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My name is Angela Whitehurst, and I'm with the Oral History Truck at the American University. And we are here in Lincoln Park today at the 50th anniversary of the Mary McLeod Bethune statue unveiling. And if you would say, tell me your name. I'm Dr. Robert Williams, retired professor from Bethune-Cookman University. In 1974. I was the choir director at Bethune-Cookman College, and I performed here for the unveiling of the statue. And we have your permission to film and record and post this interview for others to see? Yes you do.

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Thank you. All right. So can you tell me why you were chosen and how you got here 50 years ago? And what brought you back today? Okay, because Bethune-Cookman is one of the children of Dr. Mary McLeod Bethune and Dorothy Height, the former president of the National Council of Negro Women, always had a close relationship with Bethune-Cookman. When the statue was put in the park in 1974, Bethune-Cookman and the National Council of Negro Women had a collaboration, and so at that particular time, we were part of the program. Bethune-Cookman was again part of the program and the planning for the 50th commemoration today. And so the president and the administration did not know anyone else who had been here 50 years ago but me. And even though I am retired, they asked me, would I come and represent the university? So that's why I am here today. Can you tell me what was most memorable about the program 50 years ago? Well, one of the things, it was such a joyous occasion, and there were just thousands of people just everywhere here. And, of course, Dorothy Height was here, who's a great woman in her own right. You know, before her passing. And so one of the things that she had told us before the program, they had to turn the statue of Abraham Lincoln on the horse around so that Mrs. Bethune would not be looking at the horse's behind. I thought that was very interesting, because the National Council of Negro Women had so much power. But for me, just being a young choir director, that was my first year as choir director at Bethune-Cookman, to be able to come here and direct the music for this occasion, and to see so many people here, so many people are honored here. I was just happy and excited.

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That was an honor. And do you remember what what the choir, what you had them perform that day? What they performed? Yes. The songs that I remember was the exact song that the group sang when they started off the spiritual. 'I'm going to sing when the spirit says sing.' That was one of the songs that we performed. And then they performed it again today. I don't remember any of the others.

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Oh, but what was significant about that particular song? Well, I think it's exciting. I think it's joyful, and I just think it expresses what a great tribute this is and what a great celebration it is. If I could ask you what, what do you know? Or what do you feel about, or what was so important about Mary McLeod Bethune that you know? Oh my God. Mary McLeod Bethune, in addition to being the founder of Bethune-Cookman University, for which she probably gets most recognition because Bethune-Cookman College is named after her. But there are so many other things that excite me about Mary McLeod Bethune: founding of the National Council of Negro Women, which historically has been such an important organization here in Washington and throughout the United States. And then her political achievements. She was, to me, the first civil rights leader because she marched and led boycotts in the '50s before the advent of television. And that's why she is not as known for those achievements as Rosa Parks, who sat down on a bus and refused to give her seat to a white man, and also Martin Luther King, who came later in the late '50s and the '60s. And then the introduction of women into the army by Mary McLeod Bethune, the opening up of the Lincoln Memorial for Marian Anderson to sing when the daughters of the American Revolution refused to let her sing. Her connection to Eleanor Roosevelt. It just goes on and on. And even though I never saw her in person, I am just infatuated with Mary McLeod Bethune.

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So that's well said. Let me ask you one question. Talking about she was key, critical to getting women and black women into the military. Did you know Dovey Roundtree? Because I think she was the first captain to be black female captain inducted into the army. No, I did not know that. And I also love while you're getting ready for this, the stories that they tell on Miss Bethune, how wise she was when someone would say something to her and she would answer them in such a unique way. And there are a lot of stories and stories that are just so interesting. Okay, let me ask you another hard question. As a woman, did you do you think she had a difficult time? Do you think she made inroads? And how do you think she was percieved? I personally think she had a difficult time because women have never been as accepted as men even till today. Thank God that is changing, but only till now. And then a black woman. So she had two strikes against her being a woman and being a black woman. And I could probably tell a joke some other strikes against her. But in spite of all of that, she rose to greatness. So she had to have power and the will of God within her. But it was not easy, in my thinking.

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Well, you know better than I would. I'm sorry? You know better than I would, because you're closer to that generation. Okay.

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Is there anything else you would like to tell me about today that was that impressed you? I would like to personally, you know, a graduate of Bethune-Cookman, a person who was here 50 years ago when we placed the statue here, never thinking that anything else would be done since that time. I would like to personally thank everybody who had a part in the 50 year rededication of this great occasion. We cannot ever give Mary McLeod Bethune all of the credit that she is due for what she has done for America and the world. So every organization, every individual, every group, there is a personal thing. Thanks from Robert Williams. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay.