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Stands for radio old. You are listening to frost radio, bringing the crystallization of new ideas to the airwaves. The views expressed in this show are not necessarily those of w, are you w or Case Western Reserve University? Welcome to another week of frost radio. This week I am in the studio with Co collaborator Dan car. I'm Crystal. I'm stepping up to the Mike. I've been kind of sideline on the sidelines for low while working on some other things. So might be a little rusty today, but hopefully I'll keep the show going and we have a special guest today. His name's Carl. We met him down food, not bombs on Public Square. We've had a lot of great conversations with him. So we wanted to have him come in. And talk with us and actually, he came in initially. He's gonna start helping out in the show. He's become assistant on the show and he came down today, thinking he was going to Simply assist us today. Little did he know that he was going on the air, so I want to welcome Carl to the show. And, I don't know. Car, even give a little little background about yourself like, where you comin from,

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and yeah, especially after Amber 11th, tragedies. There are so many things on. On public issues that need to be talked about. So many important things to talk about on radio and I've noticed you guys were pretty long time and I didn't really get that radicalized but I didn't really put my mind toward. Helping out or getting involved or seeing what you guys were about. Until about, I say, about six months ago and I saw you guys feeding the homeless. I thought that was a cool thing and I just started showing up and there's always different people around. Sometimes, you had a lot of help. Sometimes you didn't have any help. So I started helping and it just it just touched me that, you know, these guys are really doing. Some really righteous things and maybe I should involve myself a little bit more than just watching on the sidelines. So I did and I found out just a couple weeks ago that you guys had a show and, you know, you guys are doing such great things, such great work that I had to ask myself, the hard questions about. Well, what are you doing? Mmm, and I decided to offer to help and you accepted it. I'm really, I really feel privileged. And here I am. Great. Well, thanks a lot for all the compliments. No problem. And I Carl's definitely been a big help down at food, not bombs. And as he rightfully notes that their people, there's a sometimes lots of help. Sometimes there's not a lot of helping out, a lot helps people stuff and have always helps. Yeah, so we got Carlin here, we're gonna talk about a lot of issues throughout the hour. And, you know, Carl's you see it. Few things in this day, I think. Yeah. Yeah absolutely. Can get into those sighs. Nice. Kind of hear some perspectives from back in the day, you know, and what the people have seen. I don't know. I mean I have you living in Cleveland for a long time, a native Clevelander. So all the things that have happened in Cleveland, as far as where the radio is gone and the situation of the LTV all the political things. All the cultural things that have happened, have affected me just as a native, Clevelander. And so yeah, yeah, we can certainly get into those if you want and we've had some great conversations and I think maybe in stimulate some phone calls here and have another good conversation on the air and I'm more than happy

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right on. Um, yeah, I'll give the phone number out right now. Get on, get out early in the our the number two. If you want to reach us, join the conversation. Yes. Some comments or questions. You can call us at 368 to 208 and it's area. Code 216 368 2208. One thing. I want to talk about a little bit. During our our conversation today, you know, in the past, on Frost rated. We've had a lot of people come in who have been homeless and a lot of them in kind of, I don't know. We call that earlier than hardcore homeless. We have been absolutely no on the grades and the shelter's, you know, but they're I think, probably outnumbering that are a lot of people who are kind of moving around, you know, and yeah, colleges and stuff. So once you can talk about that, like, you know, what your situation and like, are you, you don't like hang out and shelter, you kind of have No, I'm not. I'm not homeless by any means or anything like that, but I'm not rich or

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anything. And I guess the economic downturn of just the past six months, much less than the past 10 years. I know all you guys out there. They'll TV, still we're pulling for you. 100%, My situation is nowhere near like that. I'm just not making know a ton of money and there have been periods where I've had to crash on people's. Pouches and I've had to, you know, go from one place to another. That might not be the greatest place but hot side effect of being cheap myself. Personally. It's also just because no trying to save money and trying to get ahead and get along in life, has become very hard for so many

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people and all is clevelanders you out there, the listeners and myself are sort of in the same boat and I just want to step up. Up and and make a little bit more of a difference as far as involvement personal involvement on that. You know, it's not like I'm necessarily complaining because I can't marry Britney Spears or something like that. And I don't hate Britney Spears. All you all, you all you all you get y z. Guys out there that mean, we don't hate rittany. She's just doing what she has to do, but she wouldn't do it on TV. Yeah, bless your heart, but we just It's just time to start thinking about what the future holds for

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clevelanders, for, for Dan for Chris, for Carl for you out there. And this is one way of doing it. Getting involved in it. You know, and it no and no way can I be said to be homeless? Yeah, you know, I've never been homeless but as far as

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making ends meet and getting the bills together, I feel for people who can't do it. Mmm and I just wanted to, it's just my own personal thing. Really. I guess it's kind of an emotional thing, but it's rough out there and it's getting rougher for people. Hmm. Yeah, you seen the you know, I touch on something. However, you know, everybody out there is not very far from you know, not making that check or no. Yeah, you know. Not be able. Yeah. Bill. Oh, yeah, and this is maybe good point to kind of let me step back a little bit and you know kind of get it more historical perspective on things here you're saying how, you know, things are growing and things are getting more and more difficult, you know, to make it more difficult to make ends meet in your perspective, like, um, you know, like, How have things gotten worse? Would you say that things were a lot easier?

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I think, like, I say, because I'm a native Clevelander. I think watching what I think of is a decline in the city. I've lived in the suburbs. I've lived in Lakewood. I've lived near west side, east side all over. And I have many different kinds of friends and many different social acquaintances and looking over the years at many of the neighborhood's. You can't help but see that. Wow, those neighborhoods must have been really jamming in 1957, you know, Detroit Avenue or near west side, or a tree mod or all these various areas that are now boarded up or they're being gentrified, or they're being.

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Maybe not manipulated so much or maybe. So, manipulated will hope some callers to come in, with their opinions on that, but it just seems like something is very definitely wrong with the Vitality, the economic Vitality of our Cleveland and you can't help. But no, I mean, just to get sentimental about Cleveland and now to see, you know, downtown Cleveland with all these storefronts and all these doggone buildings with with for rent, signs for sale science. I mean, it's when I used to work downtown, it was still pretty vital and now, it kind of looks like,

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you know, Steubenville not to put down Steubenville. But I mean, we were happening. We were very happening. Downtown Center for so long and like gee, what happened. Mmm. So when it gets to the point, when even I can notice it, it's time to start analyzing it and asking the hard questions and trying to find out just from a Civic perspective, what we can do and what's going on.

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It seems like the only time the downtown's filled up, as, you know, game days. Yeah for Browns game or when Aerosmith comes to town and I like Aerosmith. And I like the Browns but still, I mean I have friends who Whose children don't even have school books. I mean, they go to Cleveland schools and they don't even have, I I mean home. No one homework is great. We all know that. But I mean, they'll even have school books to take home and look at even if they wanted to do

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homework. So I mean, what's up with that? And my mother was a schoolteacher and so that really hits home to me. I mean, so many issues. I guess what I'm saying is that so many issues have reached such a level that you can't ignore them even if you want to. And so maybe Time for some some more public involvement going on shows, call in and talk shows and seeing exactly what's going on here. So that we can save it because it is savable. I I mean, it's not futile. The just talk about it. I mean, you have to start

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talking about it, but it's savable, it's doable. It can be done and I think it highlights an important point that, you know, you start off talking about September 11th, and you know, kind of tragedy around that and how a lot of people fixed on that. Like, seeing You know, I've just been kind of major point and, you know, local National History, but at the same time, you know, we can't lose sight of other things that are happening. You know, I mean, it's in some ways. It's easy something, easy to focus on. Meanwhile, the same old things are kind of happening on the streets out here. Absolutely, and it's intensified for September 11th, but my goodness, I mean, September 11th, was one. Terrible terrible terrorist

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activity, but how can the whole economy just In the tubes, just for that one issue as bad as it was and people, it was bad. But still, I mean, if a strong economy, an economy that has a very, very, very low unemployment rate can deal with that. And that is not the case in Cleveland

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anymore. Yeah. I'm just curious. Where did you grow up in Cleveland? We're part of of actually, I grew up on the east side, okay? Of Cleveland and then we moved out to the suburbs. Suburbs. And then I got a job downtown and I've worked downtown for about 20 years. Okay. What part? So what part of east side we living on? When you're, I'm actually off Kinsman. Okay, I'll Kinsman and then we moved a little farther east

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into the burbs and then I moved back to the near West Side, Ohio city Tremont area and now I'm back in Slavic Village. Okay. So, for me, like I say, I've lived in New York and Chicago never been down south. But I've lived around. So just having that sentimental thing about Cleveland and looking at like, I'm trying to think of a street. Well Newman or Detroit or anywhere, you know, it just seems like, wow, what happened. This must have been a really, really, really great place to grow up, you know, back in the day, but now you see

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for sale signs and the houses aren't being kept up and just reading the news and Trying to be informed about what's going on, reading all different, kinds of news media Outlets. You see that the city is very definitely, I guess maybe the the most dramatic. That's what I'm trying to say. The most dramatic issue that we really real hit. You upside the head with a 2x4 is the downtown

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area. And and this is affected me. Just because I'm native Cleveland. I've been here and my parents moved here from the south like so many families did because Cleveland was happening, even was really happening back, you know, in World War Between the world wars and now look at it. Yeah, you ever make it back to the World by Kinsman? See how things have?

