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All right. Hello today. It is December 11th, 2019. And this is an interview of Professor Howard, Fuller by Sierra Solomon. For the Malcolm X Meridian. Hill Park oral history. Project recorded via Zoom conference call at American universities Humanities truck office. And I am here with a professor Fuller. Thank you again, for agreeing to speak with me today. I really appreciate it. So, before we get started, I just want to make sure do I have permission to record this interview today? Yes, awesome. And can you share with me a brief introduction of who you are in terms of your experience or your history with Malcolm X Meridian Hill Park? Sure. So, first of all, thanks a lot for inviting me to talk about this. I don't know, you know, they'll have a lot to add but but I'll, you know, tell you as much as I recall, you know, and hopefully it'll be useful to you. So, right now I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I'm actually sitting in a charter school that I helped found 15 years ago and they just rename the school after me last year, which was really like a great honor but I just consider it a part of my life's work, always trying to figure out, how do we Empower our people to, to get greater control over their lives and obviously, you know back in the day when I was involved with African Russian war that was clearly up a the focus of what this was all about writer's about, you know, African people gaining control over their own countries and so we were honored to support the Liberation efforts that were going on in southern Africa at that time not just southern Africa would also In East Africa or at least you know, when we were talking about guinea-bissau. So I don't really know what, what questions you have. I don't want to ramble. I want to talk about things that you want information about and stay focused on that. Okay, awesome. Well, thank you. Just also wanted to ask, so are you I know you're not in Washington right now, but Milwaukee your Milwaukee? Are you a native to? Are you a native Washingtonian of for the record? Or did you live in Washington at some point in time? Or was it okay go? Actually, I was born in Louisiana, right? And when I was six my mother brought me to Milwaukee and so I actually grew up in Milwaukee and I spent all of my life and walk away except for the ten years that I was in North

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Carolina, got it, got it. Well and also when I went to graduate school in Cleveland, okay so but so will walkie is is home. So so from Ohio of Cleveland to Milwaukee. North Carolina. What moments brought you to d.c.? I've been at this a lot of times in my life,

