00:00:01.960 - 00:00:13.350

American University and I have been helping out with this project. Um, so essentially this project is, um, trying to preserve the impact of WINS.

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And so we've been speaking with alumni, conducting oral history interviews. Um, and this is sort of the first phase of the project.

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So we're doing the interviews throughout the summer. Um, and then I will, um, pass the interviews back to Doctor Amanda Taylor, who's really heading this

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project. She's on faculty at American University. Um, and so I've been giving the

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heads up that I may not be on the project in the fall just because I'm no longer taking courses at American. I'm moving into the research phase of my stuff. So, um, if that is the case, I will connect you all with Amanda

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Taylor. Make sure that you all have, you know, next steps that are clear. Um, in terms of what this may

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result in, is, um, still to be determined. That's part of this interview process, is trying to figure out what next what next steps make the most sense. So, um, so that's generally the project.

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Um, I don't know if you have any questions for me before we get started. I do is Amanda Taylor. Is she an alum of WINS or like, what's the interest in WINS Yeah.

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So she is, um, not an alum of WINS. Um, she was working with, um, some of the, uh, people that were directly involved in WINS and so they started conversations. I was not around for that part of the project, but they started

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having conversations last semester about, um, what WINS looked like and what, um, what programming is really needed, um, moving forward or what initiatives are needed moving forward. And so that was alongside some professors, um, one of which is

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now on sabbatical, and then the other one who actually ended up leaving. So, um, they were starting those conversations.

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And so she took it on. She works for the Inclusive Excellence Office. Um, and so she really heads a lot of these initiatives. Um, so that's where the interest came from.

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It was kind of just out of conversations where, um, where people, you know, they wanted to, um, figure out kind of what happened with WINS and then how to move forward. Um, and it was, is Amy still there or is she one of the people that

00:02:11.830 - 00:02:23.310

left Amy Bijou. as far as I know, no. Um, but I but I also, um, I'm not totally sure, so I can doctor Taylor. Yeah.

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And and connect her with you as well. Yeah. Okay.

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Okay, great. Yeah. Cool. I'm very interested in when's, like, starting up, so I'm.

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I'm very whatever. Whatever I can do to be supportive. I would love to.

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Yeah. Okay. Great. Um, yeah.

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And I've been, um, you know, I have really enjoyed conducting these interviews and learning about the WINS process. I've been trying to be upfront that, like as far as what the next steps are.

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I do not know, obviously, but I'm happy to connect everyone with Doctor Taylor and see, you know, what that could look like or what options are available. Yeah.

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Okay. Great. Um, so that is that, um, if you don't have any other questions.

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For me, we've just kind of been starting with if you want to give an introduction who you are, um, and then your experience with wins, and then we can go build off from there.

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Sure. Um, my name is Francis Crevier. I'm First Nations Algonquin, and I'm the CEO for the National Council of Urban Indian Health.

00:03:14.720 - 00:03:31.520

Um, I am a WINS alum, I believe, of. 07 07 08 and maybe 2011 I did it three times. Um, I did it twice in an undergrad and once in law school.

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Um, and uh, those experiences were and I don't know if you have like, specific questions or if you just want me to talk about my experience. Um, about.

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You can just start with your experience. Yeah. And then we can jump off from there.

00:03:45.760 - 00:03:48.440

So just. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

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So, uh, as a native growing up in an urban area, um, I wanted, you know, to make sure that the work I was working on was impactful for my people. Um, and so the WINS program really

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provided that opportunity. Um, and so I when I moved to DC, you know, I learned they had so many great programs they had us meet with, like, all different native offices of all different

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organizations and all the things that they do. We got to learn, I think every Friday they had like kind of info things, they would have agencies come in. I recall even one time they had us, they always had us like attend

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hearings if there was one. But, uh, one hearing like the reps got on the official and really let him have it. And, uh, and then on Friday, that same official was at WINS doing

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like a career day, and I got to, like, ask him, hey, why didn't you advocate for us? And like, why? And he was like, that was political theater. And you didn't, you know, like, so let me understand how that works.

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And so to kind of have like the inside perspective that you just don't see outside of DC, He gave us the exposure that you get. And then a lot of natives, uh, had never lived in an urban area then. And so, like, you know, my colleagues were exposed to all

00:05:08.240 - 00:05:23.240

different kinds of people and the outside world and like, what DC does and, um, you know, and then, of course, one of my things was I had a lot of struggles growing up. And so my GPA wasn't the best, um,

00:05:23.240 - 00:05:35.360

I'm a survivor of a lot of trauma. And so WINS was, you know, allowed for 2.0, whereas, like, you'd all do, you know, 3.0, 3.5. And so it really allowed access to DC.

