00:00:05.840 - 00:00:45.880

6543. The following program is brought to you in Living Color on TV. I am an inmate residing at the D.C. jail.

00:00:45.880 - 00:00:52.800

I have four more years of my sentence to serve. I am detailed in the Buildings and Grounds unit and also work on the staff of the jail magazine, The

00:00:52.840 - 00:01:02.020

Insider. We have a guaranteed circulation of 800 guaranteed because it's not very easy to get out. But regardless, we inmates like other people, have personal

00:01:02.020 - 00:01:14.900

problems such as our families welfare, our wives, our children, family evictions, unpaid loans, future jobs, divorces, car notes, insurance, just to name a few. The walls that separate us from

00:01:14.900 - 00:01:27.020

the outside do not keep the outside problems from us. We worry, we brood and often pray for someone to help us. Very often the same problems that caused us to come to jail become worse during the time we are incarcerated.

00:01:27.260 - 00:01:37.300

When we are released, these problems may be even more difficult to deal with. Recently, a new experiment was started at the DC jail in the Insider magazine, we described

00:01:37.300 - 00:01:52.500

this experiment. Low cost students from American University's Washington College of Law and four members of the D.C. Bar Association who are currently participating in Law Corps, have

00:01:52.500 - 00:02:03.920

come to the inmates. Aid Law Corps is a pioneer program designed to aid prison inmates and their families in this area. locale, which began in December last year, stands for Lawyers and

00:02:03.920 - 00:02:15.800

Correction and Rehabilitation. This program was designed with the hope to guarantee that serious efforts are made during an inmate's prison term to resolve or ameliorate those problems, which

00:02:15.800 - 00:02:31.360

are likely to make him relapse into crime. I would like to introduce two people who are responsible for the local project Dean BJ Tennery of American University, who sponsors the program, and Professor Nicholas Kittrie, who created Law

00:02:31.360 - 00:02:43.960

Corps and directs it with Dean Tennery. Thank you. I would like to speak briefly of the broader implications of programs such as Law Corps in

00:02:43.960 - 00:02:59.080

terms of contemporary legal education. We are changing our attitudes in legal education away from the rather technical, rigid approach toward the study of law to what you might term interdisciplinary studies.

00:03:00.220 - 00:03:18.980

and what roughly we might call also clinical approach. We are trying to put our students into the field so they can be exposed not only to real people and real problems, but they are permitted to examine, in addition, firsthand the socio legal

00:03:18.980 - 00:03:32.180

institutions and policies. Lockjaw is a prime example of this clinical approach, and I've been very pleased with the results and the impact we've had with it on our students.

00:03:33.180 - 00:03:44.380

Now, I would before that, I would like to personally commend the Department of Corrections on the cooperation we have secured from them with this program. Now, I would like to have

00:03:44.380 - 00:03:53.860

Professor Kittrie tell you more about the details of Lockjaw. Lockjaw, in fact, is an. Experiment in crime prevention and rehabilitation.

00:03:54.740 - 00:04:09.840

We started it and we started it with assistance of some small grant from the American Association of Law Schools because we were convinced that as lawyers, we spend much time and emphasis upon the trial, prosecution and

00:04:09.840 - 00:04:19.480

defense of criminals. But then we forget about them and their problems. Up to 75% of all inmates return to

00:04:19.520 - 00:04:26.040

crime. They return to crime because it's very easy to punish. It's easy to lock somebody up.

00:04:26.400 - 00:04:40.040

But how do you rehabilitate him? How do you change his pattern of life? In this connection, I have a favorite quote of George Bernard Shaw. He says to punish a man, you must injure him.

00:04:40.560 - 00:04:48.400

To reform a man, you must improve him. And he asks. But men are not improved by injuries.

00:04:48.800 - 00:05:04.100

The real problem we have as far as crime prevention and correction, is the fact that inmates quite often lack the skills to earn a lawful existence. Quite often they lack the capacity to deal with problems which

00:05:04.100 - 00:05:15.420

produce crimes. And quite often, again, they're released into society without adequate preparation. Law is designed to work with inmates and their problems while

00:05:15.420 - 00:05:26.220

they're in the institution. We also hope that it demonstrates to inmates that there is a lawful and orderly way of resolving individual and social problems.