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I guess I should reframe what? What? What moments brought you to Malcolm X Meridian Hill Park. All right. So what happened was in 1971, I was invited over to Tanzania to give a speech on black education, there was that there was a group of Of ministers who were going on this trip to Dar Salam. And I was asked, to come along and like I said to give a speech on black education, but prior to that, I was on the board of an organization called inter religious foundation for Community organization, and back. During that time under voice Turner, who was the prime minister of South Africa, they had a program called, I forgot what they call. But it was to invite prominent African-Americans, to come to South Africa, to see that apart. I really wasn't so bad and so Amanda lucious. Walker revolutions Walker. Was the head of if co-leader religious Foundation Community organization and I was on the board and so loo got an invitation from boy stur to come to South Africa. They were invited. Being, you know, like people who are heads of various organizations, you know, I think invited Muhammad Ali and they were trying to get prominent African-Americans to come to South Africa and you know, in Barstow was going to show them. All apartheid is really not so bad. So, when Luke got the invitation, I'll add effort on the board. Not only that, you shouldn't go, but that what we should do is to establish a Raishin, fund, to support the Liberation movements in southern Africa. And so we ended up having a press conference at the United Nations to establish this fun. So when I went over to DAR in 1971, them 71 or 72, people knew me or they knew they knew about the effort to support Liberation movements. Plus there were African-Americans. Some of whom had left the United States, under difficult, circumstances, living in dogs survive. So what? So when I got the door, like I said, people know me, then, you know, Howard Fuller. They knew my they know me by my African name Rusev out there at that time. Would you prefer that? I sorry. Do you prefer that? I addressed you as I was saying it's like, okay, whatever, whatever works. So when I got there in addition to giving the speech meetings were set up for me with the heads of all of The Liberation movements that had offices in Dar es Salaam Tanzania and one of the group's was for lame-o the front for the liberation of Mozambique. And so when I met with them, what happened was there was a Film crew to dudes from United States, Bob Fletcher, and Robert Van leer Europe, who were who were going to go into the liberated territories of Mozambique to film The Liberation struggle. And it was supposed to be a dude from I think Algerian a boubacar cameras name of Carlo can remember now but in any event for some reason he was not able to come. So when I met with for Lima, oh, they are Ask me if I would be interested in taking his place and going into the liberated territories. In Mozambique, all of this stuff is in my book. No struggle, no progress and so so obviously that was the opportunity of a lifetime. The only thing was I couldn't tell anybody that I was leaving. So I was with this group of people, you know, doing the speech and being there. And all of a sudden I literally dropped off of the face of the Earth because they picked me up early the next morning and draw me into the interior of Tanzania. And then we took the trip through the interior to the banks of the river Boomer river which separated Mozambique from Tanzania. So you could, you know, stand on the room, boom the river and you can see Mozambique and sort of way that the guerrillas were You know, operating was they had, they had a base camp like on the Tanzania side of the room wherever and so we cross the river and, you know, I was supposed to be in there like, for two weeks. And and so what we would do is we would get up every morning and we will March, you know, from one area to another and so, It was it was a fascinating experience. Obviously I actually kept a diary and of every day that I was in there because I ended up being in there 31 days and the reason I ended up being there 31 days is because we were attacked by the Portuguese while I was in there and so we could we could get out and you know I remember that day that we were attacked. Obviously Beverly Hills I described it in again, as I said, in my diary and in my book. And so after I got out, it was really interesting because my family and everybody back home thought I was dead because I sort of dropped off of the face of the Earth. Nobody knew where I was. And then all of a sudden I reappear 31 days later. And so when I got back to United States, what I decided to do Do was to organize, a demonstration to support the Liberation movements in southern Africa. And so I call a meeting at Malcolm X degrees University, which I founded in 1969, and I brought together and, you know, like people like a mirror Baraka Gene Locke, Joe Waller Cleves sellers, I think Ron Daniels on the Run, was at that meeting, but he became critical to all but in any event sock, all these people together and I said, look, we need to organize a demonstration and, you know, my goal was, that was to have the demonstration, be the closest to the date, that the oau had set up and called it African rationed, a and I think was May 25th, but we decided to do it on May 27th because that was a Saturday, but it was closed as As possible to the May 25th day then so I just saw going all around the country and you know, also went to Canada. I went to some places in the Caribbean to organize this African Liberation baby demonstration and there were a lot of people who, you know, have been pan-africanist and have been holding the banner for a long time. You know, they were like, who the hell are you? No. You can't do this whatever. And I was, you know, I was like your revered enough, not the really care. You know what people say, Which is the same today. So, you know, you know, we did it. I actually have a a, when I say we did it, we created an African Liberation day Coordinating Committee and I actually have the stationary with all of the people's names on it, who are part of that African Liberation day Coordinating Committee. It was an interesting group of people. Angela Davis karenga. I think Jesse might be on there Walter fauntroy Congressman digs. It was a group that you, that people didn't think you could really get them together to do anything. And when I first got started, know people said, oh, nobody's going to come, and it's just gonna be a failure missing that. And we ended up with probably around 30 or 40,000 people who marched that day, And We Gather at the park and this is this was my first sort of relation on a relationship and not first thing about the park and I didn't know anything about the other than as we were planning for the demonstration. People say we should gather at the park and so when we gathered at the park for that day, we renamed it. Malcolm X Park. Okay? It wasn't official or anything that came later. So we just sort of bootlegs and and name the park Malcolm X park. Instead of Meridian part is. So so there is a video of the demonstration and you can actually see it if you go on my website. There's a there's a video and it shows us leaving the park. Doing the March because the way was set it up. Is that we stop at different embassies along the way. Hmm. And did, we ended up with the, with this rally at, at the Washington, Monument? And we rename that area that day, lumumba park. Mmm. So, so we March from renamed Malcolm X, bar to all of these embassies and then we ended up, The Washington Monument which we renamed for that day. That's

