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It is October 18th 2019 and this is an interview of Nancy Shia by Merit Orchard. For the Meridian Hill Park oral history. Project recorded at the national Press Club in downtown Washington. D.c., do I have permission to record this interview? Yes. Could you start off by sharing a brief introduction of who you are and then see, Shia senior citizen. I've lived in d.c. for about 45 years.

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When did you first come to Washington? D.c. 1972. I came here to go to Moscow that you complete law school. Did you continue? I actually I did. It took me more than three years I finished in 1978 and when I finished, I was pregnant with my first kids. So I became a mother before I ever became a lawyer and then I went into photography from there, so oh,

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But in education never hurts. What neighborhood you live in? I lived in Adams Morgan at the corner of Columbia and Ontario Rose.

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What do you like about? You know, there's a lot of convenience. There's a grocery store across the street. There's one down the street. There's buses. There's two different metros, so that's kind of what I like about it now. It's different now but it's still cool. So we're going to turn to the park. Do you remember the first time that you came to Meridian Hill? I think the first time was probably when I was four, I can't say, I specifically remember it, but every four years my family would do a road trip from Connecticut to Tennessee and we would stop in Washington DC. Go to the Smithsonian. And on the way down, 16th Street, we would always

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stop at Malcolm X Park. I don't know if it means it's something to do with my parents romance because during the World War Two, my dad was a soldier and my mom was a teacher in the South and they often met in Washington DC. But as a kid, we would always stop at Malcolm. A spark, which was then Meridian Hill, and that was in the 50s. So in my memory of it is the Fenton and you can't erase a memory like that from the, the fountain From Below looking up. And then there's the pool right next to it. So maybe as a four-year-old, I was able to jump into the big pool knows it's a powerful image. Do you remember the

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next time you went? Although you know, when I was in college, I was in college in New York City, we would come down to d.c. it was during anti-vietnam war. And there are vague memories of being in a park that's like that. So but I don't have anything specific. What's your or how would you describe Malcolm X Park to someone who isn't familiar historically? Malcolm X park has been a place welcoming to African Americans or people. All people of color. And so I remember, it is starkly as that and I don't go there a whole lot now, but it's so obviously different now, that there's still, of course, a lot of people of color there, but it's not predominant. Now, it seems at least on a Sunday maybe during the week. It's a little different and the other memory, which is like an ongoing memory. Every time you go there there would be It wouldn't just be on the Sunday. It would be almost everyday. It's a place for people to. I'm told it was a great hook up place for LGBT. I didn't know that. That's all I have to say about that. Yeah, you mentioned first

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about it being a predominantly African-American and space and space for people of color. What do you think's important about that generally? But then also maybe in the nation's capital. Well, I think, It's really important. That people know, there were a lot more people of color living in our community and expressing themselves in our community and the culture expressed like in the 70s. And even the 80s is way more than there is now because now they have the drum circle and it's Confined to one spot in the park or one end of the park. You know, unless it's in the 70s and 80s, you come into the park and then be drums on this bench and then across the way and then down the end and stuff like that. So it'd be. So there's a big difference that way.

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Yeah. How else have you seen the communities around the park change since you first moved here? no, well that's you know, I mean, Probably from maybe even into the 80s. You know, there was low income people tenant, they were tenement buildings and there were, there were some nice buildings around the park. My sister lives in a building, which is on 15 Street. One block up It's really nice. It was considered a Class C address, and the Warder Totten where they built the condo above it. That's where the law schools. So, because law school was so close. And then, the law school is up. What is it? Chris had place. There was a mansion up there. So the proximity the park was just amazing. I mean you almost had to go through the park to get from one school, one building of the school to another

