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Okay, so today is November 4 2020, and this interview is being conducted online. My name is Sophia Nimlo. I'm currently in Washington DC, and I'm interviewing Hydie Hess. And you're, where in California are you? Fairfield. But I teach in Vallejo. Okay.

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Great. All right. So that's a good place to start, I think. Although no, actually, I want to find out a little bit about your background first before we start, if that's okay? So can you tell me what's a little bit about, sort of, your life before you became a teacher, like where you grew up, and kind of why you wanted to become a teacher in the first place? Sure. Um, so I'm actually from Vallejo. I was born and raised, um, I never really thought I'd become a teacher. Um, just, I didn't really like as I think back in my, like, childhood, I don't even really know if I had any direction. (laughs) And then, you know, like, school happened, middle school happened, high School happened, and I just found myself at college, just like landed there. And I originally went into school to become a nurse, and just failed tremendously. And I-- So I picked up psychology as my major, because I actually had psychology as my minor. And I just loved it, I loved the study of it. Um, I found just everything I was learning, so interesting. And so it was very easy for me to switch to psychology as my major. And so yeah, and this after I graduated with my undergrad degree in psychology, I wanted to go into social work. But I had a very hard time finding a job in social work. And it's like one of those, you know, I don't have experience to be in it, but I can get experience or you know what I mean? Like, I can't get a job. It was just like, that classic situation, but the whole time while I was in my undergrad program, and while I was looking for my first few jobs, or like, you know, like professional careers, I was helping out my parish, and I was teaching faith formation, to high school teens. And you know, the conversations, we have go very, you know, in depth, we never just talk surface level, we really get to know them on a deeper level. And I'd just been doing that. And it, it was something that was just natural to me, and people would point out like, "Oh, you don't want to be a teacher?" And I was just like, "Well, no, not really." And there's something about helping out my community that resonated with me but I just never thought teaching would be that for me. Anyhow, fast forward, I found myself working at a high school, but not as a teacher, but I was helping with admin, campus ministry, stuff, but just being in an environment with school students, and being able to just-- I was in the classroom, but I got to converse with the students and just, you know, they wanted to talk to me and like, tell me what they're, you know, and then saw just like, wow, like, maybe I should, maybe I should go into the classroom. You know? Um, and then a position opened up at the school that I graduated from, for middle school. And it's the same--so I teach at a private school, a private Catholic school--and so the church and the school are connected, so the church that I teach faith formation to was connected to the school. And so it was just like, it just like fell on my lap. But it was like, everything I wanted, right? Like it was the community that not only raised me, but the community I wanted to give back to. And so that's how I found myself back at that particular school. And, um, I've just been able to teach the subjects that I love. And just, I don't know, it's nice being able to be back there. So was the high school where you ended up that was connected to your parish? Was that the high school you went to? Or is it just in the region where you lived? Okay, so, um, the high school I was working at as an admin was actually in Sacramento.

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Oh Okay. And then the position that opened up to be a teacher was in Vallejo. So that's where I work. And did you do like a formal teaching program? Or did you just like your work in psychology, like transferred into you working at that school? So this is a funny story. When I was hired on, I was hired on to be an instructional aide for middle school. And I don't know, some thing's went down, like in the first couple months of school. And they were looking for a substitute teacher for math. And at the time, I was just like, "Sure, I'll sub for the sub pay." (laughs) Because it was making a lot more than what I was making. And so I helped sub. And then the principal came up to me and said, "You know, you're doing well, do you want to teach math full time?" And I was just like, "I could help short term, you don't want me as a math teacher full term." And then she goes, "Well, you know, looking at your resume and your background, and you have a Bachelor's of Science in Psychology. Do you want to teach science?" And I was just like, "Sure, I'm down to teach science." And so I mean, I said yes because you know, it's teacher pay, which is, you know, not a lot, but it was more than instructional aide pay at the time. And, um, you know, I took on the job, because I love the kids, and I love the subject. And then the following year, I enrolled in a credential program. So I kind of used that first year to even see, like, Do I even have the capability of teaching? which, you know, I felt bad because it's almost like, I was testing the waters with these kids. It's just like, well, their future's in my hand, and I'm just kind of seeing if this is what I want (laughs) but it actually worked out because we were all learning together, but they didn't know it.

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Yeah (laughs) I definitely had that experience, too all the time. (both laugh) Okay, so you sort of like fell into the job? And then like, got the credentials later? All right-- Let me see-- I'm trying to think like-- If I want to already start going to COVID, or, find out more about the past. I'm reflecting on what is more valid right now. I think, just--I guess, like, it would be really good for listeners, if we could get a little bit more background just sort of like setting the scene of what the school is like, you've said a little bit about it, but just, what is the demographic of the school? What ages are you teaching? That kind of thing. Sure. Yeah. So um, the school is located in Vallejo, California. And like I mentioned, I teach at a private Catholic school. And so it's a K through eight school. And we actually do have a preschool as well. I teach middle school science and religion. So I teach sixth, seventh and eighth grade science, seventh and eighth grade religion, and I'm the eighth grade homeroom teacher. Um-- and so--the demographics of the school. So the majority of the school is Filipino, which is, you know, I'm Filipino. And most of the community is Filipino. Um, however, like, you know, we have other ethnic backgrounds in our school as well. But yeah, predominantly Filipino American. Are--and then the staff, is the staff also predominantly Filipino? You know, when I was a student at the school I'm at, when I was a student. It was, I feel like, almost all of my teachers were white.

