00:00:02.900 - 00:00:10.180

I got them all on the board. You've got a lot of photographs I'd like to look at. The key pictures you've got

00:00:10.180 - 00:00:21.200

hanging right here. The Bannockburn, the driveway, the houses and so on. If you want to videotape some of

00:00:21.200 - 00:00:30.240

my pictures, I got them in books, an eight by 10 book, and I also have the eight by 10. Rick, listen to this, because he's a professional photographer and he's got a lot of material.

00:00:30.240 - 00:00:46.320

The pictures you see up there, those 8x10 black and white, that's mine. Now, I have a swimming team on a 30x40 board mounted, and the 8x10s, every year, as the kids

00:00:46.320 - 00:00:53.860

grew up. And the kids who were this little on the swimming team, all of a sudden are now pool managers. That's definitely a good point.

00:00:53.860 - 00:01:01.840

That would be neat to have. We also do things where we, well, we take slides and project them on a screen, of course. And we also do things where we

00:01:01.840 - 00:01:08.440

dissolve from one to the other. Yeah, but I'm just saying, I have the material if you want to, when you're around, you're welcome to use it.

00:01:08.480 - 00:01:15.820

I mean, if you want to copy it. Yeah. I'd like for Rick especially to come over and see the things you have.

00:01:15.820 - 00:01:21.580

Well, you could borrow it. I mean, on a 30 by 40 sheet and you take it out to your place. You could probably bring it back a

00:01:21.580 - 00:01:28.040

day or two later. You could do a nice sequence of superimposed elements. You'll see those kids grow up.

00:01:28.040 - 00:01:34.780

A little bigger each year. Because I have them black and white, you know, these are black and white. I like black and white because it establishes that it's old.

00:01:35.740 - 00:01:48.060

It shows all the dates, the year and date on it. So I'm just, mainly I came up on you. You're competing with Nancy Reagan, you know that. What? You're competing with Nancy

00:01:48.060 - 00:01:55.030

Reagan. She's on TV? Yeah, she's wrote a book... She was on 60 minutes tonight, I

00:01:55.030 - 00:02:03.780

missed it. He gave her the one-two. Why did you get the stars? And your husband... I'm competing with a lot of things.

00:02:04.300 - 00:02:17.000

I put the announcement in the newsletter thinking, well, people who are interested, will come. Everybody called me a saint. After she wrote the book, and she wrote the book and these comments,

00:02:17.080 - 00:02:26.320

I wonder if we ever had a president. What kind of present was he? What is he? I mean such a... Was he a figment of her

00:02:26.320 - 00:02:38.420

imagination? So what are they asking her? Well, it's true. I mean, he didn't call a meeting. But mainly about the meetings, he didn't call a press conference

00:02:38.420 - 00:02:43.080

unless the... Gorbachev. Yeah, the stars. Power of the stars.

00:02:43.080 - 00:02:47.960

It's a full moon tonight. That's significant. Oh yeah, I know that. She's into astrology.

00:02:48.720 - 00:02:56.310

Some substance around the country. Anyhow, what would you like while we're here? I'm going to spend all evening here.

00:02:56.310 - 00:03:03.810

I'm just coming up to say, what would you like this evening from us? I thought I'd come up only to mention the fact how I came to Bannockburn.

00:03:05.180 - 00:03:16.360

You see, what was interesting the last time we did it was that people's memories set off each other. So I'm hoping that that will

00:03:16.360 - 00:03:22.000

happen tonight too. But really, that's what I'm interested in. Those early stages and even

00:03:22.000 - 00:03:30.200

pre-Bannockburn, you know, the struggles of how it came to be and all those. We weren't involved. We weren't involved.

00:03:30.200 - 00:03:40.680

I see we came in. But you were here? We came in '51. I mean, you watched your house be built, right? I have each picture.

00:03:40.680 - 00:03:51.180

I got the footings, I got the wild woods, step by step of the whole house. Otherwise, we have a picture showing the lot, and then it's being cleared, and then it's the footings, and then it's the

00:03:51.180 - 00:04:03.220

frames. And now you've got Billy sitting in the bathtub. Glad you came.

00:04:07.300 - 00:04:15.800

Summertime. Isn't it? 80 and a half. Can't believe it.

00:04:15.830 - 00:04:21.560

You know I was running the fan, our neighbors were running the air conditioning. You know that they, you know that they I know that they, we've got to call him.

00:04:21.740 - 00:04:34.940

So that's basically, I basically.... Also, you know, amusing stories, funny things that happened with kids, funny things that happened. The only thing that I can think

00:04:34.940 - 00:04:45.840

of, of interest is how we got here and secondly, how we got started with the Halloween party, which I remember, which I doubt that Sam even remembers. Right, the Halloween party.

00:04:46.020 - 00:04:51.340

The Halloween party started on Bannockburn. Started on the block party. No, we started down on Bannockburn Drive.

00:04:51.340 - 00:05:02.720

That's right. We had a lot of timber, wood, and we had a big fire. The Tourins were organizing, and we had just moved in about maybe a few weeks or not even that long, I think, before.

00:05:02.760 - 00:05:10.120

They came and asked us, could we do something with the kids with folk dancing. That's how we got involved. We were very deeply involved in folk dancing.

00:05:10.340 - 00:05:21.420

That's where we started. So, they were burning like the trash? No, the house being built on Bannockburn Drive.

00:05:22.100 - 00:05:26.110

Well, maybe just to keep warm, but there was a Halloween party, a block party. They were burning the tr? No, the house was being built. No, they were probably just to keep warm.

00:05:26.110 - 00:05:32.440

It was a Halloween party. It was a block party. Yeah, and we had the old timbers left over from the houses piled up in a pile, and we had a big fire.

00:05:34.120 - 00:05:44.220

That's when our first dancing came in. And one year, in that first five we were here, it rained or something and we had that huge

00:05:44.220 - 00:05:51.360

party in here. Oh yes. And I'll never forget you leading that trail around. It was limited space.

00:05:51.420 - 00:05:57.440

And I think we were 200 people. Yes. Probably at that time. We used to have three circles down the pool.

00:05:57.660 - 00:06:08.240

The little ones, the bigger ones, and still bigger ones. Even I remember that. And what was nice, we had a 50th, we had a Halloween party and the big accuser came back home from

00:06:08.240 - 00:06:19.100

college, got in the middle and helped lead the dances. He says, "We grew up with these, we want our little kids to grow up with this." It was a good feeling. What happened, they went to Hershes.

00:06:19.280 - 00:06:29.140

You know, the Hershes have this, what do they have, honey? What do they call it? A circus. A circus? You know, a fruit hanging and so on.

00:06:29.140 - 00:06:39.360

It had been had since 1950. It reminds all the neighbors. Well, we went there today and it was the ex-neighbor who lived across from the Wellings house.

00:06:42.340 - 00:06:50.880

The girl, remember? Oh, right next to the Wellings. Nelson. Oh, Margaret who lives in Glen Echo.

00:06:51.980 - 00:06:56.840

Well, she was there, And she says, "I remember you. I was this little." And there for her.

00:06:56.840 - 00:07:05.080

She said, and then both of them said, "Oh, you were a very important part of our childhood." Absolutely. I said, yes, you kids grew up, I

00:07:05.080 - 00:07:16.720

still remain the same. There were 200 in the community, probably 200 in the community? About 200 kids. We had about 40 on our street.

00:07:16.720 - 00:07:20.250

On our street, down in our house, and yours was five. With Delaplaine. Delaplaine.