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and what that have been in the 70s. Yes he has a lot school was founded in 1972. It's now the Dave Clark you DC law school but then it was Antioch School of Law. So as founded in the fall of 70 Me too. And I finished I was with the first class, but I finished in 78 and then I don't know when it moved when it moved out of the Mansion was the Meyer Mansion where Katherine oh, Katherine Graham. Katharine Graham on the post, it was the Graham family. And so she grew up in this mansion and I think it's called the Eugene and Agnes, which are her parents. She's long gone now, too. What is what's his name? His has taken over the post but Anyway, she grew up in the mire house and it's, you wrote Meridian, you know, Meridian house. So Meridian house is located right next to the minor house. And at this point Meridian house, owns the money or house. But before they owned it it was the lost. It was the library of the law school. And before it was library of the law, school is the home of Katherine brain. So the Graham Family gave the building to the law school, so and those Mansions are amazing. The history of that, I don't mean to get off but you've heard of Mary Henderson. So her influence and so that was like I think the Meijer has

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just Overlook the Henderson Castle so the castle wasn't going to have a Shabby house next to it. Anyways so so I swear all of that is now. So imagine like 40 years ago in the 70s,

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it was owned by law. School whole bunch of idealistic people from all over the country who want to do public interest law come come and were forced to live with people in the community and for six weeks, I think that's part of the program. And so we become part of the community. All right then and so that was like the Hub of that was going on in that house back then. Now the meridian How's the name of an organization? But it's like an international. They do a lot of programs. It's another Mansion. They do with like beautiful gardens and stuff. Let's shirts being kicked

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up, but this is the whole area you're doing work on, right? So So, you would use just the walk around there, even if you might not be able to get into the back into the gardens, you could look through the fences and so, but the Meridian house, I know when I was working for the Press occasionally, I get assigned to do a program there and they were like minister of some different country, or is always, International is always very interested. This still interests, So, yeah, that's that whole end of 16th Street right

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across from. So it was probably a great place for any student to get away from the craziness of the law school. It was one a ton of crazy. And then, you know, as The culture is taking the culture, more and more kept happening, like, then in the later 70s. I think the African Liberation day happened in the park. Did

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you read anything about that? History would be curious, do it was there several years and then it wasn't there anymore and I don't know what happened to them and the Caribbean Festival was in the park. This is all like deep African and African American culture and African Caribbean culture. Well, you know, I probably was

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never privilege to experience until I went into the park and then with camera can't, I can't help it getting sucked right in. Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about your photography but and how, how you experience, The park through photography. How did you first become interested in photography?

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This is a funny story so I never really even took an art class in high school. So I always thought I was terribly but you know it's always something I wanted to do because they figured out art suggest. If you can't draw what good are you so in my senior year in high school, there was an art show. Show of the

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art students and one woman ink Drew copy, Dorothea Lange's photographs from the Great Depression. And I think specifically was the Pea Pickers wife, the one that made a stand. And when I saw that ink in the drawing that she might could do that with a camera. And that's exactly the kind of pictures I want to take. So that was like when I was a senior in high school and then my first camera I bought this in September. So I probably saved up money and it was probably the first, I got my first job started in some other than babysitting and started in September. The year, I graduated high school High School. The first thing I did was buy camera and it was a Polaroid swinger, which at the time was a huge deal. Have you ever heard of it? So the slogan for the Polaroid, swinger meet the, swinger the Polaroid swinger. It's more than a camera. It's almost live in phone for only $19 and 95. So Polaroid was, you know you take a picture and it comes

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up. So I did that. I mean that's the purpose of the first photography. I did this with the Polaroid and did it for a year, a little less than a year before I picked up a 35-millimeter camera, which my memory tells me, I had a borrow for a few months or something. I couldn't afford one. But anyways, so I started 35. Mm, probably in the summer. For of 66 because I have negatives from 66. So, my family, my father would take us to a thing called the Maharaj on in Connecticut and Maharaj on. I don't know the translation, but it's basically a festival for Arabs or Arab American Century. Everyone was probably mostly people

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and they would do the specific dances of the culture. So so at pictures of that, so, Culture. So so yeah. In New Haven I started behaving. I would take just pictures of poor people. I mean, that was my focus. I never tried to do weddings. You're drunk taking photos of real people in there. And if, you know, Dorothea Lange, she was kind of my

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inspiration to get faces of people who have no money but to, you know, show the character and humidity and even though whelping very poor people, so How is being a photographer influenced the way you interact with Washington d.c.? I mean I think I can't my first class in photography was in New York in Harlem at the YMCA in Harlem, and the first lesson, the teacher had was never leave the house without your king. So I always follow that if I, if I can and so there's always something.