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it. That's pretty awesome. So was this the very first African Liberation day? Because I know there's there's a lot of ald for four decades. So was this, the and in various places, you know, Philly New York Ghana, was this? The, the very first one, or one of the first, you know what, I really don't, I really don't know the answer to that and the reason why I'm not clear about that, is because once we got into this, there were people who said, you know, we've been doing this, you know, for years, and I don't know what, and I literally didn't know anything about it, and I wasn't trying to like, you know, take over anybody. Stangerson, how you doing? Wallet. And so I think we can safely say that this was the largest gathering. In fact in the video. They talk about it as the largest gathering of black people since Marcus Garvey. Wow and there's a there's a clip in the video If you go look at it and that that shows Marcus Garvey marching. There's also some pretty sure it was definitely the largest just one that had ever occurred in the United States and then in 1973 we decided instead of coming back to Washington, what we did was organize demonstrations in cities all around the country and we raised 50,000 dollars that we took over to Africa and gave it to the various Liberation movements So the way that we organize that was we created the first thing we created was the African liberation of a Coordinating Committee that's the station or that I'm talking about and it was under that Banner that we organized on May 27 1972. Then in 1973 what we did was we created an ongoing committee called the African Liberation support commit and this African Liberation support committee have chapters As in different cities around the country but at a certain point in time as a lot of stuff, there was a ideological war that went on that split us and it was essentially Marxism versus nationalism. And so there were people like myself who are coming at it, from more like a Marxist standpoint and there were people who were, you know, strictly Nationalist. And so that line struggle, like broke us up you know, after Rid of about two or three years and so I know for sure that Stokely or Kwame, ture the African peoples party. I think, picked up continuing African Liberation day, mmm, but I wasn't really engaged this. I really don't know very much about that, but I do know that there were a number of celebrations and they had those celebrations and Malcolm X part. This wouldn't is what I remember. And and then I know it's At some point in time, there was an effort to officially renamed the part Malcolm X bar. I think that's accurate. I wasn't involved with that, but I do think that that's what happened.

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Was Stokely Carmichael Kwame. Toure, was he involved in the planning for the 1972 and will be. It's really interesting because I wish I could which was stupid but at the time Kwame was Guinea, actually. Okay, he wrote me this long letter telling me all, this was the wrong time and nobody was gonna call them. And, you know, so it'll cause a lot of people didn't think anybody was gonna call right. There were like, and particularly the, you know, Queen Mother more long, bob great deal on babe, right. A lot of people from New York who starved themselves as the holders of pan-africanism, right? Because they've been at it, you know, for so long and it. Who are you? We never heard of you. And I was like, well, I know early all isn't so but but you know, so again like I said there were a lot of differences of opinion but then what's 30,000 people showed up everybody wanted to speak. So it was it was, it was interesting. Some of the battles that would all backstage that people never, you know about, because there were all these people who were telling me this is never gonna happen. Yeah. Once they got there and they were, like, amazed that everybody wanted to be up there talking prank. And we, you know, we had plan a program, right? Stuck to pretty pretty, You know, religiously I guess although we did loved one through speak because it just got to be too much backstage. And I felt like it wasn't worth any way up here, talking about Unity. So what were how did you manage all of that? Especially like the day of with so many very bold voices that you worked with, you know, dealing with the planning. And then again the day of 30,000 people backstage, everyone wants to be heard. How did you manage all of that? I don't know. Well, you know, like so we had we had the African Liberation. Yeah. They're Coordinating Committee, right? And then, we had like a Central Committee or a staff like leave sellers Florence tape, a member of Amiri Baraka had centered person and so there was about seven of us that were like the staff. Okay. And so we open up an office, interesting. From 14 and you so welcome back there now. It's like huh. It wasn't like that. I've been right? And so we had that office there. We walked out of that office and we did it. I mean, we, you know, we put together a program, you know, we decided on which embassies we were going to stop at at each Embassy. We have speakers. You'll see some of that on the video and then we had the speakers. He's at the at the mask, massive rally. And what's really interesting is when you look at the speaker's, I wanted to speakers, for example, was Elaine Brown. Yeah. For the Panther party and that was a notable achievement because this was right after it wasn't long, after the panther party members were shot and killed at UCLA. So, there was this huge tension between karenga and the panther party because of Of what happened at UCLA and if so to get both karenga and Angela Davis and I think Huey Newton may be on there too to have all of the have all those people be a part of this African Liberation day Coordinating Committee. Even though all of this tension was going on was was pretty I mean, we, you know, we actually did a good job of bringing that all together. So when we were trying to like determine who the speakers were going to be, you know, we had to negotiate all of the different factions that wanted to speak and so one way that we did, that was by having these stops at the different embassies and letting people speak