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No, that's just not my temperament. I mean, I when I moved, I just moved I haven't been that. I mean I've I've been around the area, it it was off seven different. Colfax actually near where Arsenio threw up. But no, I haven't I haven't super been back there. It was a ghetto and now we really don't have much Nostalgia for that. I don't I know many people who do Okay. Well, let's come back to talking about. You never know about homelessness to talk a little bit about, kind of, like, difficulties in making ends meet, you know, in your own experience. If you see, do you see, you know, in your experience living in Cleveland, in your time living in Cleveland's, kind of more people living out in the streets. More people moving around out

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there. Sure. I see it even in Shaker Square, which is a big deal for me because Shaker Square was always like the very well kept up Tony neighborhood and it it still is. But I've seen homeless people sleeping on benches and shakers square and of course you cannot help. But see the very tragic occurrences of people sleeping downtown right

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near you know, where you catch the one, we all catch the one right out here and you see people sleeping on the grades. And you see people who obviously can't take care of themselves begging for food over and over an increasing amount day by day. And

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I don't know if it's necessarily patriotism or civic pride or just one human being toward another, but it's become pretty dramatic. Mmm. And seeing the amount of people with food not bombs, a great group of folks coming out to help every single week. I mean, it's not like they come out there and there's nobody, it's the same people over and over and over again. And something crowds are very big and some of the very beautiful Christian groups, have Started their own thing on Saturdays in the early on Sunday mornings where they feed people to. And you can see I mean business is good. As far as that goes and you just cannot help. But but but feel for these people and therefore, the grace of God go I.

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Yeah. Last night. I was actually down by Public Square for each Free Speech Square. I think it was. Yeah. Talking this guy who's he comes to food, not bombs a lot and, you know, he talked about actually living in Tremont for a long time and then you know in the kind of process of gentrification kind of the dark side of absolutely and you have a you know, he had a place he describes he like loves nice place and in came the one of those local do development corporation's pioneer West or your with Development Corporation of that. And that's the treatment area one. Yeah, he they stepped

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in and took the house over and bought it out and push them out and you know, and now he's down there. He has a place to camp out, you know, he's Campground different campsites downtown. But yeah, I mean, if you kind of the direct result of these development processes and what's happening in downtown, but one thing we talked a lot about last night was a problems that he had in getting employment and it wasn't a matter that he wasn't willing to be employed. But, you know, in that process of being pushed out of his house, then they were permanent address and now he's gotta. Yeah. And you know, and and being pushed out. You know, he had, he had, he did some things that That weren't legal busted for him. Okay, and those things came up and, you know, he tries to get employment and stuff and kind of keeps them keeps them out of that. Well, you know, keeps them out of certain job market. I don't know, but there seems to be, I don't know if you had any thoughts on this, but I said, you know, there's a There is seems to be, you know, there's jobs that if you have a criminal record, you can get that job, but then there's a whole kind of, absolutely, I think the

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problem is that see, I'm a full employment guy. Okay, and whenever Alan, Greenspan talks about unemployment, not being high enough for the economy. You know, that rubs me the wrong way, you can tell where I'm at politically, but I'm four-point. Full employment and And one of the issues that I have seen is this issue of people with convictions or people who may be made one mistake, especially a lot of my friends. I don't do drugs myself, but I know obviously, lot of

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people who have gotten busted for maybe marijuana or something like that or even drunk driving, or whatever, not vehicle homicide. And then all of a sudden they have this conviction and the way the economy is now, People are so not litigious, but there is it. They don't want to be liable. They don't want their businesses to be vulnerable to any at all, sort

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of. Sort of litigation or attacks. So, what's happened is, people who do have convictions, who can work, who are actually ready, willing and able to work at something can't get anything at all. I mean, it's hard. I've seen people who got turned down for McDonald's. We like you McDonald's but or 7-Eleven or anything like that. Everybody, if you look at, if you make a study of applications, you will see that almost. Every single business, whether it's

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McDonald's or Ernst & Young or Banks or whatever, ask you. Have you ever been convicted of a crime? And that's any crime. I mean, that's like some people don't want convictions at all. Mmm. Okay, like, even traffic violations, or anything like that. And they definitely don't want people with drug convictions or gun convictions or any sort of felonies. And the problem

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with that is that a lot of people have been what they called, scared straight. So they make really good employees. I mean, they're really ready. Willing and able to work. I mean, if you have a drug Conviction. And you decided you could become Scared Straight And you don't do drugs. Well, okay,

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end of story. You can still work at a bank or you can still work at a car wash or you can still work and any sort of white collar job, but if you've got that felony, your become part of a

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almost a labor force that basically has No rights basically has no hope or no opportunity in the shrinking economy. You get a job with any kind of health benefits or any kind of Future or any sort of thing for advancement. It's basically you've created a labor force that basically have to take any dog on job that's offered. And so, any sort of any sort of

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protections that have been fought for over the years, the glass-steagall act, the taft-hartley act, and he sort of any sort of Any sort of Hope and he sort of government or people

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driven act by Congress by the president by whoever where you just don't have bosses. Can't treat you just any way they want to. Okay, that's gone. Yeah, you become almost like a slave labor force. You've become you might as well be living in Uruguay instead of Alabama or wherever because now you are in the same position. They are take

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the work, we give you. Or don't work or start. Well, let me remind people out there that are you listening to W? Ru W FM Cleveland, and this is frost radio will be with you until 12 o'clock hour. Talking with Carl hear about all kind of different things. And if you want to join the conversation, please call in 368 2208 in this area. Code 216 368 2208 and we're specifically right now at this moment talking about the kind of the criminal justice system and the repercussions. Essence of that in terms of the labor market talking about how people who have been convicted of felony specifically when they come back out in Temple get jobs. They're kind of funneled into specific job markets and they lose a great deal of their rights as workers. I'm big on workers rights to I think if you the more rights of workers have the better and I know that doesn't fly with a lot of the, the business people and all like that, but I think

