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Okay. My name is Vernon Suggs. And your name? Eugene Cole. James Cole. Oh, Eugene. I'm with the Humanities Truck. We're compiling information about homelessness, from the aspect of humanity.

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Okay, Thank you. And we're compiling this information for the purpose of helping better understand and - To resolve all this, I got it.

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Right. This information will be seen by many and [shown] to the proper people who really want to help with homelessness and make it better. Get help, you know? Okay. Today is - We're at - This is 14th and Thomas Circle. And do I have your permission to record this interview? Yeah, Okay. And your full name is Neugene Cole.

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Eugene. E-U-G-E-N-E. Eugene. Okay, Cole. Okay. Where and when were you born, Eugene? I was born here in Washington, DC, in 1968. Okay, where were you raised?

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10th and M. Right down the street. [laughs] I grew up in this area. So did I. Okay, so are you currently experiencing homelessness? So to speak. So to speak. What does that mean, "so to speak"? Yes, no, in between?

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In between. Okay, you've been here all your life. And for how long have you been experiencing this situation? Maybe four or five years. Four or five years, okay. Have you ever experienced homelessness before?

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No. I always had somewhere to go, someone - Well, actually, yeah, because when your name is not on the lease you are considered homeless, so it's been awhile. Okay. Are you currently experiencing - Now, how would you describe your current living situation? [phone rings] One minute. It's my job.

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How would you currently [describe] your living situation? Off-balance. Off balance, okay. Where and when were you born? Okay, you were born here in Washington, DC. I was born in Washington, DC, 1968.

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Okay. All right. And you say your current living situation is off and on. Why do you think homelessness continues to be a big problem in Washington, DC and the larger area? Well, mostly because politicians refuse to spend money on the care of the American people. Blacks, whites, mixed, whoever, whoever that doesn't, that's not rich. And you know, it bothers me because I see them spend hundreds of millions of dollars to help other countries out and you can't take care of people here. That doesn't make sense to me. Okay. Has the ability to live in the city area changed over the course of your life in ways that have made homelessness more or less prevalent? It's more homeless now than it was when I was growing up, I believe. In fact, when I was growing up, I met Mitch Snyder.

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Mitch? Mitch Snyder, who helped out with the 2nd and D [CCNV] shelter. Okay. I actually knew him personally, him, his daughter [unintelligible], Carol, his wife. They started a shelter, had a shelter on 12th Street. Between, was it K and I? They had a shelter out of their own home. That's when I first knew about homelessness, but it wasn't that bad all to me.

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You say it wasn't that bad at all? Just to my eyesight, back then it wasn't. Okay. Why do you think homelessness continues to be a big problem in DC? Probably like I said, political. It's all political. You'll be able to build a condo instead of building affordable housing. You know, like Mayor Muriel Bowser. She came in the office and she said, she's going to put help in all eight wards of the city when she [had] her first term. And it's not happening. It hasn't happened. So, you know, you get in and you turn your back on the people that got you there. So that's one of the big problems.

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The mayor makes promises. Has the ability to live in this city changed over the course of your life in ways that have made homelessness more or less prevalent? Yeah, because it's predominantly Caucasian now, it used to be all Black and they did stick together, mostly Black, back when I was coming up. We stuck together. We had a little neighborhood thing and if you needed something it was there, but now people don't want to look out for each other day. Everybody's on independent time. You know, this is all about me instead of all about us. Okay, everybody for themselves. What do you think are the biggest causes of homelessness in this city? Well, in this city, the ability to pay rent, basically, and mental aspects. It's a lot of stress and strain on people in this city. It causes of - It's just not financial that causes homelessness. Mostly it's emotionally, mentally, that causes a lot of homeless people out there. There's a -

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A lot of people go through mental problems. I mean, you can't focus and that causes them not to think, right? And if people don't want to be around them and don't want to care for them, it hurts a lot and kills - Hurts a lot of people. A lot of people out here are homeless and suffering from depression, anxiety. And there's a lot of stuff that's going on out here, mentally. I'm going to turn this off. The battery's going down. I want you guys have light. Okay, let me - There's a lot of questions?