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And, you know, I would say at the peak it would bring in about 200 native students a year. And today some of my colleagues, you know, are white House executive directors.

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They run the Navajo Nation office. They run the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. Um, so I used to say that with

00:05:55.120 - 00:06:08.610

WINS we didn't need more Indian law attorneys because I was like, we, you know, we got a pipeline. But I now tell people without WINS pipeline, I fear the, uh, impact it will have long term on Indian

00:06:08.610 - 00:06:25.890

country because it set the stage for what I knew. Leaving D.C., I knew I had an Indian law class from WINS So I understood what was going on and it helped inform my major. I changed and I wanted I always wanted to be a lawyer, but I was

00:06:25.930 - 00:06:36.330

like scared. But it gave me the, uh, passion needed to say, okay, I have to do this and I need to move to DC and I need to make a difference.

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Um, and so I really worry about a future without when so much so that I am trying to develop an internship program internally to at least. I mean, I couldn't do 200 students, you know, I can't do

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many, but to at least mitigate that impact. But I truly worry about the future of Indian Country without the Wins program, because a lot of us are here because of it, and we would not be here without it.

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Um, including a CEO, you know. So I just, I want, I just, I, I, uh, I have nothing but positive things to say about WINS, and I want it back. No, I definitely think, um, I mean, that's certainly been shared

00:07:13.820 - 00:07:24.380

across all of the conversations I've had. So I appreciate you sharing that. I'd be curious if, you know, if there was programming, what were elements?

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I mean, you spoke to it a little bit, but what are some elements about wins that you, um, found to be most impactful? And, um, what would good programming look like for you, um, in this space? Um, so I think programming that's

00:07:37.460 - 00:07:50.340

impactful that they used to have, um, you know, they did a lot of like professional development, which I still, I think, in the remote world has reigned more true than ever because of the lack of osmosis that we have.

00:07:50.500 - 00:07:59.920

Uh, you have to say things you used to not have to say, like be at your laptop on time, You know, like, you can't just be 20 minutes late on your laptop. You know, like these.

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And so they would do like a orientation kind of like how to, you know, have your best foot forward in DC. Um, so I did think that that was

00:08:09.120 - 00:08:19.400

helpful. Um, I mean, obviously this was a long time ago, so I have a hard time remembering that. Um, I think they and then, of course, like, I think exposing

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natives to all of these agencies, all of these organizations, um, that was really helpful and eye opening to, like, all the things you can do in our world and all the ways that different partners impact.

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And, um, and just gave us exposure that I still have to this day that many people don't have. Of all the organizations and all the great work that's being done, um, from law firms to nonprofits, you know, not just agencies.

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Um, and I know winds used to only work or mostly work contracting with the agencies. And I think what I've heard from, you know, scuttlebutt was like agencies didn't find a good return

00:09:01.450 - 00:09:14.970

on investment because the students wouldn't come back. But from the student perspective, what I'll share is sometimes I had cool internships, but I'll say that my my, some of my colleagues didn't.

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My colleagues would have to like, scan and shred paperwork. So if you're not giving your intern like a fantastic opportunity.

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One of my internships was with the Fish and Wildlife Service, and I was, um, part of helping to update the Native American consultation policy. That was cool.

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Like, I could do that. I also worked with the National Archives and and it was after nine over 11. And so they had they wanted to do research on how tribes work or

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don't work with fusion centers, which are centers that now all the data, you know, law enforcement data, whatever is shared. Um, so I did really cool work, but I felt like I was one of the only ones doing really cool work.

00:10:00.790 - 00:10:12.230

You know, a lot of people were doing shredding documents, and so that's not exactly going to get you an employee, you know, um, if you're like, I'm going to shred documents for good luck shredding documents for eight weeks.

00:10:12.230 - 00:10:21.590

I hope you stay. Um, so if there's guidance. So if they did it again, maybe potential guidance or work plan structures.