00:07:20.650 - 00:07:26.820

Big families in those. Delaplaine, Stambler, five, that's 10. Stambler, four. We were the only ones with five.

00:07:26.820 - 00:07:40.360

We got across the street, what's his name? The Rosses. The old, the other Rosses. Four, Hans Heyman.

00:07:40.460 - 00:07:47.080

Hans Heyman, yeah. And we had 40 kids in just one block. Was the swimming pool all Bannockburn? Did it take out some of the outsiders?

00:07:47.200 - 00:07:55.760

Oh, yes. Oh, no. Bannockburn was enough? Yeah, sorry, we were, we had so... At the beginning we still were

00:07:55.760 - 00:08:07.620

outsiders because we didn't have any kids and we liked hiking and backpacking and everybody's business. We just lived here. That's all.

00:08:08.480 - 00:08:14.520

That's all. With Mike, he finally made it. So Mike, you can't find him ever again. I lived here and just grew flowers.

00:08:16.620 - 00:08:27.880

As you see, they just grow all by themselves. Ah ha ha. There's no assist from her at all. They just grow by themselves.

00:08:27.880 - 00:08:35.820

Funny, the other day, the other day, a car stopped with a diplomatic license plate. She said, "I see you working all the time. This job's beautiful.

00:08:36.020 - 00:08:49.860

You're a gardener, right? I'd like to hire you." [laughter] "You're the gardener. I see you working." That's not our next door neighbor, is it? No. No, no. That's not it.

00:08:49.990 - 00:09:06.740

Isn't that diplomatic plates? "I sleep with the madam." I've heard blacks telling that story mowing their own lawn,and they and they get that invitation he says "Yes, and I sleep with the madam too." [laughter] You know what impatiens

00:09:06.740 - 00:09:11.360

look like? Impatient plants? Yeah. You do? Patient plants.

00:09:11.910 - 00:09:15.220

Impatiens. Impatients. The flower. Yeah.

00:09:15.480 - 00:09:22.360

Yeah. Well, our yard is just like the whole floor covered with it. They reseed themselves. They're like nuisances.

00:09:22.360 - 00:09:27.120

Well, let's see. A little nuisance, go away. When did you come, Esther? November '56. Oh, that's...

00:09:27.120 - 00:09:39.060

Yeah. We... That's five years earlier, four years.

00:09:39.860 - 00:09:49.300

We actually moved in in 51, but we had gotten involved in 50. And we bought the lot first, what would happen.

00:09:49.540 - 00:09:57.280

Is this being taped? Good. We saw the Merrimack house over in Langley Park and we liked it.

00:09:57.340 - 00:10:03.890

We found out that it was all sold out. What was the name of the builder? Becker and? Becker and Rackusin.

00:10:04.280 - 00:10:12.080

Rackusin. They said they were all sold out, but they were building next year, and which was a much better neighborhood anyway.

00:10:14.100 - 00:10:29.780

So we had friends who had a membership here and also had a $1,000 deposit. So we took over their deposit and we bought a lot before they actually started building.

00:10:31.500 - 00:10:36.140

And when they started building, they had their house. What's your name? Your name wasn't even there.

00:10:37.200 - 00:10:45.280

Well, the name was Marie and Fred Mongle. That's how we got in here. Well, I think it was that Halloween party that probably sold

00:10:45.280 - 00:10:59.280

us the house, because I think we were house hunting and came into this community that already, and people said, "You're looking for a house, we're having this Halloween party, come and see the community in action." And I don't know whether we came

00:10:59.280 - 00:11:11.320

to that first one. I remember Halloween party and Edith Blackman on Bannockburn Drive, But whether it was '55 or '56, when we were almost ready to move in.

00:11:11.320 - 00:11:21.040

But that so endeared us that the community that cared about its kids that much, that they were pitching in together to do that party. It was very important.

00:11:21.040 - 00:11:30.420

Plus the fact that the pool was being built. That wasn't the first Halloween party. No, it wasn't. It wasn't, but it was what sold

00:11:30.420 - 00:11:37.060

us. Do you remember where it was? In the area? Yes, right in the, just above the incline of Bannockburn Drive.

00:11:37.060 - 00:11:40.840

I remember, about at the Nelson houses. You couldn't go any further. Oh right.

00:11:42.060 - 00:11:58.940

And yes I do. I can't say I remember you but I do remember the activity of it. It just spelled community to our family. These institutions that go on and on, have had a similar attraction.

00:12:00.260 - 00:12:12.540

What was the party like? Just tell the story. What was that typical, a typical party like the first one you went to? It was all the kids getting out and being seen getting dressed up, the way kids want to get dressed

00:12:12.540 - 00:12:23.680

u,p and the mothers and daddies pitching in and supplying the food and and.... And we have a little parade. And we paraded, but it gave it gave an importance to Halloween in

00:12:23.680 - 00:12:30.040

the kids' eyes. Yeah. And was it here, in this? It was out physically, just a block away from here.

00:12:30.200 - 00:12:36.420

And there was space, you see, to march all around the community. The community was only a third built at that point.

00:12:38.760 - 00:12:48.840

This is a way a newcomer just could get drawn into things and pick up and meet people. Your kids were meeting people. It was a very nice, We hadn't

00:12:48.840 - 00:13:00.660

moved in yet, or maybe our house was being built, I forget which, but already you were being drawn in. Because it says something about family and the sense of family that was important here.

00:13:00.660 - 00:13:07.340

And that was the draw. Not these dumb houses, I thought the houses were all pretty dumb. [laughter. I didn't want to live here in any

00:13:07.340 - 00:13:17.220

of these houses, but I was drawn to the feeling, both of us, the feeling of community. And it hasn't changed. I mean The Halloween party is still the same way.

00:13:17.800 - 00:13:25.640

Is it the same place? No, it's right out here. It's right out here now. They've graduated from the block party down to the pool, where the pool was built.

00:13:25.640 - 00:13:31.960

We used to have it down at the pool for a long time. And just in the last few years, it's been getting better. Because this wasn't as lovely. This would have been the best

00:13:31.960 - 00:13:42.440

place of all, but it wasn't this cleared out. There wasn't this kind of space. The children march around and then they're giving, what are they given, candy?

00:13:44.240 - 00:13:58.680

No, no, no. This was originally intended to make it so that the kids only went out on Halloween night for trick or treat, that they didn't go out the night before like they do in a lot of communities, go out two nights.

00:13:59.340 - 00:14:05.560

And this enabled the little children to be part of it too, the kids who couldn't go out with their bags. That was the original idea.

00:14:08.520 - 00:14:19.080

And Sam and Millie both, you know, they would folk dance. They don't do the folk dancing so much anymore. No, the children aren't, the kids aren't interested in that anymore. They like their games.

00:14:20.380 - 00:14:31.980

The last time we did it, there were about six kids, about two years old, trying to dance. They were too young and nobody doing anything other than that. So we decided there was no point in trying anymore.

00:14:32.640 - 00:14:39.000

Dancing is out for little kids. It's out. They're not interested. Competitive sports have taken

00:14:39.000 - 00:14:47.940

over. What happened, I came up here to nursery school, and they asked me to have a Halloween a year or so ago.

00:14:48.420 - 00:14:55.020

And the kids are so small, I could only use one dance, the seven jumps, you know, where you put one knee down. That's the only step.

