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Awesome. Hello. Today. It is December 16th, 2019. And this is in history. An oral history interview of Lucy Murphy by Sierra Solomon for the Malcolm X Meridian Hill Park oral history project recorded at American universities Humanities truck. So I'm sitting here with mr. Murphy, thank you again for agreeing to meet with me today. Do I have permission to record this interview? Yes, you do. Do and I couldn't you share a brief like introduction of who you are in relation to your work in. D.c. oh well my name is Lucy Murphy although the government will recognize me as Lucille Murphy and of course a lot of my elementary school friends would recognize that too. Currently I am retired retired from Being Health Care, interpreter of Spanish and English. I retired in 2016 and I am free to give time to a lot of activities, such as the Poor People's campaign. The one DC, black Worker Center chorus, which I direct the DC Labor chorus, which I sing soprano. In when they're not enough Sopranos, and I'm also on the board or the steering committee of the People's music Network to organize activist, musicians, and I am the daughter of Ruth Azalea Scott Murphy who was the daughter of Mabel. Packet, Scott and the granddaughter of. And I can't remember the grandmother's name Mabel hackett's mother, but she lived in the block above Malcolm X Meridian Hill Park. And my mother would talk to me about how there was a time when the streetcars stopped at the foot of the hill and she had to walk up. What is now 15th Street to go to Grandma's home and she lived with Grandma because her mom and dad had a farm in the country, not too, not too far in Maryland, but they wanted her to go to school in the district because at that time, the schools For what we were known as colored people than the schools for colored people were quite highly rated. And so, Mom, gain the benefit of going to schools in DC and she lived with her grandmother and she remembers Miss Henderson, who donated a lot of land, and donated the land and was partly responsible for the removal. I understand of working class black community had a castle on. And I remember, actually remember the castle and great disrepair, but it was still sitting there in my lifetime. Of course, now all that's left is the castle. The outside wall of the property, not even not even the castle wall but outside which kind of looks like a castle. But Right there on 16th Street. 16th and Florida Avenue, there's still is a remaining a retainer wall to that property but those are, those are some childhood memories and of course remembering my mother's talking to me about her memories which was before I was born. So that kind of frames my idea of the

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park, okay, awesome. Did when you talk to your mother about the park that she reference it as Meridian Hill or Malcolm X. So it was Meridian Hill Park. It didn't get to be Malcolm X Park until after Malcolm X's death. Awesome. And when would you say that was like a an immediate acknowledgement of the of the name changing as soon as Malcolm X past or well graduate, I don't remember that. I remember African Liberation day being celebrated in a big way and I might not have remembered the initial because I was caught up in being a Young mother, a young student and having a lot of worries. So it was, I really wasn't active in African Liberation day until the late 70s early 80s. Okay? But I do remember Kwame. Ture was called Stokely Carmichael, then. And all the different groups and all the different vendors and dance groups, musical groups that perform their doing the 70s and the

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80s, okay? How would you say those events like African Liberation day? How would you say that? Kind of molded, the way people use the park or see the park? It had a big in, I mean, to put the park on. On the national map because African Liberation day Drew people from all over the country all over the world. Really. And it was a wonderful peaceful event and you know preparing for this interview I looked up the actual some early days of African Liberation day 1972. Yeah, yeah. And the Washington Post doesn't even have an article about it. The art, the, the best article is done by some folks, at Harvard the Crimson something. And I said, you know, even in 72, we were black people were coming out of invisibility. We We had been left out of the news, you know, the so-called mainstream newspapers magazines television shows radio programs. Of course they were black papers. There was black radio and black magazines, ebony jet, but the local mainstream TV stations, and the mainstream the newspaper of record. The Washington Post did not have an article about it. I couldn't understand that because it was really a huge event but it was peaceful and maybe that was the reason why it wasn't in there because as someone says, if it bleeds it leads and our journalism is so pessimistic. So led by tragedy crime, I'm and stress. Yeah, that's very interesting that you made that connection because in the early stages of our research, for this project, we saw that the W, the only things that were noted in the Washington post about Malcolm X Meridian Hill Park, were saying that Angela Davis coined their words, coined the the renaming of the park since then of course we've Interviewed folks and they have disputed that claim, but it's very interesting that you noticed that it doesn't mention anything about a OD or anything like that, but the only reference is the renaming from Angela Davis.

