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Hi, Today is October oopps it's not October. It's November. Today is November 22nd 2021. We're currently on a, Theirstory platform. And would you like to introduce yourself? Hello, everyone. My name is Odessa Blythe. Happy to be here. Thank you, Odessa. Thank you so much for being here with us today, or with me today since it's the two of us. So just so wer're transparent, do I have permission to record this this interview?

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Yes, you do. Awesome! Thank you so much. So we're going to start with some micro stuff about yourself. And then we're going to move to the wider macro information. So Odessa, how would you describe yourself and your different identities? Hmm. Well, I am a black woman. I reside in Florida.

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Yes. Okay. (interviewer also from Florida so nodded and smiled) I am a lover of Jesus Christ. You know, I'm a Child of God. I'm a daughter. I'm a fiancé. I'm a business owner. I love music. I love food. You know, I'm just working every day to fulfill my purpose and touch the lives that God has put me on this Earth to touch. So I'm happy that I'm here. Just to give you a little piece of whatever you need on your journey. So yeah. First of all, beautiful answer and I and I do appreciate you once again helping me out for this. So, how would you describe your upbringing?

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Okay, um, I would say my upbringing as a lot of people can be challenging, especially if you grew up in the black community, you know, single parent household growing up. So I was born in New York, Manhattan, New York. I'm the youngest of four siblings. My parents were married for about twelve years. So I grew up in a two-parent household, initially. They ended up divorcing when I was about 7, and then that's when the moving started, I did a lot of moving as a young child. So from New York, I moved to San Diego where my father was from. I lived in San Diego for three or four years. And then I lived in Ocala, which is like Central Florida area where my mom is from. I went to middle school and high school there. And then after that, I came to Miami Florida, where I started my bachelor's degree, my masters and I just started working and I've been here ever since.

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So, you know, my siblings and I grow up really close. My family we grow really close, but there was, you know, I dealt with my mother was on drugs, subsistence abuse and in turn because of the substance abuse, there was some neglect , you know, it was rough. My brothers and I, we really helped each other survive and, you know, by the grace of God, we were never separated or ever put in foster care, but there were very close calls. So, you know. I just had to learn to grow up early and be vigilant a lot and protect myself. And I think that has those experiences have kind of formed the adult that I am today, you know, sometimes the wall can be up. I can be guarded because you don't know what people's intentions are and through self-healing and therapy. I'm all about self development and personal development. And it's like, you know, as a child, you're not in control of your environment and your circumstances, but then once you grow up as an adult, I believe that it is your responsibility to create the life you want.

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And, you know, every depending on, you know, some people get a head start, some people are starting from a deficit but still it is your responsibility to become the person you want and create the life you want. So that's just the journey. I've been on these last few years. I'm 32 now. So, you know, I've been on my healing Journey for a while, just trying to figure out my identity and you know who I am and what I want and self-love, you know, because when you grow up with absent parents and you don't get a lot of validation. You question yourself, and you question who you are, and if you're loved, and if you're worthy. So, you know, I dealt with those things growing up and now I'm like in a better place. Like I know who I am. I'm God's child. You know, I am I'm the one! You know, so that's why that's the energy I'm on. And that's why I like other women around me to feel that way too. That's what I'm all about.

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So and even I know we'll get there with the hair. Like trying to figure out your identity as a black woman in your hair is a whole 'nother thing. So, you know, I'll let you get to that. But yeah, it has been a roller coaster. But now, you know, I'm in a good place and just creating a life I want. I'm engaged have a fiancé that I love and we're getting married next year. So I have a lot of great things to look forward to and to be grateful for. Yeah, I'm glad your journey is on. It's like, you know, you having this like self-fulfilling journey and you're like going through this. Well not that you went through this, which that's your, like, what through the process of the healing cause that always the hard part. Every day. Never ends. It never ends.

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Yeah, I've been there. So I do want to touch you did touch on a little bit that what drives you is that you're trying to create like self-fulfillment in yourself and you want to see self-fulfillment in others. Yeah, are there any particular people in your life or maybe, People you see around you that inspire you and help you during this journey? Well there has been a lot of people, you know that have come into my life. Like I'll start with my fiancé, we've been together for seven years. So we have grown a lot together and being with him has really been a mirror to show me like the things that I'm not doing right or the things I'm doing wrong. Like for example when I got with him, I did not understand the concept of boundaries and he really explained it and help me to see it. Like, as far as family members not having boundaries with family members and not having boundaries with friends and he was like, Hey, I love you. I don't think you deserve this. Like do you see?

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And I'm like, I don't even see what you're talking about. What are you mean? So just opening my eyes to my value in my worth like, you know, that's a prime example. Then my older brother. We're on the healing journey together, like we check in with each other all the time, you know, we meditate together. We work out together. We're always trying to push each other, to be the best version, you know. So people like that. And then I have like, you know, a part of the healing journey is physical Mastery, exercise. Like I've been working out every day, my trainer she has become more than my trainer like she's become a mentor and a friend.

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So, you know, just women that I meet on my journey. Like I found a church family and there's different women in the church that have poured into me. So just putting myself out there. And like what you really have to do, you have to put yourself out there to attract what you want and that's what I've been doing.

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So there's a lot of positive people in my life from, from the positive family members, and then just friends that are helping me along the way, have been very helpful. So, It's combination. I can't just say one person. And my mother, my mother as well to she's been encouraging even through our our tribulations like God has helped us to mend our bond and mend our relationship, you know, so I see like you, you know, no matter what that's still my mom. She'll take a bullet for me. The love is unconditional. So, you know, I just look at the positive and I'm grateful for all those things. That's beautiful. You seem like a very go-getter type of woman like you're always on your grind. What do you do in your spare time to unwind and relax?

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That's a great question. Do you relax [laughter] ? I'm like God, it's probably going to sound boring. Like honestly my idea of relax is to be on YouTube for hours. Like I love watching YouTube videos. Yeah. I love watching, you know, just random videos that are going to educate me. I love that.

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And then I do have a little guilty. Pleasure I will watch a little reality shows when I just want to just not think you know! Like it's like it's good sometimes just when you've done a lot that's my reward to just not have to think and just be entertained by this foolishness is for this hour and go about my life. But also traveling is something that really fulfills me. Like, when I get the opportunity to travel and take some time off, I do because it really helps me with my perspective on life. Like when you go, somewhere else and see how other people are living in the conditions that they live in and how happy they are, how they don't complain about the things like our first world problems, you know, like it helps me. It really helps me open my eyes and it motivates me and inspires me, helps me dream again, you know when I travel and get outside in my environment.

