I talked to had been, you know, they had, it was kind of a year of anxiety for them, or if not

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longer, and things were sort of settling down again, but I was kind of I kind of moved in as everything was settling back down. The first few weeks of when everyone was out of the office, it was quite chaotic. We were all trying to figure out

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how we were still going to get put quality television on air a with our reporters having restricted movement with having x extremely, you know, an extremely downsized staff into the office. So there was a lot of changes that had to happen

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very, very quickly. That did it did, there was a definitely a sense of chaos to it. And how exactly did warnermedia and CNN International first react when COVID had the United States like

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what was theirs, their statements. So as soon as we had the CDC guidelines, you know, we immediately were required to wear masks. That was the first thing. And I guess by the time it was really spreading

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in Georgia, and things were looking like they were gonna shut down. We had to limit staffing. So they started sort of phasing us out, the writers were the first to move out of the building, because it was the easiest to move there for them

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to pick up their jobs from home. So we slowly started phasing as many people as we could until we get down to the skeleton staff of six or seven people in our newsroom as we have now. And I guess a few months ago, we started Warner media, the

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company as a whole started a new app where we have to log we have to check in every day, we have to take our temperature. And we go through a set of five or six questions about whether we believe to have been exposed or experience any symptoms or

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anything like that. And of course, we went through yesterday those questions. You're not allowed in the building? Um, do you think the company had a good response?

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Yes, I felt very safe the entire time I've been there. Is there anything you think they could have done better than maybe it's something is lacking on one side that

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they're focusing too much on one thing that they lacked on the other thing? I mean, do you mean just from safety protocols or from our jobs, more in general of with working from

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home and everything on first safety protocols, and then second, working from home safety protocols? I think they they did

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as best as they could, as quickly as possible with the information that we had about the virus. I wouldn't have any complaints on that end. What about from working from home?

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I think they could have possibly some of the executives and higher ups could have done more to reach out and figure out what was working and what wasn't working for people at home. Okay, I think there was and I think part of that was

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everybody being in such a rush. To try to get everything sorted out. So there is, I mean, it's understandable the way it happened, but but there were some communication pitfalls in that time period of the transition.

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Mm hmm. So you kind of mentioned a little bit, how has how what your job has changed? How do you think the field of journalism as a whole has changed because of coronavirus?

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Well, I mean, while we've been reporting on the pandemic, there's been countries where you've been totally locked down. So it's, a lot of that's gone totally virtual. Whereas we would used to go out and find the story and

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be able to, you know, see the story as it's happening before our eyes, we had to do a little bit more digging online and find creative ways. What about zoom calls, or just more over the phone interviews, and in person interviews, we had to transition

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to a much, much more reporting that way. We're normally cnn would send, you know, the reporters out to be in the thick of things. But it just was not necessarily always an option in certain countries as they shut down or we deemed the risk was

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too great in certain hospital areas to send reporters in. has it become you think more difficult to find stories? Or has there been like a learning curve that it's now becoming kind of second nature,

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I think there's definitely been a learning curve. You had people who are ready to talk about their experiences, I found a lot in this and I reporter seem to think the same way. And a reporter could speak to this

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much better than I could because they're out in the field, conducting the interviews, where I'm more on the production side of things. But you know, people are always good people have always wanted to tell their stories and still do, it's just

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the format is changing a little bit. And the way you reach out and connect with people had to change some. When you started down the profession of journalism, did it ever cross your mind that you would have to

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do something like this, especially when you first come in? into the profession? No, absolutely not. I could, if you told me that I, you know, even a year ago, it's just unimaginable. I

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never expected something of this. I mean, it's really, it's like nothing we've seen in our lifetimes, you know, you think about going in and you know, you'll be covering, you know, conflicts and crises around the world. But, you know, a global

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pandemic was definitely not on the radar. Do you think if you if you would have known what is deterred you from pursuing this profession? No, I don't think so at all. I mean, it's

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actually been kind of I do have some appreciation for the fact that I've been, you know, been able to watch this unfold and feel a responsibility. You know, I do think it's the biggest story of our time, and to have come in just, you know, out of

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the gate to be able to cover such an important story, I feel kind of humbled by that and appreciative for the opportunity. I mean, obviously, no one would ever want this to happen. But I think we have a huge responsibility to tell the

