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This is an interview with Esther Delaplaine by Claudia Levy, March 22, 1995. Tell me about your life before you moved to Bannockburn.

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Tell me where you grew up and what your family was like. Okay. From the very beginning.

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Well, first you were born. Yeah, okay. I was born in Philadelphia and grew up in suburban Philadelphia, a place called Drexel Hill,

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Delaware County, Pennsylvania, a very middle class family. I lived across the street from the school and that was my playground. I loved school. I was bright.

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I was young and I would say one of my problems in life was they skipped me into the grade. So I not only was very young, I graduated, I was just 16, but I was also a little kid and I was a

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kid who had a very tall, slender mother and I always had a great expectation of being 5'8", but I just got to 5'4", and it took me until 16, so I always felt this sort of littleness and being younger, not as mature, and I think I peddled awfully hard to

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make up for it or to compensate. So some of my characteristics as a UMD stem from that. Nowadays I would have been in a

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good enrichment program and I would have been there with my cohort. They didn't know about that then. I think the most important thing about my upbringing was the fact

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that my parents had both gone to Swarthmore College and so education was very important. My mother fought hard to get good people elected to the school board in Upper Darby.

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My education meant a lot to my family and Probably the only reason I got into Swarthmore was because my parents had gone there because it was a place where most of the students were left-righter than I was.

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But anyway, I'm grateful for that because my true alma mater was that college and its values, and that's the imprint on my life. My family was very Republican.

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Their whole social milieu was Republican. Philadelphia has always been Republican and so was the county. I was very impatient with it by the time I was in high school. I knew it didn't speak for anything that I believed in.

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I was impatient with the Republican Party, their attitude towards Roosevelt, which To me he was a very exciting, innovative person, and I'm talking as a young teenager, and yet I was hearing such castigation and dislike of this man.

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And Eleanor, who my mother really saw as a role model, and she did resent and shared this with me, the scorn of her by so many people she respected, Eleanor was considered that woman. So I was ready to endorse Eleanor as soon as I got out of that

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environment. I also was brought up in a religious environment. I was baptized as a Presbyterian

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and more or less had to go to Sunday school all of my life, but by the time I was 15 knew that as soon as I was leaving home I would never enter a Protestant church again because again it didn't fit me.

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So I'm giving you the feeling that I was rather rebellious within a very narrowly confined, very conventional upbringing and what would people think was thrown out to me as a presumably to shape my behaviors and I had lots of

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differences with my mother and always wished that my father had been my mother because he was softer and gentler and I knew my mother would be very successful in the world of work. I was aware of that by the time I was eight or ten that my parents

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were reversed. I wish my parents had reversed their roles. Because my mother lived long

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enough, lived until the age of 95, I came to a much different level of interaction with her. She ended up in a nursing home near here, very impaired cognitively, but the qualities she

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stood for and that I knew helped shape me. I realized I owed her a much deeper sense of gratitude than I ever had in all of the 60 or 70 years on earth prior to that time. So I grew up rebellious, I grew up wanting to keep my distance.

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I didn't end up that place as a senior citizen and I'm grateful that she did live long enough for me to find that out. Your sense of social activism then was acquired outside the family? No, because the overlay of Christianity and the message from

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Jesus was... I got it in Sunday school every week and I knew what I wanted to take from that message, but I saw all this hypocrisy of loving everybody but also being stuck in a social class position and envying the rich and pitying the poor.

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I would say my family had a, it's not patriarchal, what's the word? Okay, it's the kind word where you're looking from on high down at people. I can't think It's a little better

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than condescending. The other thing was you couldn't grow up in the Depression and go through World War II without needing to examine your values at the root.

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I would answer the door when the beggars or the people selling Band-Aids and pencils would come six times a day. We were in a comfortable situation. Our family was not worse off because of the depression.

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Many of our friends were, but we weren't suffering. The apples were being sold on the streets in Philadelphia and the beggars were coming to the door. So you had to ask questions at a

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very early age why the social order had fallen into this kind of a situation. And then you could ask your parents what's wrong with President Roosevelt's ideas.

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Other people seem to think he's wonderful. So I think that was the spur, was certainly the depression and then the world conflict where I had to face up to my attitude towards war and whether I wanted to extinguish the reasons for why we were in a

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conflict or put my energies into post-war peace building. What year did you get out of college? Fifty years ago, 1944. So what did you do then?

