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Well, hi, I'm Pamela Cheryl Higgins Harris, a reporter. My name is a significant a lot of which began here at American University, by the way. Um, but I was born in 1950.

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I think that's what you also asked me. And I came to American University in 1968. Um, however, before coming to American University, I was born in New York City.

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Um, I have a lot of spiritual roots in New York City. And I also went to school in Teaneck, new Jersey, right across the George Washington Bridge.

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And in 1968, I graduated from Teaneck High School. And why did you. Decide to come to AU in the first place? All the places in the world.

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Why AU. You know, when I finished high school, it was a very unique situation and so I couldn't be sure which school was going to be the one for me.

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And I say that because I was an AFS exchange student, that means an American Field Service exchange student. And so I spent my year, my academic year as a senior in Italy.

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Well, the notion of what I would be doing in college, you know, only came into my mind in terms of the possibility of doing some work with diplomacy or human relations communications.

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Those things resonated with me, but I didn't. I didn't really know where. However, someone and I can't even tell you who spoke about the

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School of International Service and that American University could really be a good place, you know, for me to consider. Now, that did give me cause, you know, to give a nod because prior to going to my senior year as an exchange student, I had identified

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that I wanted to go to school in Washington, DC. I didn't know what school was going to be, but I did want it to be Washington, DC. And that's because I had spent

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several summers with my cousins here in DC and got to see where African American students. At that point, Negro students could be in the majority, which was very different from what I had

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experienced in my schooling. But I saw here that they could be in the majority, they could be good students, and they could be really well-rounded, socialized, they could dance.

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That was important to me. And I was like, okay, DC is a place I want to come to. But the American University notion

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really was introduced to me because of the School of International Service. And then things evolved when I came to visit with my mother and father when we were going to

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different schools, Howard University being one, I really thought I might want to go to an HBCU since I had been the token Negro for so many years in my schooling. We also visited George Washington and we came to AU.

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But when we came to this campus and it was really, really profound the way I remember this, after we spoke with the persons that interviewed us, gave us the conversation, um, my mother, father and I, we looked at one another right there on the quad,

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and there was something about the feel of that interview and the way that this campus felt that we said, this is the place. Just something about the environment, something about the unspoken message that was being given.

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And so those are the tidbits that contribute to my having wound up here, uh, as opposed to any place else. Yeah. And all that was going on in 68.

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Um, what did you find when you got on campus? What were some of your fondest memories? Well, you know, the fondest memories evolved after freshman year.

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Um, it's interesting for you to ask me that question and for me to think about how that evolved, because freshman year, I lived on the French floor, you know, which I thought was that was another that was another draw that they

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were seeming to be, you know, look into my history and say, oh, okay. You know, exchange student well, we have the French, you know, cultural floor. Let's put her there.

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Ironically, that turned out not to be such, you know, a good socialization experience for me. Um, so during freshman year, I began to have some close friendships.

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I'm looking right at one. Right, right. Right here. Um, but I also didn't have a

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chance, though, across the year to really get my footing. That would translate into a fond memory because there was so much that I had was going through internally, and the opportunities that were here that I would eventually benefit from, I

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couldn't feel yet. So at the end of freshman year, believe it or not, I really was ready to drop out. I remember having that call with my folks and saying, you know, I'm

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not sure. I mean, I've got, you know, the strong friendships. I was really beginning to feel the

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Black Student Union and the OSATAU experience. But I had it only had touched me on the surface. So when you ask me about my fondest memories, it's because of the way that I was able to stick with staying in this environment

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that we had that first impression of, and begin to feel the benefit of being a part of the organization of African and African-American students at AU. You see, all of that happened for

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me, more significantly, after that freshman year, um, my friendship, you know, with you was very, very significant to my then being able to seek those experiences on campus, like the black cultural floor, you know, that really gave me a sense of, okay, now my

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belonging that I've had in this significant friendship that I was blessed to have from the very moment I stepped on Massachusetts Avenue for camp. Let's, um, you know, there was a

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gap between that wonderful experience and my really feeling like I had fond memories. But those fond memories really started flowing after sophomore year.

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I mentioned to you having to become more, um, finding my place with the Black Student Union that was making history on this campus, but also around the country. Um, being able to build my sense

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of who I was in a way that was lagging in my freshman year and being able to connect the dots for what I had missed when I was out of the country during my senior year. Sophomore year, all of that identity, all of that sense of

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what it meant for me to be moving from that Negro awareness of being somebody that was not just a credit to their race, but was somebody that was a credit to their own race within their own community.