00:10:21.630 - 00:10:31.230

Um, we do work with, uh, the CDC Foundation. The CDC is now they are not letting interns do remote, so let interns do remote, potentially,

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because not letting interns do remote means that because if our office is is fully remote, you can't work. Right. So it's just, you know, so

00:10:40.470 - 00:10:54.730

allowing that would be important. And, um, but one of the things that we found, uh, with the CDC Foundation or, or CDC is they make intern you, they make the employer do work plans so they know that

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they're doing substantial work. They're not allowed to do intern, you know, like admin busywork. Um, and I think that could be

00:11:03.050 - 00:11:20.090

potentially more helpful in terms of programming. Um, and then I heard it was really expensive, uh, for a PhD, but, um, but so and they, I was told it was $40,000. So for me, if I couldn't pay $40,000 for an intern for eight

00:11:20.090 - 00:11:28.370

weeks, you know, when you pay 70, 80,000, you get a full time employee, you know? Um, so I know it was a lot to run the program. I don't know, you know, if there

00:11:28.410 - 00:11:34.610

are things for that. But I know that that was one of the things I don't even know what the answer, the question it was anymore.

00:11:34.610 - 00:11:47.410

I'm just rambling. Sorry. No, no, this is all super helpful. Um, and yeah, I would, so I would love to hear more about your, um,

00:11:47.570 - 00:11:59.180

how this influenced your professional path from like point A to point B, um, to where you ended up now and then. Also, personally, I know a lot of people have spoken about sort of the relationships that have been built through wins.

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Um, and so, yeah, we'd love to hear about that as well. Sure. Um, so, um, how it impacted me professionally? Well, it gave me access to Indian

00:12:08.500 - 00:12:20.460

law and all the things I could do with it. And so that put me on the path to change my major from architecture, which I was doing terrible at, um, to public administration and start on my law degree.

00:12:20.460 - 00:12:36.060

And I did, um, the because I had that network, they showed, um, wins shared with me the Graduate Horizons program, which is a program for native students that want to go to graduate school.

00:12:36.460 - 00:12:45.460

So I was able to get a full ride to that program. And you meet with recruiters from Harvard and Yale and all the best people, and they review your

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application and your personal statement, and they help you set up for getting trying to get into law school. Um, so without wins, I wouldn't even have had access to that program.

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And so that helped me get access to the Pre-Law Pre-Law Summer Institute program, which is a pre-law program for native students, eight weeks at UNM University of New Mexico.

00:13:09.480 - 00:13:21.880

Um, and that helped me. I was going to go to law school and have to pay for it. That helped me get a full scholarship to the University of Arizona, um, during that law program.

00:13:21.880 - 00:13:36.400

So had it not been for wins, I wouldn't have gotten any of that. On top of that, I was so poor I couldn't afford an Lsat prep course, and I was at a wins barbecue. And one of the wins board of directors, who was a law firm,

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whatever. I was like, oh yeah, I want to take an Lsat class. I can't afford it.

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It's $1,000. Well, they sponsored me. Um, so they really, I mean, get getting into wins opened up a lot of access to me elsewhere that should rejected my career, that I

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wouldn't have. I wouldn't have gone to U of A if it wasn't for that. I wouldn't have had a full

00:13:58.130 - 00:14:10.090

scholarship if it wasn't for that. Um, so it definitely exposed me, but it gave me the purpose or focus to come back to DC and change law.

00:14:10.090 - 00:14:20.970

And so it helped me know what I was going to do, do it, and then come back and figure out how to do it. Um, so I would not ever be where I

00:14:20.970 - 00:14:33.810

am today without wins. Point blank period. I may not have even been a lawyer, let alone, you know, here. Um, personally, yeah, I still talk to many of the wins, folks.

00:14:33.810 - 00:14:44.850

I, you know, we, um, you know, I think I know you interviewed Xavier because he reached out to me to make sure that I was interviewed. Um, he, you know, we have been

00:14:44.850 - 00:14:52.070

friends forever, um, since wins. Um, but a lot. You know, the white House executive director on native education.

00:14:52.070 - 00:15:01.380

She was a colleague of mine. You know, we still talk all the time. So we do. You know, I still see at least 6

00:15:01.380 - 00:15:15.310

or 8 wins colleagues on a regular basis. Um, and so, yeah, we have created lifelong friendships. And through those programs, like even people that you haven't seen in a long time, you know, they still follow you, they still

00:15:15.310 - 00:15:24.110

connect with you. And so, like, I saw somebody from wins, uh, a few months ago that I haven't seen since wins, you know, and they're like, oh, I follow you.