00:05:26.860 - 00:05:35.660

Now, I want to illustrate to you what law is like. I want to show you what a typical Law Corps workday is like for this.

00:05:35.700 - 00:05:47.340

We'll go over to the DC jail. But before I show you what the work is like, I want to stop and chat for a second with Mr. Rogers, the superintendent of the DC jail.

00:05:47.580 - 00:05:56.900

I asked Mr. Rogers what is happening in the field of correction. I especially asked him with regard to. Work release program, where the man can be sentenced on a

00:05:56.900 - 00:06:13.400

misdemeanor charge and received a sentence of a year or less. And the judge may put him into this program, or we may make recommendations to the judge, and the judge may sentence a mineral supplement or order down on his on his case and put him into such

00:06:13.400 - 00:06:22.680

program. And this means that we locate the job for him, check the job out, and he leaves here in the morning and goes to work and comes back in the evening.

00:06:22.680 - 00:06:33.320

And he's still doing his sentence and he can, uh, help support his family while he's doing time and maybe spend nights at the jail and weekends in jail. We also have another type of work

00:06:33.320 - 00:06:50.560

release where, uh, prior to six months of his furlough date, we may put him into a work release program. This, uh, takes him out of the institution prior to his parole date and also prior to his release date.

00:06:50.760 - 00:07:05.310

And this takes him back into this society on a gradual basis, rather than just at the end of his sentence or All one day just being turned loose and released to society. It seems that we are moving into the area where we are hoping to

00:07:05.350 - 00:07:22.110

bring more of the people outside into the program, inside and working in the area of treatment, attempting to improve the inmates that we have in our custody, preparing them to return to the society outside.

00:07:22.710 - 00:07:28.750

And I would say this is part of the program. I think that in your with your students, they are doing this.

00:07:28.750 - 00:07:36.030

Is the outside coming in? The time is 12. Noon. And time is 4:00 in the afternoon.

00:07:36.430 - 00:07:43.310

The time is seven in the evening. The day is every day in the week. The place is the reformatory in Lorton, Virginia.

00:07:43.710 - 00:07:53.230

The youth Center for youth offenders, the Women's Reformatory for the District of Columbia jail, the 20 young law students, including two. Girls.

00:07:53.710 - 00:08:06.850

Who go to work there regularly. Each has a shift of duty four hours of duty a week, not counting the follow up work that must be done on the outside in order to make things happen.

00:08:07.530 - 00:08:26.090

You now see the procedure one of our students needs to go through in order to enter the DC jail. The jail was built in 1875 as a maximum security institution. There are currently some 3300 inmates in the DC correctional

00:08:26.090 - 00:08:38.050

institutions. We serve them all. Some 850 of them are here in the DC jail. The jail is also the official place for executions in the

00:08:38.050 - 00:08:48.690

District of Columbia. I can assure you it's much easier for one of our students to get in than for an inmate to get out. This is the jail rotunda.

00:08:48.730 - 00:08:58.270

Visitors come here to see inmates here in a corner. We have our legal desk. This is our office the jail officials have made it very simple

00:08:58.270 - 00:09:11.430

for inmates to see us. My name is Monty Ahalt and I'm from American University, Washington College of Law, and we are involved in the Law Core program, which is designed to help

00:09:11.430 - 00:09:22.230

people like yourself who are confined in solving civil matters as opposed to criminal matters. And we received an application from you.

00:09:24.670 - 00:09:33.990

And on this request, we requested an interview with you. And exactly what was the nature of your your problem that you were seeking?

00:09:34.350 - 00:09:41.910

I'd like to get a divorce from my wife, which I've. Whom? I've been separated for four years. And why would you?

00:09:42.350 - 00:09:54.870

Are you seeking a divorce? Uh, my psychologist at the Lorton Youth Center feels that my young marriage is one of the reasons I'm in jail. And a parole board also feels the

00:09:54.870 - 00:10:06.810

same way. And why would this help you? And in gaining parole, why would this divorce help you? Do they feel that this has been one of the causes of your

00:10:06.810 - 00:10:15.410

problems? Yes, sir. They feel. They feel that, uh, your domestic problem has, has contributed to you being here in the first place.

00:10:15.410 - 00:10:24.250

And you cannot become a better member of society until you, uh, get rid of this problem. Is that correct? Yes, sir.