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Did you get my teeth? Oh no, I'm I sent you a tweet. I came by the White House. And it was kind of quiet until you get past a little past, the White House and you can see what I thought it was kind of funny. Yes. So so always having a camera with you, you're always

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looking in your own minds about what images, what you want to show in a lot of Lon. Going to show poverty is is wanting to change things? Can you find it? Can you hear it? Hearing it is more important.

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It just goes on and on about corruption. Yeah. And so it changes the way that you see the city think, well, I mean, I probably would see the same it just I suppose, it gives me a feeling like I could do something about it. Yeah,

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maybe it's kind of delusional. I think that's true, though. I think that I like to think that artists and photography can change the way that people understand the world around, but right, and I think that that's important, And I think that people in the city know your work too and I think that that's really, really important that people know that your photography has been there for years and that you've captured all of these movements. Do you remember, what brought you specifically to Malcolm X Park to take photos for the first time or just generally? Well, no doubt, if if I was walking by and I heard something going on, it's just hearing it. I would go in because some so curiously want to seem

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nosy, but if I know something's going on, I want to be there, it's just kind of in my blood now so that's probably what drew me is. Is just hearing the sounds.

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Have you always been that way kind of drawn to write moments happening? Right, do you remember if there are any particular favorite moments or really memorable moments that you've captured in the park or just been present for? Well, the one I tried to talk about is is the one where I had been working with the Wilmington 10 defense committee was 1976. And they're trying to get ten innocent people out of jailings, North Carolina,

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and it's real political and its really anti-klan. And we were they were doing a program down by Buchanan. This kind of a stage down and whose lot most The African American people, but a lot of makes people doing. I noticed the Secret Service kind of infiltrating all around us, and it was kind of creepy and I wondered what was happening. And all of a sudden the sound. Wow, Secret Service. Turn the sound off and told us, we couldn't have a rally. And I never found out why? I don't know if there was a reason I don't So I remember that one. I don't really remember specific. That's what I do. Remember. Oh I remember my children were small. There was

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always every summer. There was a program sponsored, I think by Tomorrow's World art some and I would always take the kids. Kids and they would have fun with, you know, face painting and stuff like that. And a couple times, I remember bringing my own photos

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and of course, never selling anything. But the kids would enjoy it and that's when they're pretty small. And there were, there was enough of time in 1976, there was a, a group of Native Americans called the trail and self-determination and it was a lot of people. And they came to the park. And probably did some dancing and singing, I really enjoyed them because they were all dressed up in Native Garb. When I was just beautiful being able to see them expressing their culture. So, That's another one. I remember,

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you know, my friend Joe Buck. Was instrumental in having the part cleaned up and stuff. You've heard much about her. I interviewed Steve Coleman's. Be interested in your perspective as well. Joe was amazing. She

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was she lived by yourself on Swan Street. I think Butler was a married name. Joe's. Probably both. XP and I run into her occasionally because she walked the city she would and she was very, very active, like she started us China friendship, people's us China, people's friendship Association, which became a big thing, I know where it's at now and she's helped start the DC Green party, and but I get to know Joe In the early 80s, when she was the executive director of the ANC. And I was a commissioner and I

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remember going there on my son's first birthday with him and I have plan any party. Right? Because he's one year old, what does he know? She is That we have a party for him. So there's a Steve wants to do something for her. 100th, birthday is coming up and I do have a lot of photos of her. So I'll help him do something. So she was really helpful in the park and she was like always cleaning up neighborhoods and do all kinds