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Did you go to work or did you get married? There were so many opportunities for those of us who were in college and emerging from college during the war for women that we never appreciated and didn't even become aware of really until the

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feminist movement in the recent past. At the age of 20 I was an assistant dean in the college administration at Swarthmore not because I had been such an illustrious student but because I was conscientious and had good

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human skills. It was the job I was least prepared for of all of my life. It was no job for a 20-year-old

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since I was the peer of the students for whom I was in a sense had some responsibility. I'll tell you a story. Professor Kinsey came to campus that year that I was the assistant

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dean and wanted to interview the students. He was interested in getting total groups. Statistics was not as sophisticated in those days so he went to Bryn Mawr and told them that he had talked to people in

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the Swarthmore letting him interview the students for his study and he told Swarthmore that Bryn Mawr had given him this permission. The dean didn't know what to do so

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she said Esther you go down and have the interview and then we'll discuss it and see whether this is something we should go along with. I had heard Kinsey present his study and was very impressed with the man and it seemed terribly scientific, rely on tutored ears.

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So I went down in a hotel room with a very young, attractive man, had this interview on my own sexual development and experience, and found it not at all upsetting and found that he was very open to being asked questions that had I said yes to this answer, what

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would be the next question? So I went back to Swarthmore and told the dean I thought it would be quite we could make this contribution, I didn't think it would be upsetting. Subsequently, he was there, no, his research people were there for

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four or five months doing interviews of anybody who was willing to be interviewed. At the end of the school year there were two couples who were caught emerging from a tryst who

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were called into the dean's office and subsequently were expelled. The dean took this out of my hands, although usually the conduct was one of my areas of responsibility. Her only remark to me was to observe, I guess we had too much,

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there was too much Kinsey on the pants. I found this hilarious because what was really happening was wartime moories were changing behaviors. The somewhat unsophisticated group of males at Swarthmore had been

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replaced by a V-12 group of sailors who were a different bunch of men. The pressure of wartime had its bearing on every love relationship of course, but that was her remark

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to me. Perhaps that's why I look back on it as one of my less experienced behaviors, less successful roles, But I really enjoyed being on the administration and I helped choose

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the freshman class and it kept me in a place where I had been terribly happy as a student. That was the year I joined the Society of Friends.

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There was a meeting house on campus which I had attended sporadically and I decided to become a friend and that was an important decision for me. I knew that this was an interim job.

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I knew by this time that I wanted to go into social work training primarily because I had became more and more convinced that the peace testimony, which is a basic one in the tenets of Quakerism, was basic to my own life and outlook towards people and events.

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It was terribly uncomfortable because everything and everybody was mobilized in the war effort. It didn't keep me from being friends with my – of course, most of my male friends were in the

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service, but I also had many friends who were conscientious objectors and so I found that this was a group I gravitated to. One summer semester at Swarthmore there were a bunch of COs on campus and we were offering them training to do humanitarian work

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in Europe. I had a chance, along with the courses I was studying that summer, to participate in a lot of their workshops and seminars.

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There was a Herta Kraus who had been the head of welfare in Cologne in Germany prior to Hitler and she was really preparing everybody what it was going to be like to be moving into Germany or other places in Western Europe in

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terms of welfare systems. So I suddenly got exposed to social welfare policy in a very close secondhand way. She was a terribly important person in opening up the world to

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me and the social welfare world and the fact that she was at Bryn Mawr I knew that was where I wanted to go on and continue my studies, which I subsequently did. In the summer of 1945, there was

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of course no opportunity to do any kind of community service abroad, I went off to Mexico with the American Feminist Service Committee to a work camp. I spent three months in a tiny

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little village doing very basic public health work, injecting people with rusty needles and recreation work. I wasn't very good in Spanish. It was difficult, but it was my

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first experience in cooperative living. This also was a leap ahead in a quality of life way where nobody was making the rules. We were deciding everything

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together. And this was the first time I had ever lived that way. And just working out the charts of

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responsibility and who would do what and facing the problems of group living with a bunch of 16 women I think was a very important first group experience and unique for me. Were you aware of the cooperative movement in America at all at that

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point? No. You hadn't heard about Greenbelt or plans for ideas about cooperative living? No. But maybe I was because It was so easy to fall into Bannockburn and everything about Bannockburn that attracted us was cooperative.

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So certainly I hadn't had any experience until then. There were no cooperatives in my own neighborhood growing up. How did you get to Bannockburn? I married John Delapaine in 1946. I was in my second year of social work training.

