00:00:00.540 - 00:00:22.340

Linda down this evening, we finally were able to find a common date. So I'm going to be here around four. So, okay. No, no, that's great. And I just finished talking to Alexis and I was telling her about this project. And I think it's right now, is it for our class or no? It's pretty much our class and right before. Right before, okay.

00:00:22.340 - 00:01:07.660

But definitely if we can, and then a lot of it has to do with funding and all of that. So if we can get some more, She's definitely on the list. I can tell her it's our class and before right now, but if we can get the funding, we'll expand it. Okay, I just wanted, because I told her a little bit about it. She said, oh, I didn't know. Anyhow. Okay, here we go. I'm ready. Okay, so why don't we start with your name and years you were at AU and your major. Okay, all right. Well, my name is Mary Braxton Joseph. I was at American University from 1968 to 1972. And I was a double major, history and communications.

00:01:10.760 - 00:05:45.640

Okay. So why did you, you're from Plainfield, New Jersey, lots of opportunities, lots of schools between here and there, why AU? I chose AU because quite frankly, I like the recruiter. A lady with red hair came to Plainfield High School one afternoon and talked to some of us and I said, American University, Washington, D.C., Library of Congress. That sounded like a good combination to me because at that point I was planning to be a history major and I wasn't sure. I didn't think I was going to be an armchair historian, nor did I think I was going to be a history teacher. But my love of history was something I felt very strongly about, and I thought any research I would ever want or need to do, I could do it at the Library of Congress and Washington, D.C. Seemed like a logical place. I had been to Washington once before on my way to rural Virginia with my Uncle Frank. We took a road trip And I remember going past the White House and passing it, not realizing that was the White House because it was situated in downtown. Anyway, I had an affinity for Washington, DC. And so American University seemed like a good choice. And was it, What are your fondest memories? Oh, I have several fond memories. First of all, I arrived at AU sight unseen. The weekend that I was supposed to visit the campus, My mom was sick, I could not go. So when I arrived in September of 1968, I was seeing the campus for the first time. What struck me about the trip there was Massachusetts Avenue. Going by all those embassies, I said, wow, this is a really cool place. Little did I know that years later, I would be involved in the diplomatic life, married to an ambassador and living in the US Embassy in South Africa. So it was sort of a preview of things I couldn't have known at the time, but that was one memory, my first arrival. Another good memory was getting hired to work in the admissions office. This would have been my sophomore year because I was a student member of the admissions committee. So I got to see up close and personal how people were admitted. So when we hear a lot of discussion about universities and admittance, I'm like, okay, no. If you were a legacy of a person, you've got certain points. If you were a veteran, you got certain points. So don't tell me you can't make race one of those certain points. So I got to see it up close and personal and I'm happy to say that AU cast the net widely even in 1969, they seem to want diversity. They value diversity. And I thought that was, I thought I was in the right place. Another good memory was being awarded a radio internship. My junior year, I competed along with about 100 other people for a radio internship, a paid radio internship with WWDC Radio, and I got it. And I think I got it because, in large part, because I had a very good reference, and I'll talk about this later, but when I was just out of high school, and because I could type, I got a job at my hometown newspaper, which happened to be a Gannett newspaper. And I worked there for two summers. And I think that reference helped me when I went through the radio internship, because I was nervous as all get out, but the folks were friendly. And I must have done a good job. I got the internship. And when the interview was over, one young man who was part of the panel, the interview panel, came to me and he said, when your radio internship is over, call me and I'll see if I can get you into television. And that guy was, his name was Terry Green. He was an account executive. He was about to leave radio and go to television. He was going to Channel 7. So that's what I did. And when the radio internship ended, I called Terry and I said, I'm about to graduate, can you help me? And he put me in touch with a lady named Eleanor Brown, who was with the channel seven at the time. And that's how I started a channel seven. So I tell people references count. Do the best you can. Because references count.