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What's the place you've enjoyed traveling to the most? Mmm. Wow. Probably enjoyed the most would be Jamaica. Jamaica and Puerto Rico. Those are like my two favorite. Like I had the most fun in Puerto Rico, but Jamaica was, like, culturally and the food and everything beautiful. Like, that's where I'm getting married. Like our wedding is in Jamaica. That's how much I loved it. But I would say the place that really like changed helped change my perspective . Was a few years ago, I went to Belize.

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Everywhere that I went. Kids were working there like and they did not complain. Like, I remember, we had a spa day and a 13 year old girl gave me the massage of my life, like, literally put me to sleep and I had to look her, like, How old are you working? And she's like, I'm 13, and it was nothing for her everyday life, just working and trying to provide provide for her family. Like, you know, the resources they have, are so minimal. They don't even have a lot of them, don't even have cars. They drive in go-karts in the street like with their babies in their laps. So just to see how happy they were with what they the little bit they had like it really helped me to put things into perspective and you know, help me to get outside of myself and not complaining me more grateful for what I have. So those would be my top three places. Places that are also on my travel list. Yes, girl go.

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So I'm going to circle back a bit and kind of combine your childhood with hair. So, do you remember your first time getting your hair done? Oh my God. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was it was a horrible experience actually because my mother does not God bless her soul. She does not know the first thing about doing hair. Okay. And thank you God, that I have the gift because and to take it back a little bit further. My grandmother was a hair stylist. So I got the gift from her. You know, she had her own shop in Ocala, Florida. She had a shop on the porch, and she would do everyone's hair in the neighborhood, and that's what she did her whole life.

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So, got the gift from her, I naturally and growing up like I just remember always being in a Barbie doll's head, like always doing the Barbie doll's hair. I don't care who was over cousins. I was in my own corner, doing hair, doing hair, and my mom would always buy me dolls, and then, of course, I would practice on myself and my mom would try to do my hair and I would hate it. I just remember being so particular about how I wanted my hair and she could not give me the look like she did not understand the assignment at all. [laughter] I hated it. [laughter] And she would be so frustrated because she liked this little girl Don't, let's put these pigtails and let's go. So, it was a struggle for us until the point she started letting me do my own hair. So I would do my own ponytails for school, and I was just experiment. And so my first time really doing my hair was, was tough until I started doing my own hair.

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So I was a kid in elementary school, doing my own hair, and put them on barrettes and all of that every day. So and then my grandmother, I remember my first time getting like a hot comb because she did the straightening comb. And she will press my hand. I have to hold the ear. Yes, and because (cross-talk) Girl ,Yes. So I remember those those days, like, and then I couldn't go outside and play, she didn't want me to get my hair all messed up. So, you know, all my good. It just makes me think like... Black women from childhood have been like hair has been our identity. Really!

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Because it's like I was a kid not being able to go outside and play because I just got my hair pressed. So, I couldn't even be, you know, be myself. So wow, they're really makes me think about that. So yeah, it wasn't it. I don't remember my first hair experience being a positive one because my mom didn't know what she was doing. I think we've I've also been there. You know, my mom was not blessed with the hair gift. Yeah. I am sensitive when it comes to combs Yes, and when you're tender-headed. Oh, my gosh.

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So, you are now from your Instagram and just from reviews. I've gotten from my sister herself that you are a very skilled braider. So I Want to hear about how you, how you got to the point in which you, you know, you're starting your own business in the middle of a pandemic. Like how, how did you get here girl, nothing, but God everything. I'm sorry, you know, I asked me a question. God is going to be in the answer. But yeah, and it's so crazy. I started my business right before the pandemic hit. So as I was saying earlier, I went to FIU, I got my Master's Degree in Social Work like I've Always known like I wanted to help people and save the world and you know, I was always the one giving my friends advice and always the one breaking up fights and always the one having to make sense out of everything. So it just naturally was like, okay, I like to help people. I like to talk to people when counsel people. So let me do this and social work gave me like the diversity to try different Avenues as well. But with that being said, it is also a difficult field to me in like you really Have to care and it can't be about the money. And I just really got to a point where I was struggling, like I was struggling personally, intern struggling professionally. I was doing therapy with kids and teenagers and adults, you know, was fulfilling especially with the kids like because they just look forward to me, coming and having that refuge and having that person on their side, but that's around the time, where I lost my father and my father passed away. Way. And I was just dealing with a lot of family things and depression, really hit me. And I you know what? I still had to go hear other people's problems and I wasn't even dealing with my own, so it got so trying. So I was just like I can't like I don't care if I make $100 a day. Like I am. I drew, I've always throughout my life. I've done here like my hair, my own hair always my friends. Always my family and this is something I would do for free now. Looked at doing hair as a career never. So hair was just something I enjoy doing. And some people look at me. Like are, you did all those braids for free and I wouldn't think anything of it. So I'm like, okay, why do I have a few clients or few people that I still do their hair and they pay me. So I'll just work off of that. And I just took the wrist and was like, listen. I'm putting my two weeks in. I'm not happy. And maybe six months later is when the pandemic hit and I was already, you know, I did my own hair to do my own hair and just Advertise it and then that's what really had people questioning and inquiring a lot. It really I don't know, man. I don't know girl. It's really just God. Like I did not go above and beyond for this business to be as successful as it is. Now. It's like, okay. I have the business now. It's like, okay, you need to implement other things and scale the business. But as far as attracting people to me, it was very easy, very, very easy, like it was supposed to happen. So I'm so grateful for that because it's been almost three years since I've been working for myself, just doing hair. So the talent speaks for itself. Yeah. Also, Sorry, I'm sorry about the loss of your father. Thank you. Thank you. So, how would you describe your client top? Like, oh my God, beautiful amazing, like dream clientele. Okay, like literally and and at the beginning, it was hard because like I said, I did this for free. So it was hard for me to like, give a price. I feel so uncomfortable, you know, and then some women be like going to charge more. This is not enough like I Our clients like that that they weren't like, oh, she only charging a hundred dollars. It was like, no, I'm giving you 150 cuz you're worth that and you need next time. You need to charge me 200. Like that's the type of clients. I have like those. They pour into me as well like and it's just so crazy. How I was able to tie in my career with this with this career because people sat in my chair and they told me, you know, everything that was on their head and their heart and told me their deepest and darkest secrets and we're able to cry and You know, so and I still have those experiences. So like I know what I've been through in the years of training, I went through, it just really prepared me, you know, as far as customer service and just being empathetic and being able to make a woman feel comfortable in my chair. Like these are amazing women like from all areas of life, doing amazing, career things. Amazing Mother's like, you know, it blows my mind, beautiful. Like I've become friends with a lot of my clients and I've never expected that, but I'm just so blessed. Like, I have amazing clients. Like, they never never challenge, you know, anything that I that I tell them our ass like they always tip like it's, I've had, I can think of maybe at a three years one or two questionable experiences, you know, where it's like a little weird, but my people so but no, I've been so blessed, like