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He left the Army and I didn't marry one of these COs you see, but I married a Quaker, had gone into the Army late. He left in order to go back to graduate school. He was at MIT and I was at Bryn Mawr and the big decision was who

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would continue their graduate work and who would get a job. I was ready to go to Boston. Boston sounded interesting and I knew there was a social work school up there, but I wasn t

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eager to do this. He was much more eager having put his own life on hold so to speak to get into the world, back into work.

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So we decided to keep me at Bryn Mawr. He moved down and we lived in Swarthmore and I finished my second year.

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Got through my thesis, learned to cook, and was plunged into my first full-time job as a professional social worker in Philadelphia Family Services. As soon as my year was up, I had a

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year of service that I owed them because of the financial support they had given me as a student. I was very pleased to work for the American Friends Service Committee.

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Before I started in the Philadelphia office, I had four months abroad in the Paris office. This is much more important than why I came to Bannockburn because, again, this was such a glorious

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group experience. This was in the Saint-Germain-des-Prés area that was located in a home where Louis something or other kept his mistresses just in the most

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interesting part of Paris. We were Americans and British, mostly Quakers, doing different kinds of services, refugee work and so forth.

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I went over to be in the work camp office because the AFSC was the hub of the work camp movement that was sending both Western European youngsters and American youngsters out into work camps, basically doing reconstruction work in

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France and Germany and Finland and Italy. I was helping to expedite the arrivals and the departures of these people as they came off the boat. I went over on the Marine Tiger in a room with 48 people.

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The Marine Tiger had been a former troop ship, and came back to my husband four months later. But I also during that time got into Berlin during the airlift to attend an international service

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seminar, which was the program that I was going to be working for when I returned to the United States. And there I had the experience of being with 30 mostly graduate students, all of whom had been at war with one another.

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We were focusing on the foundations of peace in the post-war world. This again was an unbelievably dynamic group experience.

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I could never compare with anything else because the feelings were so intense. These people had suffered at the hands of one another's countries. And so the sessions went on and on into the nights.

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Of course these were mostly between the men in the group, but one was aware of them. And the anger And the healing that came out was a kind of miraculous experience.

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And I was there mostly as an observer. But it certainly deepened my commitment to non-reconciliation and non-violence as a way of working through problems. I returned then to work for the American Pen Service Committee

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until 1950 when my first child was born. We had three children before we moved here. I had three children while my husband, who worked every day doing research in petroleum products, Also was writing a PhD

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thesis and it was always a race between the arrival of number three and the thesis. I won. Joanne was born in May.

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He didn't get his PhD until September. These were intense years. The reason what got us to Washington is the important thing,

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not when. When President Truman came out with his Point 4 program, He suddenly was, I'll just never forget, we walked out of the, we were in the front yard when it was

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on a Sunday morning. We just read the New York Times and here was the program that both of us were aware we wanted to dedicate our lives to.

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This was the coming together of this social worker and this engineer aware that there were always going to be needs in developing countries and What an exciting way to live and to put your convictions into practice.

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At that point he started trying to find ways in which a chemical engineer could be useful. The UN didn't want any. It took a while, but the move to Washington was quite a strategic

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one. It meant getting to Washington where he would be closer to the scene where he would be more likely to get into this kind of work.

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So a former boss established a consulting firm here. And he joined it. He was the Indian. They were the chiefs.

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We settled into a rented house over in Chevy Chase and I began a hunt for the family home. We had a child number four, was born over there. The only reason we ever discovered Donnyburn [?] was that we had met

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some Quakers. We joined a Florida Avenue meeting in Washington and met a family there who invited us to supper. They lived at the corner of MacArthur and Donnyburn Drive.

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We discovered the style of this house. It was informal and as soon as we heard the word cooperative we exchanged glances. We came back the next day with the

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four children in the car. Charlotte Chase said she met us as we went up the street and leaned out of the car and said, [?] "And where is the clubhouse?" Of course, our friends had told us

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about the clubhouse. They were selling, I think, the Nelson's home was the display home halfway up Grannonburn Drive. We knew immediately it wouldnít house this family of six, but

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Ernie Cook told us that we could choose any lot, anywhereís around, and he would build us a bigger house. He had in mind a different pattern. So that was I guess sometime in 1954 and it seemed a long, long

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time until that house was completed and we moved in November 1956. But we got acquainted with Dining Partners, where they were building the swimming pool.

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They invited us to their Halloween party before we moved in. We knew we were right for that community. I really think it was the cooperative in the name that we just knew.