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Yeah. So would you say that were there any other events that did not get that? Put the park on a national platform but did not get acknowledged in a way that it should have? Well actually, there was one event that was acknowledged when the longest walk came to Washington, d.c. You know, I remember Marlon Brando being in the park and I should have remembered Dick Gregory, but then Dick Gregory was at so many different events. But Marlon, Brando was not at so many different events in DC and he was there to along with all the other people who would come into town for the longest walk, and they came to Malcolm X Park and that was That of course was National because the longest walk for native people and their supporters coming all across the country to demand rights and restitution for for the crimes against native people in this country for for both ald in the longest walk. Would you say that what was The audience of the participants were there. Other groups? They're supporting each other? Was it like a main 11 following? That was there? Oh, no. I'll do a lot of different, focus groups and actually for African Liberation day, that brought together a lot of different groups, the Kwame to raise party. Always reached out to all the different Liberation groups. From the different countries including the Palestine Liberation Organization. And they were always clear to support Cuba and support Palestine in the face of U.s. foreign

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policy? Yeah, awesome. So, how would you say like International conflicts or for foreign problems? How did that? Interact with the use of the park. I know you mentioned African Liberation day but like the way foreign policy to Cuba or things that were happening in Palestine, how did that mobilize folks to use the park? Well, I'm not sure I was just a bystander but so I'm not sure how they arranged to to use the part. But I know they were able to get the use of the park for many years. Until a very conservative Administration took over and demanded that they put up money for insurance. Insurance. And it was thousands of dollars, which we couldn't afford. And you know, the it had been such a wonderful peaceful Gathering of people. There was no reason to demand that it was but it was a way to shut it down. So you know unfortunately that there hasn't been an African Liberation day in Malcolm X park for many years. Do you remember what was the reasoning that the administration might have put out? Or the insurance, because it's been decades that they didn't require that. So, why did all of a sudden insurance was needed? I think it was, you know, they could. So they

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did. Did they groups go to any other locations in the city to keep hosting these events? Yes, they were able to continue to have events at Howard University, which is not that far from the park. But It doesn't offer the space that and the access that the park does. So, and there have been other places the african-centered schools, Independent Schools would have events for African Liberation day, emergence community, E Arts Collective on Euclid, Street closed by close to Howard University would have an event, but much smaller okay. And and local as opposed to National International were there any other

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The National Park Service properties that we use our Parks areas that were used as a substitute. Oh, well, I know that. There was Caribbean, you know, Caribbean Festival, Caribbean music in the park, which later got moved downtown. But I'm not that knowledgeable about yeah could I but I did I have visited Malcolm X Park since I was a child. The other thing I wanted to mention was that there were classical music concerts free concerts there and Music programmers from wmal tended to be the host. It's awesome. People like Bill Mayhew and Felix Grant. So yeah. That's awesome. So the park seems to be heavily used for you know concerts and for protest did those two ever merge for activities? No. Okay. Yeah they would want different days, the concerts tended to be on Sunday. Afternoons. Okay. And The. Although I think African Liberation day was like a whole weekend but it definitely was more concentrated on Saturday.

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Okay. Awesome. Was with music or DC music ever used as a protest in the park, for example, I guess. Earlier this year. You know go-go music and GoGo bands kind of used voices in protest during The Metro PCS Corner incident was that ever was there any type of similar situation that was used in the park? Well, go go music. Wasn't an issue? Hmm. Is that you know, back when I was going to the park right there, there has been a drum circle there on Sundays for many years. And some of the the new Resident quote-unquote, new residents have perhaps not appreciated, the drum circle, the way the longtime residents have and there was accusations of drug use and illegal Behavior which I'm not that versed on. Yeah. Steve Coleman and Josephine Butler. Worked on that with greater attention. Of course, Josephine Butler. Left us in the 90s, but she was a longtime activist in that area and used the park for different events. Okay. And I remember us doing kind of environmental walk with her some years before she died. She was an advocate of Clean Air so that people could have healthy lungs Association. Yeah. And so the outdoors, you know, the parks, The Greenery always offers you better are Yeah. Okay. Do you know what you mentioned? Some of the contest with the drum circle and the new residents, do you remember how they, you know, you mentioned the environments walk? But how did they kind of find balance with that? Or how do you find balance with, you know, new residents coming in and come batting with tradition of the space? Well, one thing is that the drum circle is acoustic. Mmm. So there are all kinds of restrictions on the use of Amplified sound. And I'm not clear on what all the rules and regulations, you'll have to ask somebody else. But I know that the probably are some permits that have to be Approved. Yeah, have to have Amplified sound. The yeah. So the folks outside the park really don't have that much to complain about in terms of the volume of the sound. The sound is pretty contained. Yeah,