00:14:55.580 - 00:15:07.600

But that's the one, that was the one that we always did. Yeah, that's the one I do for the little kids who had to, well, how old were they? At least three, four, three, four. But down the pool, when you got 10 years old, 14 years old, then you

00:15:07.600 - 00:15:12.100

go into the other. Sure. That's what they did. But anyway, what's left of it

00:15:12.100 - 00:15:16.620

still is the parade. Yeah, but the only thing that's left is the parade and the pool. And the hot dog, hamburgers.

00:15:16.620 - 00:15:22.640

And the food. And the time you see all your neighbors want to get down. That's what it's become now.

00:15:22.640 - 00:15:33.840

Reunions. And all the ones you don't know. But I feel they should say something. These kids are all usually behind their parents.

00:15:33.840 - 00:15:46.860

They should have one little parade and give away gifts, you know, they have these tickets, prizes, they should at least march them down and sit them in front, then give out the prizes. I think we must go back to that at least by two minutes.

00:15:46.860 - 00:15:55.080

We're going to try. We're going to try. It's hard to make changes. What about other things for the

00:15:55.080 - 00:16:03.800

children, the swimming pool courses? Other things that are for the children. What does the community do for the children? Swimming pool is a...

00:16:03.800 - 00:16:13.420

Swim team. Well, there's a 45-year-old nursery school here that started, and this is still going on. It's still going on.

00:16:15.060 - 00:16:27.750

Children who were here are now teaching in the school. But they made one improvement is that parents who work, they could stay later. The nursery school.

00:16:28.040 - 00:16:32.240

The nursery school. Instead of just the half day to go. Now we have a daycare at the

00:16:32.240 - 00:16:37.240

public school. So that's galloped ahead as needs have merged now. It's this there's been changes in

00:16:37.240 - 00:16:44.020

the... Fathers have gotten more involved now than they were in our da. You know the fathers some of them

00:16:44.020 - 00:16:55.220

now become the participating parent. We had a few. We let exceptions be made for those few professional women.

00:16:55.640 - 00:17:04.080

Right. Like the doctors among us. The doctors, their husbands. I think we had to vote it as board members of the nursery school.

00:17:04.080 - 00:17:14.740

That's right. The worries have had to change. And I think there's even some grandparents that come in and do their stint.

00:17:15.660 - 00:17:24.660

That's interesting. More and more that will happen as people, as the community ages. I think it's great. I mean the only thing the fathers

00:17:24.660 - 00:17:33.580

did when our kids were young was the physical work of preparing the Upkeep of playground equipment. Which I think they were doing yesterday.

00:17:33.580 - 00:17:44.600

There was a lot of noise out here. Well they still do that, but, you know. Well how did, say the swimming pool, how did it get, who organized it? What was their struggle?

00:17:48.360 - 00:18:01.060

Who started it, was it the Smalls I think, right? The Smalls and then Mel Pollock was the first president. Mel Pollock was the first president. The early dwellers immediately had that idea.

00:18:01.220 - 00:18:12.780

They had the idea, I mean, it wasn't the Bannockburn Court was being built, it was as the people moved in, quickly was spread around. Oh, I'm sure Mary Hurling had that

00:18:12.780 - 00:18:24.720

gleam in her eye when they had those meetings. The original plan was to have the pool up here, you know, on this area. And this whole area was supposed

00:18:24.720 - 00:18:33.960

to be shopping center, recreation, all that kind of thing. And it all fell through. But that was originally in the plan to have a pool.

00:18:34.640 - 00:18:40.000

Why did that fall through? Because of zoning. Zoning. It talked about having here.

00:18:40.000 - 00:18:42.660

They were supposed to have apartments here. They were supposed to have apartments.

00:18:42.660 - 00:18:55.850

Now, how much it would have been, they said, "You're moving those houses, and as you get old and kids leave to college, then you move into apartments which are already furnished and you have late service."

00:18:57.340 - 00:19:01.440

Retirement community. Like a retirement community. She had an idea. Like Leisure World. 50 years

00:19:01.440 - 00:19:07.310

ahead. But there was so much opposition to it, zoning and the planning program. They were ahead of the time 50 years ahead.

00:19:07.310 - 00:19:17.540

We couldn't get it. Right, now you wish, right? Now if this were a community for the senior citizens with medical care, et cetera....

00:19:20.320 - 00:19:30.160

So it was a sort of accounting thing that was doing people. I have the diagram in my files. It didn't fit in with the zoning and there was a lot of opposition.

00:19:30.900 - 00:19:34.410

You couldn't mix. Mix zoning. Mix zoning, yeah. Apartments.

00:19:34.410 - 00:19:47.720

But you plan to copy, I have actually a brochure that's shown the layout where the shopping center was here, the swimming pool, and these houses. You could tie that in if you want

00:19:47.720 - 00:19:54.360

to copy that. I'd like to see that, just for my interest. Because now, wouldn't that be the

00:19:54.360 - 00:20:06.800

idea? That's quite the thing now. They went ahead in time, 50 years, and that zoning was. Of course, now the community has a ruckus when people want to put up townhouses.

00:20:06.980 - 00:20:13.720

Oh, right. To circle, it's come full circle. But this was different. It was probably more of a profit, and then it was part of a more of

00:20:13.720 - 00:20:26.600

an eye-candy. But this was basically for senior citizens, senior business come in, just like a retirement community. And you would have maid service and house cleaning because you

00:20:26.600 - 00:20:38.420

needed it. That was the original plan. In the '50s when I used to be getting dinner for those five kids, not liking to cook very much, I used to think, there's

00:20:38.420 - 00:20:53.500

that clubhouse up there where we could be having a community meal. And I could be cooking with all those other women that I never have time enough to spend with, those interesting people, and we could be feeding our families together.

00:20:53.820 - 00:21:11.540

You know, why, why do I, am I stuck all by myself preparing these everlasting meals? I never did a thing about it. What a wonderful, radical, beautiful [idea?]. I could easily, I can still feel the outrage alone.

00:21:11.640 - 00:21:22.620

Every woman is in her kitchen from five to six preparing a meal. Think of the fun we'd have to do it together. I probably didn't even know the word kibbutz in my head, but I sure had the model.

00:21:23.420 - 00:21:31.640

And it was that some of us didn't get together. Maybe the kitchen didn't exist here, but the nursery school was so important in our lives.

00:21:31.640 - 00:21:43.760

And so the community house had a, it was your home away from home. We had meetings here and we had our big gala here, but it wasn't solving. It was endless.

00:21:46.060 - 00:21:58.280

Peeling and cutting and frying. What do you finally think that there's so little activity in this clubhouse now? I mean, I've been reading the back issues of the newsletter of the

00:21:58.280 - 00:22:04.810

newsletter and it seems to come and go in waves, the community activism... Well, we got the school the school Marianne.

00:22:04.900 - 00:22:13.320

So the things that used to happen here functioned at the school. Is that what it is? Look at the school now, this new gym and everything, and its

00:22:13.320 - 00:22:17.900

daycare center. No, I think things moved up to the schoolhouse. I don't bemoan.

00:22:19.120 - 00:22:32.860

So, But I even seem to remember more sort of social action things and Oh, yeah, because we were doing social action things. Yeah. Yeah, I'm going back.

00:22:32.860 - 00:22:47.200

I was just reading your biography in one of the Meet Your Neighbor columns. And all of those things that you were involved with, with friends, and I mean, with the Friends.

00:22:48.060 - 00:22:55.000

And you're skipping a very important time. Remember, there was a babysitting club. Remember, you had a babysitting club? Yes, that answers your question.