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if you managed to secure gainful employment with benefits with a future and because I grew up in Cleveland, you know, that's, that's something that As kind of,

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I've almost taken it as a given that, if you do that within the economy, will be good. Then you'll have money to spend then, for instance, a hole near west side, where a lot of people could go to LTV. They didn't go to college, but they could still buy a house. Raise a family, celebrate Christmas and spend money at Christmas, spend money on that car. Spend money at the local grocery store is a very Good thing now and I don't think he should be no. Chopped in the neck necessarily because you have some conviction or

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other. I mean obviously somebody like Robert Downey jr. Or somebody like that is doing well. But Robert Downey jr. Is he needs help? He said he's addicted and he needs help. Okay, he's in an industry, that doesn't necessarily stigmatize him for that. But people who are Auto Workers or bank, tellers or

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accountants. God help. You because you're going to have a very tough time, making ends meet, and how can you be a productive member of society? If you don't have employment

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and, you know, there might. Well, we had a gap. We had a guest on several times where I'll pack. I don't know Ralph, come down and do not bombs. Oh, man. I'm sure I've met him but, uh, yeah, he talks a lot. He talked a lot about it, but, you know, about this. He talked a lot about how and you know, the past and people, you know, you could not have an education and still make it, you know. Yeah. Get that union job in the factory and make it and get benefits and all these things, but that seems to be rapidly decreasing. But anyway, let's say we got a caller on the the line. Let's go grab the collar. Call you there. Hi, how are you? Standing those two facts and how it fits in to the low wages that we've got. The fact that they're so that they cut out welfare. So that they have a whole pool of people that they can do with Carlos saying to just use people and make them slaves in the, in the workplace. What do you think? Does that fit in if it's in very well? Very well indeed. No one is saying that, you know, the world owes me a living or Such and such and so forth, but we know what happens when workers have no rights. Okay. Nobody is anti work here. But what we are saying is you have to be, you have to bring something to the table as far as fairness goes and if the largest employer like you said is Manpower, I mean, bless your hearts Manpower, but that's, that's not really a very stable or Early hopeful, even when I heard that it was put across in a very positive way, but when you look at places like Minuteman and some of the other ones that are down there and you know, holding people captive, because they're not being in any way. But, you know, looked at either by the workers or by the government by the government to regulate any of that. It's Looks to me as if it's

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coordinated, well, I'm sure I'm sure it is in in, in some way. I mean, there's a lot of people let me just say that I'm sure a lot of people are not unhappy bye-bye that situation. Don't you think they got together? And they were living in terrible conditions, and everything was put against them race ethnicity. And it's pretty much the same thing that's going on now and people got together because they did, they had nothing else to do. You get pushed so far? That there's nothing else you can do, but organize and get together. Well, thanks a lot for calling in. Okay. Thank you very

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much. And actually, I mean, actually talks about that. People push getting pushed to the point and getting together and getting organized. And I think that's what you when you made that illusion towards Manpower human power being a, I mean, you know, it's kind of a sick name for a company. That and that, you know, well, we like, we like Manpower High Manpower, but, you know, the gig is that that's not the answer for every single thing. Like I said, nobody is anti work. Nobody is Auntie hard work, but I think with the caller was very astutely alluding to was that maybe there are groups of people or forces out there that are

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anti Worker and Auntie workers rights, obviously, rights cost money, you know, it's much better to have worker, who will do, whatever you say, you know, whatever you say it. When you say jump, they say how high. But I think to and you mean, yes, people who are anti-worker. I think that people who are anti work by thinking you put that in Brackets, in terms of like anti the kind of work, you're going to get. Yeah.

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Yeah. There's nothing wrong with hard work. There's nothing wrong with cleaning, toilets, or whatever, or sweeping streets. Like that, but if you have the system and I think this is what the caller was talking about a system that forces you to do that in a certain way because they want you to be economically, vulnerable or economically put down, then that's bad. That is bad. It's very bad. If I definitely on frustrated, we definitely are proponents of people. Power people taking it on their own on the things. The caller was talking about that in terms of, you know, minors and organizing and People, you know getting to a point where I just can't take it anymore and they filed to say, you know, we got to do it ourselves to get together and and in the context of Minutemen and these other temporary day, laborer agencies, you know, like and we've talked a lot about that in the past on Frost radio, but I think there are a lot of workers have reached that point, and, and you'll see it specifically in the work of the day. Laborers organizing committee, which is a group that's been organizing committee among day laborers out there. Oh, really? Yeah, so I think that You know, people people have hit the point, you know, that that it's a enough's enough and it's time to step up and makes makes people accountable people who have been exploiting, a lot of other people for their own ends. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, no one is like I say no one is saying that the world owes you a living or anything like that. But by the same token, that's a two-way street. That means, if you're a worker, you have a, right, as a human being and especially as an American citizen. To