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of stuff. I don't think she ever had any kids. So, but she was very United. She ran for city council. She probably ran for mayor. And she died in 1997. She has some disease that if she weren't poor little probably gotten taken care of. But I remember going to her memorial service and it was the first time I ever had a video camera so I videotaped. It probably still have the video somewhere never used it but it's It's something that I think if somebody were to be doing any kind of really because she deserves at least a book, you know, for all that she did and there's a lot of people who could tell you what she did. Yeah. You know, I mean, have you have you heard of casilla, DeLuna, we did a professor, Moody Professor? Drowned us. Yeah is coming because she wanted to, she's doing a Humanities dripping with afro-latinos. So in January I started going to meetings at the moment, please. Library that they said it was the committee to honor concealed. The Mona Wilkinson was in her 90s and she started a whole lot of organizations and was part of starting a whole lot of organizations and stuff. So the reason why she's so good, it's because she's humble. She's really humble, I mean she's like why are you honoring me? and I think Joe is kind of like that too, but Joe is way more internationally because silver We want to take a moment to talk about

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activism specifically as well do identify as an activist. How would you describe or Define? What your activism looks like? Boy, I do different things for a long time. I did posters and post them in the street. Before that, I did spray paint and spray painted on walls and stuff in the. So, my activism is like trying to get a message out in whatever way I can and not necessarily. Sara Lee just, you know, mainstream media. So the the story about why I joined the Press Club, this is my 25th anniversary of being a member and so in 1994 and fall of 94 marrying, there was running against Carol Schwartz, he the Democrat, she's a Republican. There was scheduled a debate between the two of them in the National Press Club, one day. So the night before I went out with a boyfriend and then boyfriend and we put posters all around this block, and I had done a poster on very, very quick, quote from Barry was it? It's buried time, it's very time and so we put that on the poster but then there was a big picture of Barry on the poster wearing the top blanketed this, plot the night before the debate and I was working in an office on the sixth floor. And somebody came in to me and

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said, oh, they're taking down your posters the next day. So I said, oh no, they can't do that. So I said, I'll just put them back up again. So, I took some out and they're all these big tough, Barry guys taking down my posters and I started to put one up above. You know, where they took it down from when I remember when Wednesday is she

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crazy. You remember Barry coming down? He was already in the club coming down to the street and coming up to me and saying, oh coming with his friends. And what's this commotion? What's going on out here? At the same time, his wife, what's her name to tanous? Lady his then wife. Anyway, she pulled up in a limousine Asbury seeing what's going on? And and she said to me, are you messing with my husband or something like that? And I said, I should, I can't do this and I just walked into the building and walked away from all this. I almost lost my job,

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but I went on up, I mean, during I went to the debate and during the debate, one of Barry's henchmen, who would stand in front of me? And not allow me to photograph. So I kept trying and then he punched me in the face. And I wasn't a member of the club, so I figured, you know, I better become a member of the club

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so that we wouldn't get punched anymore. So that's the story of how I became a member of the club. Do you like align yourself politically in any way through your activism? Or is it causes you're interested in? It's probably more causes. It's just kind of fun to to make posters about politicians. I did. It was in Spring of 2000 in George Bush. Who was running for president of the top. Was in the Prescott.

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So I got to photograph him and he he gave me the best pictures. I had be. By the time I got to photograph him, I had developed the art of what I

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call a pig are, which is people in government and I was able to I make a a lot of them with high or drunk or something. And so, when George Bush was running and I was able to get some really great shots of

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home that summer, I had help but we kept we meet pasted a whole wall of posters. I made on George Bush is cocaine habit and all other kinds of stuff. And so the post, Being lasted probably from May through September on the one meant next door to my building was under construction. So there was a

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plywood where you could make your own billboard. So we did that and put a few up, few pictures of Ravel, Gore and Lieberman who I couldn't stand, who is running without door. So, yeah. So the activism has to do with the art and trying to to give a message and but it's inside. So I'm not

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sure. I really don't do a whole lot of that anymore because they're too many cameras and I don't want to go to jail. So another quick little story about how this was 2003, maybe 2004. So I was out, we pasting a mural with a friend. And and my granddaughter who is about four at the time and it was at night and what we were doing it under a streetlight and Daniela is her name, kind of pulled on my shirt and says, look and they turned around and was to cop some bikes video tables.

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And so they made us take it down and give us a lecture and all this stuff but they didn't notice. And then when they left the me listed, did they work for George Bush? So, so, he activism now is more, I think I'm more focused on the history stuff because I think it's activism just preserving the culture and who we were I'm interested in a lot and how history and activism and farm and interact with each other. So, when you would take photos at

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the park of protests and rallies, did you feel like you were participating or documenting or bully both? Yeah, but I really enjoyed it. But documenting to, I mean, I had no clue. What was in a disappear? If I did, I would have taken more.

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Why do you think that the party is such an important place for people to gather for protests and rallies? Because it's a large space cuz it's not too hard to get it. I don't think through the park service to be able to use it. It's totally Central to the city. I mean, it's a really beautiful beautiful space, there's so much there. That's just gorgeous. Do you know anything about the people who organized the events? Protest grounds, where you ever where you ever familiar with the folks who were doing the welding, Wilmington 10:1. I was Because I was part of the women didn't end up in. School is a National Committee. Probably not. I mean you just hear that this is gonna happen in Malcolm X part sometime, I might know him sometimes.

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Did you ever get was there any sense that there was conflict or tension between different groups? That would use the park for protest or did it kind of seemed I don't recall ever seeing any violence in the park. Any sure there is tension and there is a chance I have seen it and I'm forgetting but I can't remember seeing any kind of its kind of a space where people are happy. Do you have any idea how local residents tended to respond to the space being used for activism protest rallies? The market, they got involved. They came came out and supported it.

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I wonder about that now, though, because it's a different class of people that, but still, I'm sure some of them. Do you know when I occasionally go there I still run into friends.

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Just happened to see ya mean, this is a pretty huge community of people approach protest in d.c. for one thing or another and I'm I'm not a one-issue person. We want to talk a little bit about flick monitoring the park, is how we're talking about it, but like policing, how the, how the National Park Service look after it. So how have you seen everyday uses of the parts looked after either by kind of like police or professional monitors or by community members, kind of pathetic now, because the water is stagnant in the fountain? If a five-year-old kid were to see that and stagnant water would that have as much of an impact on your mind as a flowing Fountain? Probably not something you want to forget from. So it's kind of sad that it's not as well kept. In the last time I was there, the drum circle was pretty pathetic.

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Just a number like fewer people. A lot fewer people. Have you ever seen Park officials or police in the Park? Oh yeah. I mean only you often see please. And again, I'm not talking about me. We were there. Did you see anything?

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We actually did the Think three police people, but they seem to be responding to something. We were just far enough away and it was right when we were leaving. So we didn't we noticed, but we didn't It seems they're not too far away. Do you have any sense that the National Park Service, has an active presence in the park or then or now? No idea. Do you think that there was increased presence during protests and rallies? I would say probably, but I don't. I mean that's Federal now there's no federal money for anybody.

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Yeah, it seems like it seems from what we can tell our especially like the Park Service. Its presence is fairly well with it fluctuates. And which is why like one one reason we're kind of interested in the, like Washington parks and people group and like Community groups that have kind of grown to help. Look at the park in their own way. That's kind of why that's so interesting. Because it's such a community perspective on a place that's technically like a national level. So we want to make sure we talk about the name of the park as well. You refer to the park as Malcolm X Park. What do you know about the efforts to change the name of the park? Nothing. So have you you decided to call it a spark. I suspect. That's what I was told was from the very beginning and my association with people in the park enforce

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that Do you know why people want it to be officially called Malcolm X part and from your perspective? Well for cultural reasons and reading hell, doesn't mean anything to them. Malcolm X does, you know, there's think TC is the thing about naming things after people, then I guess. But I think I mean to me was, it's always been mouth. The next part Meridian Hill. Probably. When I was a kid, my parents called that Meridian Hill, but I didn't remember that. I really didn't know the park and well until I came in the 70s and that's when African Liberation day was happening in the park and the Caribbean Festival is happening in the parking.

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So it was Malcolm X worth Meridian Hill was nowhere to be seen And those were especially like that African-American populations for the folks that you saw using the park more often. Great. That too. Why do you think that some people are like so against calling it Malcolm X park. Because there are, there are so white Say it again.