00:22:55.000 - 00:23:07.400

Co-op We had a babysitting. Because I remember I used to babysit for somebody else, and they'd babysit for you, and you went out. Parents took care of each other's children.

00:23:07.600 - 00:23:15.920

And there was a bookkeeping thing. There was some kind of a little organization? It was a baby, the club, and somebody was the secretary for each month.

00:23:16.240 - 00:23:20.820

It just circulated. They'd keep a record of how many hours they had. Saved a lot of cash.

00:23:21.220 - 00:23:32.240

I remember how your system worked. You called somebody and then, how did you remember, Mil? Not exactly. I guess you had to call the secretary and ask, or a sitter,

00:23:32.240 - 00:23:48.740

and then they recorded how many hours of convention were used. So you had credit for the hours you sat, so the next time you wanted someone to sit for you, you got those hours exchanged. And that's how I got to know most of the people that I knew around

00:23:48.740 - 00:24:00.840

here, was sitting in their houses. We used to sit on weekends because our activities were during the week, our folk dancing activities were during the week, Thursday and Friday.

00:24:01.020 - 00:24:10.320

So you were greatly in demand. So we always were sitting Saturday and Sunday, in somebody's home. And that was right.

00:24:10.320 - 00:24:21.520

The exchange was hours. Even if you had five kids, you still only got the same number of hours as if you had one. Large families, there you go.

00:24:22.660 - 00:24:38.840

Families were so large. Any of the names, any significance to the street names, Selkirk, Drive, or whatever, Owen Place? Well, Owen Place, definitely. Owen Place, is there any reason to anybody?

00:24:38.840 - 00:24:41.560

Oh, sure. What is that? I never heard of it. I never heard of it.

00:24:41.560 - 00:24:47.220

Oh the co-op. Owen Place was named after Robert Owen. Utopian.

00:24:47.980 - 00:24:56.010

Utopianist. I don't know what you call it. He founded Harmony. Who is he?

00:24:56.010 - 00:25:06.380

He started out in Scotland, but then he came to the States. New Harmony or something. New Harmony in the midwest, in Ohio What part did he play? It was a Utopian Community, which

00:25:06.380 - 00:25:22.060

would be totally cooperative. 200 families living together. Halbert, you know, Halbert is famous for that, the cooperators. In fact, there's a monument up on the hook of East Halbert.

00:25:22.060 - 00:25:27.670

There's a monument Halbert. There's a monument Halbert. There's a monument up there with a bench and a pie. Chess, a chess table.

00:25:27.740 - 00:25:39.720

An amazing part, at the Bethesda lawn place, is his grandson there. Where? His grandson has the lawn mower repair place.

00:25:39.720 - 00:25:44.060

Lawn mower repair place. He's part owner of it. Is that right. It's a small world.

00:25:44.060 - 00:25:49.660

I put my mower in. He says, I said, I lift the rest out. He says, my grand, what did he

00:25:49.660 - 00:25:55.210

say? His name? His grandfather. His grandfather. That's what he's named after him.

00:25:56.480 - 00:26:05.360

So it's a small world. Who named the streets Halbert? Huh? Who named the streets in Bannockburn? Ted Knight.

00:26:07.990 - 00:26:17.300

Sandy Stevenson knows quite a bit about that. Obviously it wasn't the county. The county, especially back then— Builders named streets, but I

00:26:17.300 - 00:26:26.840

imagine the early ones were named by the co-op. So ask the folks over on Wilson Lane because they're all big part of the co-op. Yeah, they're really fun.

00:26:26.840 - 00:26:43.720

The people on Wilson Lane are really fun. They would know more. It's their history. The Smalls would know, they were in the beginning.

00:26:45.950 - 00:26:53.820

Halbert, Halbert, well of course originally since it was named Bannockburn golf club, they went for Scottish names. Ban-knock-burn. [knocking sound].

00:27:07.420 - 00:27:19.060

I think all the Scottish names relate to the Scottish name of the club. That's an important thing for you to pin down.

00:27:20.380 - 00:27:39.060

Halbert and Owen and who named it. The names are always sort of a clue into a community. Already it's very important that there are these utopian idealists who some streets were named after.

00:27:40.240 - 00:27:51.080

It's better than Cinnamon Drive, you have that in Germantown Especially ion who you have, You have this little plaque there. Where is the plaque?

00:27:51.600 - 00:27:55.140

On West Halbert. No, it's on the hook of East Halbert. East Halbert.

00:27:56.680 - 00:28:05.550

You go to Bannockburn Drive, make a left turn. On the street signpost? No, no, no. It's a little chess table with a bench. Right at the top of the hill.

00:28:05.550 - 00:28:15.300

It's behind Minland's house and the Greer's house. The Greers are here and Minland is here. I forget this family's name. It sits right there.

00:28:15.300 - 00:28:22.180

It's where I always cut down the lawn. Instead of walking all the way out of the hook, you just go down that lawn. There must be some right-of-way

00:28:22.200 - 00:28:30.160

there, the fact that they put that monument there. On to Bannockburn. Yeah. So I always pretend it's public access.

00:28:33.220 - 00:28:43.980

It was in terrible repair the last time I saw it, which was shortly after the storm. I walked down there. Any other, either monuments or special, even just a special place

00:28:43.980 - 00:28:56.180

or a community place? But like behind you, Mary Andrews, of course, the valley is a special place. A very special place that now you can't get to. I tried to get there from my house, which is always the way I

00:28:56.180 - 00:29:05.460

walked to MacArthur Boulevard. You can't get down there because of storm damage? Right. The tree, the brush, I could get down my own through my own woods,

00:29:05.660 - 00:29:20.050

but then I was blocked by—I went around several. I just quit and went up into Braeburn, a trespass. Yeah, you can't—the storm did a lot of damage. Well, it's overgrown now, but years ago we had the Cub Scouts

00:29:20.050 - 00:29:32.920

and Boy Scouts games down there, baseball. Well, we used to have a day camp in that valley, too. We used every square inch of that valley for summer time. Something else for children was Stacy Brooks was instrumental in

00:29:32.920 - 00:29:47.920

organizing the Y day camp program. As our little children could use the swimming pool, but still the summers were long, and in that five to ten year old age, the Y had a six week day care program,

00:29:47.980 - 00:30:03.900

and we used our own public property. The groups had little den-assigned territories. It was often turned out to be in our own backyards. The boys' gym class, or whatever they called it, down in the old

00:30:03.900 - 00:30:11.180

tennis courts. We had a physical ed teacher, soccer and baseball at the old tennis courts. That's right.

00:30:11.580 - 00:30:20.420

But it was clay then. The county in those days did not have the big recreation as extensive. So we had to organize our own.

00:30:20.420 - 00:30:27.900

Golf course was a tennis court. They did actually play tennis. Yeah, when it was a golf course. It was a clay tennis court.

00:30:27.900 - 00:30:33.540

Clay court, yeah. But then when the community came, then it... Then it had been abandoned before

00:30:33.540 - 00:30:44.700

that. And then they built— And then there was this other thing where they tried to rebuild it and— It didn't work out.

00:30:44.920 - 00:30:51.450

It just didn't work out. That happened in the '60s. Yeah. What happened— Did they ever play on that?

00:30:51.450 - 00:30:58.300

Yes. It was marvelous. One season and then the neighbors found it intolerable. So it closed.