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have the kind of work and the kind of career and then kind of unemployment and employment, not unemployed employment that you think is fair. One of my earliest bosses told me when I get that paycheck. Hey, that ain't no Christmas present. I worked for that. Okay. This has got to be a two-way street, you know, I do something for you. You do something for me as well. Yeah. I'll do you good. You can see that paycheck. Sometimes the boss had a mouth like it's some kind of present. No, it's not. No, not at all. And I think it's a good idea that these workers organize and Union or we'll just go back to what the miners had to put up with and no but well, some people do want to go back to that. Yeah, but the miners don't and we shouldn't either. Yeah, and I shouldn't a slogan. I like to keep in mind is that in terms of this idea that boss is giving out checks. Like it's a present one of my favorite slogans, is that the bosses need us. We don't need the bosses.

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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Organize ourselves and take the, you know, this is a two-way street. Okay. This is a two-way street and we see just from history of America from the slave labor of the plantations all the

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way till now we're both for instance. If you the Immigrant issue, where you basically have slave labor or low plate labor, the beautiful Mexican immigrants and so forth, picking blueberries, and picking raspberries, and all like that. We know now that if those guys don't do that kind of work and it's very hard work within that crop is not going to get picked period, okay, and I can assure you friends and neighbors. If that crop isn't getting picked this year. It will not be grown next year.

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Okay. And what happened? When you had people like Cesar Chavez and people saying, well, yeah, we don't mind hard work, but we want more for it than just what we're getting. We have a right to ask for it. We have To organize, we have a right to do that. We don't have to ask for it, the right. You don't have to ask for it. And that's what I think a lot of immigrant migrant workers mean, you know, for instance, we talked about, you know, when we talked about the, you know, it's kind of being out of felony conviction. Kind of held over you and your job site, kind of a threat, you know, these workers, you know, probably have more severe. You know me. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, throw you out the country if osher and and especially now if you have a conviction you are reducing reduced in status to basically almost like a like a non-citizen like a non thing because there's certain jobs that you will not be qualified for you

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will not get right off the grip now and it's not right. You just can't you just can't say because you had a drug conviction or you had a gun to conviction or you had any sort of felony thing that you can't work period, okay, and I,

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you know, you can't work at Sur. Yuck. Obviously, if you have an embezzlement conviction or a money laundering, conviction of bank is not going to want, you are going to get a job at a bank necessarily. But if you're if you're getting a job at a bank, in a mailroom, you know, you never see your touch money was in your felony conviction. Should not. I shouldn't be it shouldn't, but it does. For instance. I mean, you'd be surprised a lot of people if you make a study of it or you wrap to these people who are very definitely Scared Straight, you know, they're scared straight the The prison system did a good job on them and they want to work and it's very suspicious. Now as the caller said that the rules and regulations regarding this have become

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Tighter, and Tighter, and more unforgiving, and more restrictive and more pervasive. Not an X. I wonder if it's an accent or not. Was probably not. Yeah. She really brought point that I want to come back to him talk a little bit more in depth about and we've touched on this throughout the program about specifically about the, you know, having felonies kind of being a product of the criminal justice system. And what that has how that impacts kind of Labor markets, and what's going on with, with employment in in Cleveland, you know, you're in the nation as a whole and she specifically made Made reference to the seems to be a kind of coordinated. Like it seems to be some you know, it all seems to perfectly coordinated to be an accident and there's something going on there. Hmm. And I, you know, I think well, you know, Frost rated has these this term frequently, the open Penitentiary, which base open Penitentiary, basically of these you're out, but you're still in, I mean that is

00:35:12.400 - 00:36:23.700

shelter system and yeah things going on down there and how they all kind of come together and you basically have people, you have the penitentiary which is the prison and open. Three, which is the Shelter Systems. People basically Shuffle between the two. Yeah. In and out. And in and in the context of that open Penitentiary, it's just a really cheap labor market that people who can't, they can't find, you know, people are willing to hire them on the kind of jobs that provide benefits and a livable wage. But instead, they kind of get preyed upon by these temporary, labor agencies and obviously some of these workers do make it. Okay, they go, they get a job at McDonald's and get a a job with Manpower. They get a job. B, one of the agencies and they make it they get up there they get a job at a factory or something like that. They work their butts off and they make something of their lives to get back on their feet. What I'm saying? I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that those who need more assistance, than those industrious few who make it, still are not like burdens or anything like that on society Society should want. Those people to be able to make a living

00:36:23.700 - 00:36:45.100

wage and to be able to stand on their own two feet and be productive members of society as well. Yeah, you're always going to find success stories, but you want to increase the number of success stories and certainly, what you've been talking about. Chris is just really hitting the nail on the head. As far as that goes. There is a system

00:36:46.000 - 00:37:09.300

in place and nobody seems to be Or certain people don't seem to be too unhappy about the way things are going as far as cheap labor. And so, if you have a conviction or if your home is suppose you lose your job. For what are you get downsized? Which is called firing, is used to be called firing back and say, I'm sorry. What? Now? We're downsizing,