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Of course, by now we had belonged to a cooperative up in Swarthmore. We were a little more sophisticated by this time.

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But the idea that people had that idea that Mary Hurling and the early pioneers had of building a community for the young marrieds and the family growers and the senior citizens.

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And even though we knew that it was not to be achieved because we knew the county had put the kibosh on it, the people that it attracted, we knew would be our kind of people.

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What was it like for young families here? Well, when we moved in, the street wasn't paved. The house really wasn't finished.

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We brought in a piano, and the next week they came in to polish the floors. The main thing was Bannock wasn't green.

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We had chosen the lot we chose because it was the only one on the street that had any trees. We had the, it must have been the separation between the fairways. We had this row of Virginia tines in the back.

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And I wasn't at all interested in horticulture, but I must say I was used to a lovely community with lots of trees where I had previously lived. It was a very old community.

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So Bannockburn seemed very, very bare to me. So I would say instead of trees in those days we had children. West Halbert Road had what, twenty, I don't know, three, four and five children in every household.

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We had no sidewalks so our two-year-olds were out riding their trikes in the streets, learning to ride their tricycles in the streets and roller skating in the streets. And there we were yelling at the cars to please slow down because

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our children needed to be protected. We had to petition the county to get the sidewalks built. The county came through with a tree program so that s why we have some maples and oaks in front of our homes.

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And eventually, we got some bushes around the home. And when I look at the forest that that even has become, I just always chuckle because I can remember a very bare lower back. Very bleak.

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Yeah. Very bleak. Yes. Yeah.

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Did you find you were surrounded by like-minded people, or were there unifying aspects of your beliefs here? Or were you a diverse community that simply wanted to bring it in? Well, any community that had

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already had a cooperative nursery school, had built a swimming school cooperatively, had a co-op babysitting, we knew had people with vision in it. These weren't things we ever would

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have brought to a community. I felt that the people in this community were way ahead of us in one style of life. And that we needed to catch up with them.

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Sure, none of us had money, but we didn't feel poor in those days. The salary of $15,000 sounded incredible. I never felt richer probably than in those days. But no, it wasn't who they were, it was what they wanted to do.

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The only thing, and I'm very ashamed of this, the only thing that I ever felt that was left out, that would have made quality of life for me was that huge clubhouse up there with its kitchen.

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Why weren't we cooperatively preparing meals for these big families of ours and children of like ages and enjoying mealtime together and enjoying the fun of preparing meal together instead of each mother in her own home

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thinking each day what to have as a menu. I think until I went to a kibbutz, which was only last year, I didn't really see what we missed out on. But after that visit to the

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kibbutz I knew that one of us should have at least tried to sell the idea to a small group. The West Halbert mothers, we had some wonderful cooks among us.

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And the rest of us would have become better cooks. And because we enjoyed each other as human beings, and for first we're spending time together, we

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were almost to a woman, home with our kids in those days. We lost out in producing food and having fun as adults as the children would enjoy each other. That's the only...

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It was the age of the nuclear family. Absolutely. It would have sort of flown into the face of convention to do that, wouldn't it?

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Well, I don't know. Not for a person who doesn't want to spend their time cooking. To me, cooking is something to be

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shared, just like swimming is to be shared. And raising children in a nursery school is a stimulating environment. The same argument for those

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institutions would carry weight with me in terms of the kitchen. What did people argue about in those days? Was there much conflict over the way Bannock Green developed? Oh, I was in the nursery school co-op, taught nursery school for

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seven years running. Those board meetings once a month would go on until midnight. We didn't argue, but we discussed

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everything. I had a real problem. I was a real minority in this community. This community loved Robert's Rules of Order.

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Whether it was the nursery school or B.C.I. Or B.C.C. Or the Co-op Nursery School, everybody else wanted to, in the most democratic fashion, I

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understood Robert's Rules of Order. I had functioned within it. But here was this Quaker who believed in consensus and making decisions through consensus.

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And I never demurred, but when they asked me to be president of the nursery school, I said I'd be president if they would let me follow Quaker procedure. And so for, I think, two years, we

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didn't follow Robert's rules of order. And I still get a little bit of a shudder when I see how contentious we become in that environment even now at our BCI meetings. Partly I love the verbal qualities and the brightness of the people I

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live among, but I know that I think that we have had divisions among us unnecessarily sharpened because of some of the procedures that we followed over the years. Was there much disagreement about

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the direction the community was going to take in its institution? I remember some of the people were clamoring for a school within the Bannockburn community. At that point our children were

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going to Cabin John and I remember some of us holding back and saying, well Cabin John really needs Bannockburn to be down there. We're the strength.

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Our parents know how to bring strength in dealing with the staff there at Cabin John's School. Do we really want to pull out? Will their school be as good when we have our own school?

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Questions like this we would debate. Certainly when the Glen Echo picket line was established, I think there are probably a number of differences. A number of things about so much about the question of should

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blacks not not be allowed to go to Glen Echo but should we as a community take a demonstrable stand and be identified in such a forefront way with the efforts to desegregate the place. I never felt any ill will as somebody who was out front and

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taking a leadership role, but I know that people were worried about this. In some instances we were exposing their children because the kids wanted to march and the parents

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didn't. There wasn't a values clash there. It was simply the process to be followed. The fact that Bannockburn people went away from Bannockburn Foreign

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Service in many instances and always came back to me was just represented the fact that we were a unified community. We knew we belonged together and the loss of a family meant something to the rest of us.

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I have always felt a strong unity among the people here even as we are now becoming at that point we were all the same age we were all young more or less the same age we were all young parents raising children together and of course

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now we're much more stratified. I think my pride that we chose a community that stood for such similar values has strengthened me at my roots in such a positive way.

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When I lived overseas, I had two experiences living overseas, and was going through that wrench of separation from home base, I found myself finding people on the street that reminded me of people in Bannockburn, finding people that sounded like friends back in

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Bannockburn. It proved to me that my home... Bannockburn has always been family to me, Family with a capital F. You kept in touch then with people when you were, say, in South

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America? Well, a few people, Of course. How long were you away? I was away for two years there in the mid-60s and the mid-80s away in London. And of course when you're in London, Benningburn comes to you.

00:36:02.980 - 00:36:13.680

What interest do you think you developed as a result of living here? Do you think... Well, I think the most important experience in these middle years was the Glen Echo experience.

00:36:15.060 - 00:36:32.020

My friend Mary Lou, Mary Lou Rogers and I had been at Swarthmore together and weren't friends, but she had been an outstanding social activist there. I brought Eleanor Roosevelt to our campus in 1944.

00:36:32.780 - 00:36:51.300

When she came here, we embraced each other. Through the months, I became much more closely connected with other people in Bannockburn who were in the labor movement. It was in particular that group of people that responded to the

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picket line which the students from Howard University threw up that summer of 1959 I think. One didn't rush into something like this, it was always one step at a time.

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But to be able to see how to use that picket line to achieve a greater equality of opportunity in the county is the thing I'm really proudest of in my life because when we saw those yellow buses rolling in there bringing the white students from our recreation

00:37:34.440 - 00:37:48.420

department to swim at Glen Echo Pool. Mary Lou and I traced up to Rockville to talk to the head of recreation. He was very proud to say, oh, but

00:37:48.420 - 00:38:02.780

his black children were swimming. He took the yellow buses and took them into Georgetown and we knew we had a wedge to get at the county, to sensitize the county that this was not equal

00:38:02.880 - 00:38:17.960

opportunity. And so it wasn't just achieving the integration of Grand Echo that became our goal, it became enlarged to see if we couldn't use this as an opportunity to get the

00:38:17.960 - 00:38:35.580

first public accommodations law through. And that led to forming an organization that would spearhead the effort and galvanize the entire, the goodwill, the people of goodwill in the entire county so that we could mobilize on the

00:38:35.580 - 00:38:50.720

county council and present our testimony and so forth. So that was such a lesson in activism and responding to a felt need. None of us would ever have thought

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that the way to achieve any of these goals was a ticket line at Grand Echo. Our children bemoaned the fact they couldn't go to Grand Echo because it was segregated, but

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that wasn't our goal. I mean, The adults would never have started the confrontation, but we certainly were here to respond to the student confrontation and to realize the

00:39:17.860 - 00:39:34.760

larger opportunity that this presents us with. And then after public accommodations Mary Lou spearheaded the Good Neighbor Pledge where we went really door to door and a lot of us in Bannockburn did this not just in

00:39:34.760 - 00:39:51.660

Bannockburn but we took it to other neighborhoods and through our churches and other organizations that we belong to and got people to sign the pledge that they would be willing to go along with a black family moving in next door to them.