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I mean they probably don't realize and they probably don't even think there's a reality to white supremacy But it's like, why did you name all those other Parks after Confederate soldiers after the war to honor them? So, It's like racism and so easier to see these days. I don't know. I mean I think if you ask the black population it would be overwhelming Victory name. If you ask the white

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population what do you think 40% would say, okay? Lottery system. There's another element. I wonder if you could speak to it. All of it was an article that we read when we were first starting the project that was talking about, especially, like, newer people moving into the neighborhood hearing that people called it Malcolm X, and he's starting to call it that as, and in the article was commenting that they felt like it was because they were trying to make like a claim as like. Oh, I'm local I'm in the know, I call it Malcolm X instead of Meridian the hill and I wonder what everybody's in the gala. It is fine by you as long as I call it nothing, I've been here a day and I don't consider it cultural appropriation because I think that that's the location. I think we all live in the neighborhood we might as well use the same name for so, you know, I think people are too much on the wrong things.

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Do you think that the debate over the name, reflects the kind of like some existing Community divisions and tensions and like racism like you were mine? Do you think people don't think that stuff is like under the surface? And you never know what is gonna create it to boil over? Like the don't mute DC movement that kind of thing. Just happened because white people think they have the privilege to tell Others how to

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live and so they're always gonna think they have that privilege. So what it'll come up when they assert that privilege in the face of an African American first. Because I I kind of do understand the concept that racism is only for African-Americans. There is discrimination against white people and it's prejudice. but it's Yeah, it it'll happen again. I can't see how until people

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aren't racist in one second. How have you used Malcolm X Park as a space for recreation? Oh, just riding my bike around it. If I want to do bunch of laps for walking. Just getting getting away. I've never played soccer or anything like that.

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Me getting away as and like getting away kind of from the city and to, yeah, when I lift yoga class couple weeks ago, I went through the park, that's where I got all that, that material for the Twitter. So, I walk through the park and photographed, some really pretty spaces, that's kind of recreation. Do you feel like the spaces that are used for kind of like Recreation and appreciated for beauty are different than the activist spaces, or does it all Build Together kind of? Because there are, well, they acted as space is, like, big area for gas and the Beautiful spaces. I mean, I suppose actors used the stage area, which is near Buchanan, although I haven't I've seen much happening there in. But I think the beautiful spaces are the wall that is against Florida. Avenue is like, they're these huge beautiful vases or flower pots full of

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flowers. And it's just, and they're just, they're part of the park there, the stone made out of the same Stone and along that wall is The fence is Stone, but there's like columns in decorations on the stone, that's just really beautiful. And I mean, I'm sure if I went there, like a different times, lighting would be different if you fun to play with

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the lighting. What do you think about the beauty of the park and kinds of design and does it? Does it influence? How you see and interact with the space? It is just really beautiful. I mean it's there's a lot of spaces to it and I'm sure people have their favorite little space. I have a friend who has done Tai Chi for probably about 30 years, and she

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goes to the park to do tai chi alive, and she also teaches in the park, sometime in the area. That's the stage and she does. She'll she's like, so faithful doing it. You know. How Chinese people do tai chi in the parks in New Haven, in New York. So Anyway, it's just inviting for different reasons. That's kind of what makes it seem so special. Yeah. How do you feel when you're in the park? I feel fine. If I'm riding my bike around four laps, I feel energized. It's a great space. Do you feel any different sense of belonging or Comfort at different times of day? Well, I like get better when it's just about ready to get dark because there's less people. So if I'm riding around trying to do laps was people that have to do the weekend is during the week, is more Community people. During the weekend, is more newcomers.

00:52:30.300 - 00:53:18.100

Some people have talked about the sense, Especially I think in the 80s that the perk was dangerous or that you shouldn't go there at night. Did you ever have that sense? Well I mean there's signs there's always been signs that closes it to our I can't remember ever anything dangerous happened. What do you see as the cause of some of the changes in the surrounding a hood that have impacted the parks of gentrification? Yeah, that's most of it. Maybe, I don't want to trash a whole generation.

00:53:21.000 - 00:53:55.100

A lot of times Millennials are entitled or think they're entitled in that, maybe it cause for The destruction of values, Steve's group has done a lot of work to maintain the park. And apparently it just came through some renovation.