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there. Ah, and so that was one way that we did it to get a whole bunch of people. Speaking of yeah, was what's the You know that people speak at the embassies, and then when we got to the main stage, you know, I know Congressman dicks. All km long by spoke. I know I ended it. I brought it to a close, but we had a number of like the rocker spoke Elaine Brown spoke at the, at the big rally, but people like Doug more, you know, from BC spoke at the South African Embassy. I think. Dick spoke I think Walter fauntroy spoke. So, you know, it was I mean, we did it, you know, it had its moments and I think one of the things that may have helped was I, you know, I really was just trying to get it done, you know? I didn't have no, I don't have a big ego investigator anything. And so to me, it was just about doing the right thing for our people, doing it in a way that was powerful and we did it. So, you know, you not being a native of the DMV area, what who or what was the deciding factors to say? Let's have it, let's have it at Malcolm X Park, you know, because there's various places in d.c. like I'm okay has been in shock. There's Anacostia is a lot of other areas what made mock Max Parker, Meridien Hill Park the place that your committee decided we need to have a LD here, honestly don't know. I'm sure it was the people like floor state from DC.

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Got it, made that decision. So there must have been a history to Meridian Park that I didn't know anything about but that the pick the people from DC who were part of the Has enough for, you know, clearly had knowledge of that that I didn't have, okay? Also I noticed them, you mentioned. Angela Davis is also part of the committee, so why don't you was in jail at the time

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actually? Okay, so what was so in our research for this project, one of the big things that have come up, is that it's a conversation. Of where did the name Malcolm X Park come from? A lot of press credits, Angela Davis for coining that and then there's a lot of folks who are saying that was way before. Angela Davis you're here what wasn't Angela Davis? Decided to rename the park Malcolm X part for bad day. I don't know if somebody had that idea before then, but I know when we went, when we decided on that park, it was not called Malcolm X bar in 1972, right? On May 27. We did that. And then, I think they're after people begin to As Malcolm X bar. And again, I don't have any real knowledge of this but I do have friends that are still, you know, with us who are DC government, okay. And I know that at some point in time and I mean, you could tell me there's some somebody made a decision to try to officially renamed the park, Malcolm X bar. Yeah there's definitely been some more formal request for that. But one of the issues is that there's a Buchanan's as monument in the park. And so it's analyst or excite and they believe that because of that the name can't be changed but it's a big debate still for at least the last two decades, for sure has been a big push in the community. I know, I know that there's some people who after that day, never refer to it as Meridian Park. They always refer to it as Malcolm X Martin. That's why I actually thought it had been officially renamed never heard anybody refer to, but

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it's there. Were you at all involved with any of the other part? Like there's a Malcolm X Park in Philly and there's Malcolm X parks and everywhere. Okay, for the day of African Liberation day in 1972, 30,000 people, huge prominent speakers there. What was The trying to figure out the word kind of surveillance, like of the of the event was, how was it monitored? Was it monitored closely by local forcement Federal enforcement? I think both, I mean, I mean, obviously, we have to get permits and all this, right, right. The police were there and I know when I, when I asked for my f, Bi file. You know, and I got it, but it was so redacted. That knew it was difficult. It was difficult to read it because every other sentence was redacted and I think I think a part of that was the try to hide who was really the

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police because, you know, if you win a meeting with three or four people and you knew you weren't the police somebody in there. And so the way that they redacted, the stuff you couldn't really tell. So there was clearly surveillance of the demonstration, but I, you know what? I honestly never paid any attention to that because my assumption was, how you know what? Let me just do what we got to do. Whatever happens happens because I feel like if you spend a whole bunch of time you know worried about Surveillance and they win anyway cuz you ain't going to do nothing. So, when you say that it was redacted, do you believe that they had on people who are undercover during the event without a do? Okay. Okay. I think that there were people who were working with the government involved, in everything that we were doing. But I've never tried to figure out who they were because that that to me gets to be one of those things where you start sowing doubt measure, you know, and and when you do that they win because you don't you're paralyzed in a certain sense, right? Yeah. So my assumption always was yeah they're they're looking at or they got somebody but so