00:37:09.300 - 00:38:04.100

your position, has become obsolete obsolete or you out. We are Outsourcing your position, my friend. So pack up your stuff and leave. Yeah, and okay. So what happens after that? That is you basically become a non thing, a non-citizen. No better than if you were never a citizen, you know, at least a migrant Farm worker, which is different than the Immigrant Farm Workers. The migrant Farm Workers least, they have a job. They go, there they make some piddly wage or other pick and blueberries and then they go back to Mexico and the wage they Makin in Mexico. Is that's really kicking butt. Okay, but what happens is and I think this is what the caller alluded to which you have a system. That creates this type of labor force and keeps them there. For their own aims which are profit. Oh sure. Okay, we're nobody scared of profit or anything like

00:38:04.100 - 00:38:22.300

that. But the price you pay on the people who are making that profit and how much profit they're making. I mean, how am I? It's a lot of profit and no one's, no one's putting that down necessarily but I'ma tell you something, there's only so much is only so many thing. One person told me very very astutely and stay with me my entire

00:38:22.300 - 00:38:36.500

time. Hey, there's things money can do. And there are things money can't do. Okay. I mean profit is not the be-all and end-all of a society. The certain things you can't buy your way out of, you know, and

00:38:36.500 - 00:38:43.100

it's better. If that profit is made with a view toward

00:38:44.500 - 00:39:26.600

helping everybody know not just have a masters and slaves or I'm up here and you're down there because it's still the same country, you know, you can only pollute so much before you get cancer. You can The exploit people so much before you have to spend that money on security systems, because people are coming to your Dara, your door, your nice house in West Lake or whatever. And trying to rob you, you know, CT. Yeah, man, you see as you know, as these prophets of these CEOs keep increasing and kind of upper management of these companies, you know, you see the steady and going along with that people moving out of the Cities. Oh, yeah, they're moving, their buildings, wherever gated communities and calling for hundreds of thousands of new police officers given the streets base. For sure because they've created this

00:39:26.600 - 00:39:51.900

system where, yeah, they had you better have a gated community buddy because you've made so much money and so much time and so few and so few man-hours, but now the people you the help you make. The money are angry at you now, maybe? Or maybe not, they shouldn't be, but they are and that's going to lead to Crime to. Yeah, you better have a gated community and it's not necessarily. It's not necessarily

00:39:51.900 - 00:40:40.900

necessary. Okay, we're gonna do this. We're take a quick break. We have a song, queued up here, a request by Carl. It's coming out. It's Pete, Seeger. And this is which side are you on? You Wanna Give a Little introduction to this song? Well, I'm showing my my roots here. My full key routes, but it's just a nice provocative song. And I'm trying to labor toward a point here. That doesn't necessarily have to be one side or the other, but that's where it is. Right now. And here. We are in College radio. We don't have to pray. Britney Spears, the ones we could play a piece here. So, here it is. It's a good song and it's provocative and it's not necessarily true or not necessarily something that has to happen,

00:40:41.300 - 00:43:01.000

but it's an issue that has to be raised, and it's raised this way. All right. Great. Which side are you on a Pete, Seeger? Come all of you. Good workers. Good news to you. I'll tell. How the good old Union has come in here, dude. Well, when your side are you on which side are you on? My daddy was a minor and I'm a Miner's son and I'll stick with the Union until every bottles one. Which side are you? They say in Harlan County. There are no neutral there. You'll either be a union man or a thug for JH player. Which side are you on? Oh workers. Can you stand it? Oh, tell me how you can. Will you be a lousy? A bow. Will you be unmanned? Wish. I'll are you. Which side are you on? Don't scared for the bosses. Don't listen to their lives of poor folks. Haven't got a chance unless we organize. Which side are you on? Alright, welcome back to frost radio. We had Dan ding, co-conspirator Dan's in the studio here

00:43:01.200 - 00:43:34.900

focused and he's conspiring just like firing mouthing off in here. We try and get on the air. He's interrupting us. If you have a complaint about Dan, you can call us 362 208 or only got a few minutes. So I mean, even though there's a lot of them here. Okay, so maybe I'll call him Dan complaints. How much time for that? Yeah, an hour program, but if you have a question for Carl here or myself, or you want to join the conversation, please call us 368 2208. And that was Pete Seeger. Which side do you want? Is a great song

00:43:35.500 - 00:44:03.800

in the day and yes, I know it was divisive. And yes, I know it was very hard core. But this is, this is the times we live in right now. Okay, and was the last time you heard that song is pretty good. Yeah, and As I was listening to him, you know, like this kind of the comes out of the Jean Reno of Pete, Seeger and Woody Guthrie out there, you know. Yeah. These you know, that's that's really missing from today. I think, you know, how many things do you have? You know, again not to harp on Britney Spears.