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That's really interesting. Yeah, when I was a student, I think at one point, I had a music teacher who was Filipino, I think, but she also taught me Spanish, so I don't know she was part-- I don't know. But I knew she was Filipino--Something like that. But she didn't stay that long. So yeah, predominantly white staff, even admin-wise. And I think we had one Indian teacher who was, who I still see every now and then, um, which is kind of cool. Um, but once I started teaching there-- I would say-- Well, one, I was when I started teaching there, like at least three of the teachers--no, four of the teachers who taught me-- were still at the school. So it was like you know, they like to stay for the long haul. Um, and, but I think now we have one, two, three, four, five? Now we have like-- six? Six Filipino teachers, um-- three Filipino Americans. So, you know, first generation Filipino American. Um-- so I feel like now it's becoming more diverse in terms of staff. And even age-wise, so I think within the last few years, the teachers like I mean when I was hired I was like the youngest. And then just like every year, it's like a younger teacher and a younger teacher and just well, but when I think about it, I'm like, No, I was, I was their age when I started. So, yeah. So when you were a kid, were most of the teachers older, would you say? I mean, you know, relatively? (laughs) I think--

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Yeah (laughs) -- at the time, the youngest teacher, um, she must have been in her like, early 30s. Yeah. Yeah. And just going off of that a little bit, before we talk about, like the present. So when you were a kid, and the school was mostly being taught by white teachers, like, how would you say, that affected your relationship with them as a student? Like, did you feel seen, you know, like, what was the dynamic there? You know, um, there was only one teacher, I feel like, the whole time I was there, that really resonated with me. And she wasn't even Filipino. But it was just the way she spoke to us and how honest she was with us. And she just showed up, she would show up to our basketball games, or like, she would show up in and even like, I would, if I was having an off day, she would be willing to, you know, chat with me about it versus other teachers. They kind of were like, "Oh, I'm sorry." And then just kind of, like, move you along. Um, and there were some teachers, where I felt like-- you know, I was just there. But then, it was like one of the same teachers who was there when I became, you know, and eventually became my colleague, and they were able to spit all of these things about what they remember of me as a student. I was just like, Oh, so you did see me? I just didn't know you saw me because you really kept to yourself. So I don't know. Um, I felt like, with the one teacher, she actually taught me science and religion too, which is why I think I love the subjects so much, because she taught me those subjects. She, I felt seen by her for sure. And I model a lot of my teaching from her. But mostly the instructional aides, I felt like were the ones who I trusted most. Maybe because they were with us at recess. And you know, they would check in with us at lunch, they were there for more of the fun stuff of school versus like, you know--

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So you feel like they could make sort of more of like a personal-- Connection. --Cause it's not like discipline. Could you--Are there like any-- Can you tell like a story about a time where that teacher, like an example--if not, that's fine--but do you have any, like specific stories where you could like, give an example of how she made you like what she did specifically? The one that taught me science and religion?

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Yeah. Oh, I have so many stories. Um-- let me Okay, so there's a couple. So I, you know, at the time when I was in middle school, you know, middle schoolers these days, like, I mean, even like primary school kids, they all have like phones and all that stuff. Well, you know, I didn't have a phone until I was in eighth grade or something. And even then, you know, it was off. I didn't really use it. Anyway, I remember there was one time in middle school, I forgot an assignment at home. And it was with a teacher who absolutely terrified me, like, I felt like if I told-- even if I told him the truth about why I didn't have my assignment-- they would just like, tear me apart in class. And I was scared to go to the office, because I knew the office wouldn't let me use the office phone to call my dad to drop off this assignment, because they're gonna say it was my fault. I just knew that that was, that was their policy. And so I was like--I guess I was in homeroom--and I was just kind of like, silently crying to myself trying to figure out how I'm going to get myself out of this mess. And that teacher noticed. And she was asking me like, "What's wrong?" And then I told her and then like, you know, when someone asks you What's wrong, and you're composed, but then you all of a sudden, like, just all like-- Yeah. (laughs) --So I start hyperventilating. I'm freaking out, and she was just like, "Okay, it's fine." And then it was fortunately around like, the time for recess and break. And so all the students are leaving. And then she pulls me in my friend aside, and she goes, "This one time." And I'm like, "What?" She hands me her cell phone. She tells me to call my dad, she tells me to make it quick, and she tells me to tell him to go around the back building so I could get it (both laugh) so that I wouldn't get caught. And I swear, I like, she gained her angel wings and her halo that day, and I'm like, I was bowing to her forever. And it was such a small thing like when I'm thinking about it now as a teacher, I'm just like, it's one assignment. But in the moment, it was like everything. That and she became our cheerleading coach, too. (laughs) Yeah, so she just really wanted to show that she supported us, even when she was annoyed with us at cheer practice, she just, you know, she always showed up. Yeah.

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And so you--that's something that like you--would you say, is the thing that you're modeling the most with your students? Or is it like, specific teaching practice, like curriculum type of stuff? Or is it kind of both? For me, I model a lot of the personal interaction. Cause I'll be honest, I don't really remember curriculum stuff when it came with her, you know, I mean, she taught me those subjects. I knew, and I knew from time to time-- you know, we did experiments, I think? I barely remember, but I do remember the personal connection she made with us and how she made me feel. And I can even ask, like, you know, I came from a small school, like, there were 38 of us in a class that graduated. And I could say with confidence I'll talk to any one of those 37 and they would say the same thing about her. So yeah, I feel like that's a lot of the time what it is like, you don't remember anything that you actually learned. But you remember, like the emotional connection-- Yeah.

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--Are you still in touch with her at all? Are you just-- Yeah, so um, like I said, when I first started teaching, maybe three of the teachers who taught me were still there, and they were very close to her. And, um, there was one day I saw her because she came to visit and my heart sank. I was just like, Oh my gosh. (both laugh) And I don't know why. Because my sister also into that school, and she's nine years younger than me. So I would bring my sister to school, pick her up. So I would still see my teacher, like the teacher there before she retired. But just seeing her while being in the capacity that I was to teach. And I'm like, standing in the classroom that she taught me in and I'm like, "Can we just take a picture?" And so yeah, like, we talked for a little bit, she kind of, like, gave me some comfort, knowing like, "You know it's okay, if you don't get through the entire textbook?" Like, you know she little things like that, because I was freaking out. I think that was my second first or second year of teaching at that point. And I follow her on Facebook. Pretty sure she's on Instagram, and watching her raise her granddaughter. (both laugh) That's awesome. Yeah.