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absolutely. So with all you know, You said that, you know, there was that going on and then you also had a lot of, you know, ideological differences. How, how were you all men able to, kind of Unify our bring everyone's voices together for this day. Well, there was always like issues even that day. For example, I remember I remember being in a meeting because I was the one who literally was Going all over the country non-stop. I mean, I was literally of a good home, drop my bags changed my clothes, get back out there. It was that it was that kind of intensity right to to get this thing organized and I remember one night it was an all-night meeting. Actually, we had a lot of those in Chicago and the issue was the number of The leaders of Liberation movements who were married to white women and, and for, for some of our brothers and sisters that was like issue, right? And I'm trying to I've ever been in. That me like look, bad, we're talking about the liberation of a people, right? Y'all, are you talking about, who's I mean II mean I got it. I mean, I understood and blah, blah blah. And for some people that was I cannot participate because you know they're married to Europeans. I was like, man. Look people, people are fighting to liberate our people and you're going to tell me that you're not gonna participate because the leader is married to a white woman. Let's argue that later. Let's not argue that. After we're free, people are free. There's all kinds of arguments. We can have, but I just don't see. But that was some of the kinds of things that we had to deal with in Shinto. You know, differences of opinion again about nationalism versus Marxism class because the crew had come out with this book class struggle, and Africa and so people like Kwame ture were pushing, you know, this notion of a class struggle and for a lot of brothers and sisters that was like, you know, a white ideology. So so, you know, so you had all of those things going on, you had the arguments Between the, the Panthers and Angela and the folks out in California. So, for example, of way that we got, Angela Davis to agree was Howard Moore was her attorney and he was involved with Snick. And because of people like Leo, Sellers and others, we were able to get to her even though she was in prison then and get her to agree. But that was no small task. Given the the read it was it was heated obviously between the Panthers in us, you know, United slaves because of that killing over at UCLA. So you had you had all these different things going on. You have people because prior to African Liberation day, there was the the the meeting and Gary organized by Congress of African people with With Amiri Baraka and it was, you know, it was a lot of tension because we were taking a position against Israel and in all men of Israel, South Africa, and the United States, what was called The Iron Triangle back then, in terms of the oppression of black people. So, there were a lot of people there who were concerned that we had a anti-israeli position, which they translated into being, Transfer gutter. So yeah, you know so you just imagine, you know, all these different things going on and my job was to say. Yeah, yeah, I hear you but you know, we're still going to pull off this demonstration. We need you. And we need you. And we need you. And you can be mad and blah, blah, blah. But I still need you to come to the demonstration. So you were like the unifier like bringing everyone back to. Yeah, that was that was my job was to stay focused on the mission. What was going