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story. And it's such an important story for people to have accurate information. Definitely. And so you've mentioned a little bit about how you and your colleagues have been taking the

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changes. Um, has there been any pushback to some of the changes in the organization? Yes, absolutely. I think some people were not comfortable coming in at all. And they've had to make

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adjustments, you know, some of the people in our newsroom are significantly higher risk. So there wasn't like an even set of rules that go for everybody. And I think that was kind of received different ways across the newsroom. Obviously, it's

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safer to have people such as myself that are, you know, 20 to 30 years old, then to have our some of our older people that are 65 plus in the newsroom, which is understandable. I think. There's been some people that have had to do duties that

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were from kind of lower positions due to limited staffing. So that has been I don't know if it's necessarily

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been a point of condition can tension but it is something that's had to happen while we've been here. So I definitely think there has been some pushback. There's been a lot of schedule changing like myself, and some of my other colleagues, most of

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our daytime programming got canceled or a significant amount of At first, we weren't doing any daytime television at all, it was all overnight. So basically, everybody had to totally switch their schedule to overnights which, which it was

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hard on a lot of people within you know, changing your work schedule completely with all the other changes that was that. Were going out in the world. It was definitely it definitely. I guess was a literal shock to the system.

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So you work overnights? Yes, ma'am. Yes. How has How does working overnights kind of like, work for you. So it actually works quite well. For me. It took a while to adjust it did because I was on before

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everything shut down, my schedule was 6am to 2pm, or 7am to 3pm, depending on the shows that week. But uh, and now I'm getting off at 6am. So it was completely flip flopped. And there was definitely a very brutal two to three month

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transition period. I've tried to adjust my sleep schedule, my eating schedule, and really, you know, everything. But since I've been able to correct my sleep schedule, I don't I don't mind it at all. The nights are really busy, we have a great team. And,

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and that's where the, you know, the crux of our programming for international has gone since we, since we are simulcasting so much more of our domestic network. So once you get past the transitional phase, it's not too bad, at least for myself.

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That's good. How has working about both from home to the office next week, and then also working at nights kind of, like affected your personal relationships? You know, I think it's been kind of a good

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time to, I guess, as you know, put your time in on overnights for the network, because for a good portion of it, you know, things were very much locked down, and I'm still staying inside as much as possible. So, you know, I didn't feel like I

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was missing out on as much as say, if, you know, I was working overnights on a normal summer. But yeah, I mean, you You do have to be much more routine and make much more of an effort to reach out to people, you know, I can't, you know, my my

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afternoons or the times that I can can talk to my, you know, friends and loved ones and all that. And then I'm sleeping for most of the day. So just, you do have to be a little bit more regimented and have to have more of a routine. But overall, it's

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been, it's been easy enough, I would say. It's, I don't, I don't feel like it's really had an I wouldn't say it's had a negative effect really on any of my personal relationships. That's good to hear. Um, what has you your

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greatest challenge since COVID has started been? I think, um, I really, really had a hard time focusing from home. Um, and really like getting the motivation to get in work mode from the overnights at home was

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definitely the biggest challenge for me. And then I would feel sort of like I was not pulling my way and not doing as well as I should, you know, there are certain aspects of guilt of like, feeling that I couldn't fulfill my job duties as much as

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I needed to be. What are what steps did you really take to kind of help fix this challenge? i? Well, I've started working in the same

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spot. And I, you know, at first I kind of would let myself if things were I've had a break at work, I would let myself you know, go do something around the house that needed to be fixed, you know, or, you know, that I need to take care of, or whether

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it's like doing the dishes or doing laundry or doing something quick like that. You know, just when I had a few minutes of a break, I would just be doing all these other things, which I think really led me to be extremely unfocused. So I kind

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of set up my workspace and told myself, you know, for those eight hours, I'm going to be in work mode, even if I need to get something done around the house or want to, you know, get distracted by something I'm going to you know, only work on

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things that involve CNN. And I think that really helped me regain my focus. All right, that sounds really good. That's sounds like a great way to get back into, like, the focus of

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things. Yeah, I had to really figure out how to separate like, even though I'm at home, like, I still need to separate the things that I do at home and my job.