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within the park. Okay, awesome. Wanted to, we talked about this photo a little bit before the interview and on note this photo in our records but we have Your photograph done by Nancy shy and we see you here and with a few other of colleagues and wanted to know what, what exactly is happening in this picture that you can recall. This looks like the the picture of the community for Creative non-violence, which was started by Mitch Schneider and Friends. And they're serving probably a Thanksgiving meal to all comers in a place where homeless people would come and get food and clothing donations. So, We're out there serving folks. Okay awesome, is this something that you participated in in the park often with or I participated with Mitch Snyder's group, when I could, I got arrested a couple times demanding Better conditions for the poor. And another the community for Creative non-violence was a peace and a Justice organization, demanding less spending on the military and more spending for humanitarian efforts.

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Okay, okay. So I believe this was taking in 1987. Do you know if these activities, you know, even without much lighter are these activities still happening in the park to draw attention to, you know, lower-income homeless population? Yes, there are a number of churches. It's in. There's also a food not bombs group, mostly young people who prepare vegetarian food which they serve. Now, They don't serve it in Malcolm X part. They serve it in Franklin Park or another park downtown, okay? Like I forget the name of the other part. That's a few blocks over from Franklin. Franklin is located on 14th Street between 14th and 13th. And K and I streets, it's that large part that takes up the whole block and that is where most of the church groups, take the food and the clothing now. And people know to go there occasions, Okay, how would you say that activities like this influence, the part or use of the park at all? Hmm there. This may have been, I'm trying to remember when they started housing, people at the shelter on Irving Street. You know. I don't see as many homeless people in Malcolm X park. Now, as there were then Yeah, I do not. But definitely there the there other parks with this kind of activity, takes place. Okay more so now.

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Okay, awesome. Okay, so I wanted to discuss a little bit more about yourself. You don't mind. So, you mentioned in the beginning, all of the great work that you do in the in the Washington. Area the district. And I kind of wanted to go a little bit more into that and when did you first start participating and, you know, social justice issues, particularly for washingtonians? Well, I like to tell people. When I was in the fifth grade, the teacher would allow the boys to go outside for recreation and the girls were posed to stay inside and do something quiet. And I got a petition together, even though I wasn't very athletic, I wasn't well coordinated at all, but I thought that the girl should have the same opportunities to go outside and play as boys did. So I got a petition together and got all the girls to sign. That was my first political action. That's awesome, but I had the Good Fortune to live near Saint Stephen and the Incarnation. And I noticed a lot of my neighbors going to st. Stephen, not necessarily to church, but for different youth programs and so I decided I would start going to st. Stephen's and find out what was going on. And so, I did when I was about 11 years old, And I became a member and they had an after-school program and a summer program for the neighborhood kids and so we're not a few years later after I joined, I was old enough to work in the after-school program and from that, I got my friends together to work with the same group of kids, I had an afternoon to work with them on. Saturday's, because I recognize that a lot of the children came from large families and they weren't getting the attention that they wanted and needed, and they were falling behind in school. They were getting in trouble. So, I got some friends to take folks, out to museums, to the park to do, you know, craft activities with them. On Saturdays and we did it through st. Stephen's say Stevens offered the space back then you could get space to do things and people weren't demanding money for rental. If you told him what you wanted to do and they thought it was a good idea, they gave you the space that changed. But for for While we're talking about the 60s. So from there, I became active in well st. Stephen's was a very activist Church in 63 almost the whole church marched down 16th Street to join the March on Washington, and I was about 12 years old then, And when there would be hearings at the city council, there was an older member of the church who played the guitar and sang and the pastor of the church would get her and a few others to go down and testify. And she would always write a song appropriate to the testimony and sing it for the folks and of course, that would get some notice. Yeah. And then she kind of took me under her Wing. I became one of her children in mother Scott and her children, and we did some summer in the Parks events as well as testifying before city council and demonstrating for different things. I had the Good Fortune of having an English teacher when I was in junior high school who was Is also the secretary of the local core chapter Congress on Racial equality and so she would have us picketing on Saturday afternoons, picketing stores. That wouldn't hire black people and she had us write letters to the editor about, you know, our Colonial status as washingtonians And so, you know, it was all around me. So that's how I got involved initially and later on, when more and more immigrants came to Washington because of war in their country suppression in their countries, I became active in advocating for them. I had learned some Spanish in high school and college and I was able to go to to work for a summer in Puerto Rico and develop some speaking skills. So I became active in Latin American solidarity along with the anti-racist antique Clan. Solidarity. And I see, you know, the movement for a better life. I don't see it as a whole lot of different things. I see it as one thing with many facets. So I try to help out the different folks that are working for a better