00:10:24.730 - 00:10:46.250

I see. We can keep you advised, and we will gain all the particular facts in this case as to exactly what will happen in this case. We have attorneys who represent people before the courts and who

00:10:46.250 - 00:11:01.830

can who can give you a better picture. Exactly what would happen if your case was ever taken before the court and we would keep you advised of this. Any action taken in your case? Floyd, how.

00:11:01.830 - 00:11:07.630

Many children do you have? I have four. Four. What are their ages? Ten. 11.

00:11:08.030 - 00:11:19.950

Six and four. What was the offence you were charged with? Possession of a narcotic drug. Your sentence.

00:11:19.990 - 00:11:27.830

13 years. 13 years? Yes, sir. Okay, Floyd, we'll get into your

00:11:27.830 - 00:11:37.950

particular problem right now. Uh, what was it that you really wanted to speak to us about? Well, I put in a request to see you about my wife losing her job.

00:11:38.710 - 00:11:44.710

And then after losing her job, she couldn't pay the rent. She lost her apartment. Your wife lost her job? Yes, sir.

00:11:44.750 - 00:11:49.710

For what reason? Well, she couldn't get out there to work. You know her? You have a pool that you ride.

00:11:49.750 - 00:11:56.170

You know, everybody rides with each other, and they pay them when they get paid. And, uh, This guy. He, you know, he didn't show up.

00:11:56.210 - 00:12:03.650

And yeah, her ride didn't show up. So that made her late for work or either couldn't get there at all. Did she quit or was she fired?

00:12:03.970 - 00:12:07.810

Uh, she was laid off. She was laid off. Yes, sir. You don't know if she quit,

00:12:07.850 - 00:12:13.930

though? No. Mhm. All right. Do you know if your job, if your wife is actively trying to get a

00:12:13.930 - 00:12:26.930

job? Well, uh. She was trying to get a job a little closer to home. See, because where she was working was so far out, you see, and she was trying to get a place to work, you know, it was much closer to

00:12:26.930 - 00:12:30.970

home, so it wouldn't be such a hassle, you know, in transportation. Mhm. Mhm.

00:12:32.330 - 00:12:39.970

What does she do. She usually does work in a hospital you know. Also like in medicines and supplies. Mhm.

00:12:41.010 - 00:12:46.490

I see more like a technician. I see, I see. Is she on relief at this time. No she's not.

00:12:47.250 - 00:12:54.070

We were able to straighten out the family problems. You heard the family is together. The wife is working.

00:12:54.390 - 00:13:06.630

The inmates mind is at peace. When I visited here last, he told me when the Law Corps student comes back, I want to kiss him. And while some of the students

00:13:06.630 - 00:13:17.630

conduct their work at jail, others man legal desks at a women's reformatory next door. Uh, what are you in here for? I just want to get that down before we proceed into the.

00:13:17.710 - 00:13:24.390

A. Straight, vey. Straight vague. I see. Now, what exactly is your problem?

00:13:24.830 - 00:13:32.430

I would like to make the work release. Work release. I see. And for what reason would you like this work release?

00:13:32.470 - 00:13:37.630

Well, that I can have me a job when I go out. Job? When you get out. I see. And when are you supposed to leave

00:13:37.630 - 00:13:43.470

here? Next month. Next month. I see. What type of work can you do? Uh, clerk.

00:13:43.990 - 00:13:49.630

Uh, type. Clerk type. Mhm. And how would you like a job in

00:13:49.670 - 00:13:59.890

that area? It doesn't matter, you know. Any kind of job. Often what's on an inmate's mind is the question, Will I be able to return to my old job?

00:14:00.010 - 00:14:09.730

Will I be able to make a living? How old are you, Nancy? 22. 22. I see. And what are you in here for? Larceny.

00:14:09.770 - 00:14:19.410

Larceny? I see. Now, what exactly is it that we can't do for you? Well, I wanted to know. First of all, I wanted to know.

00:14:19.450 - 00:14:28.730

Could I go out on work release program? But I was mainly interested in whether or not I could retain my appointment. What type of appointment was that?

00:14:28.770 - 00:14:36.210

Excuse me. At the Commerce Department. Commerce department? What type of position did you have there? Keypunch.

00:14:36.250 - 00:14:39.970

Operator. Keypunch. Operator. And how long had you been there?