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That's good to hear. I'm glad to hear that. So before you officially opened up your your your business. Did you have any experience with official cosmetology school or was this just like know everything that I know is self-taught. I did get my breading license, but I haven't gone to cosmetology cosmetology school. I thought about it at a high school because I was like, well, you know, I do here maybe. Like I never I didn't think of writing as a hurry. I'm like, I'm going to college and do what everybody else did. So I haven't gone to cosmetology school, but I do have my Brady license but everything that I know is just self taught. Yeah. Yeah, that's truly amazing because I me, I mean you both know rating is not for everybody. It's not and every black girl, you know, a lot of black girls are ashamed when they can't breathe because people think, are you black? You should know how to do hair and it's like no, no, Not all black girls know how to sew. Yeah, so to have that gift is so helpful.

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So if I were to sit in your chair, what would the experience be like like, what's what do you breathe? We will be best friends by the time you left. Okay, fear, you would love me. Like I'm funny. I make you laugh. I have snacks. I feed you. Like I'm telling you women come and tell me their business. Like I know that you cheated on your husband. I know how you like all this people women really trust me with deep dark information that I trust and hold dear to my heart. Like this is real. I do not take this for a game. Like I take my clients very seriously and I love each and every one of them and we have a great time. Like we have a great time. Yeah, it's here because I had we've all been in chairs before and it's always so it's kind of good to get that Vibe of like you really connect with You're the person standing there doing your hair and taking care of you. It's more than just hair. It's more than just hair over here. Yeah,

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beautiful. I lost my eye was my question. What is one thing you wish people knew about your like profession that would change their mind or their perspective about what you do. Mmm. It's a lot of work. I mean, you know, just because it comes natural and it's something that we do all the time. It is a lot of work like hair, braiders, natural, hair stylist. We're on our feet, 12 to 16 hours a day like and that's what was the big shock for me. When I first started doing it. I never did here, full-time, and I didn't think I could do it. Like my body one in the shop. Like my, I remember one day not being able to walk because my back was hurting so bad or my hands cramping up. And, you know, somebody had to adjust. To do I'm at every day. So, you know some there are people and that's why I say I have dream clients because I know other writers that struggle with getting the money, they think their work, or they feel like they were because clients are like, it's just raised like you charge a 300 just breathe, but you'll go pay for 500 off for a week. The last a week or two. So it's like they kind of minimize. We're like at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to hair stylist. It's like, you know, the wigmaker's are at the top and then the stylist at the in the middle and upper 80s. At the bottom, that is crazy to me because it takes a lot of work and dedication and patience to get a full head of braids twist, whatever, you know, a style that takes more than four hours six hours like it's work. So I think, yeah, they should just kind of Honor that that it takes a lot of time and it does take a lot of work to do on a consistent basis. How do you care for your body after, you know, being on your feet for like 12 hours when given time? So I have put aside in my budget that I get regular massages hand and foot massages before body massages, I go to the chiropractor at least, once a week exercise, like, even it was hard. I'm like, how am I going to exercise after all of this? So I've made it like, I have made my schedule to where I can wake up in the morning exercise. I don't start my day to like 11:00. No earlier than 11:00. Like I could I give my mornings to myself. So that's when I work out, you know. No, I meditate, I pray, whatever I need to do and then eating them. Nothing graters. We don't take lunch breaks, like we keep going, we don't eat. So I boundaries I had to learn like boundaries, like she's not going to be mad just because you need to take a 15 minute break to eat. Like you don't want to pass out. So just being more conscious of the self care throughout the day. Has really helped me sustain myself, but yeah, definitely massages and Chiropractic visits and just the whole self care thing is important.

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Make sense. Yeah, I've uh, I've been there many hand. Cramp. Yes. Did you do? Do you have any advice that you would offer to someone entering the industry? Apparently, I don't compare yourself to other people, especially on social media because you're looking at highlight reels and filter photos and compare yourself to people that have been doing it for 10, 15, 20 years. Like, and I had to see, like, I came out straight, just out of nowhere. And these women got salons, and they got products, and they got, and it's like, well, you'll get there, you'll get there. And I'm the time. I ask you, like, what did you do to get to that? Like I do. I'm not going to hate on Yama. Congratulate you and ask, you know, what do I have to do to get to where you are? So I'll just say we have patience with yourself. Always try to educate yourself because, you know, the industry changes quickly and often so taking Classes. I'm all about taking classes and seminars and re-educating, yourself and learning the new trends, and I would say investing in yourself, is key. Like, don't be cheap with yourself. If you see something a class that you want to take in as $500 and you know, you've done your research is worth it, do it because you're gonna is many heads. As many people that your book from from learning that skill. You will get the money back tenfold. So that's what I've learned. Like, don't be afraid to invest in yourself. You've mentioned before that, you know, you've thought of like, you know, your clients essentially came to you because you've been doing hair for like, for free for so long and your clients kind of came to your theirselves and talk of likes. Killing up your business. How would you describe your experience of have being a braider? But an at-home greater essentially without a brick-and-mortar? Um, Initially, it was great. Like now that I'm four years in, I am to the point. I'm like, okay, I'm ready for something different, you know, it is time to scale, scale the business, you know, sometimes I do have that fair of, you know, people know where I live and you know people have my address and you just don't you never know. So I mean, it could be great. Of course, it saves you a lot of money on overhead and you know, you're more comfortable, you know, I feel Sometimes people are more comfortable because I like okay. She's in out her home. There's not a whole bunch of other women because you know, some women that know for example, suffer from alopecia and they take off their scarf and, you know, they have a lot of bald spots and they feel more comfortable because it's just me and her and they're not in the salon. So there are pros and cons like their pros and cons starting out. It's great. You know, I can have my own business. I'm in control, but I think eventually, you know, you want to Branch out and scale out. But, you know, either way Like some people add on to their house and add a shop right onto the house like, and it's beautiful. So yeah, whatever works for you and your lifestyle.