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Okay, well, I feel like that sets like a very good foundation for the rest of this. So now like talking about 2020-- teaching in 2020, specifically. I guess, sort of the-- maybe where we should start is like, when was the, when did you first hear about the pandemic? Like, I know, I heard about it from my students before anybody else. But I was wondering if like you had any kind of similar experience? Just that COVID existing? Um, I feel like I heard or like, I remember seeing the word COVID somewhere on social media, and did not take it seriously. I remember seeing COVID and China in the same sentence, but not really thinking about it. But I'm, but I do remember some of my students asking me, and I felt like, Wow, I should probably research this because I'm their science teacher. (laughs) You know? And so, um-- But I just kept pushing it off, because I just thought you know, It's just something, it's fine they'll figure it out. And I think this was back in, like, Novem-- like a year ago. Yeah, like, this time and December. And at one point, I remember my, I had one student in my class just constantly, like, "Let's pray for everyone in China. Let's pray for everyone in China." And I never knew if he was being serious or sarcastic, because he kind of, you just can't really tell with him. But now I'm looking back and I'm like, Wow, we should have taken him seriously. (laughs) He knew what he was talking about, he probably has some prophecy or something. But um, yeah, so I-- I remember hearing it for the first time this time last year, but only really getting nervous about it, like in February. Yeah, do you know, like, where your students were hearing about it? Like mine I think it was mostly Tik Tok, but I, it's hard to know. Like, they all seemed to know before anybody else. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure it's some social media. I don't know if it was and it easily, could have been Tik Tok. Probably Instagram, Snapchat? I don't know, whatever platform they're on. But, um-- yeah, probably Tik Tok.