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on? Awesome, awesome. So, what went into the consideration of the lineup? I know you mentioned the planning of having certain folks speak at different embassies. But once you actually got to the event, what was the process like for planning the lineup? And, and you being the very last person to bring it all home? Well, you know, obviously before we And by the time the day came around everything was organized and we had, we knew who was speaking. We're and we knew that we might have some issues and so we were flexible as they look at. This thing's going to blow up. We can always allow for another person to speak. You know, saying like yeah. So so so my job on that day it was to make sure that all of this stuff happened. Right? And but but obviously we have all kinds of people who were Ball really like people were assigned responsibility. You can just imagine if you put a demonstration that large together, you stopping at different sites. Somebody was in charge of each site. It was their job to make sure that the logistics were straight. That the speakers and that we moved in an efficient manner at certain times. So, you know, it was a it was a you call it, like, An organizing tasks, right. It was, but it wasn't like this is rocket science, or you can you could figure it out, right? You just have to get people to do what they're supposed to do and then to know that stuff is going to go wrong. Yeah, no matter how well you plan it so to have a contingency in case things went wrong and different people were empowered to make certain decisions. But at the end of The day on that day, certain decisions, you know, I made the call. Hmm so that was pretty much how it went Okay, so can you talk a little bit more about the effects after the ald? And how that kind of changed things for the movement? How that changed things in in for you personally especially in regards to your own activism that you do for Education reform and civil rights? How did that kind of was? Is it like a catalyst for you or how did it play a role? That's a that's an interesting question and I really don't know that I have a good answer. I mean I don't the problem is, Sort of the way that I view my life. I honestly don't think a lot about the past like right now, I'm at our school. This 311 Young black children here in our school that we have a responsibility to educate and that I have a responsibility to make sure they have the resources that they need in order for our school to exist. And so, like yesterday, I was giving a speech in front of 1,000 people in st. Louis, but today, I'm with 311 black kids and and so for me, I'm like focused on the present, right? Write it and to be honest with you and I'm not trying to duck your question. I just don't I really don't know how to answer it, okay. But what I would say to you is that if there's any one thing that I've done in my life but that I think Had a massive impact. It would be spending 31 days in Mozambique. I mean that changed everything for me. You cannot as you you go speak on college campuses is I was in a lot of and everybody's talking about Revolution business hat. but it's all Theory, but What will you when you with a group of people who decided to pick up arms to liberate themselves from an oppressor and is not theory is it's like actual and you right there with them, right? And and when those helicopters swoop down over us, And we're shooting machine gun fire and the bombers were dropping bombs and the soldiers were trying to encircle us and we had a breakthrough. What I'm saying to you is that it has an impact on you that never leaves, right? Because It wasn't a theoretical experience to Revolution. It was an actual experience. And so I've had, I've been fortunate to have so many experiences in my life and work with so many phenomenal people. And all kinds of different levels. Like, for example, this movie that the woman from Empire I can never remember her name. Okay. And it's about a book best of enemies. And it's about a woman named Ann at water and she played in that water in this movie. Well, I'm the one who knocked on at Waters door as a poverty worker and turned her into organize their trainer. Right. So, when they did a movie, About and it was it was just interesting, right? A lot of people call me who's playing you blah blah blah. I don't think I've ever mentioned me and and so it's things like that that people know about I know about. But to me it's just it's just all a part of sort of like a Continuum of struggle. And, and, and I've been called all kinds of things like revolutionary anti-revolutionary militant, Tula, Billionaire's, radical. And, and I'm always asking how does one lone black man. Get to be offered his and I think what it is, is I just refuse to allow people to Define me and I have a clear understanding at least in my own mind about the difference between