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life. Awesome, awesome. How would you say you integrate your Thin music and song and with your work with activism and DC. Well, I see the role of the musician as the person who calls the community together, when you sing people, listen people, you know, who may have been dozing off at the speech or the sermon when they hear the song, they wake up and And so, the role of the singer is to help wake people up and bring them together. Which is what I try to do. So what are some of the activities that you have planned in DC or been a part of in DC that have that have done that, that I focused on your gifts, and song Bringing attention to issues and DC. Well, no, it's so many. Well, let me just say that in 1968. Martin Luther King in 1967 actually. Martin Luther King was planning, the Poor People's campaign, pray and The fact that he was so effective is perhaps one of the reasons why he was assassinated he was really bringing the country together. The poor people of the country together indigenous people Latinos, Chicanos African people, poor white people. And after his death there was a resurrection City constructed here which I think you are. I have done some history on unfortunately, the the assassinations and the mistreatment and the by off of some people, cause the movement to go into a decline, but we still have the same problems, some of them seem to be more Layering and so we have a new Poor People's Campaign which understands that singing together is very important because when we sing together we breathe together our hearts beat together and we can we can feel our power. So the new Poor People's campaign has a singing together. Every chapter has at least one song leader, they called us, Theo musicologists. A word, I never heard before last year, or year before last, but it's a word that has developed by the new Poor People's campaign for us to get people get everybody to sing together and we will be singing together, June 20th, of 2020. So this is the big push. Right now. And I am supposed to leave here and get on a conference call to talk about this, but it listen to what's going on. Awesome. So for June 20th, 2020. Do you already know we're like it'll be on the mall, okay.

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And is this one of the first big campaign events in awhile? Or is this more of? This is a big National will cost you know, last year there was a big Gathering actually 28. Yeah, 2018 there was kind of a 50-year Resurgence. Refounding rebuilding of the Poor People's campaign and there was a big demonstration on the mall with Reverend Barber Bishop Barber now and we want to, you know, just before For elections call everybody's attention to the fact that almost half the country is under the poverty line. So many people have lost their houses, lost their pensions, so many people feel hopeless, which is why we've got this opioid crisis, and many other crises. Yeah, rice crisis in violence. Yeah, domestic violence. Violence School violence, you know? So we want to bring people together to demand that we spend less money on the military and more money on human

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needs. Awesome. So how would you, how would you describe the effects of? Like you mentioned a lot of you know, half the nation is underneath the poverty line, which is brought a lot of the crisis ecdc, which one would you think if you could lose one? Because I know they're all intersectional like one that has really of impacted communities in d.c. the most I know that's a really well what I think is impacting d.c. the most right now is the way our local government has just given over land to private developers and has and the decisions to cut public housing or to neglect public housing. And, you know, hope that the people go away. Yeah. But really provide situation, you know, conditions that kill people because when you dislocate older people, you kill them. Yeah, would you say that this is a big issue within the communities that surround Malcolm X park? Because oh yes, okay, yes.

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And it you know, it's not just the local issue to it's a national issue. What's Happening Here is happening all over the country. People people's salaries and not going up, but the rents in the mortgages are just going through the roof. Yeah, yeah. So what Have you seen happens to those who are dislocated in d.c., like where do they usually go? That is. A very good question. I'm finding people are going to other states, okay? And then some people are just getting lost. I don't know where they where they've gone. Okay. Okay, so

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Where do you see? Do you see a slowing down of this of this new development or an increase? That's I I don't see a slowing down, but I do see kind of a rising effort to deal with it. Although I don't see a United effort, I see a lot of different nonprofits calling attention. Having programs having demonstrations but I really don't see the policy changing. Okay? And the policy has got to change. Okay. What do you think, what changes to the policies need to be made? Well, the we can't make, like, we don't need public