00:05:47.680 - 00:07:51.720

Absolutely. So you asked me about other good times. I'll go on. I made a list. Another good time was being appointed resident advisor on the black cultural floor. We ate together, we played together, we commiserated together, but I was in charge of some 50 plus young African American women. And it was my pleasure to be dorm mother, if you will. And we, you know, encountered some challenges but had a lot of joyous good times. One time we actually hosted Curtis Mayfield and his band. They came to campus and when the performance was over they came up on the floor and we cooked for them and entertained them. We just had a really good time. There's a great camaraderie, a great sisterhood, because we were on a predominantly white campus. And for all of us to be able to get together and relax, as it were. It was really a good time. And I think that may have, aside from the fact that my dad died when I was young, and so I grew up in a House full of women, I think the fact that I was a resident advisor on this floor instilled in me the beauty of and the need for equality for women. And That fueled a lot of things later on, becoming head of Planned Parenthood in both North Carolina and in Sarasota, Florida, and also working to get women elected to office. So I think the values that I learned going through the process of being a resident advisor helped compel me to want to work on behalf of women. Okay, I've lost your audio. I'm sorry, I muted myself so I wouldn't have other sound. That's okay.

00:07:52.820 - 00:18:41.260

That is a great segue into another question, but before I go into that, in terms of, you know, sort of how the role you played in terms of your future endeavors. What were some of the challenges while you were there? Oh, money was definitely a challenge. I was the eldest of three girls. My mom was a single mom. And so coming together, coming up with the money was a real challenge. So that's why I worked. An unknown story, my first semester at AU, my mother called and said, honey, I don't have the money, you can't come home for Thanksgiving. So I ended up spending Thanksgiving in the dorm. Now, I had, yeah, people don't know that. I, you know, I didn't make a big deal of it. This great lady, one of my neighbors in Anderson Hall lent me her television. So I had a TV and somebody invited me over for Thanksgiving dinner, but I couldn't go home. I didn't realize how, I think at that time, what credit hour was something like $800 a credit hour. It was a real stretch for my family. So whenever I can contribute to anybody, to anybody's scholarship, I try to, because every little bit counted. I, of course, had scholarship money, but it was still a strain for my family. So I would say money was a challenge. I would say that Washington, D.C. Is a great place to be. I think I grew in other ways other than in the classroom, which is a nice way of saying I was a little distracted initially because, woo-hoo, I was away from home for the first time. But, and also trying to navigate the change in our country. That was a challenge. You know, Vietnam was raging. You know, the guys around me were worried about having the getting a low draft number. And, you know, it was just the Vietnam War, was it just, was it unjust? What were we doing there? It seemed like a lot of black kids were dying there. Before I entered AU, a Marine who was from my hometown was killed in 1964. His name is Kent Jordan. He's on the Vietnamese monument in Washington. But we all felt like how senseless the guy was. He was just beginning his life. And, you know, and now of course we know there were a lot of bad calls around the war strategy for Vietnam. And we lost, what, 50, 000 men, many of whom were people of color, so, were black guys. So, it weighed on me. I mean, I wasn't, did it keep me up at night? No, but I was very much into the demonstrations that were going on, even on Ward Circle, right in our vicinity, because the war was unjust. And then when those kids got killed at Kent State, the police used live ammunition, it just seemed like things weren't right in the country. And we had to do something to make them right. And so That weighed on me. It was a question of conscience. I stayed in school. I got my degree because I felt that was the best thing for me and for my family, but it, it, it, the whole situation in the country weighed on me. Not to mention, we later found out Watergate. I actually worked at the Democratic headquarters before the Watergate break in. So I had a great deal of interest in what was going on there too. But anyway, so societal pressures, I think, societal upheaval was a challenge. Do I go demonstrate or do I go to class? What can I do? What can I do to make things better? So it was a challenge. Wow. And so many ways, But all of those things came together. The role that AU played, all the time that you were there, came together to propel you to even greater, greater influence, if you will, later on. Can you tell us about that? Oh, okay. So my, I have