00:14:40.610 - 00:14:51.450

I was under training program. You were at a training program at the time that you came here? Yes. Your main problems are the work release and the Commerce

00:14:51.450 - 00:14:58.230

Department job. the program that you were in prior to coming here? Yes. All right.

00:14:58.470 - 00:15:05.390

Now, what I will do is this week, I will call up and find out. And we will take care of this all for you.

00:15:06.750 - 00:15:16.230

This inmate is serving sentence in the reformatory. There is also pending a detainer, a complaint against him in the juvenile court involving a charge

00:15:16.230 - 00:15:25.710

of paternity for an illegitimate child, an abandonment of child and mother. As long as this charge is pending, he can't get out on parole.

00:15:26.390 - 00:15:38.070

As a result of local work, this inmate went to juvenile court. He admitted his paternity. The child now has a name, and also the inmate undertook to support

00:15:38.070 - 00:15:53.090

the child as well as he can. We have a law call request form from you stating that you have a domestic problem of some kind and this is worrying you, and you're concerned about how it will affect

00:15:53.090 - 00:16:01.610

your future. Could you tell me something about this? Well, sir, uh. I feel as though the container placed against me is standing in

00:16:01.610 - 00:16:11.530

the way of my making parole, or the possible chance of my being eligible for work release plans. Should I put in an application for this? Have you applied for parole yet,

00:16:11.530 - 00:16:24.210

or have you been considered yet? Are you eligible for parole? I'll be eligible for parole in a matter of months. But at this time, I understand that this detainer is standing in the way of my parole.

00:16:25.450 - 00:16:32.010

What court is this detainer in? It's located in juvenile court. This is in the juvenile court? Yes it is.

00:16:32.690 - 00:16:39.450

And this, of course, is the only this you feel is the only thing holding back your parole. I do. Do you have any other outside

00:16:39.450 - 00:16:50.130

problems with your family? You say here domestic problems? Well, I have another problem, but this time I can't explain it. It's like I want. I'd like for you to talk to my

00:16:50.130 - 00:16:57.230

brother about this other problem. Like for me to get in touch with your brother and and talk about this as concerns your family. Has there been a death in the family?

00:16:57.390 - 00:17:03.830

There has been a death in my family. I'd like for you to talk to my brother, and he can explain it to you better. Oh, I see.

00:17:04.030 - 00:17:12.070

So I'll be able to call him. You'll write to him for me and tell him that a law court representative will call him and tell him that we're going to.

00:17:12.110 - 00:17:20.670

I'm going to talk to him about this domestic problem. Do you have any vocation that you have been working at here that you think will help you get a job on

00:17:20.670 - 00:17:32.190

the outside? At the present time, I'm working as a butcher here at the reformatory, and I'm rather good at it. And I'm studying very hard to

00:17:32.190 - 00:17:43.950

achieve a better knowledge of butchering. And upon my release, I hope to continue my trade. Before you leave the office here, we'll be able to get your brother's name and phone number, and we'll be able to help you as

00:17:43.950 - 00:17:51.770

much as we can. I'm glad to give it to you. On the detainer, I'll go down to juvenile court and take a look at the jacket.

00:17:52.010 - 00:18:04.810

And then next week I can come back here and discuss this problem more fully with you. This inmate turned all of his worldly belongings over to his father before entering prison.

00:18:05.490 - 00:18:17.770

The father died. He did not leave a will. Everybody wants the property. We must help this inmate get back his suit of clothes, his car, his

00:18:17.770 - 00:18:27.770

record player. These are things he'll need when he's again released to society. This lottery offense that you're

00:18:28.450 - 00:18:36.330

in for, this was your first or second offense. Uh, yeah. This is my first incarceration. You have no prior convictions of any other felonies?

00:18:36.370 - 00:18:47.930

No. Very well. Do you have any pending detainers? Mr.. No, I have not. Well, Mr. Combs, uh, I will check

00:18:47.970 - 00:18:56.430

and see you next week on this matter. And what I'm going to do is I will go and look up the intestacy laws and the laws that devise. And.

00:18:56.430 - 00:19:01.990

Distribution in Maryland. And then. We will check with you and see. What.

00:19:01.990 - 00:19:12.350

Can be done about this property. Honey, I see that, uh, you turned in a request to speak to us. Uh, tell me what, uh, what has

00:19:12.350 - 00:19:25.390

been bothering you here? Well, I have a detainer against me in Alexandria, and I would like for you all, if possible, to have it detainer removed so that I can apply for the work release program.