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And it never opened. Not many blacks moved into Bannockburn, to our sadness. But it did lead us to take the

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next step, which was to get a fair housing law. One of our Bannockburn residents had gone into real estate by this time, and she was very proactive in getting listings, getting people selling their homes who were willing to sell to black

00:40:29.680 - 00:40:43.440

families. And she worked hard at it. There were only a few however that ever purchased homes in Bannockburn and frankly what they what the report that she shared

00:40:43.440 - 00:40:55.900

with us was that they usually could get a better house for the same amount of money than Bannockburn offered. Bannockburn houses were too small. And we all knew that what we

00:40:55.900 - 00:41:04.940

prized in Bannockburn was community and community facilities. But these families were looking for the best home for the money and Bannockburn wasn't it.

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It was always a disappointment. What's it like to be living here when your children are grown and gone? Is there the same glue holding the community together?

00:41:25.680 - 00:41:45.280

No, of course not, because I'm not active in the things. When one moves out of the nursery school and out of the school orbit and isn't willing to take a role in the swimming pool management, one isn't having those intense interactions which are what

00:41:45.280 - 00:41:58.440

constitute the warp and web of life in this community. It's ridiculous to be living in this house with five bitchens and three beds. I'm always feeling apologetic

00:41:59.340 - 00:42:21.360

about it and we won't be living here probably too many more years. But I think it makes much more sense to be living here now because we're part now of not just a community of the folks we always knew, it's the younger people coming in.

00:42:22.240 - 00:42:33.480

One is related to ongoing life and young families simply by the fact that except for the dead of winter, one is seeing these young families and these youngsters. I don't think any, every year I am

00:42:33.480 - 00:42:45.640

more excited by the Bannockburn show. And it isn't that the Bannockburn show is any different. It's always political, it's always satirical, it's always fun. But the fact that these youngsters are in this show, The fact that we

00:42:45.640 - 00:42:52.460

never thought of having our youngsters in the shows in those days. The fact that families obviously now are raised differently.

00:42:52.800 - 00:42:59.800

Families do many more things together. The kids are more included in the social life than in our families.

00:42:59.800 - 00:43:06.580

When We were raising children. Yes, we needed to get away from our children. We were with the children all the time. Saturday nights were for us.

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I don't mean we didn't go on picnics and everything. And, you know, we had a two-family canoe in the back.

00:43:13.780 - 00:43:30.720

We did lots of things with families, but we weren't hungry for precious time with children. We had enough of it. So I will be very mournful to

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leave this community, not just because I'm attached to the house and the grounds and the wonderful woods that I love, that separate me from Braeburn and the creek back there, but I will be mourning not being around my families anymore because I leave with my

00:43:49.240 - 00:44:07.100

own life when I see these children. And when I hear, just hearing about the events and the projects that they're undertaking is a renewal for me. And it's very important to know that there's still these kinds of

00:44:07.120 - 00:44:14.000

people, these caring people. They're caring about different things than I cared about. The spirit is there and the energy

00:44:14.040 - 00:44:22.780

is there and the projects are there. So I never want to leave it. What difference do you think it made in your children's lives to grow up here?

00:44:30.040 - 00:44:49.340

When we lived in Puerto Rico, my children were between two and eight. They were brought into a Christmas pageant.

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This was Christmas 1958. My oldest daughter was Mary. My other daughter was the Angel Gabriel.

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My son, Mark, who was then in first grade, six years old, came to me and said, are we Catholic? I said, I know we're not Catholic. Are we Jewish?

00:45:19.980 - 00:45:32.580

Are we Catholic? Are we clergy? And this was a very honest confusion on his part. He was seeing the Christmas celebration, really for the first time in its Christian presentation.

00:45:34.700 - 00:45:52.600

Now he knew about baby Jesus but he didn't know all the facets because as a Quaker this was never emphasized. He probably knew a few Christmas carols and so forth. But most of his friends were Jewish and he probably knew as

00:45:52.600 - 00:46:06.160

much about Hanukkah or felt as close to a Hanukkah celebration because he had shared it with his friends as he was the Christian celebration. So I forget what your question

00:46:06.160 - 00:46:14.620

was. Oh, how they felt about growing up here. The freedom that they had here,

00:46:14.860 - 00:46:29.320

this was brought out when we lived in Columbia and Bogota was not a safe city and of course we were living in a city, even though a suburban part of it, where the children had to be escorted by maids even to go to the bus stop.

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Where my little son, where Bruce at the age of eight was beckoned to go behind a bush by a bunch of youngsters who quickly relieved him of his watch and came running home.

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They were in an unsafe environment and you can imagine what the...