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Yeah. (laughs) Okay, so now, can you kind of like walk me through-- I feel like we all had sort of different timelines and experiences for when things became very obviously serious. But can you sort of like, tell me your story of-- Yeah. --when you found that it was bad and school closing, like, how did it happen where you were? Mm hmm. It feels so long ago, but then also feels so like yesterday. Um, so like I mentioned, you know, the thought of COVID was on my radar, like, last year. Um, I felt, I started getting nervous about it in February. And then in March, when I start, like, when we start hearing the news of it, starting to really spread. And my students are just like, you know, "Oh, you know, Mrs. Hess, What do we do? What do we do?" I'm like, "You guys, it's fine. Don't worry about it." And then, you know, first the hand sanitizer starts flying off the shelf. And I was just like, Really, it's that serious? Like, I was in such denial, I thought, because I just I knew very little about the virus. And-- So that was early March, and then slowly, like our school, they would send out announcements, and they would let parents know, like, If you wish to keep your child at home, we will excuse it. Because, you know, like in California, we had a bunch of wildfires, and we still have a bunch of wildfires. So that same, you know, If you if you would like to keep your child at home because of the wildfire, that same kind of email started rolling out for this. And I was just like, Man it's that serious? And then like, you know, kids started coming to school with masks on, but it wasn't like a mandated thing. It was just like, for their own personal safety. And I was just like, Okay, just like observing. And I remember, it was Thursday, where-- No, it was on a Wednesday-- that I started getting like maybe, like, five students gone. I'm like, Okay that's a lot. And then Thursday, even more. So the kids who were left there on Friday, they were just like, "Are even gonna have school next week?" And I was just like, "I don't know, but we're here, right now, we're gonna make the most of it." And then that Friday morning, my principal kind of comes up to us, in each classroom, you know, cause I'm not checking my emails during the day. So she's just like, "So, at some point, have your students who are here, just take everything from their lockers and get ready to bring it home." And I was just like, "Okay." And she goes, "Yeah, and if you could set aside the students' books, who are already home, just set it aside, and we'll pick up a time for them to pick it up." And I was just like, "Okay." And then in my head, I'm like, I'm not going to-- like I had probably, I don't know, at this point, maybe 10 students at home? Or, if not more, I don't even remember. But I had a lot. I'm like, I'm not going to do this by myself. So my students who are there, I'm like, "Okay, this is what we're doing." I just said it very matter of factly, "Take all your books out, just clean everything up. And you're going to help me get this person's stuff and get it stacked, you know, down the line." So by that March, March 13, I'll never forget, because it was Friday the 13th. Um, yeah, very telling. (laughs) By that Friday, all the students had all of their books, or at least the in-person kids. And then the following week, parents would be coming in to pick up the books from the school so that their children at home could have it. And that Friday, our principal made an announcement as students were getting picked up like just, in the loudspeaker. You know, parents and guardians, [REDACTED] will be closed for like, the next two weeks. We're like, Okay, we're closed for the next two weeks. And then, you know, my students are getting picked up. And I didn't know I was just like, You know what, since we're going to be closed for two weeks, take all these lollipops that I had stored up (laughs) like, I don't need them, just passing it out. You know, they're saying bye giving me hugs. And like, now I think about it I'm like, I shouldn't have passed out those lollipops, I shouldn't have taken those hugs, (laughs) but it's probably the last human contact I've had with my students since then. Um-- you know, I'm giving them little squirts of hand sanitizer as they're walking out, just not realizing how serious all of it would be. But that following Monday, so that was March-- 16 we were already like, we were expected to just jump right into it. So our school, we didn't use zoom at the time yet. So I was already using Google Classroom while I was teaching anyway, so it was very seamless, at least for my students, to find my assignments from them. I set up a, like a Google Chat Room. And I told them what times I'd be checking, so if they wanted to ask me questions live they could do it there. If they wanted to email me, they could do that, too. But yeah, so at least for those first two weeks, I was just using email, and the chat room. But it started right away. Like, we didn't even stop to reassess what would happen, how it affects families, we just jumped right in. Which, in hindsight, you know-- we really should've taken the time because, you know later on, we get emails from families who are saying that they're really struggling, because, you know, both parents are either working, they don't know if their child is really, you know, looking at their emails or checking at the right time, how the child would even organize themselves. Do they follow the schedule from school? Or do they just-- you know, it was just very-- up in the air, like I would just post something, and just hope that eventually I'll get something back from the kids. (Sophia laughs) Put out the vibes, you know what I mean? And just waiting. Um-- and then, like you know, it started to prolong we were getting emails, like, Okay, so it's not going to be until this date, that we're going to come back. And then that's when it really started to hit because then we would get emails from families again you know, someone just lost their job, they don't even know if the kid will stay enrolled. Because, you know, at our school, it's private, so they have to pay tuition. And they weren't sure. And like do the students even have the resources at home? Do they have the internet capacity? Do they have multiple devices? Because at our school, it's very familial and generational and there's like, multiple kids at the school. And just access was a big thing that we didn't really discuss, but we just kind of had to figure out as-- as you know, it went on. And then we had spring break. So we had a week to kind of breathe, but barely because even during spring break, we were spending most of the time figuring out like, Okay, so when we get back what are we going to do? So, I'm like the most seniored in the junior high staff. So, you know, my principal was kind of like, looking to me to spearhead meetings. And, you know, while my students were just figuring out the Google Classroom stuff, I was telling her about Zoom because in my grad program, that's how I would meet with my capstone advisor was through Zoom. So I told her about it, and I told her how we should look into it. And so a couple of us teachers, you know, made an account and we started playing around with it, before spring break, figured it out, presented it to her. I had to, like, come up with a whole tutorial on how to do this, even though I could have just looked it up, but I typed it out. Just to make sure 'cause you never know. And so after spring break, we started using Zoom. And during spring break, the junior high teachers and I, we came up with a schedule to give to our students to say like, Okay, at this time at this block, you could expect to either have a Zoom with this teacher, or just know that this is a time you should be working on this subject. Just to give the kids some structure and routine because they don't have that anymore. But even with the Zoom in the springtime, we didn't have any expectations, really, we were just kind of like, this is what's happening. So I would have a zoom call with my kids. And classic middle school, no one wants to show their face or if they do, it's like their forehead and eyebrows. And I'm like, Okay, I know, there's more to you, but if that's what you want to show me that's fine, privacy, I get it. So I didn't even though if they were listening, you know, and then versus I have friends who, at the school, who teach like, third grade and fourth grade, and they're like, "Oh, the kids won't stop talking to each other." I'm like, "Well, at least you get to see them." And I was in this weird position where I'm like, Yeah, I'm teaching and I'm your teacher, but it's like, I miss you guys. You know, and I don't know how to say that without coming off weird to my students because I don't know how they feel about that. Or how parents would feel about me saying that, especially online and on Zoom, 'cause it's just like-- But yeah, teaching became so much harder not just because it was hard to tell if they were grasping the content, but because most of how I love to teach is through that relationship with them. I joke a lot when I teach science, and I like to make puns. And so when I'm making puns, while I'm doing my lectures, and all I see are black screens with their names on it, I'm like, Is it funny? Can you just say, haha, or give me a little thumbs up emoji? Like it-- it just-- sucks. And then grading just became this huge issue and like, how do we properly grade? How do we grade someone who hasn't even showed up to a Zoom once? Or how do we grade when they don't submit homework assignments until the very end, and it's just like stock piled up? You know? Because you want to be sensitive to their situation. But also, yeah, it's just, it's just hard. Um-- And then because I'm eighth grade homeroom, and especially at our school, eighth grade is such a big year, because they have these exit projects, and they have like graduation events. And the eighth grade class that I had, was very well deserving of all the-- their funfair or whatever, that comes with eighth grade graduation, but it's like, I want you guys to have all of that. But I just, I literally cannot provide that for you this year. Like the eighth grade dance, and things like that. And we were prepping for their graduation ceremony. And it's just like, every-- anything I tried to do, as much as I'm doing-- you know, we did the whole car parade and stuff like that-- at the end of the day, I always felt like I fell short with them because they were happy they got something, but they were also still disappointed that it wasn't the same. And I know it's not on me. But I carry that with me. And now, when we went into the summertime, I'm like, Okay, just please let this be done in the fall, because I don't want to go through it again. And just like, yeah-- (both laugh) And then here we are, we're wrapping up trimester one, report cards are due soon, and the kids are asking me-- And like, obviously the way we're doing teaching now, in the fall is different than it was in the springtime. We were able to have back to school night online, so I was able to outline my expectations with the parents and collaborate with them as to what is reasonable and expected for how students present themselves on Zoom. And then now going into this hybrid model, so to speak, where I have the majority of my students doing remote learning, but I do have--at least in my eighth grade homeroom class right now--I have five in-person students. And we really fought to find ways to make the learning equitable, and safe, which is a whole nother series that we could probably talk about later. But yeah, it's just-- when you think we're doing like one step forward, it's just like, there's so much like--