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So, like your grandma's porch but really has, yes. Yes. Yes. Sorry, so I know you did start right like only a couple months before the pandemic started. So there's not too much to compare two, but how would you compare your the pre-pandemic? Like the pre-pandemic like hair braiding like to post? Pandemic Hair Braiding? Or would you say they're like rose, who is same? I mean, honestly, yeah, nothing really changed for me. I mean, besides, you know, I did naturally take like a month or so off because it was so crazy. Nobody knew what was going on. Was like I don't want nobody anybody in the house, but honestly, it's so crazy. My life really didn't change much. Like I was booked in busy before and I've been booked and busy after like honestly people are, women are getting their hair done, even more like black women. That's one thing we as actually was Some research on like black hair and I found that black women. Spend nine times more on the hair than any other race. So with that being said like women are getting their hair done before their bills are paid sometimes like that's how serious it is. So, you know, it's not an issue for me. Like there's always I want somebody that wants their hair done. So yeah, there hasn't been much of a difference honestly.

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So would you say that financially you've been able to not only sustain yourself but to thrive like yeah. Glad to hear. Business is booming. Glad to hear your voice. Yes. So to get into the more of that, what does hair mean to you? Specifically, what would you describe your hair philosophy as Okay. Really as a black woman? Honestly, there is, there is like it's tough. It can be difficult. But there are such a beauty and being a black woman with our hair because we choose how we get to show up in the world. Literally, like, we can straighten it, we can dye it blonde. We can throw a wig curly wig on or we can just rock in his Natural State and that really shocks everybody like wow. So, you know, we really we choose how we want to show up and You know, sometimes we show up based on our audience. So it's like, for example, I'm in a sorority. I'm an AKA and The Stereotype for akas is, you know, Percy and prim and proper. So, you know, if I adhere to those stereotypes are probably will show up with long straight hair and you know, not want to do too much but it's like, no, I want to wear my Afro and being part and represent my ancestors. Like, that's what I want to do. So Last week behind black hairs just do, what makes you feel good. Like it is a thing ligate. It really is a thing because it's like, how, how? Let me ask you a question. How do you feel when your hair is not doing? Oh, she's turning a question on the interviewer. I'm honestly, I do feel kind of embarrassed walking out. I'm like, oh, wow, like because I don't even know who I'm comparing myself to at some point, but I just feel unkempt in a whale and I'm like, so. Okay. So your hair. It really determines your mood and you know how you feel about yourself and you know, how the world sees you. So and it's so crazy. Even like there's times I try to embrace all embrace my natural hair and wear it.

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I have family members say well, when you get your hair done, it's like yeah, like this grew out of my head. Like this is my hair is done. So and it's like if you don't know who you are, you can conform to whatever the world wants. You to see you as because it makes them uncomfortable. So that's what I had to learn. Like do what makes you feel comfortable? Like not whatever. They deem is professional or whatever. They deem is beautiful. The beauty standards. Like it's whatever makes you Comfortable in that comes with time and experience, definitely. But You know. When would you say you realized hair mattered so deeply to you? Was it sort of a conscious moment or was this always like something you've known? Like internally, like from the beginning, probably internally from the beginning, just going out into the world and see how the world receives you the messages that we see, like the beauty standards are eurocentric beauty standards, you know, growing up straight hair. Everybody want to straight hair. That's why we got perms and can you see me? Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's why, you know, everybody wanted a perm and they wanted their hair. I have that phase where I was just like, I want my hair to be straight. I'm sick of it, balling up, and shrinking up. And, you know, because I thought that was the right way, but then in turn, I damage my hair, trying to keep up with what a beauty standard. So what's the gives? Repeat the question again. Some interference?

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Oh, essentially. I wanted I wanted to know. Like, when did you realize it matter to you? Whether yeah, it's kind of it was really subconscious. Like like I said you go outside and you see how the board real receives you or you look at, you know, your friends that aren't black. You see how their hair they can get up and go why is my hair doesn't? Do? Why doesn't my hair do that? Why can't I just get up and go? So I think from a childhood, you realize, like, okay, you're different. You know, you have to use products. You have to do other things to tame your hair, you know, just how your mom or your grandmother talks about hair, you know, so is instilled in you without you even knowing just from the world and the stereotypes in the world. No problem. Yes, thank you for answering. My question. I was a awesome answer. So, our hair has been. Red, white, yellow, broken up. I can barely see you. Are we going?

00:34:05.900 - 00:36:55.700

Okay, awesome. So our hair has been banned regulated litigated. Take it to Congress scorm. Wow. So the question is, how can something seeming so seemingly mundane be so disruptive. Wow. Wow. Wow, what a question. Wow, that is so like just to think about that. And you know and you hear people say well it's just hair and it's like no it's not like culturally like our ancestors used to braid, use braids as a path for Freedom. Like they used to use brace to hide food and rice grains this to feed their children and you're telling me that I can't honor my culture and wear my hair the way I want to. I'm threatening you. The Audacity Of America. It's how I feel. It's the audacity. I I just I can't even fathom that like, they have really had patrolled our identity. It's amazing. Like, it's beautiful to see, like, things are getting better. Like, you know, rules are being passed laws are being passed and, you know, but wow, just to think about that. Like, how dare you even to think about you? Would, you would you would you wear your natural hair on an interview like to go to an interview? You would think like, oh my God. Am I going to get the job? If I wear my hair in its natural state, like the fact that you have to think about that? Yeah. It just it just shows. You that the systematic piece of it is like we have been taught to hate ourselves for a long time. That is that self-taught self-hatred. Is really, where are we accepted? If we cannot be accepted at work, we can be accepted at school. Like where can we go? Yeah. Wow. I don't even I can't even answer it. All, I mean, the only thing I can say is we just have to like love ourselves so that we're okay with how we look and how we show up, you know, with with real confidence to be like, yes. This is an afro and I love it. Oh, yes, these are braids and I'm in a room full of white people. And this is, you know, I love myself like even locks, like, calling them dreadlocks. That's what that term came from eurocentric because they're so Dreadful dreadlocks. Like, that's how her hair is. Wrong, so the fact that it's been policed and it really shows our power was so powerful that you got to create laws to stop us from being ourselves. Like we got the magic. We do one. We are the one. Okay? Black women are the one black