to give credit to a good friend of ours, Linda Shaw. Then she was Linda Alston Shaw. I met Linda my sophomore year was her freshman year and she was raving about this communications course she was taking. And it was early enough in the semester. So I added it, got hooked on communications. I often wonder and ended up in television. I often wonder had I not met Linda how I might not have gotten into communications. And she actually started working at Channel 7 before I did. But because I got interested in communications, I double majored. I ultimately got my degree in history, I should say, but I double majored. I started taking communications courses and ended up in television. I had worked print, did radio and ended up in TV. And I owe a lot to Linda Alston Shaw for that intervention, if you will, for that introduction. So in television, I started at the bottom and worked my way up. Was very interested in issues. Worked the floor. I was a floor director. I was a public affairs assistant. I was a film editor. I mean, I did a lot of different things, but got hired to work full-time permanent in radio. And that was a big plus for me because the morning radio team, Curt Henshin and Bud Steele, They were no-nonsense professionals. And you had to rip that copy and make those police and fire rounds. You had to have your stuff together. So it was very good training. And that led me to the number two position in the editorial department. So I was right there dealing with issues, issues that I could have a say in, as it were, depending upon the research, and I was in charge of research. I had some sway over presenting the facts to an editorial board so we could take a position. So one of the first assignments I had to research was whether or not the station should call for, and at that point, we were all one station, whether or not the station should call for the resignation of then President Richard Nixon. So I'm 24 years old and I'm like, you want me to do what? But I did. I talked to everybody in our reporting staff. I talked to people on the Hill. I talked to people in civil society. And the conclusion was he was lying and he needed to go. So we actually, as a board, decided to call for his resignation. And we did so a week before he actually resigned. So when I think about dealing with issues while I was at AU, I was able to translate that into a passion for facts and research and it culminated in becoming the editorial associate. Sometime later, the company broke up and I ended up going with television, and I became editorial director in 1979. Again, looking at issues, we looked at things like the Equal Rights Amendment. We looked at things like raising the drinking age to 21. At that time, most teenagers were dying because they were killed in crashes because they had been drinking and driving. And so we had a hand in getting the Congress to raise the drinking age or they wouldn't get highway funding money. So I was able to, again, translate that passion into something concrete. I was able to do the research and make the recommendation and have the station come out in favor of one position or another. Getting the handguns off the street. That was a long time effort by Channel 7. I mean, I can't tell you how many ad nauseum, if you will, how many editorials we did. And eventually, we did get the handguns off the street. The problem was you couldn't, you could go to Maryland or Virginia and buy handguns. So I think we made a lot of valiant efforts. I think we spoke out on things that were important to people. And I always felt like I had the time to do the research so I could do something that most people didn't have the time to do and I was going to give it my best shot and discuss it with the editorial board and come up with something that was reasonable, fair, and well thought out. So that's a long way of answering your question. That's one way. That's one way. I also had the pleasure of working on the civil code, the DC civil code. I joined an organization called the DC Business and Professional Women's Clubs. And I was a member of their Chevy Chase chapter. It was a wonderful lady there who was an assistant US attorney named Pat Froman, who asked me if I would be interested in working on a task force, our job was to take the sexist language out of the DC criminal code. It was in 1974, it was laden with sexist language. And so we did that for a whole year. We just went statute by statute, inch by inch, and we got it done. But again, this working with women, being a den mom, if you will, and then getting into issues from an editorial standpoint, AU fueled all of that, I think. I don't know that I would have been as interested in women's rights. I don't know that I would have become a women's advocate had it not been for that experience at AU. So that was another immediate illustration. Of course, went on to do other things, Planned Parenthood and Lillian's List in North Carolina. So, but I look at where I started and I realized what I did when I left AU was a natural extension.