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Yeah. --Yeah. Yeah it's-- it's obviously ridiculously challenging for so many reasons. Can you-- just for anybody listening who doesn't know anything about teaching right now--can you kind of explain sort of briefly like, what the hybrid-- what hybrid model looks like exactly, what is it to be remote? And how does that work? Yeah, so for--at least at our school--what we're doing, or at least I think it's pretty consistent in our diocese--which is like the equivalent of a school district--we have, we've given families the option to have their students come back in person. And if they do come back in person, obviously they have to-- they have to have certain things like medical documents and things like that. And so we would teach them in person. While we also have Zoom going with our students learning from home, and so we call them remote-learners because they're learning remotely. What they originally wanted us to do was to set up like a webcam in our classroom. So that the students learning in person can kind of get that, you know, natural learning environment, and then the students at home could look like they're just watching in. But we were playing with the webcam and our smartboard. And the glare it's just like, it was not working. My students in person will be able to see my slides just fine, but with the angle of the webcam, there's no way that my remote-learners could see it, or for me to see if my remote learners are doing the work, right? So we fought to have it where the in-person kids they're here, but they're gonna be on a device still, because at least I know when I'm on Zoom with all my students, I have my slides, and I could share my screen, and I could see everyone at the exact same time. And that's how we made sure that the learning was equitable because otherwise, you know, the in-person students are clearly at an advantage. And the students at home are just, they're overlooked. And even-- even then, even when I'm on the Zoom, and I am able to, like, kind of scroll through the screen, every now and then I do miss a kid. You know, and I'm trying to get their attention in the chat without calling them out to embarrass them and making sure that they are learning. But at our school, there's like, a whole process now, even the students coming into the classroom is very different. You know, I take their temperatures every morning, I ask them the screening questions before they come in, their desks are spaced out. And originally, well, not originally, the desks-- So I have twenty-seven eighth graders currently total, five in person. But in order to get twenty-seven desks in my classroom, the desks are actually spaced three feet apart versus six. And three feet was kind of like, what was allowed. But since I have five, I'm able to kind of space them out a little bit more. So um-- Yeah just like the classroom looks a lot different. I have a whole like plexiglass on my science table, (Sophia Laughs) and just all around. When my students are in the classroom, I'm teaching with a mask on even when I'm on Zoom, which is tough, because the people on Zoom, they can't see my mouth. And I had this shield going at first, so that they could see me talking, but then I had the microphone going and it was just a hot mess. So I'm like, I'm just going to keep the, you know, the cloth mask on and the microphone and it is what it is.

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Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of how it looks like right now. And when the trimester ends, we get to reassess. And parents can then choose if they want to have their kids come in in person. So we could be getting more students or students might change their mind and want to stay home. But if they're in person, they have to stay in person unless they show symptoms, and they have to go home and quarantine. Um, yeah. And have you had any cases, since you guys started having people in person? Um, we haven't had any COVID positive cases no, um-- we've had some students get sent home because they experienced a symptom. And we just sent them home out of precaution, but it actually turned out not to be anything. A kid last last week, actually, last Friday, we had our Halloween thing at school, they were all dressed up. But she was in costume and she got overheated. But her temperature went up, so we had to send her home. (both laugh) It was really 'cause she was wearing a costume and she was overheated, but-- We just had to be safe. Yeah.

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Yeah, that makes sense. It sounds like you--I mean, obviously, you've worked really hard to make sure that everything is as equitable as possible. Would you say that's coming from the teachers mostly? Or is it coming from administration? Is it the group or like, who is pushing for that specifically? Um-- I think I'm very blessed to be in a school community where all the teachers collectively feel this way. And so when we were given certain directives from the diocese, initially, there were some points where we really wanted to, kind of, push and ask certain questions to the diocese as to like reasons why certain guidelines were set in place, or things like that. Like the whole return to in-person instruction, we were given like fifty pages to kind of read through of like what they expected. And so yeah, I think I'm blessed to be among colleagues who are like-minded and want to make sure all of our students are receiving equitable learning. But I do-- You know, in all honesty, I do feel like, we really had to fight for it and push for it. At one point as a staff, in one of our meetings, we kind of, we just were really honest with our principal, and we told her exactly how we felt, and how we felt like certain regulations were putting teachers at risk. And it's not fair that we're telling families one thing, like it's safe to come back in person when the desks are three feet apart. And it's like-- How is it safe to have students sitting three feet apart, when, as a society, we're asked to be six feet apart at all times? And so just little things like that, that we really had to band together and fight for. We even took it up and talked to our regional director about it and just expressed our concerns. We wrote a letter, and we all signed it, as you know, as a group of teachers, just so that we could say, You know what, at the end of the day, at least, we, we spoke our mind. And if I had to look back at 2020, at least I know I was on this side of things, you know? Just for, even if it's just for our own conscience. Yeah. But yeah, it wasn't easy. And it-- it definitely, all of us have had our multiple breaking points. And I felt like as teachers, we're all kind of on the cusp. But what's nice is that we're there for each other, (laughs) you know? So if one person is about to break, one person is just strong enough to kind of blow us back, and then roles reverse, and then we're there for each other in that way. Like, I don't know, how-- the amount of times I've cried at school, just within the last three months, are probably more than the amount of times I've-- you know, in the last five years I've taught there. (laughs)