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principal and strategy and tactics. And so for what, some people would view as an issue of principle for me, it's an issue of strategy and tactics. And and I understand that if you see something as a principal view, I'm looking at it as strategy and tactics. And I do something, but it's a violation of your principle. Then I can understand why you're going to call me all kinds of names, but that's your problem. That's not, that's not about and so that's sort of how I try to live my life. So kind of moving more into you, the education reform, how did you get involved with with that movement? And you could, if you can talk a little bit more about Malcolm X Liberation University. Yes. So, the way that Malcolm X Liberation diversity happened was I was working for the North Carolina's fun which was a Statewide poverty organization and I had decided Dial was going to. Train black college students to do community organizing in the 11 counties in North Carolina that I was responsible for. So, I went to NCC, North Carolina, college, well, as work on College, then what is now? North Carolina, Central University Federal stay, Elizabeth City, North Carolina A&T, Also went to colleges like Duke and Wake Forest human. See and I recruited black students. To work with me during the summer. And so we took him to a place called bricks and one week of intensive training that we put them out in communities to do, you know, issue oriented Community organizers. So what a couple of this students who are part of that effort more students at Duke University and so when they went back to do after that summer they began to make a demand for Afro-American studies for him. And that led to them, taking over the Allen building, which was the administration building is that just because there was just the 50-year reunions of that earlier this year, which was kind of strange, but you expect the year like that. But so they took over the building. I was in a building with them. Help them figure out how to get out of the building without getting arrested and whole bunch of things. But, anyway, all of that led to us saying we need to create our own University and and they had when they took over the administration building, they had named the building Malcolm X building. And so what we decided to do was to create Malcolm X Liberation or stir, so there's a book out there called. We are an African people actually that that talks about a number of different schools that got created. And at that point in time, Malcolm X and racial diversity, the center for black education would be see the Marcus Garvey Institute in Youngstown, Ohio, The pan-african Works in up and was called in Atlanta. So through a number of different Chad school in Newark, a lot of these quote independent black institutions that got created like during that period and it was actually a network that Pull together of these schools. And this book, we are an African people talks about these schools because it's it's a part of history that this is not much written about or or known about just like the African Liberation stuff. So yeah, so that's so that's how Malcolm X the Braves University. God created and it lasted for four years and it broke up because of the Lions. Struggle that was exemplified by African the by African Liberation support committee. You know, because initially we were, we were founded to train people, to send them to Africa to help with quote nation-building. But then the issue became a, what about, what about? Black Sheep United States? Because when I went to Africa, one of the things I think was in 1973 because in 1974 was When I spoke out the six paths in Congress, but the 1973, when we took the money over, we actually visited with secretary in Guinea and secretary was made the argument to us that we really don't need. You all to come to Africa. What we need you to do is to pressure the United States to change their policies for us out. So you know, I've never really talked a lot about that but these were some of the things that we're going on. And and so the question and was, what do we do with Malcolm X? A great University Service still people? Who said, I you know, I I don't want to involve and fight here. I want to go to Africa and and so it just got to a point where it didn't make sense to sustained the university. So does that's What

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happened? What is the significance of naming? It Malcolm X? I know during that time that, you know, you have Malcolm X Park. You have vocal even Malcolm X day. We have a lot of Institutions that use Malcolm X in the name in from your perspective. Why is that? Why was there such a push for renaming things or calling Ian's Malcolm X. During that time, I think it was the respect that we have for Malcolm X. I mean, I was on April 5, never get this day, right? And it was April 5th, April 19. 64. I was in Cory Methodist Church when Malcolm X gave The Ballot or The Bullet speech. Wow. Loretta. I was there. And I walked into that church. One kind of black man and walked out another because of Malcolm X and that speech. And honestly, it's one of the reasons why even when I speak today. I try to treat every speech with respect in a certain way because I know what one speech did for me, it changed my entire life. As I know that you may not know it but somebody may hear your words and it changes the trajectory or the direction. Like so for a lot of us Malcolm X, Was the person who changed our view of how we saw ourselves as black human being. And so I think there was that level of respect, you know, for Malcolm X. Who will be my explanation as to, why? Okay. Okay. Was there any communication with wegg was Malcolm X's family at all involved with the planning of? Yeah, they're doesn't. There's another video. A small one actually isn't a Smithsonian but I have a copy of it on the opening day of Malcolm X Liberation diversity and one of the speaker's was Betty Shabazz. That's awesome. So I got, you know, I got to know her some, you know, not not well. but also, at that time there was the The tension between Malcolm X and the nation. And so, because I remember like after found in Malcolm X, I had a speech in Virginia, you know, Park and the brothers and sisters from the nation. Was like, not going to allow me to speak because I representing Malcolm X. So, you know, people kind of gloss over there, I don't know if they got somewhere but you know, that was Issue, you know, at that particular moment in time but for me the respect for Malcolm X had nothing. It didn't ought to my respect for the nation or for Minister Farrakhan or anything like that, but I but I but but we did, there was a brief period of time there where that was a issue on a

00:51:17.400 - 00:52:01.100

problem. Hmm. How did you? You kind of work around that. Especially I believe, I am not sure how true this is. Maybe you couldn't validate this for me that the Nation of Islam was around for African Liberation day with that, is that accurate? They were there was set out again nation. Islam were participants in African Liberation day. You know what? I think they were members of the nation that participated. I don't know that there was a formal participation. I don't, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know about