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Mm hmm. So kind of moving along a bit. Um, you and your team recently won an Emmy for a new show. How was it like winning an Emmy during COVID? So it was it was really rewarding. I mean,

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it's been a It has been a lot of work. You know, the last six months we've all been kind of overwhelmed. Amid grinding, and it's just been like such a, such a salacious news cycle, you know, everybody's been exhausted. So it did feel it

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felt pretty it felt right, really, you know, to know that, you know, to have that kind of recognition. And to know that, you know, people are paying attention to the stories you're telling, and that they are, you know, they do matter. So it was

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it was really nice, actually. And the new segment, but you for the new one, was this produced during COVID? Or was this produced before that

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it was prior to COVID. So it was the in the Turkish incursion into Syria. Last year that we did it, so they usually run around a year behind for the award show. So yes, it was post COVID.

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That's actually really interesting. And I guess really cool to hear that like, winning the Emmy really kind of helped motivate you guys and kinda like it as like a reward for all the hard work you guys done, especially with COVID.

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Exactly. Yeah, it was it was an uplifting moment for sure. All right. Um, so what do you think, the hardest challenge that CNN has really faced with COVID? You've

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mentioned how the hardest challenge that you have faced, what about you? What do you think about seeing an international? Well, I think financially, everybody's feeling

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the, you know, the financial strain of it, like most other big companies are. And then I think, you know, from a more editorial standpoint of finding all the misinformation and disinformation that has been out there, surrounding the

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surrounding the disease, particularly in the United States, but also, you know, in Brazil and other places, that have kind of downplayed the effects of trying to figure out ways to have the public's trust and get more, you know,

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expertise on and really show them that, you know, this is a very serious disease, and the numbers aren't being faked, the stories aren't fake, you know, kind of fighting that fake news. charge that is being thrown at us from a lot of different

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politicians, and just trying to gain the public trust and let them know what you know, the seriousness and the information that they need to about this disease. And that goes even further with the, you know, the failing trust of our, into our

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medical institutions, you know, even the CDC is under fire right now. Because everything is so politically charged. So I think the biggest challenge has really been trying, you know, figuring out how to, you know, show them, give them all the information

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that they need. And while you know, combating these false narratives, that it's all, you know, overplayed are not that big of a deal, or all the other reasons and, you know, there's, there's also a, you know, viewer fatigue, this has been going on

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since March. You know, people are people, frankly, I mean, you can, as we watch how people are responding our stories and what people are clicking on online, people are getting tired of hearing about Coronavirus, they're they're,

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it's, the story is, I guess losing steam even though the virus is not losing steam. And so trying to keep our viewers interested and such a big consequential thing has been

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pretty difficult as as we get further and further into this pandemic. Are there anything that is there anything that cnn is doing to try to like, keep people interested?

00:28:37.200 - 00:28:52.470

Yeah, I mean, we also we, at least my team and my network, we try to go to the heart of the store, we try to talk to real people experiencing it. And you know, if there's a people tend to be interested in big names. So obviously, we

00:28:52.470 - 00:29:04.560

report any, you know, major people that have gotten it, but we also try to find like your everyday people, and you know, show them that this is how it is affecting the real lives of individuals. This is how it's affecting, you know, all the

00:29:04.560 - 00:29:17.070

people that have been laid off over the course of the pandemic. So trying to talk to people with first hand experiences, has always been one of the biggest goals, and then also trying to keep, you know, keep it toward more so to where we had the

00:29:17.070 - 00:29:36.210

doctors on air talking about it instead of politicians. giving them information has been kind of our strategy. What about the field of like broadcast media and journalism in general? Like, do you think other news agencies

00:29:36.210 - 00:29:49.500

have done a good job have like from your outside, like your view of being part of CNN, but seen other news broadcasts? Do you think they have done a good job as well? I would say that most have definitely tried.

00:29:49.500 - 00:30:03.030

I can't speak to the inner workings and their inner you know, strategies. But I think everybody's doing their best. I mean, I know most of like colleague, my colleagues, and everyone has just frankly, been exhausted, you know? So yeah, I

00:30:03.030 - 00:30:18.780

do think we've done we've done a good job particularly in facing so many changes. And when I say we, I mean that the industry as a whole, of course, there there is are some media that's right wing and very left wing. And I think certain networks have

00:30:18.810 - 00:30:32.250

definitely gotten way too politicized with, you know, this being such a huge election year as well and so much politically at stake. I do think some networks have strayed from the from the truth of the story, which is unfortunate.