00:36:55.700 - 00:38:46.300

people. Let's do that. One was kind of a very like oof crash. Yeah, cause I just made me feel away. Hearing you say that it kind of triggered me a little bit. Wow, so like maybe to like break. Let me to like bring it down event. What is your favorite type of braid? Like, what's your favorite type of brain to do or style? Specifically, or to do on clients and to do on yourself or just favorite hairstyle in general? I would say a good Breeze. Like knotless braids is a thing and love them. Like regular braids. I don't even want to do those anymore. Whoever created knowledge braised. They did that. Like those are my favorite because you know as another thing for women, we do these Styles, but sometimes they don't protect our hair because they're not installed correctly. So that's when the hair of the breakage comes in and, you know, just the manipulation. So it's not protecting your hair. So not let's What I love about those is they're lightweight, you know, you can put your hair right in a ponytail after the braids are in and you know, normally you get your braids done. You got to wait at least a week, and you gotta sleep a certain way. And yeah, so, you know the pain like that, we go through in another style that I do is called Spring twist, which is like my most popular style. So I love doing that style, especially on my natural hair girls because it lasts, you know, we as natural hair, we like styles of the easy things that things I wouldn't have to do everyday and this style can last you like three, four months and you get up and go. So it's just like so easy. It's so lightweight. So work your time worth your money, you know, so just I love protective style that you can just get up and go and you can the older, it gets the better, it looks things like that. So that's what I like.

00:38:48.100 - 00:39:55.900

I do like me some good spring twist. But I can only personal, I can only braid, like, I guess regular box braids on myself. Okay? House, I was doing things at all, but try this styling or until he's, I'm trying to stop and now I met because of you no more responsibility and maybe because I'm doing other people's hair more often. I'm not really a big fan of doing my own hair. So just saying that, you know, and what's your favorite type of style for your for yourself again? Because I don't like doing my own hair. I mean, it's going to list. I would say I work. Spring twist, more than anything. I wanted 13 times a year. Yeah.

00:39:57.900 - 00:42:45.300

So we're going to now. We're going to go back to them hard-hitting questions again. Okay, it's clear. There is some there is out-group. Interference in the way. Our hair is viewed and treated. How would you say you've seen that? Internalized in the in groups, like within like the community and within people in your chair, in terms of like the comments, they make about their own hair, the comments, they make about other people's hair. Oh my gosh, just even the example I gave you with me, going to my family's home with my natural hair and they're like, so when you gonna get your hair done and it's like, I thought my hair was done, you know, so we subconsciously teach each other to hate our hair and, you know, even women like they'll have beautiful hair. And I, you know, I just asked him about the hair Journey. Like, how do you do with your hair natural? Do you, where do you leave it up a lot and they're like, oh God. No, I would never, I would never wear my hair and it's like, but why your hair is beautiful? Like, and I was that person before, like I wouldn't I didn't want to be caught on camera with my natural hair. I didn't want to be caught in a picture with my natural hair. Like I felt like I wasn't pretty if I did wear my natural hair. I had to have a lot of jewelry on like, I had to compensate for something. So, you know, it's just Really self-taught and you have to get to that point. Like I said, of loving yourself and being okay with being the only girl in the room with afro when it's a bunch of other black girls with lace fronts because they're doing, they're, you know, they're trying to show up in a way that they, Their audience can identify with like, you know, what would you what would what do you think is needed? In general to like, get not only to get black women, or just the black community in general to this work towards those steps of like self-love and in terms of viewing their hair or acceptance around the world. Like honestly, I hate to say validation. But if we were validated more, I feel like that would help. I mean you you should get it on your own but having the validation of the world, it helps like if you Commercials with women wearing their afro. That's going to validate me to want to wear my hair natural next week or if I have ended up wearing a twist out and I'm feeling some conscious about it and I see a television show with the main characters wearing natural hair that's going to like, you see yourself. I just we need to be able to see ourselves, more see examples of ourselves somewhere other than you know, and I own circles where we judge ourselves, like if we see ourselves on the mainstream or then it would It would be accepted more in my opinion.

00:42:49.700 - 00:44:38.000

So that question is kind of reminded me of this other question that I have. So before it was almost like solely through world of mouth. I would hear about products that are good for natural black hair. Yeah, I like, you know, you'd watch on a like, you'd watch a YouTuber or like someone's someone someone would recommend something to hear. But now, I'm seeing more TV ads and More companies promoting their lines of natural hair products. Yes. How do you feel? Do you feel like this is a genuine change in? In like popular, cultures view of black hair or do you? Are you not like, essentially not buying this seeming the sudden interest in having your own natural hairline. That's a good question. I mean, because I already knew black women were the we are the ones and we are the mold and people. Yeah, like I'm gonna believe that and I know people like, for example, Issa Rae like her show is all about black women. Black Beauty and she wears natural hairstyles on her show. So it does inspire other black women to want to wear their hair like that. Now, on the other side, there are people that are just capitalizing off of it. Like we're trendy, you know natural it's trendy and they're going to have analyzed off it. But hey, I'm going to look at it as a positive and be like about time about time. Yeah. alright, sweet, so Sorry one question. You did answer this question. So I'm like, oh she's like answering my questions. Right?

