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Okay. I think we're settled. Can you hear me? All right. Yeah, I can hear you now.

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Great. Um, thank you for your patience with that. Of course.

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Some technical difficulties, per usual. Um, okay. Cool. Do you have any other questions for me before we just kind of hop

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in? Um, no other questions. Cool. Um, so just generally, if you want to speak a little bit to, um, your experience being a part of the

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program, what it was like, um, we can start there. Okay. Um, so I joined in the 2007, uh, cohort and also the 2008 cohort, um, of WINS.

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Um, the first summer, I believe, I was placed at the Federal Communications Commission, where I worked with the Intergovernmental Affairs office and the tribal liaison within that office. And, um, then the second year I was working with the National

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Science Foundation, um, their. Um. I just forgot the name. Um. It's a council that kind of, like, inspects an inspector general.

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There it is. The inspector general office over at NSF. So. Yeah.

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Awesome. And would you say, um, like, generally being a part of the program? Um, I know I've talked to a few people about the, the various

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cohorts and things, um, I guess outside of your office, what was that experience like? Um, collaborating with other people that were a part of the program, um, creating those partnerships.

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The program did a really great job at making sure we were aware of other, other programs that were in DC because there were about three other programs. Um, so there was the Udall Foundation and the.

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No. I think the native, um, policy and political leadership program over at GW. Um, so we always, um, socially hung out with everybody.

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So, um, it was nice to kind of have that type of, like, camaraderie. And one of the people that I met back in 2007, like later on, I, her and I became coworkers at a non profit organization.

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So, um, it was kind of nice to have those connections. Cool. That's awesome. Um, and in terms of your day to day, did that vary depending on, I

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guess, your, you know, a couple of experiences. So did that vary depending on where you were working? Yeah, yeah, it really did vary. Um, I feel like I always got a

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really good I was always like part of planning processes for like bigger projects. So, um, like when I was at the FCC, I did a lot of planning for the white House interagency Group.

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So just making sure that, um, my boss was aware of, like, what was going on at other agencies, but also, um, attending some of those meetings on her behalf just to, like, get her up to speed on what's going on everywhere else.

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And then, um, when I was at the National Science Foundation, yeah, NSF, I helped out with all of the investigations. Um, so internal investigations and

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some audits, um, in that office as well. Uh, so that was actually pretty cool to see, too. Okay, cool. Um, yeah.

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If you want to, uh, speak to a little bit about, um, how participating in the program influenced your professional or personal path, you can speak to either or both. Um, so I think the first year, um, I was a political science major in

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undergrad, so it was nice to kind of see like government in action. And then also the program did a really great job at making sure that we got credit not only for our internship programs, but also for um, uh, federal Indian policy class that we took.

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Um, so it was really helpful to kind of take that along with having like the practical, um, working styles. But I think a lot of us, when we went to that class, we're able to kind of connect the two.

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And I think we we all kind of realized, like the importance of all of us being in these different positions, but it definitely, like really made me reflect, um, after the first year of going back to school, of looking at like, how

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does federal Indian policy fit into like the overall umbrella of politics? Um, and that type of research is what I started to do at my undergrad for like my end of the year senior research project later on.

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Um, so it did influence a lot of that thinking. But, um, even when I became in the workforce, it like my first kind of jobs out of, um, school weren't necessarily related to tribes. Um, but then I eventually found my way to a nonprofit that did a

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little bit of both policy and law, and that really, like, was more of a fit for me, or I felt like it was more of a fit. Okay, cool. And then, uh, could you walk me

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through, in terms of your professional path, um, how you got, I guess, you know, what were those steps from getting from, like, um, being in a space that was maybe not so, um, focused to tribes and then to now reaching, uh, where you are today.

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Um, so, uh, I think all the background information that I or background experience that I had from those internships when I did get a job at the nonprofit really helped me because they did a lot of work with grants.

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And so I was able to kind of like see a different part of government that I didn't experience when I was an intern. So we worked a lot on grants with

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Department of Justice. And in some of that work is where I saw the the law and policy like kind of connection. Um, and then I eventually went back to school to get my master's.

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Um, and I ended up going back to AU because, um, of the experiences I had there and also knowing that they had a really great, um, public administration and policy program, um, and they were also the back then they were the one of the few that offered a virtual,

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um, I was in the middle of my career at that, um, organization. So I didn't exactly want to pick up and move to DC. Um, so the fact that it was virtual back then, this was back in like 2015, um, it was not something that was normal.

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But, um, they also did a lot of, um, focus on your work experience rather than, like, your, um, And like I forget which one you use for grad school, but I'm not very good at like, test like, especially standardized tests.

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And, um, the fact that this program was specifically made for people that are still working was really helpful. And I also couldn't really figure

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out if I wanted to do public administration or policy. And that was a program that had both. Um, so I felt like it was like a win win for me. Um, to go come back to AU.

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Oh, um, and also just because I learned so much when I was in undergrad, I knew that I was going to be like, a really good choice. Cool.

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Yeah. Um, awesome. It's so interesting to hear, like, how people, you know, how they're the different career trajectories.

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Um, so I appreciate you sharing. Yeah, I would be curious. So in a hypothetical world, um, obviously I can't make any promises, but.

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And I'm sure you've talked to, um, Doctor Taylor about this some. But if there was programming similar to WINS, um, or completely different from WINS, but still had this, um, focus on native students.