00:30:34.680 - 00:30:49.530

Particularly for, you know, our audiences that comfort test for trusted information. Kind of on the topic of the election, Sina International, how have they been trying to like, frame the

00:30:49.530 - 00:30:58.260

election? If you guys do frame the election anywhere in any way? Well, we try to think of our international audience, you know, not necessarily. So are the stories

00:30:58.260 - 00:31:10.020

are a little bit more broad and context, and we look at kind of how the fundamentals of America are gonna change rather than, you know, some more localized issues, because the international audience, you know, they're going to be more

00:31:10.230 - 00:31:19.440

curious about foreign policy than, you know, our domestic audience may be more focused on domestic issues. So there is definitely a different angle than we take from our domestic counterpart.

00:31:22.710 - 00:31:38.730

And in this interaction and international, is there been any, like, stories that you've been told or really have, like, been harder to produce than others? Let me think about that.

00:31:44.040 - 00:31:57.000

I find I think it's always harder, you know, when we have international stories, I think for me, as an American, it's harder for me to always think, more broadly for an international audience. So say things like the election.

00:31:57.240 - 00:32:11.220

You know, SCOTUS was a huge story recently that comes to mind. Because I think of these stories growing up, you know, with an kind of an American view of thing. And that's how I've kind of consumed and learn about current events of trying to

00:32:11.220 - 00:32:25.740

repurpose them for an international audience is challenging for me perfect, personally, from time to time. But I would have, what do you mean by that more? So? I mean, do you mean like a specific story that's been hard, or

00:32:27.570 - 00:32:43.140

I'm thinking more like, kind of like, narrowing down to specific stories from the international community? Because when you say international means everybody in the United States, like how do you like other stories that that

00:32:43.140 - 00:32:53.010

kind of you guys come across, I think, Oh, this will be perfect to show and others. They think, Oh, this, we shouldn't show this. This. This wouldn't go over well? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't know. So it's so

00:32:53.010 - 00:33:06.420

much. It's like, yeah, we I mean, there's certain things that have geopolitical consequences that we're always going to report on. You know, everyone wants to know how Coronavirus is doing in different hotspots in the world,

00:33:06.420 - 00:33:16.860

and also in places like New Zealand or Vietnam that have handled it really well, we try to bring those stories out as kind of an example of, you know, this is kind of what has worked in certain places, and this is what happened, doesn't, and

00:33:16.860 - 00:33:28.650

there's been a, you know, an appetite for that. And I think, you know, apart from things that are consequential for the globe as a whole, you know, we try to think

00:33:28.650 - 00:33:43.920

about that. And then also, there's certain stories that are just, you know, good stories like that, you know, basic human interest stories that everybody kind of latches on to and feels a certain way about it, even if it's not necessarily, you know,

00:33:43.920 - 00:34:00.240

consequential to everyone on the entire planet. Well, switching gears just a little bit, um, what is it like, being like a woman in the journalism industry? Because for the longest time, it was very much a

00:34:00.240 - 00:34:17.790

man's industry. How has that changed? Do you think? So my newsroom is actually very, very female, heavy, I'd say we were probably around 7030 with mostly females. So I think that's probably that's a huge switch. Our

00:34:17.790 - 00:34:36.930

executive producer is a female director, one of our directors as a female, and which is not true for for my understanding to CNN as a whole, it's still more male dominated. You know, but for international, we're very female led newsroom, which has

00:34:36.930 - 00:34:54.330

been great. I haven't felt it. I think maybe I was lucky enough to get in past the time I haven't really felt that being a female has really caused any has really hindered my ability to find a job or you know, do do the work that I need to or has

00:34:54.330 - 00:35:05.220

had an effect, you know, in my interpersonal interactions with people around the world. Actually, that sounds, that's actually really great to hear.