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housing, right? We can't just give people vouchers and expect them to find places to stay in the market housing. Because the market can say no, right? Even they can say, even if it's illegal, they can say no enough that it just makes people's life hell. So we, we have to have real public housing supported by the state and the state has to be responsible in repairing and not only repairing public housing preparing in Infrastructure which is seems like we have forgotten how to repair our bridges and tunnels and you know other infrastructure. And we've got a lot of crumbling infrastructure which is going to be a lot of disaster. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So how would you say that the The changes with with new development and dislocation of people. How would you say that it has affected the culture of DC? Wow. Wow. You know, at one time, d.c. produced, an amazing array of musicians, Duke Ellington Billy Taylor, you know, outstanding people, but if you don't provide music education, if you don't provide instruments. To to the students. If all you provide is broken, turntables, then what you get is, what we got now, which is music that has less and less Melody and Harmony, because people don't have the opportunity to learn Melody and Harmony there. They are scratching old vinyl and and making Rhythm and spitting words, but our cultural level is not what it used to to be. It's how do we fix that? I mean, if the development is not decreasing, how do we Make sure the culture stays intact. We have to recognize what is really valuable and what is really us and music is really us. We have to provide music education, music, teachers and musical instruments for our students to play. When I was in junior high, I got a free instrument and free musical instruction and most many schools have no instruments now. Yeah, because instruments do break. And if you don't replace them and or repair them, then you've got nothing to work with. And the budget has been cut for all of that that happened under Ronald Reagan. And that was probably before you were born.

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Is that the administration that you mentioned before, that was conservative and brought insurance and to play like MPS under Reagan? Well actually I was thinking of a local the local government Administration but certainly they were following behind Ronald Reagan. I'm sure he was their inspiration. So how do you think places like Malcolm X Park fall into play in trying to keep the culture alive? Keep the the space available for music for harmony. How do you think those spaces were right now? Malcolm X Park is providing the space for rhythm. Hmm. And for people to, to play together with their rhythm. Ments drum circle is the Sunday afternoon drum circle, which is there on every Sunday afternoon of good weather. And we now have a local Art Center founder and promoter John Chambers of Bloom bars, which is the institution on 18th. Excuse me on 11th Street between between Lamont Street and Kenyan Northwest Bloom bars is offering a space for the Malcolm X drum circle to play on. On Sunday afternoon so that they can keep that alive weather is bad. That's awesome cold. Yes, and that's almost a spiritual Community. Yeah place where people can get together and feel the Oneness of humanity. Awesome. Unfortunately, we don't have a similar space for our melodic

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instruments. Yeah. So have you We participated in the drum circles over the years. I'm not a percussionist, got it. And so I just appreciate. But I have, you know, friends, many friends participate in the drum circle, okay? How would you say that? Because the demographics of the park have changed over time. It's a very visible. Would you say that is impacted the power of Of the drum circle. Well, the drum circle changes from, you know, and and sometimes you go there. And there are there are there's more than one drum circle going on because some of, the more disciplined drummers want to be with themselves. And some of the folks that are little more sporadic and maybe less have received less training, shall we say? And whose sense of of Rhythm may be different. Well, we'll have a separate Circle. Okay.

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Would you say that over time, the change in demographic has altered businesses. That also are there. So I'm yeah. I'm so you wanted me to comment on the the, the demographics around the park have changed, but the people who come to the drum circle come from all over the area, Okay? So they don't reflect Act, the they reflect very little God, the neighbors God. Some neighbors may show up, but it's many of the people who used to live in the area, who came to the drum circle, don't live in the area anymore, but they still come to the drum circle. That's your that's actually like a testament of its of, its standing power and its importance to that people move and still come back. Yes. But you say that's still the the case for businesses that post-op one Sundays in the park, like there's some people sell statues and jewelry has that changed over time. Or is that been consistent? I know that there was some harassment of vendors, so And I'm not clear on what the rules and the regulations are there. I know in general, you're not supposed to exchange money on part and in fenders, may be able to get licenses to move and in certain spaces and I'm not clear on all the rules and regulations, but there are various folks working with Street vendors. Ders. If you want to reach out to be happy to refer you to for better knowledge. It is it is a an issue that poor people are being harassed for people who provide a good service or a good product but who may not be able to afford, the license are being harassed by the police on street corners. I'm not clear on what what happens at the drum circle. Yeah, fenders on Sundays. Yeah, because when I've been there, I haven't observed. But I haven't been there that frequently so I'm not a good person to to talk to about that.