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Do you have any ideas of what it could look like? Um, I think it would be really helpful to have something like a long term. I know that this, this summer programming is, is kind of more,

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um, ideal, but it's nice to have interns both in the fall and spring semester. Um, because now that I'm also working in the government, it's nice to have those fall and spring

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interns come in, because I feel like they get a little bit more. They get a different type of work, um, that we get depending on where you're at. So like when I was in Congress, it

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was like the spring interns always got what appropriations season was like. And then also, now that I'm on the other side of the government, um, on the executive side, it's more

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like the fall students will get more of like what appropriations looks like the end of the year. So you learn different things, um, in the fall and spring.

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And I think this summer, although it's great to have, um, because you do get a lot of interns coming into the city. Um, it'd be really great to have

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something year round. Um, and also something where, um, a lot of our students can get that real world experience. Great Um, do you know of any similar programs currently that

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are operating either in DC or elsewhere that you're like, oh, that that was a that's good work that, you know, could be emulated in other spaces. Um, I think the only one we have

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now is just the Udall Foundation. Um, and they're only in this summertime. They're trying to make the push to

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go to spring and fall. Um, but they haven't, um, they haven't really quite gotten there yet. Okay.

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Um, yeah, that's good to know. Um, and then. Okay, I have, uh, one more like, specific question and then we'll kind of broaden it once more

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before, um, I, I know you're busy and have to go. So, um, do you have any interest in being engaged with alumni? I mentioned that, like, you know, one potential outcome could be the alumni magazine.

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Um, but say, you know, in the meantime, while we're figuring out what exactly is feasible in terms of like, future work in this space, um, with AU alumni more generally, are you interested in being engaged?

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Do you have any ideas about what that could look like? Are you already engaged? Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm not as engaged

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as I would like to be. Um, it'd be nice to be a little bit more engaged. Uh, I think I would attend, like,

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a women's group, uh, engagement, alumni engagement, um, this past spring. Um, but, yeah, there are other ways I would want to be engaged.

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Okay, cool. Um, another, like one small, uh, we had a conversation when we were discussing these interviews, and something we talked about was potentially doing, like, a roundtable or a workshop, um, in

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the fall. And so, um, if participants are interested in, in engaging, we would certainly, um, follow up and see if there are ways we can bridge the gap.

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Um, yeah. Yeah, that'd be great. Cool. Um, so I guess, uh, just more

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generally kind of like wrapping up in the last ten minutes here. Um, when you think about WINS and you're, you know, giving, you're telling people about it. What do you think is the most

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important thing for us to know? And is there anything that, you know, we didn't ask that you think is important to share and for us to consider, um, as we move forward with these interviews? Um, I think that the most important thing I will say, um, is

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that that, um, experience really helped define a lot of us and a lot of the work that we're doing. Um, I kind of say that more in like a group form, because a lot of the people that I did know in

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WINS or got to know when we were that young are now are all over in different spaces throughout, um, federal Indian law and like, even like policy work. And so, um, like in this position,

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um, the white House initiative for Native Americans and Tribal Colleges and universities. It's very education based. And the board chair for the National Indian Education

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Association, we both did WINS together. So like we have a picture of us when we were like that young from like 2008, where we went to like a museum together and ended up taking a picture outside of it.

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And so like there's things like that where I can point to where I've had a lot of these connections over the years. Um, and even like other of some

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other of my friends who are now partners at law firms or CEOs of nonprofits like these are all people that I now work with. Um, and I think that the fact that we were able to kind of grow up together has been something that's, um, not replicated

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anywhere else. Um, and also just the fact that we're all kind of there to support each other is also something that's very different, um, than any of the other programs that I

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was in. Well, yeah, that's been something that I think I've noticed is certainly shared across, um, participants that we've been able to talk to is like, um, the

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relationships are a huge part. Like obviously the career exposure has a massive impact. But, um, similarly, like the

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connections and the relationships you build seem to be, um, a shared thing that everyone seems to appreciate. So, um, so cool to hear you talk a bit more about that. Um, I know, so, uh, Doctor Taylor shared some contacts that you

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shared with her to reach out to which we have reached out to. So thank you so much. Um, if there's anyone else that you think we should talk to, um, if anyone comes to mind, that

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would certainly be helpful. Um, we want to try and get as many of these interviews, um, in the books as possible so we can push this along.

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So, um. Yeah, if you think of anyone else, that'd be really helpful. Um, and we'll, we'll certainly continue these conversations. Yeah.

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And I think, um, the person I just mentioned, I think. I don't think I added her on that email or that list that I sent so I can add her.

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And I think one other person that I know of, who also works in the education space that I know are former WINS people, at least from the couple years that I was there. Okay.

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Yeah, that would be awesome. Um, and then like I said, you know, we'll keep in touch. Certainly as this like, develops,

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um, if a workshop comes out of it, we'll let you all know if oral history interviews will be released. We'll certainly share those with you all ahead of time. Um, and if you have any questions about, you know, the project, the

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process, in the meantime, obviously feel free to reach out. Um, we're happy to answer any other questions. Um, but that is all I had for you. So unless you have anything else,

00:14:39.040 - 00:14:42.520

um. I greatly appreciate your time and your insights. This has been really helpful.

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Yeah. Any way I can help? Awesome. Thank you so much.

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And I will, um, I'll follow up about those additional contacts, but otherwise, if you have questions for me, feel free to shoot me a message. Okay?

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Will do. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks.

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Bye.