00:52:01.100 - 00:53:16.900

that. Okay. Okay. What about any other participants aside from those who were leaders in the Black Power movement were there. Any other groups like The American Indian movement or the Palestine? Group that were engaged. Just think if you when you see that video. At that time there was there was an issue between Ethiopia and Eritrea. Hmm. And so, there was there were good. Now that now that you've asked that question and so There's a on that video. There's that. There's a banner. And I can't remember whether it was the Eritrean student organization, but there was some tension at that time, right? That we were negotiating between Ethiopian students in this country and people in this country and they were trios. So, some of that was, you know, what's going on know that you're, you know, your spark that that memory So, I don't know it. So I asked her that question because I

00:53:19.700 - 00:53:57.300

was wondering what it was like, as far as engaging with participants Palestinian. Yeah, Palestinians, I really don't remember. Okay, but we kept the focus. On African Liberation, right? Which is always an issue. When you put together something this large everybody wants to bring all of their issues and their fights. And we're like, hey man, like this about African Liberation. This is about support for The Liberation movements in southern Africa, and so we kept the focus on that.

00:53:57.600 - 00:55:07.500

Okay? Okay. How did you, like, were they trying to push their own agendas into the African Liberation day? And if they did, how did you kind of make sure that they stay that, like you said, you stay in tune to The Liberation because I was the point of the event. Well, you know, all of the banners and all of those slogans and then you know, all of the speakers we were focused on that, right? And You know, people pretty much stuck to that. I don't, I can't honestly tell you how we managed to do that but we did. Okay. Was there any if you can remember the reaction from you know, seems like it was a lot of national forces for The Liberation day. How was the response locally? Like, did you ever did was there any pushback from the local community? Malcolm X parkour. I don't recall them

00:55:07.900 - 00:56:00.000

okay? But again, I didn't live in d.c. right. Right, but I'm just saying on that day. It was like one of these moments of unity amongst our people. Yeah. That's you don't unfortunately, see a lot of right or the intensity of it and honestly, like the beauty of it. Yeah. And when you, when you look at that video, I think you'll see, have you ever seen what it is? I keep referencing the video. I have not seen the video. I will look again to to view that for sure. If you go to Howard Fuller, Other work. I can walk you through

00:56:00.000 - 00:56:38.800

it. It's sort of my website. A, you has blocked the page. I'm going to bookmark this so I can watch it when I'm not on their Network. Yes. So you'll have to navigate it just go to Life video.

00:56:39.000 - 00:57:49.800

Life in years, okay? And when you get on, let me see if I can do it when you get online videos. It will. Okay, so let me just see. Yeah, it's when you try to go to it, you have to make sure you go to Howard, Fuller, dot or because Howard, Fuller, Collegiate Academy. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. And so, you have to do the Howard Fuller got over thing. Okay. Yeah, and it was shit. Yeah. And when you get to that site, what's going to happen is, you know, my book will come up, no struggle, no progress, but then they'll be over on the right hand side. There will be You know, different places that you can go. Okay, once you want to go to his life

00:57:49.800 - 00:58:20.700

videos, Life, it is like that and the first one that's going to come up is 1972. African Liberation death. Awesome. Thank you. Were there any other moments aside from African Liberation day 1972 that you ever Revisited the park or we visited. Go back to that

00:58:20.700 - 00:59:07.400

bar. I probably have for some demonstration or something, but Have you aside from the early 70s? Do you know where African Liberation day stands today? Where you engage with the planning of future ALDS after 1972? Not really, I mean, I don't know, I mean I've been invited to speak to some okay in a couple of cities over the years when people have done it, really not very much,

00:59:07.400 - 01:00:19.000

no. Okay, okay. Well thank you very much. Is there anything in particular that you wish that we touched on? That you would like to resurface. Well, not really, but I'll just say to you that you have to listen to this whatever. Look at some of the stuff out suggest there. You know, you should feel welcome to get back to me like a I'm gonna send you. I would try to find the The African Liberation day. I'm sorry the opening of Malcolm X Liberation University. Yes there's a there's a great video and it's in the Smithsonian but I actually have it and so I'm gonna email it to you because you'll see Betty Shabazz. You know, speaking on that day. Yeah, that would be awesome and I'll definitely stay connected as well.