00:30:59.060 - 00:31:06.240

So now it's just overgrown. Oh yeah. It's terrible. But it is public or community property.

00:31:06.660 - 00:31:13.020

It's community property. We just lost the money it took to build tennis courts. Yeah.

00:31:13.180 - 00:31:18.580

Two tennis courts. Right. We should never have located it there. It just didn't work out.

00:31:18.580 - 00:31:25.240

We should have put it down in the valley. Yeah, it didn't work out. The zoning was that they had to have so much space between that

00:31:25.240 - 00:31:39.060

and the property, which it never was, and there was no permit. They went and built things, and you know. And after it was built, there was a little problem, and the neighbors said, "Look, let the kids play.

00:31:39.060 - 00:31:47.590

You adults could go and play tennis at the tennis courts across the—" and they refused to cooperate, and that was the problem. We had one at the embassy.

00:31:47.590 - 00:32:08.070

We had one hard, but we had to get this done illegally anyway. It was full of [imitates tennis sounds] all day long. Do you know what the various technical borders are between county property, community property.

00:32:08.860 - 00:32:23.500

You mean the right of ways too? Yeah, like the valley. What is the valley? The valley belongs to BCI. The entire valley does? Yes, up to the pool. I heard we ceded it to the county.

00:32:24.320 - 00:32:29.700

I always understood that we had ceded it to the county. No, not yet. Because we didn't want to pay taxes on it.

00:32:29.700 - 00:32:36.300

I don't know, not that I know of. No, We're not paying taxes on it. We never turned it over. We have a tax exemption for the

00:32:36.500 - 00:32:47.080

clubhouse. We always assumed that we are paying taxes on that, because that was our frontage. You know, so, I've never been clear about that.

00:32:47.080 - 00:32:52.920

I've never understood why. No. We don't pay taxes on the clubhouse. Community property, any of the

00:32:52.920 - 00:33:03.360

community property, it's all exempt. Now, there was a time when they did collect, I think. And they got it exempted again. Well, wasn't Hoagy saying last

00:33:03.360 - 00:33:20.980

week that the county was planning to build a road, but then some people of the community bought extra land up the farm? Do I have that story right? That some people bought extra land to make it much more difficult for the county to build a road in that

00:33:20.980 - 00:33:29.060

valley? Well, I've just heard lots of different conflicting stories. I think there was originally supposed to have been a road down there, but they found it

00:33:29.060 - 00:33:38.300

impossible. It's like the road would have run through where the pool is, I think. The creek? I don't know.

00:33:38.400 - 00:33:48.020

What Hoagy was saying was the fact that five people, Sayers is one of them. They bought land. How many acres? Four acres?

00:33:48.120 - 00:33:57.640

An acre and a half? It was an acre and a half. They bought land so that the pool couldn't expand too much, I think. There was an acre and a half. They bought the land, five

00:33:57.640 - 00:34:05.050

members, and just as a buffer zone, just for no development, keep it wild. And five people. But I don't think it had anything to do with that.

00:34:05.050 - 00:34:12.740

It has nothing to do with... That was on the other side. That was the other side of the pool. Sarah, what's the name of Sarah? Mary Sarah, she's involved.

00:34:12.740 - 00:34:24.800

She gets the details from her, but I'm not knowing the details. She would know exactly who the other four people are. I'm just even thinking about what's in back of our place. Well, the valley down there, that's community land.

00:34:24.800 - 00:34:38.960

As far as I know, unless some changes been made. We played soccer and volleyball down there. We had a baseball field down near the pool, that good one. In the little one? Yes, with a wire fence and so on.

00:34:40.080 - 00:34:48.360

Wow. The path is, I don't know if you've been down there, but the path is totally inaccessible now. You can't get down there then.

00:34:49.360 - 00:35:03.420

No, that's wild. We need a Boy Scout troop to take over the project or two. This takes, I think, even more than Boy Scouts. We had a very good Cub Scouts and a Boy Scout troop, and we used to

00:35:03.420 - 00:35:09.140

build bridges. They had a lot of good projects in the community. The last thing they did, I don't

00:35:09.140 - 00:35:19.160

know if it was the Boy Scouts, I don't know who it was, I think it was a Boy Scout troop. They were doing their good deed, and they put up a playground, and it turned out that they'd done it

00:35:19.160 - 00:35:30.160

on the Bradleys' private property. They didn't know it. [laughter. Cat meows.] The Bradleys were very

00:35:30.160 - 00:35:44.700

nice and let them leave it there. So you, now do you, the visual part on this taping, when you're ready, give me a call and I'll turn, certain things you can borrow.

00:35:45.020 - 00:35:57.100

Well, just, even just a common book, that would be good. You still have some pictures, Halloween party pictures? Or slides? We had a few... Do you need slides? What did you end the results,

00:35:57.100 - 00:36:10.840

slides or on tape? Mixed media performance. It includes actors, a few actors, half a dozen. Slides? No, half a dozen actors enacting some of the stories that we all are telling.

00:36:10.840 - 00:36:22.740

Yeah, what you said, mentioned with the checks and… And slides as a backdrop, is likely, at least. Not video, you're not going to… Not…[cat meows] well, we… no, Not planned at this moment, but Miriam

00:36:22.740 - 00:36:38.040

and I were just talking before we came here about our Brunswick piece, and we are doing it as a video. We did a performance in Brunswick for the community, and now they're going to do some video archival type work.

00:36:38.040 - 00:36:49.200

Well, I might have some slides, especially the faces. I got... Yeah, I'm sure you probably do. Well, some slides which you definitely would want is, I gave

00:36:49.200 - 00:36:53.800

to, who is the clown, what's her name? McGiller. McGill. Gloria.

00:36:53.800 - 00:36:56.320

Gloria McGiller. She's a painter. Well, I gave her husband. I went to the file.

00:36:56.320 - 00:37:00.280

Everything I had of her I gave to her, or him. Gave to him. And he could borrow them.

00:37:00.540 - 00:37:07.580

They're Sneiderman, all made up. People's slides or people photographs are great, whether it's single. Well, I get all these faces of the

00:37:07.580 - 00:37:22.040

beautiful costumes. Oh. Some of her, she's got great. Give me a little time if you will, notice to get it together. Well, what happens with the material then is that I'll now put

00:37:22.040 - 00:37:34.000

a script together and it won't be in totality about Bannockburn. There's a lot of preamble and postamble, but the Bannockburn story will be there too. But I got these beautiful, just

00:37:34.000 - 00:37:42.680

the face of the makeup and Japanese with a Latin clown. Really. Well, I don't, you know, there's so many people in the community that have wonderful archival

00:37:43.540 - 00:37:50.560

stuff. I mean, Hoagy has a lot of stuff too. The thing on the shows, everything

00:37:50.580 - 00:38:05.220

I did, I used to give the slides to the director. Herb? Siegels? The Siegels? No. Not them? Blinder? Reifman.

00:38:05.220 - 00:38:09.520

Reifman. Reifman. I gave everything I had in slides. Oh, he's got them, huh?

00:38:09.520 - 00:38:13.860

Because he came to the last session. Because I was... They talked a lot about their shows at the last session.

00:38:13.860 - 00:38:22.900

I used to shoot two rolls of film, and I threw it, and I gave him the finished product. There's a lot of material. Reading some of these back issues

00:38:22.900 - 00:38:38.140

of the newsletter is just so much fun. I'm reconstructing the entire ethos of the place over the span of years, you know, because they go back to 1950. I think the newsletter started in about 1952.