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We got about 20 more questions. All right. How does the job situation in the city impact people's ability to access housing? Well, a lot of people that come - A lot of people coming out of prison so they are hard to get jobs. A lot of people are not educated. So it's hard for them. And the ones that get jobs, they don't pay enough to - They don't pay them to the status of their abilities or their degrees, or whatever stuff like that. They're not - This like really weird. It's like off balance. Yeah, the pay scale, the living. I mean, the pay scale, the ability to hire proper people. You want to hire people at a cheap rate instead of hiring people that can do the job. That creates a lot of problems. Basically you can't make enough money to pay your bills and do what you got to do.

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They're not going to hire - They'd rather have ten people for nothing, little to nothing, than hire a person that can do the job appropriately. What kind of housing situations and/or neighborhoods are most successful to you or people in your situation? What kind of what? You say - What kind of neighborhood? What kind of housing situations and/or neighborhoods are most successful to you or people in your situation? In-between-the-homes situation.

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Well, the people that are adaptable to us are people that - Like poor people, whether they're more accessible. They'd rather deal with the homeless than the white - than the rich people, the people that have got jobs and money, that got success. They don't want to deal with people because they think they're beyond that situation, but it's just people that can associate and kind of live beyond themself. Look beyond themself, rather, can deal with the homeless people more so than people that think they're better. They think, "you're better than me." They look down on people, it doesn't matter what color you are [unintelligible], if you're doing something successful, you think you're doing something successful. They look down on purpose on homeless people [unintelligible] but they don't know the situations that cause a lot of the stuff. Well, that's what this humanities project is for, is about. Hopefully we can get some things out here so people can understand.

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Okay, what kind of jobs are available to you? Well right now, none. Because I have reoccurring hernias, I need to keep having surgeries. And I'm not - Keep getting denied for Social Security. I'm going to have another hernia surgery whenever there's time. Your hernias keep coming back. That's interesting. Has the job situation changed over the course of your time in DC In a way that has impacted people's ability to access housing?

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Yeah, because people don't - Like I said, people don't want to hire people because they don't want to spend the money to help that so people can live. They want to hire people where they can still make their money. Take a little extra money off of it and, you know, forget about the other people. So. What about the jobs? What type of job - Have the jobs changed? Well, most jobs are available are construction jobs, or restaurants, fast food restaurants, but they still - Even those don't want to hire people because they'd rather get cheaper labor and get their money off of there where they can make more money off the labor instead. So is it hard to find a job in DC, would you say?

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Not really. It's just, people need to - People can find a job, but the people that are hiring need to hire instead of allowing people to go to that bull crap. So would you say that they don't pay enough money? It's not just about the money for me. I mean, well, for a lot of people it's not about the money, it's that a lot of people just don't want to hire people because their ethnic tendency, their background, their lifestyle, how they live, how they think they live. It's not just about the color of their skin. Mostly it is, but they don't want to hire people because they're afraid people are going to do what they're supposed to do and get what they're supposed to get. They don't want to go through that. They want - Most people - A lot of businesses like chaotic situations. And that hinders a lot of people from getting jobs. A lot of people need to get in their jobs and get it going. Okay. The programs that are available for the homeless, or the services. In what way do government social services and changes to those services impact homelessness for the better or for the worse?

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The government, recently, they've been trying, but they're not putting - They don't have enough people to put it out there, to let people know that they got these different programs that can assist them and whatever. And then once they get the assistance going on, they want to do the bureaucratic process and play devil's advocate, so to speak. Just force the BS around instead of getting it done. Okay, so it's deterring - They deter you in the process, that's what you're saying. Pretty much. A lot of agencies - If the people that work in the agency do what they got to do, therefore they make sure the government will do what they need to do. But a lot of them just get you in there, get you signed up, and then they start lacking assistance, you know, stop the pushing, stop all that. They start doing their little bureaucratic process and they start, you know, BS-ing with people. What does that do?

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It makes a lot of people not want to continue to use government assistance or anything like that. They say the government isn't going to help. [Unintelligible] Hell, the government is not going to do this, not going to do that. But in reality, if you use the law and let the law let them know that you are supposed to do this because you put this on here that you're doing it in black and white or or verbally, if you're not doing it then you're lying. So a lot of people just don't want to go through that process of forcing the government to do their job. So what about the employment services? Employment services can only do but so much, you know. I don't know. What's been your experience?