00:44:41.800 - 00:46:47.200

So I'm going to circle back to do. You believe that it's necessarily necessary to actively cultivate General generational appreciation in here in the community. And do you view that as a role that you will be taking on yourself? Wow. Yes, ma'am. Amazing questions. Yes. Yes, and yes. Yes, it takes us all to inspire the next Generations and me doing hair. Like I'm already thinking about other ways that I can help women. Like, like I said, thalipeeth, women with alopecia. Like, I've dealt with a lot of women with alopecia and of course, they're very selective with who they are going to see, you know, so I want to just increase my skills so that I can help women of all spectrums when it comes to hair and as far as natural hair, like I've been looking into natural hair styling and wearing my natural hair more, just to show, like it's okay to embrace what you have and love on it and treat it because, you know, we'll throw a wig on or throw some braids on. But what is what's the maintenance underneath? So that's also important. So yeah, like I think it's only going to get better from here because I've seen some kids out here that are inspiring. I'm inspired by some kids that I see that are like I my black is beautiful. All and I know who I am. So it's like, it only takes one to, like, spark it and then other girls see it. And, you know, it just starts a whole new generation of self-love and black girls. So, I'm really hopeful for the future, and I feel like it's going to be a beautiful time. Like like you said the ads and things, hopefully, they don't just, this is not a trend and just not a moment. And it's here to stay because black people are here to stay black women are here to stay and I only see it getting better with time, honestly. Yeah, the crown act like part of, you know, the part of the crown Act was like, like heavily pushed from like youth movements of like experiences of young girls and schools and what they are really? Yes,

00:46:47.500 - 00:48:28.400

really took me to moments. Remembering interactions that I had in school, and I'm just wondering if you've also had those like similar interactions. Maybe not in your education, but like maybe during your social work years in which you were seeing those commentaries and like the professional workplace. Yeah. Yes. Oh my God. Oh my God. How'd you get your hair like that? Wow, you come with long hair when you just had a bob or something. They're like your hair grew. Oh, can I touch it? And I've had women come up to me and just grab my hair without even asking. Yes in the workplace white women, like I've experienced that. I'm a I have a bit of PTSD dealing with that like it's really a thing and you hate to have to always explain yourself, explain yourself and guard yourself, but No, cuz it's like you don't see white women or any other race, but black women get this type of treatment like, you know, so. Yeah, definitely have experienced. It definitely have because it's a bit traumatized even. I do like, I do you offer styles for young girls to like five to nine? And I'm always telling them how beautiful their hair is and you know how cute they are. And they are you just to see five year old girls already know the drill. Like okay. I know. I got to say here. All right. I know I got to take this. It's going to hurt a little bit. Okay, now, I gotta sit here for a couple out, like, young at a young age. We are. To already know like this is just what we have to do to get ourselves together and look good. So, you know, it's just a part of it and we embrace it that and keep it moving. All you can do is embrace it

00:48:29.200 - 00:50:32.100

and how would you stay? I know you've mentioned that you, you take more classes to stay on Trend with like, what's changing. But how do you feel about this, like the seeming? And you've also mentioned And that YouTube is one of the ways you relax. And there's a very specific culture related to like YouTube hairstyle like natural hair stylist and natural graders. Yeah. How do you feel? Do you feel how do you feel about essentially their contribution to like just self identity in terms of being marketed to? So many young people are being put in front of so many young people. I mean for me as a hairstylist, I think it's good because I'm a visual learner. Some able to go on there and see a video. I'm like, okay, that's okay. I'll let me know trick today and that's how it's done and be realistic with myself to know. Okay, her hair is a little bit. Her texture is different from mine. So it might not completely look like, you know, but at least I got the technique. Now, some girls that don't have in their hair and they see a one of those popular YouTubers. They just automatically expect for their hair to turn out the way it never turns out how the video is so it's like what am I doing wrong? Why does Her hair looks so good and just like she's probably did it off camera or she has like, 2, c, 3, C hair. So it's easier to manage. So it does. It does discourage girls sometimes and make them feel like what my never comes out like that. And my hair doesn't look like that. But from my perspective, it's great because it gives me information, it gives me inspiration and they get to make money doing it. So I'm not going to head on that. Like, it's beautiful. It's beautiful, Megan capitalizing off. The hair grows out of your head. Why not? Collect your bags? Yes. Long as you're being ethical in you're not you know, lying and selling that products that happens to but you know, Have you have you

00:50:32.500 - 00:51:12.200

experienced any of those bad products that you've just mentioned? One is anybody's business out there, but maybe the product itself. You can talk about the product itself. You want to talk about like hair growth. Products and a and I know people's hair is different. So some product might work for me. That doesn't work. For another inconsistency is also a thing. Well, no, I'm not. I won't say that. I haven't because like I said, I'm going to do my research before I use a product and if I'm just watching a video, just to get some inspiration, hair inspiration. I'm just going to take what I need from it in.

00:51:14.600 - 00:54:38.200

Yeah. Yep. Do you think that there? I have gotten. I mean, I'm trying to, I'm trying to rephrase this question. There has been conversations in which there seems to be an ideal way of being natural or an ideal way of caring ones hair. Hmm, kind of like, if you're going to be natural, your hair your natural hair, should be to look to your back or like it should be long. Like if it's natural as opposed to like sure. And as opposed to like a shorter way of the hair and it seems to parallel this good. This is bad hair debate. Okay, so I'm kind of just wondering your take on this, just like the seeming divided between like, oh, if your hair isn't this then it's not as good as that war. Well, that's true. Yeah, I guess I like our I can remember girls saying, like, while I'm away to my hair gets on my shoulder before I wear it out or, you know, I'm a let it grow a little more while that's true. Yeah, that think that's very destructive. That's a very destructive thing in the very destructive way of thinking because what is good here, like natural hair is natural hair. Whether it's in a pixie cut or it's an afro or some it's shaved down like it's your natural hair. So all goes back to how you want to show up in the world, you know, and your self love because if you want, if you want to wear your natural hair, but it's still short where it naturally. In a ponytail, find the right products that work for you. That is true. Wow, and if you know, different textures are more or better than the other like I'm a for see you giving for see you give it. Okay. So you aren't yes Fame for see girls. Who so you already know we're like natural natural and a lot of girls. It's hard to maintain and handle and they might look at us like, oh the audacity of her to wear her natural hair because it's not super curly. It's like, no, like, embrace yourself. Love yourself. I'm telling you, people people. Watching and they see you. And they they look at the courage that you have, but they never would have to do what they really want to do. And it's like, where are your hair? It does not matter. Like love the journey, like, of course, we all want waist-length hair. But until you get there, what are you doing in between? You just going to stop your life like find what works for you for on the products that work for you, find the style that works for you and keep it moving, right? Like yeah, it's very destructive to think that it has to be one way. Natural hair has to be one way. That's very unrealistic. Yeah, II did go through a phase myself or I was just like well if I'm going to wear my hair out, it has to look like this with a name like but now I'm like you said that you remind me of my son of my friends. I would do that. Yeah, they would be like, oh, well, I gotta be at least to my shoulders first because you ain't gonna be calling me ball headed or have to be the curl pattern has to work. That's my girl. You're never going to live your life, waiting on this false idea of how your hair is. To be this. What? It is surely