00:18:43.700 - 00:20:43.580

Absolutely. Yeah, it was a natural extension, so. And then how did you extend that to philanthropy? Oh, how did I extend that to philanthropy? How did I extend that to philanthropy? Well, I think I always felt that you could do so much good that philanthropy was sort of the research and development arena of philanthropy. I mean, yes, you could make grants to help with different causes, but you could also make grants to do research. For example, the whole 911 system started as a research grant. It was the, oh gosh, help me out Joy, the foundation in, I think they were, they in New York, New Jersey. Oh, not MacArthur. It's another, Robert Wood Johnson. Robert Wood Johnson. Yes, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. They also did hospice. Yes, right. Made a grant so we could look at wouldn't it make sense to have a system for emergencies? That started because a foundation got behind a research effort. White lines on the highway, same thing. That started because a foundation got behind a research effort. So I think philanthropy can be very helpful in advancing society by making strategic grants, by giving people the money so they can study things to make things better. So that would be my answer to that. In addition to just making really good grants to sustain organizations that are doing good things. You know, I think, I don't think philanthropy, when I think philanthropy, I don't think charity as much as I think money to help different organizations better their communities.

00:20:47.260 - 00:31:38.800

Yeah, you have done something that very few, well, very few of us in, you know, at AU, our class before or after have done, And that's to represent the United States in a foreign country. Can you tell us about that? And how did that, how did AU help in that effort? You know, sort of preparing you for it or do you see any link towards that? Oh yeah, well, AU I think prepared me for the world. One thing about American University with the different, you know, SIS and CAS and the different schools, people were all, it was always, there was always something going on. We had interesting speakers to come to campus. We had people who were different come to campus. I mean, When we entered in 1968, I think we were the, we had at that time the largest number of African American students, black students, I believe, in the history of the, well, I shouldn't say that, I think for that decade, let me put it that way, because we found out that there were other black students earlier, but I think we had the largest incoming class. And, but we also had people who were not American citizens on campus. I remember that and I remember thinking, this is pretty cool. I'm being exposed to folks I might not otherwise see. So from that standpoint, getting used to seeing people who didn't look like me started at AU. And I felt like it did prepare me. So by the time my husband and I, rest his soul, got to South Africa, where there had 11 official languages and every country under the sun wanted to be there because they wanted to help build a new South Africa. So moving into that environment was less jarring. It was one that I greeted with enthusiasm, not fear. And I think that started with exposure to different cultures, different looking people, that started at AU. So representing my country, oh, that was a thrill of a lifetime. Representing my country in South Africa when Mr. Mandela was president. You know, who knew? Who knew this little kid driving down Massachusetts Avenue with her mom and her two sisters trying to find American University, looking at all these embassies and saying, oh, this is cool. Who knew that I'd end up representing my country. And so while my husband was at the embassy, I was running our house, basically. I had a staff. It was like a small business. I had a staff. We did a lot of entertaining because in those days, everybody wanted to come to South Africa and everybody wanted to meet Mr. Mandela. And everybody couldn't, but we could do a reception. You know, we had at least five cabinet officers came twice a year, sometimes more than that, I think, the Commerce Guy, because we were trying to do business in South Africa. And then it was Daley came like five times. Al Gore came twice, he was vice president at the time. Hillary came, Bill Clinton came. I mean, everybody came. We had state delegations, we had city delegations, I mean, everybody came to South Africa. So we did a lot of entertaining. We also went to a lot of functions. They have, when you're in the diplomatic corps, they have something called National Days. So our National Day is the 4th of July. So whenever a country would celebrate a National Day, you invite all the other embassies to come. So I went to my husband, Jim hated it. He hated going to National Days, but I liked it because by then I was playing Mahjong once a week with about 25 ambassadors' wives. We had our own little informal network. We'd talk about things, the things we could talk about. I remember on one occasion, I got cornered by the Palestinian representative's wife and the