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Would you say that planning lessons is significantly harder now? I mean, that's what I'm hearing from most people, but like-- what is the time-- how time consuming is that? And like, what does it involve? For me, it's harder. I would say it is, yeah. Because I'm also thinking-- my students, I was in junior high, the way their schedule is set up. No matter what they have to log in, at least at the top of each period to just take attendance. And I don't know what each teacher, if they're going to be staying for the entire Zoom period. So theoretically, a kid could be looking at a Zoom call for like, seven hours. And so for me, as much as I want to be able to get through my curriculum, I have to condense it so that I get the main ideas, but also provide something that they could then do separately away from the screen, so that they're not just constantly staring at the screen. And that part's kind of hard because I don't know what kind of mater-- I guess, especially with science, right? I don't know what kind of materials students have at home, so all of the experiments I have to conduct have to be like kitchen experiments, which is fine, it's more fun that way. But still, I don't know what students have access to, if students are even allowed to touch those things at home. Or if they don't, will, parents buy it for them? I reached the point where some of my students are like, "Mrs. Hess I-- my printer is out of ink." And so I'm like, Okay, so I guess we should stop sending worksheets-- because they can't print it. So just finding multiple ways to make sure that they get the lesson has been-- has been challenging, and really finding ways to engage them too, because I could just go through the lessons I've been doing in the past, but-- half of the time, most of the learning comes from the conversations we have, the dialogue we have in person. But when students are shy to even talk on the Zoom call, it kind of eliminates half of my lesson right there. Or like the kid that really wants to talk, their wifi is just so messed up that-- (Sophia laughs) It's so, choppy, and I'm just there like, "Mm hmm. Just push through it. Yep." (Hydie laughs) Yeah, just to decode it for the class. Yeah (Sophia laughs) How-- what is like the family responses? Like I know, when I was still teaching, at first parents were like, Teachers are heroes. And then I feel like-- once they realized we were still online, that sort of changed, but I don't know. Like, was that sort of your experience? How have families been? Um-- It's--I've experienced both ends. In the beginning,-- I felt like parents-- I mean, and even now I do have parents who are very understanding-- of the situation we're in. They're-- a little more compassionate towards what we're going through. But you know, like-- yeah, and like with the whole graduation thing, I had some parents who were just really grateful to have an opportunity to have something for the kids, even though it was non-traditional. But I still had parents who were really upset that we couldn't do certain things. And-- and I know they weren't mad at me for it, but they were definitely projecting it on me as if it was my fault, which was, you know-- But when it came to curriculum, in the beginning of this school year parents were really grateful that we were able to just pick up right away in March and like without skipping a beat-- Most were, but then when the whole in-person thing--the news about students, students coming in--that's where we actually saw a split within the parents at the school. Some parents really wanted to band together and say, "No, I don't think we should put our students at risk, we shouldn't put our teachers at risk. Let's keep the students at home, for their safety for the teacher safety." But then we had parents who-- their only, the only way for them to go back to work is for the kids to be at home. And so I definitely heard both sides of it. Parents who are championing for teachers and saying, like, We're here for you, we got you. But I also was, you know-- As grateful as I was to have those parents support, I do also understand that some parents just really need their kids at school too. And I've had--I've had one parent, kind of call me out a little bit and challenge me on that. Because there was a petition that went out with the school, and asking--a petition made by the parents of the school, not the teachers, because we purposely kept ourselves out of it-- to keep the students home. And I had a parent call me and asked me how I felt about it and pretty much said, Well, this petition is very selfish on the side of teachers. And I think initially, it really caught me off guard because I-- at that-- from that point, I didn't think any parent felt that way. But when she was able to kind of hear my reasoning for it, and the risks. Um-- yeah, that I was nervous about, we were just able to have a conversation. But that was the first time I heard a parent just, you know--like, really upset (laughs) about it. Everything's okay now, I think but, um, yeah.

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It's, I mean, it's hard because there-- there's obviously both fits in. I do feel like it's probably, obviously like a bigger systems issue, then we're all just kind of at the center of it. So we're almost at an hour, but I do want to ask about Black Lives Matter and anti-racism practices. Is it okay, if we got like a little over? Yeah. Okay. And also, I'm recording this. I forgot to ask at the beginning if that's okay. (laughs) No, yeah, that's fine. I just realized like, at one point I-- I said my school's name, I don't know if that's like a thing--

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If you're worried about it there's a way for me to either put like a hold on it where it won't go in the archive or anything. And we can also just put in the release that you're speaking for yourself, and not your school if you want. But-- Yeah, if we could just do that, because I don't want-- Yeah, that's fine. And I'll send you this too. So I mean, we'll talk about this later, too. But we can look at like, what you want to do with it. And we'll talk about it after. Sure.