00:19:25.430 - 00:19:31.430

Has this been hindering you in the work release program? Are you able to get on the work release program in spite of the detainer? No, sir.

00:19:31.470 - 00:19:44.110

As long as I have the detainer against me, I cannot apply for the work release program at all. And I have prepared for the work release program. Uh, since I have been in prison, I have increased my trade, which is

00:19:44.110 - 00:19:50.110

radio television, repairs. I have taken several correspondence courses. As a matter of fact, now I'm an

00:19:50.330 - 00:19:59.490

instructor and I instruct other inmates that are now taking this course. Oh, so you're the teacher, and they're you're you're teaching them how to be radio and TV

00:19:59.490 - 00:20:06.090

repairman? Yes. To help. So some of these people that you're teaching would be out on work release before you doing the

00:20:06.090 - 00:20:12.210

trade that you that you taught them. Yes, sir. This prisoner, we are told, is rehabilitated.

00:20:12.610 - 00:20:20.610

He's ready to go back to society, hopefully to live a decent life. But there's still another charge pending against him.

00:20:20.970 - 00:20:30.410

Would it be wise to return him to prison again? Three more years here may destroy his morale altogether. Working with the prosecuting

00:20:30.410 - 00:20:42.090

attorney, we managed to wipe out the second complaint. And to give this man a new chance. A new chance is what this inmate wants.

00:20:42.130 - 00:20:48.890

Also. I wanted to see you concerning the Narcotic Rehabilitation Act of 1966. I see you.

00:20:48.890 - 00:20:51.040

Wanted. To be. Committed. Under that act or just wanted

00:20:51.040 - 00:20:57.000

information? I want to be be committed under that act, under the civil commitment. I see. Are you a dope addict presently?

00:20:57.040 - 00:21:02.680

Yes, I am. I see. How long have you been addicted? I've been addicted to drugs at the age of 15.

00:21:02.840 - 00:21:06.000

I see. What are. You now charged. With? I'm charged with the offense of

00:21:06.000 - 00:21:09.520

robbery. The offense of robbery. I see. Have you had prior convictions?

00:21:09.560 - 00:21:15.440

Yes, I have. I see. What were they? Harrison. Narcotic act and disorderly conduct.

00:21:15.480 - 00:21:20.840

I see. Were they all related to narcotics? Yes. All the charges that I have have stemmed from drugs.

00:21:20.880 - 00:21:24.440

I see. Well, why do you want to. Be admitted under. The Rehabilitation.

00:21:24.440 - 00:21:32.360

Act? You might be committed for a longer period than if you weren't committed. Is there any reason why? Yes, sir. I have been committed to drugs for.

00:21:32.400 - 00:21:40.280

I mean, addicted to drugs for so long now that I just can't do right in society without the hour. On the hour. Use of drugs.

00:21:40.760 - 00:21:47.800

I see. In other words, you feel if I got you committed and you were cured, you wouldn't go out and commit more crimes. Yes, sir.

00:21:48.000 - 00:21:56.860

I see. Well, under the Rehabilitation Act, there are specific exceptions insofar as those people who can't qualify. Yes.

00:21:56.900 - 00:22:04.900

Now, I must say this. At the present time, I do anticipate that you will have a problem due to the fact you're pending trial for a charge of robbery.

00:22:05.220 - 00:22:11.540

When they legislate and create an. Act. They must specify in the act whom to whom it applies.

00:22:11.700 - 00:22:23.780

And in this particular act, they have unfortunately accepted certain individuals, particularly those individuals who have committed crimes of violence. And they also have specified which crimes are crimes of violence.

00:22:28.140 - 00:22:44.660

Now, I would like to introduce you to Joseph Hebner, the deputy director of the Department of Corrections of the District of Columbia, who will discuss with three of our students from Law Corps some of their impressions and attitudes from the program.

00:22:47.220 - 00:22:56.440

Thank you, Dean Tennery. Henry. I'm here representing our director, Mr. Kenneth Hardy, who was unable to be here speaking for the department.

00:22:56.480 - 00:23:01.600

The. We are delighted with the results of the law Core program. If your students have reaped as

00:23:01.600 - 00:23:12.520

many benefits as our inmates, then it has indeed been worthwhile. As Professor Kittrie and Mr. Rogers said earlier, the purpose of prisons are no longer merely to punish.