Syrian ambassador's wife. They wanted to know why they hadn't been invited to our National Day, why they weren't invited to the Fourth of July. And I had to tell them, we got specific, because there were countries we didn't have a relationship with, we got specific instructions, you are not to invite these people to any, any national function, any, any function that you yeah. So when you get an instruction like that, you can't. So I explained to them, especially to the Palestinian representative's wife, even though Arafat at that point had been to the White House, we did not have official relations with Palestine. And so we could not invite them. And the Syrian representatives, it was the same thing, we didn't have a relationship with Syria. So you couldn't go against the rules. Now, those were the rules. We didn't tell them everything. We did go under the radar to, let me see, was it a birthday party for the, yes, oh, it was a farewell for the Palestinian representative was leaving. And so I think they, somebody hosted a meeting where they invited folks we didn't have a relationship with, among them the Cuban ambassador and his wife. So I ended up sitting next to the Cuban ambassador. We didn't tell the embassy we were doing this. We got an invitation. We just didn't put it on the schedule. We just went, it would happen over a weekend. And I ended up sitting next to the Cuban ambassador. And so he was asking me, why were we doing embargoes and everything? And I said, basically, what I told him was what I knew I could tell him. And that was the politics of Cuba, it was all local, that the folks in Little Havana and Miami weren't having it. And they were the ones who were the most upset with Castro. So basically, I couldn't offer him much in the way of solace. But what I could offer was that not all of us felt the same way that, you know, we thought it was crazy, but we had to, you know, if the president, you know, was going to be listening to the Cubans, you know, well, you remember, you remember that whole thing with Janet Reno and Ileana Gonzalez, you know, they, they, they wanted to keep that little boy here and everything in family law said he needed to be with his father. His father was in Cuba, he needed to go back. But they were nuts. They had to literally kidnap that boy in the middle of the night to send him back to his father. So the emotions ran high. And you're sort of in the middle of that if you find yourself seated next to somebody. And I'm sure they put me next to him because they couldn't put Jim next to him. They couldn't put the ambassador next to him but they could put his wife. And his wife was very happy to let him know what she thought. And I did. So we had a good time. But you got to, it's, you know, something else had happened when, shortly after we arrived, the head, the dean of the diplomatic corps was from Taiwan. And he had, you get to be the dean if you are in a country the longest. So whenever diplomats are invited somewhere, you get top seating if you're the dean. So we got instructions that, oh, I know, I wanted to have a meeting with some people from Taiwan. I forget what the issue was. And so I thought I better ask before I did anything. And I was basically told, do not meet with these people from Taiwan. I didn't know why, they wouldn't tell me, but I was instructed not to. And about six weeks later, South Africa officially recognized China, mainland China and not Taiwan. And the folks at our State Department knew it and they didn't want any confusion. So that's the other thing you learn when you're in the diplomatic corps. Sometimes things are going on in other parts of the world that you have no knowledge of, nor should you. And so, I was happy for the guidance. I understood why, you know, as time unfolded, but it was, it was, we do a lot of things, which, which brings me to something current day that I'm going to get a little political. People wonder why folks are so upset about classified documents not going to the archives, not being protected. When you really get into our whole arena of diplomacy, you realize among other things, people tell us stuff that helps us keep it, stay ahead of the game. So we have, we have, I won't call them spies, interlocutors is what I think we call them. We have people in different parts of the world who feed us information. Well, if their identities are ever disclosed, we're screwed. We will not have access to that inside information that can only be described as human intelligence. You learn some things by eavesdropping and everybody does it, but human intelligence is invaluable. So when somebody has to rage your compound to get documents that you should have, you had every opportunity to hand over. You deserve to have the book thrown at you because you could be endangering people's lives. Let me put it that way. And dropping a curtain on some very valuable information that we need. So it's more than just documents, it's what those documents contain. Exactly. And thank you for breaking it down. I mean, because I think most people, at least with half brain, get that. Yeah.