00:15:24.110 - 00:15:32.470

And so great. And let's connect because now they work for the Navajo Nation DC office, you know, so they know. And so it's like, you know, it's all a good it's such a great

00:15:32.470 - 00:15:48.390

network, um, to have and and not just like network for the network sake, but for the colleagues, the friends. You know, we go through stuff together and we have each other so and funny enough, like Xavier and I, like we were applying for the

00:15:48.390 - 00:15:57.240

same job and like, he was walking out and I was walking in and so I was like, wow. Wins is literally like the inventory, you know, like it's us.

00:15:57.320 - 00:16:11.840

Um, and so I fear with because some people when I interned were afraid of their lives, like had never seen a metro, had never seen anything. And so I just, I so worry about.

00:16:12.080 - 00:16:18.720

Yeah. Not getting those 200 students every year. What is that going to look like? Is that going to drain that pipeline? I know we don't like to use word

00:16:18.720 - 00:16:25.720

pipeline, but for the purposes of this, you know, drain it and then we don't have anything in the future. Mhm. Yeah.

00:16:25.760 - 00:16:40.640

No that's um important, an important consideration I think that um, it's been really fabulous to see across the interviews, just the various, um, lived experiences and, but the shared sentiment that like winds created this huge impact in a lot of different ways

00:16:40.640 - 00:16:49.690

for people. So, um, appreciate you sharing. I, I just have a couple closing questions. Um, and they're pretty broad, so feel free to take them in whatever

00:16:49.690 - 00:16:54.570

direction you want. Um, and I'll lump them together. So it would be. Is there anything I didn't ask

00:16:54.570 - 00:17:03.290

that you think is important to share? And then what do you think the most important thing is for us to know? Walking away from, um, this conversation and moving forward with this project.

00:17:06.810 - 00:17:24.850

I really want to be thoughtful about that because I. I really love this program. Um. Um. Well, so I guess if you did do the program again, um, I would say

00:17:24.890 - 00:17:41.210

potentially to add, um. Like access to counseling services or, um, I know some folks had substance use issues. Um, and so there was no resources for that back then.

00:17:41.330 - 00:17:55.910

Um, you know, you just find people peeing in their closet at 2:00 in the morning, um, which, you know, college, whatever, but, um, you know, that could potentially be helpful in the future. Um, and then what was the other question you asked?

00:17:57.470 - 00:18:05.390

So it would be, uh, anything I didn't ask, you think is important to share. And then most important thing to know, walking away from this conversation and moving forward

00:18:05.390 - 00:18:18.590

with conversations and interviews. Oh, um, there are a million of us interested in helping support this. So if there's any if American is interested in reopening it or

00:18:18.590 - 00:18:28.030

anything like that, and they need a steering committee, I'm happy to be on it. Um, I'm happy I those of us who have gotten so much from it, we know the impacts.

00:18:28.030 - 00:18:36.870

And so I just I guess if American can do anything to open it back, please do. And anything they anything we can do to help, please reach out.

00:18:36.990 - 00:18:44.070

Um, it is so needed. And every year that we don't have it, I just. I'm scared. I'm scared about what it means,

00:18:44.110 - 00:18:51.250

you know? Yeah. Um. Well, thank you so much. This has been wonderful. I know you have a busy schedule, and so.

00:18:51.290 - 00:18:59.250

And I know winds means a lot to you, so I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with me. Um, I will follow up. We're kind of closing out interviews now, so I'll follow up

00:18:59.250 - 00:19:05.650

once the interviews are wrapped. And, um, make sure that everyone we spoke to is understanding sort of what the next steps may look like.

00:19:05.890 - 00:19:09.930

Um, and getting you connected to Doctor Taylor and everything. But if you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to reach out.

00:19:10.210 - 00:19:17.330

Are you talking to Naomi McGill by chance? Uh, yes. I actually already spoke to Naomi. Yeah.

00:19:17.330 - 00:19:22.090

So, um. Yeah. So we've been connecting on email and stuff and then spoke a little bit, so.

00:19:22.170 - 00:19:24.410

But yes. Yeah. Okay. She's the white House person.

00:19:24.410 - 00:19:29.610

I'm talking about that we graduated together. So that's why I was like, she's over there. Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:29.610 - 00:19:35.130

And if you think of anyone else, feel free to, um, feel free to let me know. I'm happy to talk to anyone that's willing to talk.

00:19:35.130 - 00:19:39.890

So. Well, thank you so much for doing this. It really is going to go a far way in Indian country.

00:19:39.890 - 00:19:45.330

So really appreciate you, Beth. Yeah. Well, thank you for participating. And, um, we'll I'll definitely be in touch.

00:19:45.370 - 00:19:47.450

All right. Take care. All right. Thanks.