00:35:05.610 - 00:35:16.590

Yeah, it's actually better than expected. Because I think, you know, we've all heard about the horrific stories that have come to light over the past couple years. And so you go and kind of thinking one way, and it was, it was nice

00:35:16.590 - 00:35:32.250

that it did not end up being, you know, as we've heard, do you have like, any advice to give to, like students in the journalism major, now that you've, after you've experienced it a bit, and especially in either experience

00:35:32.250 - 00:35:48.990

in a, in a pandemic? Um, absolutely, I think, you know, it's a very, it's a very competitive field, but don't ever sell yourself short. And even if you don't think you know, as you come out,

00:35:48.990 - 00:36:01.860

and they're maybe looking for internships, or jobs, like, don't apply, because you don't not apply, because you think you know, that something is too big or something is too, you know, it's kind of out of your league, you never know, who's going to

00:36:01.860 - 00:36:16.080

see your application, do the end, you know, it's going to connect with. So definitely go for and just, it takes a certain amount of stamina and endurance, just keep going for it Don't give up, it's gonna take a while. But it is very, very

00:36:16.080 - 00:36:32.610

worthwhile. And, you know, don't take criticism when you're pitching stories. Or coming up with ideas, don't take criticism of that personally, because you do have to, you do have to get used to a certain amount of rejection in the field of

00:36:32.610 - 00:36:45.150

journalism. So you have to learn to kind of create a tough skin and know that that's not a reflection on you as a person, it's just, you know, it's just the way it is, and you still need to come up with, you know, you still have to keep pushing

00:36:45.150 - 00:36:59.940

for your stories that you think are important, and fighting to, you know, to tell those stories. Alright, sounds that sounds like some great advice. Um, do you believe that the broadcast media and

00:36:59.940 - 00:37:12.840

journalism field will be different after COVID has finally passed on? You know, I've actually thought about that a lot. I don't know. I mean, that we found cheaper ways to produce

00:37:12.840 - 00:37:25.740

television, but it's not necessarily, I wouldn't say it's not less, the stories aren't of any less quality, I would say, but sometimes the production, you know, versus a, you know, a Skype Cohen from a guest versus, you know, paying to have a

00:37:25.740 - 00:37:40.080

studio done. So I don't know if that will change, you know, just certain shortcuts financially that can be done. Um, field as a whole. I think that's a hard that's a hard thing to,

00:37:43.770 - 00:37:55.290

to predict, to be honest. I'm not sure. I haven't thought about it. And to be honest, I just I don't know. Do so you've mentioned something like the shortcut change? Is there? Is there any other changes that you

00:37:55.290 - 00:38:10.320

think will stay of his past? I mean, I think he'll definitely let more people work from home. And I think that's probably true of a lot of industries, not just journalism. Just because they've realized

00:38:10.320 - 00:38:23.790

that they could make it work. And do you think the evolution of kind of like, broadcast media and journalism is a good thing? Or do you think it's kind of hindering it a bit?

00:38:26.010 - 00:38:36.300

I mean, I still think we're learning with, you know, not being in the newsroom together. I think there was definitely it definitely hindered at the beginning. And there's probably still some residuals of that just not

00:38:36.300 - 00:38:50.130

having the camaraderie and over communication. That is what you have when you're all sitting in one conference room together, or one newsroom together. You're seeing each other every single day. But I do think there's ways around it and as time goes on,

00:38:50.130 - 00:39:07.080

we're getting better and better at it. So I don't think that in the end, we'll get back back to that. But yes, I mean, it has hindered at some, but I don't think that'll be a long term thing. I think we'll kind of learn to to as this situation

00:39:07.080 - 00:39:20.040

becomes, you know, more normal, I think we'll learn that how to make it work better and better as we go forward. And you mentioned earlier that you wouldn't change you would still go into this profession, even if you knew

00:39:20.040 - 00:39:31.080

about Coronavirus but are you still happy like in this varies too happy with your education choices and your choice of career After experiencing journalism in the middle of a pandemic?

00:39:32.100 - 00:39:51.210

Yes, yes, I still very much am. I'm fortunate I feel like I've already you know, my career has been off to a very rewarding start. I am around a lot of kind of veteran legendary reporters and producers and have had the

00:39:51.210 - 00:40:06.390

opportunity to really learn a lot from them even in the time you know Coronavirus has slowed everything down a little bit from training purposes and career advancement. All of that, but I still Yes, I'm still very happy with, with my education

00:40:06.390 - 00:40:19.140

and career choices so far. That's great to hear. Lastly, is there any anything that I mentioned that you may want to expand upon? Or is any other questions that you think I should have asked that I

00:40:19.170 - 00:40:41.190

may have just skipped over? Let me think about that. Um, I think one thing I missed over is, I actually just thought of that, as I was answering your last question is how one thing that

00:40:41.190 - 00:40:55.200

has changed is basically all training. Right now in the middle of the pandemic, to kind of further your career has more or less stopped, the executives have just come to come around trying to find new ways. But that was definitely a major