00:38:39.720 - 00:38:45.800

So I'm up to '66 right now. It's taken weeks. Wasn't there a book on Bannockburn? Yeah.

00:38:45.800 - 00:38:55.580

Yeah, there's a history. What we're discussing now is in it? Some of it is, but the more personal things aren't. I'd like to hear more about that.

00:38:56.120 - 00:39:05.520

You said you came by accident, but it wasn't exactly an accident. They were chasing a house plan. We were looking for a house.

00:39:06.280 - 00:39:16.620

We told about the community and we knew we had a friend who had an investment here. So we, then they had in the meantime bought another house because they couldn't wait.

00:39:16.800 - 00:39:22.320

So they had the money tied up and couldn't get it back. So we took over theirs. Took over $1,000.

00:39:23.000 - 00:39:35.840

So you had the Merrimack. You have the slab, right? We have the slab, yeah. And yours was more custom designed, right? No, Cook took over after Merrimack.

00:39:36.400 - 00:39:47.640

And the custom part was because we bought the house from a plan and we just worked with him to change the plans. But no, it was the same house. He only built four of those, four

00:39:47.640 - 00:39:56.520

or five of our model. Yours is the only one that looks like that in Bannockburn. Right, because we changed the

00:39:56.520 - 00:40:01.820

roof. We changed the roof. But I mean, that was working with the builder, but It still was a project house.

00:40:04.860 - 00:40:16.920

Somebody, let's see, I spoke to, I guess it was Milton Chase who was talking about when they originally would have the meetings and one of the big premises was that they were going to have no two houses alike on the same block.

00:40:19.320 - 00:40:29.060

And he was laughing about that, because you know, the next thing you knew, everybody had a Merrimack. Well, yeah, because they ran into financial problems with the architect.

00:40:29.060 - 00:40:41.440

Do you know anything about some of those? Well, I don't know, only what I hear that, you know, they originally started with the houses on Wilson Lane, and they ran into problems, financial problems,

00:40:41.600 - 00:40:53.760

paying the architect and so on. So the only way they could get the other houses built was by going with someone like Merrimack Houses and getting ahold of them at a reasonable price.

00:40:54.520 - 00:40:59.120

What's his last name? Becker and... Rackusin. Backer and Reckusin [sic] was two partners.

00:40:59.760 - 00:41:04.860

We saw that Merrimack House. I've seen them in Langley Park. I know exactly where they are. On Quebec Street.

00:41:05.280 - 00:41:12.340

This is on Massachusetts Avenue. Yeah, but that's after this. The first house he built was in Tacoma Park.

00:41:12.340 - 00:41:16.040

Langley Park. Langley Park. And we liked that house. I liked the layout.

00:41:16.840 - 00:41:27.360

And then we want—they told us, well, we sold all here, but the building in Langley Park— And then the friend of ours had a thousand dollars invested here. He was going to lose it because he had a house.

00:41:27.360 - 00:41:35.460

That's how we got it. So that came after that first lot on Wilson. Oh, yes.

00:41:35.460 - 00:41:41.520

They were built like '48. They weren't built lby a builder. They weren't tract houses. They weren't tract houses.

00:41:41.520 - 00:41:51.540

They were individually. The first was Bannockburn Drive. No, The first was Wilson Lane. I'm talking about Merrimack

00:41:51.540 - 00:41:58.300

Houses. Then this was the second unit. What was here besides the building? Before the houses What happened here?

00:41:59.840 - 00:42:12.340

We came over here, and we came out here at night time and we said, "Which lot should we get?" So we went over to Bellman's house. I sure enough, we heard a trolley ringing. We heard a trolley ringing.

00:42:12.340 - 00:42:20.360

We looked at what was now the Sternville lot, we looked at what was now the Bellman's. We said, "Too close to the trolley, let's move back." Move back.

00:42:20.380 - 00:42:31.780

And that's how we got this lot. And it was $3,000. $7,000. And you know what the cost is now, 45 years later.

00:42:33.260 - 00:42:40.520

Yeah, forget it. Wow. And what is that? A hundred, 150,000, a lot or not? A hundred thousand.

00:42:40.520 - 00:42:52.170

A hundred thousand minimum. That's just ridiculous. I saw a thing in the paper about the house on Selkirk that's being built?

00:42:52.680 - 00:43:03.600

I think it's about 1.75 million. By the way, that's being built by two Bannockburn ex-nursery school boys. Who is that? Oh, they're classmates of our

00:43:03.600 - 00:43:13.880

sons. Neil and—Catena's boy and— George, yeah. And—the name is on it.

00:43:14.280 - 00:43:29.560

Neil. Anyway, they were, I think, either Bruce's year, he was born in '56, he was '55 or ''56, 57, they're that age, but they're the ones that have built that most.

00:43:30.560 - 00:43:42.340

But you had so many interesting choices at the beginning. Just adventure? You could have a porch, or you could have the floors, wooden floors, and all I know is when I moved in in 19...

00:43:43.140 - 00:43:53.420

We moved in '51. In '51, you know, and never in my wildest dream could I think, here I have a house, there's a clubhouse, and a swimming pool. I felt like a millionaire.

00:43:53.420 - 00:43:58.140

The pool wasn't here yet. They didn't get here until 1956. Didn't we feel rich? They were thinking about it.

00:43:58.140 - 00:44:07.180

I felt like a millionaire. I'm sitting at the top of the world. Here, a house, a clubhouse, and a swimming pool. And a beautiful career job.

00:44:07.660 - 00:44:15.100

And then I answer. I'm sitting at the top of the world. Yeah, they don't have any more now, do they? Even with all the expense.

00:44:15.620 - 00:44:25.760

No, Mama has to provide. But you know, I still couldn't believe it. I really was in that position. I know that last issue I was

00:44:25.760 - 00:44:37.280

reading before I came up was about the Sharon Duffin fund, remember that? Yep. Do you want to talk a little bit about your work and, the whole business with, you know, the social issues of Montgomery

00:44:37.280 - 00:45:04.100

County, and... I forget which comes first, but of course it was the youngsters, the young people from Howard University who came up and threw a picket line at Glen Echo Park in '59, I guess, '58 or '59.

00:45:05.340 - 00:45:19.940

And those of us who had been upset about Glen Echo, who wouldn't let our children go there and who had piously written letters to the governor, why doesn't he have a law that would make Glen Echo open to everybody.

00:45:20.280 - 00:45:30.020

This would come up every year when Glen Echo opened, and our kids felt deprived because you used to hear the trolley, but you used to hear the roller coaster from our house on the first summer night. Right, we would hear it too.

00:45:30.020 - 00:45:39.940

And our poor children who couldn't ride the roller coasters. Somehow it was a great relief to think that we could work towards a goal, which was liberating Glen

00:45:39.940 - 00:46:02.880

Echo Park from its narrow definition of "public. And for me it was my first involvement in any kind of social change, except from a very church-oriented social action, but never in a sense being part of the strategy and putting bodies on the

00:46:02.880 - 00:46:17.830

line. So Bannockburn was so full of people who themselves had been social activists in their youth, particularly in New York City, and workers and involved in Young

00:46:17.830 - 00:46:41.260

Socialists and so forth, that there was such a desire to help, with SNCC in those days, that organization make this a winning situation, it was the first thing I think in Montgomery County that was social action, that we sort of thronged down there, showed up,

00:46:42.180 - 00:46:52.240

whether they called for help or not, I think they did call for help. And very quickly it was a little threatening because the young black activists were not very

00:46:52.240 - 00:47:08.110

numerous and they were students. And so from the very beginning, it was necessary to not overwhelm what essentially was an action from the people who felt oppressed by the law in particular and there

00:47:08.940 - 00:47:20.740

was there were there was enough experienced people here that we got, that they set up a committee to work with the SNCC Organization. So all through that long hot

00:47:20.740 - 00:47:35.760

summer that action started I guess in April because that's when the park used to open, and we kept it going till October. But it involved a great deal of organization, just simply how to work constructively together.