00:31:38.800 - 00:32:57.540

But it's the other third that it's just paper. It was in the bathroom. I mean, So anyway, absolutely. But yeah, and I do see that thread. Through your whole life has been, I mean, it's still the one thing has built upon the other. The communications piece that you got at AU, the diplomatic piece. I mean, you were as much a diplomat as Jim, let's face it. And then just as an aside for Leslie, every job I ever got was because of Mary Braxton Joseph, every single job. I'm the switchboard operator. That's what Cynthia used to say. I put person A in touch with person B, I was happy to do it. I was happy to do it. And now you're the mother of the governor, I love it, yay. See, he saw you in all those jobs, you know what I'm saying? But, you know, and I think that one of the things that's coming through throughout the interview process is the importance of what AU brought in terms of relationships. Oh, yeah.

00:32:59.160 - 00:34:18.140

And So I think that is one of the strongest, you know, sort of, that has braided us together, which I think is what has made our era, our group so successful. Yeah. And still to this day, so, so close. Absolutely. We form lasting friendships. Think about it. Lasting friendships. And I'm just grateful because you all have been just such a big part of my life, but it's lasting friendships that have endured the test of time, the good times, the bad times, the not so hot times, the wonderful times. We've just, lasting friendships. I think that's maybe my biggest takeaway as I think about all the threads from AU, the lasting friendships, the having the conversations at a time when you could hear each other. That the advice we gave each other, the consoling we gave each other, the joy we gave each other, you know, just year after year after year after year, decade after decade, it's no small point.

00:34:19.600 - 00:36:07.020

Absolutely, 50 plus, 50 plus years. So what advice, given, cause I, you know, I'd like to think that, you know, what we have had and have is somewhat unique, But I don't think it's something that is absolutely un... I would say that people cannot replicate it. What advice would you give kids there now and coming in the future in terms of realizing, preparing themselves to become change makers? Well, I would say seek out internships. Internships or any job you can possibly land and do it to the best of your ability because I think what helped me along the way was good references. I mentioned this earlier. You have to, and I don't care how menial the job seems, I don't care how uninterested in it you may be, I don't care how boring it may be, do the best job you possibly can, because you will need that reference to get you to the next job or the next opportunity. So that would be my advice. Do the best that you can wherever you are, because that will catapult you to something better. Absolutely. Is there anything that you would like to add that we've not talked about? We could talk for hours. We could definitely talk for hours.

00:36:07.680 - 00:38:37.980

And we do most of the time. Absolutely. I think AU is a great place to grow, to learn and to grow, I think. Because that was one of the questions. American University is a great place to learn and grow. I think that I matured when I was at AU after I got over that, woo-hoo, I'm away from home. After I settled down a little bit, I really enjoyed my classwork. I loved history. We had a professor named, I think his name was DeBacco. Thomas DeBacco, I think. He was absolutely, he brought history to life. He not only told you what happened, he told you why it happened. You have the advantage of having some wonderful professors take it all in. So I thought I learned a lot. I learned there's another guy named James Onder who was head of the television communications. He was very good. I learned a lot about the TV communications through him, about running a camera. I mean, it was my first hands-on in a TV studio. So I took it all in. And I think I grew a lot of times outside of the classroom, getting involved in activities, paying attention to what was going on around me. You know, when we got to AU, there was a Mayor Commissioner, Walter Washington, and there was a drive for home rule. And that home rule was realized, I think in maybe 74. Yeah, I think in 1974, of course we got the unfunded pension liability with it, but we did get home roll. So pay attention to what's going on around you, what's going on in your community, what's going on in your city, because there are going to be opportunities that you may be able to take advantage of. So again, AU is a great place to learn and to grow, and I would say take full advantage of it. Great. Wonderful. Leslie, is there anything you'd like to add or ask? No further questions from me.

00:38:41.520 - 00:38:54.440

This has been great. Oh, it's great. So how have the other, if I can ask a question, how have the other interviews been going? Did you get Russell today? Just finished with him. He said to tell you, hello. Oh, that's nice.