00:54:39.400 - 00:57:56.900

a lot of the conversation surrounding black hair. Always also seem to involve incidences of cultural appropriation from celebrities like a Kardashian to students attempting to imitate their favorite musicians and getting dreads or what not. Why do you feel those incident in some instances, spark the outrage that they do the fleeting outraged that they do? Do because then like from our community? Yeah, from our community mostly or just I mean because when other people do it, it's like this new revolutionary thing and it's like We've been wearing a hair like this for over 400 years, but then when someone like a Kardashian, does it? It's just sparking this new trend in this new. So it's like we never get the credit we deserve. When it's but and we don't get the credit you deserve and then we get ridiculed for it. It's like the same Braves that Kim Kardashian. Where's is unprofessional at our job and we get looked at differently. That's so funny. You said I have a family friend. I should do her hair all the time. And anytime she wanted her know. She would send me a picture in Black. Hey, can you do this style? And it never will fail. You'll be a Kardashian, every picture of an example, who your Kardashian and I wouldn't have to tell her. Okay, I can do it like this, but your hair is not going to look like this. Why? It's not going to look and she's like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, let me show an example probably look and I will show her a black girl, the same style and she'll be like, oh, okay, like literally the Kardashians their Birds, a sloppy. They're not need that. You know, it's not I don't know what it is, but it's not cute. It looks like I'm not going to emulate that. So, and I think has to do with environment because she was in LA, she grew up in LA and she was an actress and all of her friends were actresses and you know, so she wasn't really exposed to the culture. So she just thought card. Dashing was, you know, the mold of so yeah, it really, your environment plays a big part of it and was like what you're around, you know, and it's hard to be the one to stand out when everybody's wearing straight hair wigs, like, it really takes some bravery, man. It really does because I've been there, I had in my hair at one point. I hated my hair. I would never wear it and, you know, I had to really be brave and be like, okay, this is me. Now. I love my hair is still a lot of work and, you know, you just have to be patient. But when it's done and it's out, I love it. Like I'm getting my natural hair. Done this weekend. I can't wait. I'm so excited. Like I'm getting my ends trimmed. I'm gonna wash and go done all of that. I'm so excited for that. I would have never been excited two years ago for that. So I think it just takes time and just learning yourself and loving yourself and not compare yourself in. So you can look at that and be like, okay, like I know that's not my my level of beauty or my standard of beauty, but But I'm going to let them have it because you know, that's that's what they want. You can't control everything. Like you gotta know. You gotta know who you are. What was the defining moment in your hair Journey? Where you felt that? But flip with with yourself. Okay, let me see. What was it. What was it?

00:58:04.600 - 01:00:38.400

You talk about your hold hair Journey, if you want and like how I mean because okay, so growing up. Like I always had a lot of thick hair and I was natural for a long time until I was like a senior high school so I can get my first time. So, I was 18. And I was just because I was, I was playing sports. My hair is always sweaty. So I'm like, I want my hair to Flow In The Wind. I'm sick of this. So I permed it and then I dyed it on top of that. And I sir, laddering it all the time, my hair just Off completely signing up going back natural. So I was perm for maybe two years and I went back natural and I've been natural ever since. So I would say, going through that, excuse me, perm to from perm back to natural state is when I started to love my hair like and I didn't do the big chop. So I would just keep it braided up and I'll take the braids out. I will trim some of it and bring it back up and like after a year, it completely grout. So just I was excited to see the progress every time I would take it out and I Wood trim it and then I would wear it out and I just love the way I look like. I don't know, somebody that says something to me or I don't know if I'm just like this looks good on me. Like, I'm really look good, but it will just discourage me because it would only last two or three days. So I was like, oh God. Okay. What are we doing now? I mean honestly, but honestly, I'm not going to make it sound. Like I have it all together because I still struggled, like, I still have my internal struggles, but I am. I am nowhere near the place. I used to. The are like and even when I say when I talk about alopecia, like just from me learning how to do my own braids and practicing on myself. I used to pull every piece of hair and as a kid and I kind of like put my own answers out a little bit and I was very self-conscious about that. Still to this day. I'm like, okay. What am I going to do? Am I going to get a hair transplant and I'm sick of this bald spot. Like I literally have a gave myself a bald spot, but I'm even getting to the point of that where it's like girl take it and leave me like shit. Fetch me a about a stretch. Mark, these things. Like, who cares? Like you just gotta live your life. I don't know. I think it just comes with with a little bit of experience in time to help you get through that because my twin my whole twenties, I struggled. But as soon as I hit like 29 30, that's when I just started feeling more empowered and more like I don't care like you just stop. The can you stop caring? The older you get. So yeah, just comes from that just from experience in time. God, I can't wait. I can't wait till that experience or time hits. Maybe we'll get there.