00:47:35.760 - 00:47:48.000

What we found out is if the young people would mobilize the picket line on the weekends and show up in force, the rest of the neighbors who lived close by would keep it open in the daytime.

00:47:48.340 - 00:48:07.440

But keeping it open meant from 2 p.m. in the afternoon till nine at night. And so a lot of us, we're [with] young children, once the naps were over, or the swim, and this is where a lot of taking care of one

00:48:07.440 - 00:48:18.680

another's children began to happen, because I would take your older children down to walk with me in the picket line if you would stay with my one and two year olds, and so a lot of deals like that got forged.

00:48:18.680 - 00:48:33.400

But we did, in fact, keep it going all that hot summer. And in the middle of it, because we were walking so much for those crazy cars, I must say we got a

00:48:33.400 - 00:48:46.620

lot of sympathy from the people who came and turned their cars around and did not come in. We realized there were so many people who felt the way we felt that we thought, this is a time to

00:48:46.640 - 00:49:04.300

develop some political goals vis-a-vis Montgomery County. And the breakthrough for the strategy was because we were there in the daytime, we saw those yellow school buses coming in, bringing white children to swim in the swimming pool there.

00:49:04.300 - 00:49:10.360

Because a lot of kids, children in Montgomery County, didn't have a nice swimming pool the way we did. So they brought them in from the rec centers.

00:49:10.680 - 00:49:23.040

All white faces. Now I remember going to the head of recreation and saying, "We noticed that you're busing children in, but it's only white children." Obviously you can't bring in black

00:49:23.040 - 00:49:33.660

children to the swimming pool. I think in those days we still called them negros, but only white faces coming to the swimming pool. "Oh," he said, but he anticipated the question.

00:49:33.660 - 00:49:44.480

"Oh, no, but we have other school buses that are driving the children into the district. There's a swimming pool down at P Street, two swimming pools in the district."

00:49:45.120 - 00:49:55.580

So again, the concept of separate but equal was defined by the county. And I stammered around, and this was my first effort to think like a Supreme Court judge, and, well,

00:49:55.580 - 00:50:02.890

"But it isn't the same. How do those kids feel not being able to swim with the children that they can play baseball with and kick the can with and swing with."

00:50:02.890 - 00:50:17.780

"Well, we're doing our best, and it's up to you people to get the laws changed." And I really think that it was that bureaucrat who said, "I'm doing the best I can do. I think I'm doing a good job.

00:50:17.780 - 00:50:31.760

I'm swimming everybody. I can't make the Baker Brothers accept those kids. You go change the laws, lady." And so from that time on, that was the opening that we could then use to go to the county, really to the

00:50:31.760 - 00:50:46.200

council members, and say, "Hey, what are you doing here? Your yellow buses are taking children to different places." At that point, I think the council was all democratic. We had very sympathetic people like Frosh, and oh, I should

00:50:46.200 - 00:51:02.800

remember the names, because they were all friends who really wanted to see this change speeded up a bit. So they said, "Get public support for what you're doing." They pretty much implied the votes were here, but the community had

00:51:02.800 - 00:51:13.720

to know that everybody had to realize that the community was ready for this change and that the politicians then would go along with it. They were not going to step out.

00:51:14.240 - 00:51:28.680

So we spent months and months and months galvanizing all the social action groups, and all the churches and the political groups and the synagogues and the civic associations and the county scheduled hearings.

00:51:28.940 - 00:51:36.140

And in fact, we did get the law passed. A year or so later, a different county council rescinded the law.

00:51:36.140 - 00:51:42.100

We had to go through the same thing all over again. By that time, we even had help from the White House because Jack Kennedy was in office.

00:51:42.100 - 00:51:54.200

I remember that. How was that? He wrote letters to- Oh, no, no, no. No, people who lived in, people in his cabinet or, or, or high up in his, close to him,

00:51:54.340 - 00:52:05.680

lived in Chevy Chase and Bethesda. And so when we needed people to testify to our county council, here were people working on, on civil rights legislation, the White House, who came and talked

00:52:05.680 - 00:52:23.520

to the County Council, and it was very effective. So the ministers, everybody got on the bandwagon. So that was a very exciting chapter. And we wouldn't have succeeded, I don't think, politically, if we

00:52:23.520 - 00:52:42.580

hadn't spent, used as much shoe leather and dealt with some of the minutiae of the problems of just mobilizing towards some limited goal, some extension of rights that was right under our own noses.

00:52:43.180 - 00:52:52.940

And the only problem was it gave our youngsters the idea that the problems could be solved in a rather short time. And I think my children sort of

00:52:53.040 - 00:53:00.520

got an idea that you just had to put your body on the line and things would happen. That was... We were lucky.

00:53:00.620 - 00:53:06.760

We were lucky. The time was right. Things were ready to fall, but it was wonderful to be part of that.

00:53:07.340 - 00:53:15.560

Just to continue that a few years down the line then, what about the Vietnam...? How did the Vietnam era impact on the students? Community.

00:53:16.640 - 00:53:26.920

Was there organizations? I guess Phil was probably some, you were somewhat active in that work. The community, there wasn't any

00:53:26.920 - 00:53:35.400

particular community action I remember. Most of us were down at every march that was called. As individuals people went to every single one. But not as the community.

00:53:36.040 - 00:53:53.760

But Danville came in between that too, because you were very involved in that too, right? In the March on Washington in 1963. We had a neighbor who had gone down to witness with the very

00:53:53.760 - 00:54:02.080

oppressed people living in Danville, Virginia, Nancy? Carrow. Carrow. Carrow, and she was put in jail, and she suffered the same

00:54:02.080 - 00:54:14.780

indignities that the black women, and of course the black men, suffered there, body searches and so forth, not being allowed to make phone call. And she came back, and just

00:54:15.040 - 00:54:27.840

telling her neighbors about what went on there, and people saying, "Well, what are you gonna do about it?" She didn't know what she was gonna do about it, but the word got around that this, that she had suffered.

00:54:27.840 - 00:54:36.140

She went, "I know," she was challenged. She says, "I'm going to go back." And how can we let Nancy go back and go through this again?

00:54:37.040 - 00:54:56.140

So we galvanized, I think about 50 of us went down for the weekend and were the guests of the Black community there to really, we were showing solidarity and we were being taken into their councils and what they could do.

00:54:56.140 - 00:55:10.600

We had a little bit of chance to talk to the white leaders who were just few and far between, but some wonderful white people were standing up. But it led eventually to the blacks, eventually had a buyer

00:55:10.600 - 00:55:16.780

strike in the town of Danville. And Dan Rivers is the big corporation. They were trying to get more

00:55:16.780 - 00:55:27.840

economic opportunity in the job openings in the Dan Rivers Mills. That was their goal. And so I think we played an incidental part, but I think we gave them support.