00:38:54.440 - 00:39:23.900

That is nice. That is nice. And we got Musa earlier, Pam and Ty, Fanta and Gerald yesterday. Yeah, I saw the picture of you and Gerald and I saw the other picture. I was gonna write Vicky back and say, take a close look at the lady in the front row. She didn't realize that was you, but I said, I'll give her a chance to examine the picture more closely. When was that taken? The one with Gerald?

00:39:24.320 - 00:39:41.340

Yeah. Yesterday. No, no, the old one, the one with you in the front row. Wasn't that you in the front row? Did you see the picture? I don't know which picture. Oh my gosh, he's at the podium. And it looks like you were sitting in the front row.

00:39:42.500 - 00:40:37.860

Was that when he was confirmed? No, no, no, no, no. This is when he was a high school student. You didn't see that? Let me see. No. Oh, honey, yeah. Yeah, I came out. It was yesterday and I decided I wasn't gonna say anything. I was gonna let Vicky, you are, it looks like he's at the podium. He had, he's, he sent it out. He said, do you recognize anybody? Yes. We talked about our journey. This photo was taken in my first class at AU and Professor Edward C. Smith's class. I was a 17 year old high school student attending AU in the evenings in the Pride AU program and high school by day. Do you recognize anyone in the audience? And you are, I swear this is you Joy. I believe this is you. Yes. Yes.

00:40:39.100 - 00:40:50.100

Okay. Yes, I think that's you. He's at the podium. I don't see that. There was a picture he sent out. Yes.

00:40:51.100 - 00:41:10.820

Was I included on that? Oh, I'll have to look and see. I'm just looking to see who else is in the audience. But I'm pretty sure he was referring to you. I don't think he was referring to anybody else. But this looks like you. I swear this looks like, okay, let me, I'll send this to you. Can you send it to me please? Yes.

00:41:13.320 - 00:41:23.040

Oh, It is here. It sure is. Isn't that you? Yes. Isn't that you? Yes. Yeah, you got a watch on.

00:41:23.360 - 00:41:35.360

You got a watch, I have my hair all wrapped up. Hair tied up, right. That's you. Oh my gosh. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

00:41:43.780 - 00:42:07.620

I think I still might have those shoes. Oh, wow. Not quite, but. Well, he's got the podium and he you look like you're saying, okay, I'm gonna let this brother make his point. I thought it was so cute. I said, that's got to be joy. That's got to be joy.

00:42:07.820 - 00:42:48.900

That absolutely is me. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Had a short skirt on too and everything. Yeah, girl. Well, you know, that was the 60s. We were swinging 60s, you know. Yeah, but anyway, so if he was 17, he was still in high school. So he came a year after us. Yeah, so you must have been freshman year. You were a freshman, Yeah. Yeah. Come on, girl. Isn't that something? So speaking of pictures, I'm going to try to send you some. There's a picture, three shot of you, me and Pam that was taken at Cheryl's retirement party.

00:42:49.020 - 00:43:54.000

His retirement party. Yeah. His retirement party. When he was, Because we also have pictures of us when he was, it's not installed, or when he became a federal judge. OK, I think this is a retirement party because Gerald and Edna were not there. They, he had gone to have lunch with his interns or something. So I think it was a retirement party. So I have a three shot of us. I'm trying to find another, Vicky had one of all of us, we were real young. I think we must've been like freshman year. We were sitting somewhere, We were on like a step. And anyway, I'll see if I can find that. And then I have, you know, I have, you know obviously pictures of Jim and me with Mandela. I'll look and see if I have anything else. When do you need photos? When do you need photos? Okay, And can I send them to you or Leslie? To Leslie would be... Yeah, to me...

00:43:54.000 - 00:44:26.540

I'd love to see them as well. I don't know when we'll need them for production, but I can definitely keep them safe if you just want to get something off your to-do list. You can definitely send them my way. I can give you, well, you probably have my email, but I can put it in the chat. Okay, I think, yeah, you're on one of these email chains, but yeah, I've got a pen, you can give it to me. Okay, it's Lnellis, that's my first initial and my last name, at American.edu.