01:00:40.700 - 01:05:03.400

So to jump back to your client's house. A real quickly. I actually had a question that I realized. I skipped. I wanted to hear about any interest in clientele stories of like just a client that either was super like strange in a funny type of way or like super impactful and like an emotional way that you really just like God. Feel like kind of shaped. Yeah. I have like 250 clients right now, but then busy like she said yeah, and I'm like God I've had so many different experiences. Which one could I tell? I mean, it's just interesting. It just shows what a small world. We live in because a lot of my clients we end up knowing we have a lot of mutual friends and similar friends and we're like, oh, yeah, like, you know, like, you know, nothing gossip the say like I had a friend and I was little Fee about like something's weird about her and then my client comes. It's just like our work with her Know, Her Like She's Some Things iffy about her. I'm not okay. Thank you, Mike. Okay, so I've had a lot of Revelations like that, man. I met my God. Okay. Like this one of my clients. She's younger like 24, 25, and every time she sits in my chair. She makes me cry. Like why are you doing this to me? Because she tells me her story. Her story. So profound like she was in foster care. She doesn't have both. She's lost both of her parents. It's like she's the youngest of like four siblings, but she's the most responsible, like she's finished nursing school. She's a nurse practitioner. Like she's just dust so much, and we should tell me a story. She reminds me of myself, like our childhoods are similar. And I remember when I was her age hustling, and getting my degrees and trying to figure it out. It's just like her. I just see myself in you so much and I'm like you are going to be okay, you are going to be fine. Like I've shared my therapist. With her. Like I'm always like she reminds me that it's like I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, this is my purpose, like, pouring into women that are in positions that I was in maybe five years ago and let them know. Like listen, you were going to make it like I see it. I see it on you. I see success on you. I see the power. Like and you sometimes you don't even know your power, your own power, other people have to tell you and you don't know why, some people don't like you or some people treat you differently. It's because the power that they see on you that you don't even see. Like and asked in different women, see my chair and I'm like, girl, you are so powerful. You even know how you going to change the world. Like, I'm honored to meet some of these people like one this one, girl, just the other day. I did Wendy Williams assistant her hair and I'm like, random and she's so cool. Like I meant, I met celebrities because of doing hair like in. And that helped me to see, okay. These are just regular people because I used to be fearful of celebrities and feel like, oh, they're up here. And I'm down here and we're in a Different planet, it's like know, they're working two peoples who they just figured it out, or they just got a little bit money, more money in a bank account. He's a wicked people with real people problems, you know, so it just helped me like to see my something like your big deal to like your big deal just as he's big teeth. People are too. So, you know, just that these women trust me. They trust me with a lot of heavy information like and they feel so comfortable to be able to pour it out and then they leave feeling. So great. One of my clients. I mean put a business out there, but she was dating a married, man. And every time she comes from the talk about this married man, and I'm like, girl call him right now and cut it off it. She literally cut it all issues. Like I just did she text me the other day and was like, I just wanted to text you to tell you. Thank you for giving me that push to cut this man off because I have not talked to him. Since my life has been so much better. Like you really helped me. So it's just stuff like that and I don't even know I'm doing that. I'm helping women in their intern helping me like to continue to know like you guys. Got it. You are living in your purpose. You are changing lives, even though you're not doing therapy. You still are like it's just amazing. Like we bounce off of each other like it I could go for days with experiences of you know, meaning people like it's amazing. It's amazing. Like I have no complaints, no complaints

01:05:04.500 - 01:06:05.300

like the community that like like it's quite literally, like with every braid you make your building a bond between you and this other person. Yeah, and it's it's just a beautiful to just see the way that He formulates, an informed itself and that's something that I always dreamed about, like God, bring me a community of like-minded. Women are like minded people that we can build something together and it's like are you have that? So horn into it? Because sometimes I look at myself like, you know the fear like you let that fear step in and you don't want to, you know, believe in what you got and what you're doing, but it's like you're doing amazing things. I'll have to tell myself that in my clients. Help me to remember that too. When they even like your sister. You know, offering this interview like you could have asked anybody like, and I know it's just for school. But there's you don't know what you're doing for me by doing this interview. Like we help each other. So yes amazing trust. It's definitely even been one of my favorite interviews so far. I interviewing all hairstyle

01:06:05.300 - 01:07:49.400

is so I am I am looking at, just the like I was looking at a variety of like I hairstylist hair braiders. I have an interview set up. I'm going to be setting up an interview with like hair product makers, exact sense to. So just people who I think are like quote-unquote authorities. Okay? Well, I hear because there were 140 but just with just those in general. So this has been I'm like, I've enjoyed all my interview so far. They've just been so fulfilling on like a personal and like emotional level that it is. This is amazing. Well, so I also wanted to ask you about what are some things you would like to change about the hair industry about hair braiders. I know you touched on. You felt like there was some type of hierarchy in terms of like wigmaker's stylist. And then Raiders is that the only thing you would like to change or is there something? I feel like things are changing things are changing as far as like the compensation, like braiders are charging a lot more these days and getting the compensation they deserve Which I think is great. I was like maybe more collaboration because it does tend to seem like a competition sometimes because, you know, the market is, if you want to look at it saturated, this everybody does here on every corner, you know, nobody can provide an offer. What you offer. That's always tell my clients. Like, are we taking these pictures? Don't be nervous. Can a body, do what you do? Come on, let's go. Like, that's how I talk to my clients when I like know. So it's like, yeah, nobody can really offer what you offer. So I think collaboration is Is needed more especially the black community. I would say. Yeah,

01:07:50.400 - 01:09:28.200

and what would that collaboration? Look like like a town hall type of thing, like a get your hair braided and get a wig at the same time type of event, like, oh, all of that, whatever is going to increase the business for that individual and increase the awareness of that individuals business. And, you know, as long as both parties are benefiting, like, all of that, all of that. Very creative way that the, you know, the creators want to come together and collaborate. I'm all whore. Awesome. Well, you really like knock my questions out of the park and this has been super amazing. Is there are, is there anything you want to add? Is there any questions that you feel that I've missed specifically? No, you're these are like I said, your questions have been amazing as well. Like, wow, you making me. Okay, you poking, emotion. That means you're doing something girl, have something you'll journalism skills. And all of that. I mean, you know, this is great. Just the identity of black hair like You made me think today, like it made me be more conscious of how I treat myself. Like, let's just be nicer to ourselves. Like don't look in the mirror and call yourself ugly. If your hair is not quote unquote, done. Your edges are laid or whatever. The standards are like, you know, how do you feel about the Bonnet situation

01:09:28.900 - 01:09:50.200

where black, just it. Never stays on my head at night. That's almost found. Like I try to keep it to stay but I'm like wearing them in public how women were like you should be wearing bodies in public. Oh, I mean like sometimes you just you gotta do what you gotta do. Yeah. I've never grew up outside the house, but I thought scarf on if you know, you do what you gotta

01:09:50.200 - 01:10:32.800

do. I do try to make it look cute sometimes but like sometimes sometimes if you got to hustle, you gotta hustle you guys. Yeah. I appreciate you. For involving me. This is amazing. I'm happy to see young black women. Like you keeping topics like this alive. Okay, at a pwi, baby, you are bold and brave for even doing this. So, thank you. Thank God. Bless you, and good luck and everything else you do, and I'm here, if you ever need help on anything else. I know, I'm coming back to Miami and I need to get my hair done. Well, that part's great. I am here. Yes.

01:10:33.500 - 01:11:00.900

But yes, this has been so insightful and amazing. You just really took the topic and ran with it. And so I'm so happy that you were also willing to be part of it. And that's basically it. So thank you for taking part in my recording today. This interview has been very informative and has been valuable in contributing to understanding of how hair functions in the black community. Yes. You are. Welcome very well, stopping the recording and to massage.