00:55:28.380 - 00:55:42.420

And as things have gotten so fractured between blacks and whites in this decade, it's sort of wonderful to realize that in those days, we felt we were working together and trusting and listening.

00:55:46.420 - 00:55:57.420

I mean, a lot of things grew out of that, like the school exchange, the busing program at Bannockburn. But the Vietnam War was... After that.

00:55:57.440 - 00:56:04.860

After that. But most of our children weren't drafted into the army. I don't think we had much...

00:56:05.820 - 00:56:14.840

Maybe I was off because our son was, missed it. I don't think there were many. The Vietnam War didn't really affect us unless how we felt about it.

00:56:14.840 - 00:56:25.580

It's a different ball game. But this community didn't really have, do you remember at all any effects of Vietnam War had to our children? No. My husband went out to

00:56:25.580 - 00:56:31.620

Vietnam, so it had a big effect in our family. Yes, I know, but yeah, basically. Because he saw Tet, you know, the aftermath of Tet.

00:56:31.620 - 00:56:35.500

But none of our children went to war. They didn't go. All you had to do was get into college.

00:56:35.500 - 00:56:39.960

And all you had to do was get into college. It's the poor that went. No, not a single Bannockburn kid went into that war.

00:56:39.960 - 00:56:44.940

That's the reason I was saying. That's what was so terrible about it. It was such a class war. It was so unfair.

00:56:45.060 - 00:56:54.300

All of our kids were exempt. That made you feel worse, right? Except, There was one Vietnamese man in that part of that. Do you remember him? He was a fantastic guy.

00:56:55.480 - 00:57:08.240

What was his name? You mean before, during the war? Yeah. He lived up on Calendar or there. And he spoke out very strongly for people to get involved.

00:57:08.240 - 00:57:15.420

And people did on an individual level. Individual. I'm talking about the kids. I think our kids got most of us involved, because our kids were,

00:57:15.760 - 00:57:26.140

our young people of college age in those days were manning the marches, and they would bring their kids home to stay with you. Yeah, but the community was really much affected. Not in Bannockburn.

00:57:26.140 - 00:57:36.740

The community itself, basically. You know what you've left out, and I think it's the most important thing of all that we did, because I don't think Glen Echo was significant in itself, and Vietnam was much bigger than Bannockburn,

00:57:36.740 - 00:57:50.140

was the fair housing thing. I was off in Colombia by this time, but the aftermath of getting the public accommodations law, which was the aftermath, which really followed and what we used

00:57:50.140 - 00:58:09.560

the Glen Echo thing for, was the Fair Housing Movement. And Mary Lou Munts was the real organizer at the Bannockburn level, but Tom Schwab was terribly important, and he was Bannockburn, and some people outside of Bannockburn, but that was a five

00:58:09.560 - 00:58:22.920

year struggle that extended, made it possible for people to buy homes in Montgomery County, and there's really nothing that has changed the complexion of the county more than being able to buy homes.

00:58:23.000 - 00:58:34.540

And the fact that it wasn't just homes in one part of the county, but that it was, that we could have a law that made it possible anywhere in the county, because economic conditions was gonna make that corridor of 16th Street and

00:58:34.540 - 00:58:51.000

New Hampshire Avenue the logical place for the blacks to move out because they were coming out of the district by and large. But the pledges that we got and the organization we got and the testing and going with families as they were meeting the terrible

00:58:51.000 - 00:59:01.420

rebuffs and everything. And I don't take credit for that. I mean, that's still an ongoing organization, Suburban Maryland Fair Housing, and it was born in Bannockburn.

00:59:02.080 - 00:59:13.940

And even the direct action, you know, where we.. Many Bannockburners were on that original board, And we picket lines and stuff like that. Do you remember that East West

00:59:13.940 - 00:59:27.140

Highway in Connecticut, Alameda? There was a huge sign. Remember the sign that said, "Restricted area, no Negroes, no Jews." What else was that? No Jews.

00:59:29.380 - 00:59:35.520

Catholics? I don't think it said Catholics. No Jews or dogs out there. No Jews, no dogs, and no Negroes.

00:59:36.100 - 00:59:43.940

It was a huge sign. Right now, there's a dental, doctor's office. Oh, I didn't see that. I think I would have stayed in

00:59:43.940 - 00:59:52.240

Pennsylvania if I had seen that sign. What the hell? Move to this lousy town. That was before we moved in here. Who put up the sign?

00:59:53.800 - 01:00:03.960

I don't know. I know this corner you're talking about. Chevy Chase was, Chevy Chase

01:00:05.140 - 01:00:16.260

Association, yeah. That was before we moved out, we used to, when we lived in apartments, we used to come out here, drive out here, and go hiking and whatnot.

01:00:17.360 - 01:00:26.340

We lived in an apartment on Georgia Avenue. At Forest Glen. At Forest Glen, right. I was lucky to get that apartment, too.

01:00:26.920 - 01:00:32.120

Those are nice. But we used to hike the canal here all the time. We used to come in.

01:00:35.340 - 01:00:44.870

I think that's another reason why we sort of liked this, because we used to go out, park our car here. Oh, the canal was the biggest draw.

01:00:44.870 - 01:00:50.340

Yeah, They were playing golf on this course at that time. You still remember it? Oh, you saw it.

01:00:51.980 - 01:01:01.120

Oh, interesting thing. You know, my neighbor is doing some landscaping, and I had to cut, take my bushes off, because I was past my property, and they got so big.

01:01:01.180 - 01:01:07.740

I cut it off, and I had to take a bush out. Sure enough, I dig in the yard and guess what I found? A 1945 quarter.

01:01:08.560 - 01:01:16.900

Must have been there from the golf course. Must have been from the golf course. I came across some golf balls. Hope people save the golf balls

01:01:16.900 - 01:01:24.120

they find from that period. Where were the gates to the clubhouse? Down at the road? MacArthur Boulevard? I don't think there were any

01:01:24.120 - 01:01:30.520

gates. Or the entrance to the road. Well, this drive is down this old driveway. It's this road, right? Yeah.

01:01:30.620 - 01:01:37.240

This drive, this entrance. But what connected it to MacArthur? Hm? What connected that to MacArthur? It went right down to MacArthur.

01:01:37.740 - 01:01:44.360

It went right down to MacArthur. Before Bannockburn Drive was built. You got pictures of the real

01:01:44.360 - 01:01:47.640

old...club grounds? I have the pictures shown before the... It must have been a very difficult...

01:01:47.640 - 01:02:04.820

In fact, there's a picture... Listen, there is a picture right there, 11 by 14, showing before Bannockburn Drive was built, if you're in the next room. And what happened, the road came around right by Bellman's house.

01:02:04.960 - 01:02:19.030

Yes. It came around and you could see how much they dropped the road down about 25 feet. Well, not that much, but probably maybe 10, 12.

01:02:19.030 - 01:02:27.260

It is right above me. I've got it next door, you can see it. So there must be people around who

01:02:28.200 - 01:02:35.880

remember the golf course, I mean, actually played on it or something. The reason I mention the quarter is I'm having my patio redone.

01:02:36.220 - 01:02:41.340

I put the quarter right in it. 1945 quarter. Your time capsule? It belongs here.

01:02:41.340 - 01:02:53.040

That's where the quarter belongs. We've come across a couple people who caddied here. Remember the guy who used to pick up the trash in the garbage can. Oh yes.

01:02:53.040 - 01:02:59.540

He used to caddy here. Yes. This Mr., What's his name? He picked up the trash at the pool when I was--