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Okay, well talk a little bit more about the, you know, the vendors and the harassment is the Erasmus usually coming from local police Park Park police. There are so many police departments. Yeah, shington, d.c. it will Make your head swim. I just like to refer you to Megan Makkah reg, who many languages, One Voice, who is working with some of the street vendors? Many of whom are not English is not their first language. So they've come to many languages One Voice, which acts as a non-profit to get the tricked to be responsive to people who speak other languages. We have a language law in DC that says that DC anyone who receives government funds must provide service to people and we target six languages, Spanish, French Amharic, Korean Vietnamese. And Chinese, I think. and because we have residents, Who speak those languages and pay taxes and need services. So to make our society better. Yeah, we need to provide them with the services that they need. Yeah, and many languages one voice is now located in the Josephine Butler Park Center which is right to the side of Malcolm X. Park right there on 15th Street. Right there would Steve Coleman and Friends. That's awesome. Awesome. So, what happens when When companies don't abide by having having services for to accommodate the six languages, like, what what happens to them do, you know, I think the office of Human Rights May step in. Okay, too. Ask them to do better. We do have some nonprofits who provide interpreting services and and translation services which the city subsidizes, okay?

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Okay, so would you say that harassment? Not just Malcolm X Park, but space is similar to Malcolm X Park throughout DC, is that becoming a growing problem? Or has it always been there? Well, because we have these new residents moving in. I do see a greater police presence. In the neighborhood. Police cars that seem to have regular parking spots in certain spaces. Is if they're, you know, providing Guard Services for for the new residents of the yeah, of the area. Okay. And Probably the the most harassment I've seen. Is that police arrest meant is that Anacostia Metro Yeah, we're people who are trying to sell something, or it used to be. If you got on the bus and didn't pay your fare, but now that law has changed. So there isn't as much harassment for non-payment Affair, and I don't see how they could call that a felony or a crime. It's definitely a misdemeanor, you know, $2. This is but you know this atmosphere of harassment and condemnation of the poor is definitely in the air. Yeah. So how does that? Do you think that the police presence in itself is it supposed to be like an act of intimidation? Or they seen more as like you kind of what you said, like a guard, I think the new residents, see them as security, okay? And the longtime residents see them as harassment.

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Can you think of like any examples, or any moments in time that have? Well, I remember when someone was taking a relative either from the hospital or to the hospital and police decided that they were transporting drugs or something. And they started shooting the tires out. The car was going right past but great down Oak Street, right? Past my building. And they started shooting the tires out from the car. The car crashed into a building causing damage to my neighbor's house. And then they threw up that yellow tape. It says, do not cross, but they threw up the tape in front of my house. And I had to go someplace. Yeah. So I came out of my house cross the tape and they took me and threw me up against the wall. They didn't ask me where I was going or anything. Thing they didn't you know, there was no excuse for no I couldn't make any what's the word? There's no relaxation of the rules for mothers who had children at home, grandmother's, who had children at home. They were not allowed into the street apparently. Apparently, to take this, not only in front of my house, if tape was in front of at the beginning of the street. So grandmother's who wanted to return home to take care of their grandchildren. Who were left alone for a few minutes while Grandma went to the store. Yeah, couldn't come back. I was taken to 4th District and put in the lockup, a friend of mine, got on the radio and see, Lucy said the lockup. It's a. So, a friend of mine called and said, is she really there found out? I was dead and came over and bailed me out because he didn't want me spending, you know, but this was for coming out of my house.

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Yeah. If I had been in ward 3, the police would have asked me where I was going. They would have asked me for some identification and they would have, let me go. Yeah, but no, I was in a street that in an area that is being gentrified and the the longtime residents are seen as people who need to move. So, let's the same thing. I remember, they were stopping people just routine traffic stops at 1:00 in the morning, up by 14th and Irving. I had to take a late bus to some place. I was getting on the, on the train when the train still ran that late and I noticed they were Were just stopping everybody coming up 14th Street and I said this is this is more harassment. Yeah okay so How how do you know you keep or how is there a push? What are the efforts to kind of combat this? So that old residents can also feel safe. Is there any push or protest happening for police to kind of calm down? Well, there is a group that works with the ACLU, stop. police Terror project that working with black lives matter and pan-african Community Action to organize people to Combat this. Okay. I'm sorry. Tyrone. I'm in the midst of an interview. That's why I haven't been answering. That is that is right. Right by the h2h for bus. Bus stop W. No. The last stop of the first stop

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for that. Actually, is the first stop. Yeah. And it should be a sign right there that says a you shuttle. Yeah.

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And it's really hard to get to this building. So yeah, we I think we were continuing to talk a little bit about the policing and I did kind of want to focus on this because In our interviews and our research. We've noticed that when it comes to Malcolm X park, there is a record of policing, either being an issue, or it's just becoming more proud of