00:44:28.440 - 00:44:46.560

L-E-L-L-I-S? L-N-E-L-L-I-S. L-E-N-L-E, one more. One more time. It's L-N-E-L-L-I-S. At American.edu.

00:44:48.340 - 00:44:54.900

L-N-E-L-L-I-S? Yes. At American U? Correct.

00:45:01.620 - 00:45:36.020

Okay, great. All right, I will, I'll try to send you what I have tomorrow maybe. I'll try to find them today, but I'll try to send them to you tomorrow and you can decide how you, if you want to use them. Sure. I was looking for something more, you know, Jo, I don't have a lot of pictures of us. Yeah, I was trying to think. We were younger. Younger, yeah. Yeah. We didn't have phones and...

00:45:36.020 - 00:46:10.900

Yeah, right. We sure didn't. We sure didn't. I'm going to look to see what I have. Do you have anything? I know you were on campus, off campus. What... I mean, most of the stuff that I had went into the Uhuru. Right. And that's... I was never in it. I threw the wrong hat at the camera. Right. Absolutely. Yeah, I was trying to think. I don't know if Pammi has. Yeah, maybe Ty. Ty is usually, he's a historian. So,

00:46:10.900 - 00:46:26.540

yeah. And maybe, maybe Mark might have some, because he started his, his fetish with, with photographs. Yeah, yeah, That's okay. I'm gonna look and see what I have. Sure.

00:46:26.600 - 00:47:25.740

I definitely have the three shot of us. They're gonna have to get rid of all the glasses and the plates in front of us because we had finished dining, but I do have that I can send. We talked about lifelong friends. Oh, that's wonderful. That shot and there's one with Mandela and I'll see what else I have, But I'll send it to you, Leslie. That sounds great. And we'll be in touch about the release form. And I know, we'll try to keep the project going, whether it's more interviews, or whatever phase two of production will be now that we have a bunch of content. So I know we'll be working together into the future. And I was going to send Yesterday, Joy, Ty, and Pam were talking about some of the Ward Circle protests, and we've got some film footage of that in the archive that I was going to send out.

00:47:26.520 - 00:47:50.780

Oh, great. And I don't... I'm sorry. I didn't know if you knew that we have the Uhuru papers online as well, but we don't have a complete run. So if anybody has back issues, I'd be happy to digitize them and return them or add them to the archive. So we don't have a lot of the earlier issues. I think our run starts in like 73 maybe.

00:47:51.900 - 00:48:34.660

Well, I know that we had the early one with the guys when they were demanding stuff. I know I've seen that. And I think, who has that? Maybe Musa or Tyrone, someone. But we can find out. Okay? Yeah, fabulous. And also, what I didn't know, I found out today that Leslie has the list of demands that, you know, that whole thing when we took over the A building. Oh my goodness. That's the item we had, what we demanded. Oh my goodness. Was that in Uhuru or was that a separate document?

00:48:34.840 - 00:49:00.560

We have the document. I don't know if this, I guess it was distributed around campus maybe, but it was in President Williams' paper. So who knows? It might've been the list of demands that one of you handed in. That's where it's filed. That is great. So he was our president one time. President, yeah. 68 to 75. For our whole time at A&M. Okay.

00:49:01.340 - 00:49:33.900

Yeah. And his papers are very well documented during that time period. You mean he didn't put them in the bathroom? No, surprisingly not. And they're not particularly flattering of him, so I'm surprised. But yeah, it's fascinating. So I have a lot of treasures that I'll have to get back to y'all. Yeah, this is great. We need to do a Zoom tour of the archives. That would be great.

00:49:33.900 - 00:49:47.520

I'd be happy to. Yeah, yeah. That might be a little mini documentary come to think of it. Yeah, it jogs, it might jog some different memories. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. That's great. Anyway, well, I know.

00:49:47.520 - 00:49:51.730

I'm going to run, get downtown. I'll give you a call later when we're with, when we're done.