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Well, my experience when I came home from prison, I went through Project Empowerment and got a job at a rec center. A guy, the supervisor, he wanted me to stay at the rec center and work permanently, but the lady that ran the ward had different ideas. She didn't want me to - She didn't want to hire me. But my success rate, I went to the rec center and turned it around pretty much. I had an idea, treat people with respect, you get respect. That goes from kids to adults, you know, and all that. I had the kids over there, not cursing, not fighting each other when they came to the rec center. If they cursed around me they had to drop down and give me five pushups. They see me cursing like a dollar sign and I had to give it to them. Respect is respect. I bought all the candy for a little Halloween party out of my pocket. So what happened? They want - They were trying to do - Trying to get me to work over there permanently, but they said that the lady who ran the ward at the time, she didn't want to hire. I was like, really?

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She didn't want to hire an ex-offender, or because you - ? I have - I don't even know the true story behind that. [unintelligible] Do you think there are enough jobs that exist that do not pay enough money or pay enough money? No, there's not enough jobs that pay enough money.

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Okay. Are there enough jobs? There are plenty in DC. There's a lot of openings somewhere in and around in DC. In order to get where you got to go, you got to go through all this stuff. So, I don't know. I don't think there's enough jobs, but I think there's - I mean, I think there's plenty of jobs, but not enough jobs that are paying a proper wage. Okay. So it's not hard to find a job, it's just a suitable job. That's what you're saying. Yeah. [Are] welfare and changes to welfare benefits are impacting homelessness in any way?

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I don't know welfare so I can't speak on that. So, how would you explain that - You touched on it a little bit earlier. But how would you describe the state of homeless shelters in in this city? What impact do they have on homelessness, really? Only been to one homeless shelter, ever. And that was at Central Union Mission. And the concept they had was pretty okay, because you go in, you go to your little Bible study, take a shower, you go to bed, you know, it was all a process. And then they had little job programs so if you had been there long enough or signed up for the job program you can work your way through [yawns, unintelligible] And I've been to other shelters. Outside of the hotel at Fairfield when they're moving you in off the streets because - And then get your own apartment. But then, at that point too there was a bunch of stuff.

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It sounds very interesting. Okay, what is your analysis of the housing programs out there that are supposed to help end homelessness? Are there any better or worse than the others? Do they help? Well, it's not - In my view it's the people that work for these programs, that if they doing their job and they're processing and standing on top of the process, then it's going to work. But like I said, a lot of places probably, they get you in then forget that you're there. I say, well they can't do but so much. They tell you, they can't do but so much. Once they get you in the door, "But we can't," "We have to do this," Well, we can't do but so much." Really? Well, how about initiating a little bit more pressure on the people that you are working for? Tell them, "these people suddenly got to do this," and "They're going through all this."

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Hmm. And this is in reference to criminal justice. How long has policing in the city impacted homelessness? Has policing policy changed in any way that affects homelessness? From what I've seen recently, I'm dealing with the homeless - Police really don't mess with the homeless too much because they kind of shut their eyes to them, but you know, but if something goes wrong, the homeless would be probably the first person they look at. A homeless person or homeless area would probably the first group of people they look at. But in reality, a lot of homeless, people don't do a lot of that stuff. Has police brutality had an impact on homelessness? [mumbling] In my vision [unintelligible] I haven't seen police brutality. They probably - No, I haven't seen it. Not personally. I don't know if it happens but I haven't seen it.

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Okay, has the war on drugs had an impact on homelessness? No. The war on drugs - Has the criminalization of poverty or homelessness been an issue in this region, you think? The what?

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Has the criminalization of poverty or homelessness been an issue in this region? It shouldn't be, but it is, because - I remember about coming up, when you were able to discipline your child and teach them, you know, the straight and the right way, it was a lot different. You didn't have a lot of this nonsense going on. A lot of killing for no reason. You didn't have a lot of that, but now because government the stepped in and told you that you can't discipline your child, I believe that that affected a whole lot of stuff in life. The criminal justice system, it affected them because it's overwhelming. It affected the homelessness because people want to get their kids and put them out the door, and kids are putting their family out of their own homes [?]. So yeah, I just think a lot of stuff came from the government. What to do, the right thing, and allowed things to function the way it was with growth at each stage in life. And to be all [mumbles]. Okay, okay. All right. So, how has the criminalization of immigration impacted -

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I have no idea. Okay. What impact do prisons have on homelessness? What's your opinion on that? It really doesn't. Prison doesn't have an impact on homelessness. Well, that's more people getting released and they don't have anywhere to go, then that impacts them because people need places to go. But that's when you come home. You can't - People are not there to help you. They're gone somewhere else and you can't do what you need to do. So it takes you away from your family. Then when you come back, a lot of times family is not there or they're not willing to help you. That's what you're saying. Okay. So how - In what ways are people impacted by criminal records, do you think? Today.