00:44:04.100 - 00:44:28.000

We love it nieces. Right? Look. I don't have any problem with Brittany, you know, and it's not just Britney Spears, you know with the whole just like we can go on and on I think during our Telethon we went on about the nature of commercial radio and kosher kind of things, you know, your pusher commercial radio. I have a lot of friends from you. Shins, my mom was in Show Business briefly and you know, well, Britney Spears moving to another thing with college with, okay, but was Elvis, you know, what was

00:44:28.400 - 00:45:04.800

know? What were the Beatles? The The Beatles were an act? You know, it's funny thing about John was that the Richer he got, the more radical he got, you know, and obviously that's not always the case, but let's not do so much an Us Versus Them thing. I mean, Britney Spears, what about Diana Ross? What about whoever you know, yeah. I mean you're talking to a guy who Who likes the Spice Girls? You know, what was that one? What I want. I know you want. I want I mean, you know, music is music, is music, is music is music. Oh conspirators, a laughing. Brittany. Call in right now. Gonna

00:45:04.800 - 00:45:34.200

Spice Girl, Open studio. I mean, I don't I don't mind. I mean I like what was the last time you can dance to it? And it's fun. But when was the last time you guys out there? Heard Pete, Seeger anywhere? Yeah, mostly. Time you heard something other than I love you. You love me. And this never got to this. Not that, that's not a good thing or let's go to the dance or vacuum boys or whatever thing. But there's other things out there that should be addressed musically.

00:45:34.800 - 00:46:05.500

Well, let me let me plug the radio station over here. That mean that we're not going to hear this on anywhere else buddy. So I miss College radio. So you stay tuned into W re W going to hear some certainly gonna hear some music. You will either have never heard before or will not be hearing on. The commercial radio station. So with that plug down, let's let's move on. Move back to what we're talking about. Our show, which side are you on? Which side are you on? It's something that, unfortunately, maybe it, maybe it never left folks, but it's something we have to think about. Which side are

00:46:05.500 - 00:46:18.300

you on? Okay, not every, it's not just a worker boss staying, or in the severs going was always going to be one versus the other, but if indeed it is, let's not be naive about it, that it is.

00:46:19.000 - 00:47:07.400

Okay, the workers at Nike and the kids out there. I know you homies are out there wearing those Nike shoes. Okay, that's fine. That's cool. But why don't you think a little bit about what it took for those women? Those pregnant women, whose stomachs are being jumped on by guards and Indonesia to make those shoes so that you can wear them. Okay, which side are you on? Mmm. Yeah. There's a little, you call it a saying that I kind of. Stuck in my head through the years and and see if I don't remember it. It's a little complicated but it says it starts off pretty much. Everyone knows what they do in most people know why they do what they do, but most people don't know what what they do does. That's exactly. So

00:47:07.900 - 00:47:26.300

which side are you on? You know, what you do? Why does everything have to be political? Well, look, I mean, there's no such thing as an, a political act in this Society. Okay, and so, So your dad who got laid off from LTV steal that pregnant woman in Indonesia, making those Nikes

00:47:26.800 - 00:47:39.400

and Michael Jordan and Dion and Michael Jackson, and Eddie Murphy and whoever they're all part of the same political

00:47:39.400 - 00:48:51.000

Matrix. So to speak is a ten-dollar word. And so, I think that you should think about this, especially if you're listening this program, you know, you can't, you know, Affecting you very much is affecting you and it's affecting you adversely and which side are you on? Because I can assure you Phil Knight of Nike. We already know it is what's that? He's on he's getting PA ID folks, but what about you? Yeah, you should get PA ID to and I think I'll sell, you know, I'm trying to things mean, you know, people might question. Why is I think I'd be political on what have you know, but and like you said, it's a good point. Like, you know, by default everything is political to an extent. Yeah, but I guess what, you know before I moved back and the top we don't talk about our. I like to say that, you know, one thing is really great kind of seeing like in the past five years, I'd say, you know, occurs in people being politicized and come activist is to see that it's not always as you know, dry kind of boring preaching on the so Bono. And it's becoming you know, if you come down to food not bombs 4430. I'm pleased where you'll see that it's not like, you know, it's people having fun. Yeah. Festive air to it. Yeah, joking playing around. Yeah. Yeah, you have fun and this is something that

00:48:51.000 - 00:49:12.700

we like to do. And, you know, I think it's just like Bob gildorf said, well, Bob, what do you have some sort of martyr complex about these Ethiopians or whatever? And he said, I'm just surprised that so many people don't realize this is something. That a person would want to do know. And we want to do this. I mean, it's not

00:49:12.700 - 00:50:06.700

just some guilty conscience thing. I mean, it's it's a social event. It's fun. It makes us feel good. It's not easing a guilty conscience. It's important and important things doing important. Things is always fun. Yeah, and, you know, it's about hanging out and making connections talking to people, you know, there's you can't see it. But there's a lot of Divisions in our society, you know, I mean, it's all kind of boundaries, you don't cross it. A basis. You, you know, you live in Kinsman you tend to stay around Kinsman. Yeah, you know, you live on the West Side, you say, I mean, you live out in Bainbridge, attendance day around Bainbridge. I mean, there's, you know, definitely I could, I think in the past at least 15, 20 years, 30 years, probably the kind of processes of segregation or incredible in terms of class segregation. Yeah, you know, racial segregation. It's, I read somewhere. It's worse than it was 30 years ago, until I can't believe it. But not just for

00:50:07.100 - 00:50:26.000

race. I don't about race so much, but class, which is the real dealio folks. You know, it's not just black or white or whoever its top and bottom so that left and right. It's top and bottom. And which side are you on? It's no good. Having a senate full of women. Are you feminists out there? Here we go.