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Okay, cool. So, I guess like-- before any of the protests happened this spring, were-- Like, was race something that you discussed in your classroom at all? Was it something that was discussed in the building? Like what was what was it beforehand? Yeah, so I did talk about race in the classroom, because I teach religion. And so one of the things I appreciate covering, at least on that level, is social justice teaching principles. And so that's always like my junior high students, they love that stuff, because it's so in the now. It's like what they're seeing and it's something that they can do. And so we talked-- when it came to race, we were mostly talking about the injustice going on with children being ripped away from families and what that means to the children, what it means to the families, but what does that mean as--as, you know, a community? Right, what is that trying to say? But we just grazed the surface of it, we-- some students will stay after class, and we'll talk more about it, but it's just grazing the surface. But like now-- I mean, this summer was just-- I felt like-- I-- I had to do so much more. You know what I mean? Because, like, I knew there was a huge race problem in our country. But like-- I was at a point where I hear, like, I feel like I hear one occasion. And I'm like, Oh, that's so sad. And then I move on. And then I forget. And then it comes up again. And I'm like, Oh wait, didn't that just happen? I'm like, Oh, wait, no, this is a completely different one. Oh, that's so sad. Okay and move on. But I think the pandemic-- the fact that we were at home, and we were forced to face this and see what was happening-- I was just like, I can't believe how many names and how many unjust, just, like, injustice was happening. And I--and it's like, How did I not know more? And how, how did I let myself live this long, without feeling more compelled? And so this summer was definitely a summer of learning for me and finding out ways to make this not relevant to my students, because it's very relevant. I don't have to make that relevant. But especially because my students do come from a private school. My goal now is to have them recognize that privilege. And just be like, Sure, you go to a private school. And yes, you go to school, where the person sitting next to you looks almost exactly like you like very similar backgrounds. But how are you going to take what we know and the privilege we have, and the platform we have, and the voice that we have, and amplify it, so that everyone has that same? And so, I-- I try to take it slow at first, especially with my eighth graders, because I just know if I go full force with them, they're going to be like, "Whoa, okay, chill." So I kind of have to plant it, and lead it up to my unit on social justice teaching. Otherwise, they're going to tune off. And so at my school, we're very big on virtues, and having students identify--and there's like a whole list of virtues they could choose from--so just weekly, my students have to pick a virtue that they recognize in themselves that they've practiced and set a goal for them, just to get themselves in the habit that they need certain virtues in order to recognize, you know, yeah. Um-- but then like, even in little things so when my students, they weren't my students today, but I overheard some fifth graders, clowning some other kid. And I'm sure they were joking, but they were like, "Oh, are those Walmart shoes?" And I wanted to be like, "Um, hold up, what's wrong with Walmart shoes?" But they weren't my students, and I really had to question myself, I'm like, Do I cross that line and overstep that teacher's space? But then I put that in my back pocket, because I know, I'm going to use that in my next lesson and ask my kids like, So sure they were joking, but how, like, what do you think other students, or other people will feel when they hear that? So I think my approach to all the social unrest in our society is to have my students recognize that privilege and do something. Or at least start thinking about it, because they're just so-- they're just so unaware. And what I am proud of is that some of the students that I did teach they're--at least my first group of eighth graders--they're in college now. And so I do follow them on social media and just seeing how very aware they are of the injustices in our society, make me very proud. And so when I see them post something, I'll comment on it and just engage in conversation with them that way so that they know there's a teacher back home, who sees the work that they're doing, and is encouraging them to use their voice. And hopefully that can trickle down to their younger siblings who are in my classroom. And then we could engage in conversation that way too. Do you think, obviously, you're--like you've done a lot of self-reflection, and are doing a lot of active work in your classroom? How-- Like, how would you sort of gauge how the school is handling it? Is that just you, or is it the whole staff, like you're obviously very close as a staff, but is this like a school effort or just individuals? Actually, so I mentioned that I teach science and religion. But at the school, I'm also the school liturgy coordinator, so like anything with faith formation, and faith preparation is kind of what I take on. And so part of that is I work with the catechist certificate for our staff, because since we teach at a private Catholic school, there's like a level of catechesis that we need to complete. And so one of our documents that we are reading for our catechist certification is called, oh my gosh, I don't even remember the name of it. I printed it out, too. Anyway, it's a document by the United States-- (asks husband in background) Is it College of Bishops? Counsel of Bishops? Conference of Bishops, United States Conference of Bishops, and it's a letter addressing specifically racism. And so I think it's called A Call to Love or something-- Open Wide Our Hearts. It's called Open Wide Our Hearts an Enduring Call to Love. And in the letter, the bishops outline--well, first they define what racism is, they point out specifically where it's seen throughout history. In a way where, obviously, we can't simplify it too much, because then it gets super watered down. But for the purpose of the letter, it kind of just gets the main points, but then gives very practical, This is what we need to do as a church community. This is what we need to be preaching to, not just parishioners, but to our students. And so, we've had the privilege of having those discussions as a staff. And actually, this Friday, we're gonna have another one of those meetings, and we-- we're gonna watch a video on on justice, and how do we promote justice in the classroom. And so on that level, I am grateful that it's not just something that I'm doing in my classroom, or like my friends are doing in their classrooms, but as a school, we are reading about and learning together. And I even know my admin, over the summer, took the time to read books like White Fragility, and things like that, just to kind of check where she's coming from. And she gave her own personal story on her upbringing and how she's grateful to be teaching where she is. And so I just-- I'm grateful that we're all at least like-minded in that way. Although, I do hear side comments every now and then. And I'm trying to I'm still trying to discern like, So was that racist? Or like, are you just unsure? So I think that's why our, our monthly conversations will be important.

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This is something your doing now and you started-- Yeah. -- last summer? When-- Were you still in school? Like when the George Floyd protests first started? Or was it the summer when that happened? It was the summer when it happened. 'Cause school ended end of May.

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Okay. Yeah because I think that was like beginning of June? Yeah. Because I was I wanted to see if it had come into the classroom at all, because we were still in school when it happened. So it was sort of something coming up with the kids. Was it something like-- obviously, you're proactively talking about social justice issues in your classes--but is it something like the students were specifically bringing up the protests happening in the summer? Or were they talking about, like more general things that they'd heard in the past? Right now, my students today?

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Yeah, this semester. They haven't brought up the protest specifically. I think they're just talking about it generally. But I'm going to get to a point where we're going to just name it. We're going to identify, you know, in like each specific case. I do know that in June, was when the protests really started happening. And even though school ended in May, my eighth graders from last year we were doing their graduation stuff in June. And so I do know that my students then were affected by it. And were very vocal about it. Because they always had-- that particular class has always been very vocal about, you know, race issues. And it, like I was brought to tears because I don't have a lot of Black students in my classroom. I don't think this year-- Actually, this year I have one student who's half. But last year I had, I had uh-- one-- one student and I was brought to tears because on her graduation day, it was actually on Juneteenth, which just happened to be that way. She had, you know, one of those Kente cloth stolls, and it said black grads matter. And I don't know why I think just because of every-- like, my emotions were heightened already. But just seeing that and seeing her wear that and knowing that she's going to be walking out of the school with that--with that sense of pride--but also sense of action, just made me very proud of her. But also made me sad 'cause I'm like, man, we're not going to get to have those conversations, like I want to know what you're thinking, I want to know what you're going to do. So I think that's just on me to like, stay in touch with her. But, you know-- I feel like that was just really hard. Because obviously, we're really separated from the kids with everything going on. Yeah