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It depends on the nature of their crimes now that people are [mumbles]. I know when I came out I got a job instantly. And I [unintelligible] But the record didn't mean anything. My record didn't mean anything. It's just because I know how to go - A lot of people don't know how to address the person interviewing them or something like that.

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Did you have training on interviewing? I had plenty of training. It wasn't the training - I mean, it was like, when I did the interview with the guy and I told him the situation and he's like, well, you know. I had a resume, he looked at it and immediately hired me. Okay, health care. In what way does your health impact your homelessness? Because your - Because some people's health, they - I don't know. My health, I'm a diabetic, I have a lot of issues. And because I was homeless, they pulled me off the street to the hotel to generate my home faster, but I don't know about anybody else. I can't speak on that.

00:29:46.600 - 00:30:50.660

So because they knew you're diabetic and the situation, they put you in [unintelligible] I'm here because of Covid and that situation. [unintelligible] was accessible to die quicker and would have got covid. Okay. What is the impact of existing mental health and substance abuse programs on homelessness in the region? Have those gotten any better or worse over time? Mental health programs or medical programs? Mental health programs are - A lot of programs are coming out and they're trying to grab people to help with mental health problems. So that's getting better. People just don't want to do it, they don't trust people.

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They don't trust because of what? Their mental state, or - Okay. All right. Education. Do you think access to education, quality education, has an impact on homelessness? No. I mean, education, it has an impact, but not - A lot of people, a lot of homeless people are very intelligent. It's not about - It's just the situation that drives them to this - to where they have to - this point in their life. A lot of homeless people are rich in the spirit of [unintelligible] and education. A lot of homeless people had good jobs and just situations occurred that put them in the situation. Education, A lot of people, some homeless, need to go back and get education. But a lot of them are very smart.

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Okay. Has physical or domestic violence affected you? Have they had an impact on you, on the homeless? Um - Within the homeless community. Well, most homeless communities are people that know each other and they unify in that area. So sometimes little issues take place, but that's not - That's in any profession, any neighborhood, regardless if you're homeless or not.

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Okay. So the violence on the street doesn't really affect the homeless. Not personally, unless it's something that happened between - [mumbling] I don't think it does. It's not a factor. So you're saying they're pretty tight and they look out for each other. We try to.

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Yeah, okay. All right. And what's your current situation? I'm getting an apartment. You're having a problem. I'm getting - I'm going to - I'm going to do it but I still have issues with myself that I deal with.

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Okay, we're getting near. A couple more [questions]. Visions for a better future. If you could help build a better world, what would that world look like? A better world. How would it look like? The understanding of equality. Everybody in my world would understand you're no better than the next person, even if you have more than them. But you're not better than them. Everybody will be equal. You're equal in the eyes of God, so why not be equal in the eyes of man?

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Great answer. Okay, what would a community ideally be like that you would want to live in? Quiet. When you come home, your home is your castle. So nothing outside your home is interfering with you, with your lifestyle, which you're living. It's like when you go home, the other parts of your life are done. Whatever you have going outside is over. So, your ideal community would be everybody - My ideal community is a community of love and understanding. The community I grew up in, because all of us knew each other in that area and every father and every mother, they're saying it takes a village to raise a kid, that's the neighborhood I grew up in.

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Yeah, everybody responsible for each other. And they're responsible with each other and everybody's kid around. [laughs] Okay. All right. One final question. If there was a question or questions I should have asked you? Is there a question I should have asked that I didn't, can you think of? You pretty much covered everything.

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Okay. Do you have any other ideas you would like to share? The only idea I'd like to share, y'all get on their mirror [?] and let them politicians get on top of their job. [laughs] So how do you feel about this interview and the humanities efforts? Do you think this is a good idea what we're doing? Well, you can ask questions but a lot of times, a lot of questions - [pauses] It's a good idea to find out.