00:40:55.200 - 00:41:08.460

challenge. Before the pandemic shut down, I was supposed to start doing some writing trainer, which would be the next like, natural step and the department that I'm in. And that basically got put on hold for six months. And, you know, I'm

00:41:08.460 - 00:41:22.080

doing a little bit here and there on my own time off the clock, but it's still basically on hold. And I think likely will be until you know, things are open back up a little bit more. And we can, we can be in the office and get hands on

00:41:22.080 - 00:41:34.470

training, and people are less, less overwhelmed by the new cycle and all the changes. So that's kind of been tough, I think you think about, you know, we all have our own ambitions and everything. And then that kind of gets stomped out for a

00:41:34.470 - 00:41:46.200

while. And it's, of course, in a position that everyone a lot of people around the world are in, and I feel very fortunate to still have a job, and then still be working. But it still does, it can be a little bit discouraging from time to time.

00:41:48.930 - 00:42:00.180

You say that actually, maybe the another question? What is your like, your full, like full ambition in this career. So it still changes a lot to be completely

00:42:00.180 - 00:42:16.590

honest with you, I would love to do some field producing, because I think, you know, the opportunity to tell people stories and get out in the field and talk to people I think is definitely what kind of bring a whole new light to the world,

00:42:16.650 - 00:42:33.510

you know, to the storytelling angle, and a really new understanding to the stories we're telling to be to be able to see it firsthand. But I actually would like to transition out of broadcast to more to more digital format. I

00:42:33.510 - 00:42:48.150

think, for me, the way I consume the news, as you know, growing up, you know, I was always interested in current events. And as I studied, I was always I mean, I watched the news a lot but more so I read about it online or, or you know, in

00:42:48.150 - 00:42:59.850

print, more so than watching on television, and different opportunities arise. And I ended up where I am now. But uh, I definitely want to make that transition at some point in my career and do a little bit more writing and digital

00:42:59.850 - 00:43:21.750

production. Okay. actually brought up another question. So this most recent Jenner generation does, as you said, kind of consumes news very differently than than others. And I feel like that's also been kind of pushed on upon more with

00:43:21.780 - 00:43:38.070

Coronavirus and like, more new, like digital reading news has been consumed. Do you think this is a big change to the news industry? Do you think like broadcast media is slowly being phased out to a more digital accessible platform?

00:43:38.640 - 00:43:48.840

Yeah, I think the platform will change. But as far as like, when you think of like television, you know, I think the technologies are changing. But I think you know, interview I think that the format will change a little bit,

00:43:48.840 - 00:44:01.050

but I don't necessarily think of like when we think of TV, you know, in a box, I guess it's, you know, hard to explain it, what were the same, I think it would go to more streaming content. But I don't think that will ever entirely go away. I

00:44:01.050 - 00:44:18.000

think people will always kind of want their hour of Evening News. Maybe not. It may not be as big of a market. So I think you know, there's the more mixed model revenues and, you know, digital production along with you know, CNN may be a streaming

00:44:18.120 - 00:44:32.610

service at one time. Not that there's talk about that I'm just kind of throwing ideas out, but I do think, yeah, I think I think it will change but not I don't think it like television news will ever completely go away.

00:44:34.680 - 00:44:48.810

Okay. Is there anything else you can think of or another I one other challenge of the pandemic is, you know, it's been very hard to get to the core of the

00:44:48.810 - 00:45:08.010

story because it's very hard to find hospitals where you can go in, you know, for safety reasons, and a lot of different A lot of different factors. I mean, some of them weren't allowed to have news media. And so I think, actually, you know,

00:45:08.010 - 00:45:20.520

one of the other biggest challenges is just been trying to see the, you know, the people that have been affected by Coronavirus, the worst getting being able to see that firsthand as much as we would like to.

00:45:26.580 - 00:45:41.070

So, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me today. Um, your interviews actually been very enlightening and has actually very helped, like contribute to my project that I'm doing on. And I'm really excited to be

00:45:41.070 - 00:45:52.170

able to hear your take on like the projects in your industry, and then it's time in the age of COVID. Great. Well, I'm so happy you reached out please feel free to follow up with any questions or anything

00:45:52.170 - 00:45:57.090

that you may need. I'm more than happy to help. Thank you so much, right. So take care