00:50:27.200 - 00:50:45.700

If they all think they 2208, it's no good. Having the Senate full of women, if they all think, like, Tipper Gore. Okay, that's a good. Point, you know, it's no good having a supreme court of all black guys. If they all think like, Clarence Thomas 680, boy, is the

00:50:45.700 - 00:51:12.400

36. That's the 20-mile now, but you know it questions. You knows who's getting that paycheck. Is who's getting that Health Care. It doesn't make a difference, gay or straight, or black or white. That's the scenery. Okay. It's does your gay partner? Have a job where he or she can get health care. Okay, it's whether or not you're you're Jewish or Catholic

00:51:13.200 - 00:51:23.900

wife or husband. And your the other religion has a job where they have benefits forget all that other stuff, but it's about class. It's and

00:51:23.900 - 00:52:08.700

bottom doesn't make any difference. If you like Rush Limbaugh. He's getting paid or Arnold Schwarzenegger or Bruce Willis or any other right-wing He-Man. It's it's whether or not you can afford. To go see their movies. Yeah, kind of I think I got about three or four minutes left here and I like to come back to action with a collar. One of the last comments. I want to make on that what the caller was talking about was this issue of debt and I think this, you know, too large and this is driving a lot of this, you know, not dry out. It's real. Yeah. It's involve intrinsically at this whole process. Oh, yeah, the debt is, that's going to be a whole issue in itself, but there's Obviously, a

00:52:08.700 - 00:52:32.300

psychology of debt that's going on there and spending money. You can't have and rolling up this debt and obviously many credit card companies are doing really well. I mean, they have to forgive some of the debt and no, they don't like people not to pay the bills and this and that, and the other thing. But still, there's a whole issue about that that we are becoming a debt driven Society. Let me wipe out this credit

00:52:32.300 - 00:53:49.700

card and, you know, do whatever. Hmm. No. Yeah, and I think tying it all in there. How about, you know, the prison systems and The Shelter Systems, and debt and financial system? All these things kind of working together and it seems it's an amazing image. I mean, it comes up when you think about these things and we mentioned earlier, the idea that open Penitentiary which these shelters basically are, you know, an open Penitentiary where you're you're more or less in prison and let out to work. Yeah, we can generate daily advantage and it's just amazing. And then you step back and you see that, you know, largely, it's a huge government subsidy. I mean, This, you look at the temporary day. Labor agency, who is making lots and lots of money off of these people who ya are living in these shelters. We obviously want to work because they're there, stay in there every day. Please give me a a job and, and they can pay the wages they can for. You know, one big reason is that, you know, these lies people are homeless. Yeah. They don't pay rent in the rent. You know who pays the rent, the rent, paid by the federal government? No, paying the prisons. Yeah, that's one time. You know, there is a prison or they're in the shelters and those are, you know, the government's in both senses. Subsidized and to a large extent. Yeah. Yeah. And the police force to keep them. Oh sure, you know, these are all working together to form this industry of day laborers out

00:53:49.700 - 00:54:03.300

there. Yeah, and it's like one policeman were not anti-police here either because their workers just like we are but obviously one policeman was telling me. Yeah, it's a big game. It's a game, you know, we arrest them and then the lawyers get paid

00:54:03.500 - 00:54:30.000

and the prison system goes on and they have cheap labor and this and that and The game, you know, and who's the winner? And who's the loser? And which side are you on? All right. Well, we're running out of time here. We're going to play a song on the way out. But you have any last last comment? You want to say? Yeah, my comedy is radicalize politicize, organize mobilize. All right,

00:54:30.000 - 00:55:12.600

people power, and I really want to thank Carl, not only for us, starting to help out with the radio show, but for stepping up to the microphone. Really short notice and with like, you want to come down and help us station. Okay. Oh, by the way, the guy didn't show up. I want to be interviewed on the yeah, sure. So he's been great. You know, I think you can get everybody out there. Hopefully, learn some things, got some perspectives. They might not have been aware of, and I want to thank all the listeners out there for listen to another hour of frost radioed. It seems to fly by quickly every week. Yeah. So we're going to wind out here with saw another Pete. Seeger seongjo. He'll do you have a little thing to say about that? Yeah. This is just actually the first time I I really got into this song was in the Woodstock movie with Joan Baez

00:55:13.100 - 00:58:01.900

and it's a beautiful song and just get into it for what it is right on. Yeah, Pete Seeger, Joe Hill. I never. I'm standing. They framed you for murder charge. Look, boss has killed you. Joel. They shot. You. Joseph takes more than guns to kill his Joy. You listening to wru wfm Cleveland broadcasting from the campus of Case, Western Reserve University and you're tuned into 91.1.