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But yeah, that was really hard for me too. And then in terms of like family, for talking about issues of race, do you see any pushback or any kind of like, parents being grateful maybe? Or does it come in-- like, did they bring that up with you? I haven't had that personal conversation with families, when I do bring it up in the classroom. I always hold my breath 'cause I'm like, Okay, am I going to be getting an email? But so far I haven't. I've had colleagues where it-- they've got some pushbacks, or a parent misunderstood where they're coming from and thought that they were being racist by how they worded something. But on the same email, another parent saw it and was very grateful that they were going to have conversations about racism in the classroom. So um not in my classroom, but I have seen it in our school community with other colleagues. Yeah. That can be really challenging. And then you I'm assuming at your school, because it's private, you don't have any kind of like security-- like resource officers or anything? No, we don't have resource officers. Um, we did recently just build an entire fence structure to like-- around the whole school. And I do remember when it first went up--'cause it was just like maybe within the last two or three years-- a kid was just like, "Wow, it feels like a prison." And I'm just like, "Mmm." And I just left it at that. (both laugh) Because when I went to school there, it was all open. It just felt like everything was cohesive, like the church was right there. Um--

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Was it built for like security or just? Yeah, it was built for security. 'Cause there's been two instances where, there-- because we have a storage unit next door. (laughs) And there's been a couple sting operations. (Sophia laughs) So I'm like, Yeah, I mean, like, I could see why it happened. But when that-- when my student made that comment, I was just like, That's how it feels, huh? Yeah. Okay, so I think that that is pretty much most of what I wanted to ask you about. But I wanted to ask just so we can end on like a positive note, what is-- what would you say is like the most rewarding part of being a teacher? What makes it worth going through all the things you have to go through on the job? Honestly, the students' growth in any form, really. Whether it's seeing a kid who absolutely hated science, to winning the science fair--and not because I was judging because I'm not allowed to but just on their own merit-- and then just falling in love with the top-- or the subject. Or just like the emotional growth, seeing students have their eyes opened for the first time. Or when students realize that they're not alone, and that they do have a community of people who love and support them, is probably my favorite thing. And, like honestly, it's the relationships that I build with my students too. Like one of my favorite things-- of working at that school is just being able to go to their volleyball and basketball games, and just talking to the kids who watch the games with us. And being able to go to school the next day, and just congratulate them on how they did. Especially the kids who are not usually good at sports, and then they just do something phenomenal. And then you kind of just boost their self esteem a little by bringing it up in class. That's probably my favorite part about teaching and why I love what I do. Which is what makes this year so hard, because all of that has been stripped. And it just really feels like I'm just behind a screen and just pushing curriculum, which I-- I don't like, but it's like what I have to do in the moment. And--and the hard part too-- sorry I know, we're trying to be positive-- (laughs) but it's like, when the students are at home, I know some of them they have parents also working from home. And so I-- (laughs) I get so self conscious about like, me being myself because then parents might think like, Oh, your teacher talks like that? Because sometimes I talk really goofy. I'm not always this, like, you know-- put together. And it's just like-- this need to be a particular way online. When I know like the students, they don't want that. They don't want to see some rigid teacher. They want someone they could ask questions to or I don't know. So yeah, I think the pers-- like the being personable with my students, is what keeps me there.

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Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like I would have such a hard time knowing parents were sort of watching me teaching. (laughs) Do they ever get on? I've heard people say, parents will get on-- to the calls and yell at them and stuff. Like, have you ever had any weird parent interactions? Um-- Not-- Not like that. Like, I've never had a parent kind of look at the Zoom, like behind their kid. But um actually-- Was it yesterday? A seventh grader was giving a presentation. He was talking and I think he was stumbling on a word. And I'm pretty sure he had grandma on the side coaching him through the word and I was just like-- I couldn't be obvious. Otherwise, the rest of the class would know. So I'm just like, "Alright." (laughs) Does that, and then-- Sorry, I know, this is like, totally back-- backtracking off of the positive thing-- But just-- I was just thinking, like, if you're talking about controversial issues with your class, does it make you more apprehensive doing that with parents possibly, being there? Like-- Yeah.

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--I mean, obviously, you're teaching it anyway, and kids can go home and tell them. But does it make it feel weirder having them in the background? It does, not so much for me, but for the kids, because I want my students to be able to give me honest answers about how they feel. If their parents are there like, they might-- they might change it, or, you know, I want it to be as honest as possible. And even on Zoom, I could do breakout rooms and things like that. My kids hate that. They hate the breakout rooms. And I'll pop in and join each room to hear their conversation like I would if I'm walking around the classroom. And their cameras are off, everyone's on mute, and I'm like, "Did you guys discuss?" And they're like, "Yep." (laughs) Okay, so it's just like, I don't know what to believe. Um-- But see the thing is, with discussions of race, we need to have that honesty, and we need to have that vulnerability. But I don't know if I'm going to get that from them in this way, you know? And so that's why a part of me is just trying to feed it to them a little bit at a time. So that, I'm really hoping we get to a point where if we're not all back in person, obviously, because of COVID, at least comfortable enough to talk about this candidly on Zoom. Because I'm not going to--I don't want to talk about it for the sake of talking about it, and it go in vain. Like, I want it to mean something to them, especially the eighth graders, because there's just so much potential in that class. But they just they haven't tapped into it yet. So-- I feel like that's-- I mean, it's just another one of the things that's so hard about all of this situation. Okay. We're all supposed to ask like, Is there a question that I should have asked you that I didn't ask or is there like anything that you want to talk about that didn't ever come up? No, I mean--

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Okay. (both laugh) --Yeah. Alright. Well, thank you so much. I-- I feel like everything that's happened this year, teachers are, like right in the middle of it, but no-- everybody's writing-- like I've read so many articles about like, Should we open, should we not? And, What are teachers doing, and how are they fixing racism? But I feel like there's so little of actually talking to teachers or getting their perspective. So I feel like this was really powerful that I could do this with you, and I can get you in the next couple of days-- I'm gonna stop recording.