00:23:13.200 - 00:23:26.400

We assume that the sentence a man receives his deprivation of freedom is punishment enough that while he's with us, we need to do things to improve him, improve him socially, educationally, and vocationally.

00:23:27.160 - 00:23:38.360

These problems that he may have in his home that distract him certainly will interfere with any improvement programs we might have. I'd like to introduce the law core students with me.

00:23:38.400 - 00:23:53.060

Immediately, immediately to my left is Charles Brookhart. The young lady in the middle is Miss Lynn Perkins. The third third student is Jay Bernstein. Good to meet you again, Lynn.

00:23:53.100 - 00:24:04.900

Ladies first. I'd like to know, as a beginner, after visiting our institutions and interviewing a good many of our inmates and seeing our programs, have you changed any notions you might have had about

00:24:04.900 - 00:24:20.260

what prisons are like? Yes. Uh, before I entered the program, I'd say that I had a typical layman's outlook about prisons, that it was a place to, uh, keep the criminals while they served out their sentence.

00:24:21.100 - 00:24:30.620

But since I've been going out to Lorton Reformatory, I have found out that the prison offers to these inmates several opportunities. For instance, they are given

00:24:30.620 - 00:24:40.140

permission to come see the Law Corps members to help them out with the domestic and legal problems. They're given an opportunity to get a high school diploma and to learn a trade.

00:24:40.980 - 00:24:48.560

Uh, so that when they go out in the streets, they can earn their spending money legally instead of stealing it. Now, Don't get me wrong, I know

00:24:48.560 - 00:24:54.560

there are prisons. These men are not free. They're under strict supervision, and their neighbors are not of the best sort.

00:24:55.240 - 00:25:03.760

But at least here in DC, it's no longer a prison. And I put that in quotes. It's more like a penal institution with a purpose.

00:25:04.040 - 00:25:12.360

That purpose to rehabilitate the man so that he won't return to the institution again. Thank you. Lynn, I wish I had written your script.

00:25:13.320 - 00:25:22.840

Jay, can you give us an example of one particularly difficult problem? An inmate might have confronted you with? One that you had some difficulty in arranging relief for him.

00:25:23.120 - 00:25:34.120

Well, I would imagine one of the greatest problems that we ran into in this program was the divorce problem. Many inmates were desirous of

00:25:34.120 - 00:25:53.860

obtaining a divorce, but due to an abnormality in the law here in the district, we had some very serious problems in obtaining them. In a few instances, we were successful and were able to secure divorces for the inmates, which does quite a lot for them.

00:25:54.460 - 00:26:16.300

I think probably the greatest accomplishment that Law Court has, whether it solves the specific problem of the inmate or it doesn't, it relieves the inmate's mind and it sets him at ease. Uh, just to know that the problem, uh, if it cannot be solved by law,

00:26:16.900 - 00:26:23.220

uh, in our courts, the reason for it. And it gives him an answer. Thank you. Jay.

00:26:23.660 - 00:26:32.420

Charles, considering all of your experiences and your many interviews, do you think that a law court program is worthwhile? Would you recommend it for students who will follow you? Well, yes, sir.

00:26:32.420 - 00:26:40.980

I think it's a very worthwhile program, both from the point of view of the inmates as well as from the point of view of the law students. Now, as Jay has already said,

00:26:41.020 - 00:26:50.680

we've been able to help many of the inmates with their problems. Well, this program has been twofold and that it's helped us with our law studies. We're no longer confined to the

00:26:50.680 - 00:27:05.440

academic atmosphere of the law building itself. We're getting out into the correctional system and finding out just exactly how the correctional system works. Well, you young folks, I want to express the great gratitude of the

00:27:05.440 - 00:27:13.480

Department of Corrections, its employees and its inmates. And I hope, indeed, that future classes for American you will carry on this program. Thank you very much.

00:27:13.960 - 00:27:30.840

Thank you. The interviews you have just seen are not typical. No two interviews are alike.

00:27:31.200 - 00:27:39.920

We are dealing with individuals and each has his own personal and legal problem. We try and help them all. Sometimes we can.

00:27:40.280 - 00:27:42.640

Sometimes we just can't.