00:53:59.000 - 00:54:12.700

But you wonder why parts department doesn't is National Park Service, but why? They don't know why? They don't maintain

00:54:12.700 - 00:55:49.200

it. Do you think that should be the role of the Park Service? Yeah, for sure. No. Well, the national parks of - yeah in such a way that people can get the green from them. What did they say about me? And it's only for Meridian Hill, right? So what do they say about maintaining they we've actually we have one meeting with Parks Folks at the very beginning of the project and that is, that's something I'm really interested in place. It's just like, what, what they feel, they could do a lot of the people we meet are associated with the parks, but maybe aren't powerful enough. It don't have to change but I think they can't bring waters unexcusable. That's most people who have been to the park recently and have spoken with us, mentioned the water and it definitely seems to be a problem Community. Folks are identifying, right? I really is yeah. I feel like you're kind of formed like community and connections through the park. Probably, I mean, they're probably people. I know that I met in the park. I can't think of any right now. Yeah.

00:55:55.300 - 00:56:43.900

One thing I want to touch on briefly is that Malcolm X Park is. So such a central location, like you mentioned, it's really a community-oriented. What do you see the contrast of like Meridian Hill Park is a community space to the National Mall that people might think of more What because it is community. I think people the protest people who come there are more community-minded, you know, you're not going to have a national gun rights. And Malcolm X part is also white gun rights issues. Is that just what, you know, and a lot of protests if they're

00:56:44.200 - 00:56:57.800

oriented towards Occasions. They probably don't think to come to the park. He probably don't know about. No political prisoners. I'm sure those guys

00:56:57.800 - 00:57:37.800

would come to the park. I said different sense of the history of using it. We're their white people feel comfortable using it. I mean, there are white people that do like there was 78. I think it was called the longest walk and I think the leadership of that was cooking and they made allies part a lot. So it's not just

00:57:38.900 - 01:00:38.500

black and white. Is there anything that I haven't asked about that? You feel like it's important to talk about the park or its uses as a community space? I don't think so. Then I went to there's like The specifics of the park is very vague to me right now because I really haven't. The last time I was trying to lose weight, I use it to go around and that was probably about 45 years ago. Yeah, one thing I just think is so interesting about it is that it's like such a meaningful space that people think of connected to protest and to movement. Yeah. Community for then it's also it's a place you can do yoga and like every exercise and picnic with your family or Yaks, under a tree. So it's both like this, like activist space and the space for caring for your body. Or the people in your community and families Tai Chi. But they could, you talk to us a little bit more about the drums? I think that that's something that it's been kind of hard to get people to talk a lot about, but just like, what it, what being at a drum circle and it starts by who's been really instrumental in the drum Studios. Doc something, yes. We had a name. We have a name. Doc something down. Somebody you should talk to, I don't know how to get ahold of him but we have contact information for someone who's kind of helped organize some of the drum circle. So we're hoping that through him, we can maybe who is that? It's whoever's running their Facebook. See the woman or a man? Doc's, last name. What a dump Facebook. But I think I'm friends with him on Facebook, so we'll see what comes up after dog. A million things. Doc Powell. Yes.

01:00:42.400 - 01:01:16.200

And you're he's been involved with the drums. Yeah, yeah I'm not sure that we have contact information for the ladies Did you have any final thoughts or anything you wanted to share? No. But yeah. He's on Facebook.

01:01:20.800 - 01:02:05.900

I'm sure it's photographed him. Yeah. And they do do shows. There's some woman, who does a lot of Dancing with the drummer's Africans. Are first You know, she'll be real nice and you'll be your best friend and all that. And all of a sudden she'll want to sue me for copyright or something like that. So I would just steer clear of her

01:02:06.200 - 01:02:39.600

but she does great dancing. And she, I've seen her maybe a couple years ago. I saw you there dancing. Genetic Rose beerus, she's a journalist. The woman is her daughter, but Janeiro's beerus is pretty well known as a local journalist and she's also a little whack.

01:02:48.400 - 01:02:56.100

That's cool. Yeah, but thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think that your, your impressions of the park is such as an artistic space