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That happened at American University. That was major for me. Um, the other thing that that really does, you know, stand out

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for me is the longevity that was planted in my friendship with you. As you know, um, but then built in the relationships that I had with my sisters on the black cultural floor and, and the fact that this was a place where falling in love did become a very safe place to

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have that happen, which had not been the case in my freshman year. So many things are important about when you come to the university. When you come to college, you know, what is it that you want to accomplish? Um, friendships and having the

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love of your life become major. Um, fond memories is not what you're necessarily thinking about when you come to AU All right. That first impression that I told you about, where there was that

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sense of there will be a place for you if you can just stick in there long enough to discover what those possibilities are. That is what makes you so special to me that it was a place where discovery we're moving through sense, but my sense of isolation

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into a sense of full belonging, you know, in terms of my woman sister friendships and that notion of sister really did build, um, in the, in those years and sophomore year. And then, you know, I can't hold back, you know?

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Um. You know, falling in love with the love of my life happened here at American University. And it was something that was able to grow in an organic what they would use the word organic way

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that was similar to the environment, that even in the face of what was happening in history, organic growth was something that was possible here. And that included moving through

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conflict. It included moving through uncertainty, not knowing into knowing, being unclear into having even more clarity.

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Um, the other fond memory that I want to speak about is the mentorship that was an outgrowth of the brother sisterhood. That was an outgrowth in turn of

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OSATAU And my specific example is when I was getting ready to graduate from AU As an undergrad, there were two of our mentors. Sister Brother. They happened to be a couple.

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Atiba Coppock, who was one of our founders. You've already exchanged words with him and his wife. And Senga Coppock so it was Bert Coppock, Pat Coppock, Atiba Coppock, and Senga Coppock.

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And they had just graduated from a master's program in special education. And it was an innovative program that was run by Nicholas J. Long, who happened to be the guru of the life space interview and the

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conflict cycle. Now, remember, I mentioned to you that I wasn't sure what my major would be. I know I mentioned to you that I didn't know what school I would

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come to, but nor was I sure about what my major would be. And this is coming back to the fond memory part of it. Okay. But what you should know as a

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backdrop is that when I was an undergrad in the School of International Service, didn't turn out to be the most compatible for what I needed to do at that point, and with everything that was happening in the country, more and more I was saying, you know, the

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international thing is nice to think about, but I need to be somehow in my communities. And so I had to figure out what that was going to mean in terms of a major.

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Well, I still didn't figure out what the major would be, and it wound up being French because I was into language, I wasn't in communication and all of that. But as an undergrad, because of

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the fact that I didn't know where I was going to go professionally, I wound up being able to receive the counsel from Atiba Coppock and Nzanga Kappa, who said, we know you were thinking about the international, but we have seen you work with children through one

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of the Asato program outreach programs. I had been working with inner city children through the friendship House program, and they said, we need to see you go through this master's program in special education.

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It will be a full scholarship, and you'll be able to work with children and adolescents that need you in an area that is at this at these years, we would call it disproportionately misrepresented, underrepresented.

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We need you in this program. We need you to study in this program. And so my fond memory is that they took that mentorship to heart. And they took it took and took a chance to really know and see who

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I was above and beyond, you know, this young person who this young sister who was trying to figure out who she was and they said, okay, we've got the spot for you to continue your education. It would be here at American University.

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And it was a part of an innovation that really changed my life in terms of my professional outlook. Yeah. And with all that wonderful mentorship and, you know, and

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positiveness and growth. What was your what were your greatest challenges? I would say that that internal challenge of really moving from that sense of who I was in an

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academic environment, which had definitely been the token Negro, into one where I could really feel grounded in who I was, as at that point, a black African American sister who really could be a credit to her race with her brothers and sisters.

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The challenge for me was really trusting that that was okay. Really trusting that there wouldn't be a backlash for that. There's nothing that there's nothing that I ever spoke about out loud.

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But it definitely was an internal challenge that I had that I had to work to overcome. But you also became a place where I can move through that challenge. The other challenge was, um, really being able to overcome the

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long standing. And this was, you know, a pre-existing condition, if you will, of confidence of being able to feel like I was a person that could make a difference, that

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mattered to others. I did always have a sense that maybe I could make a difference. Fortunately, you know, I

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understood that, but I did not always feel like I could make a difference. That could matter to others who mattered to me.

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So the challenge would be was, you know, how can I even though I have some areas of immaturity internally, how can my presence be one that on this white campus can still be overcome? Those barriers that I hadn't had a

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chance to really work through during my senior year, that was a challenge for me. But again, the environment, the interactions, the friendships, the relationship made the difference

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for my being able to, even though I didn't always know what I know what I was doing, but to allow my intuitions to help me move through those those channels that I just didn't really know how to do on my own unless I had enough time to be able to do so.

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Yeah. So what then, do you think? What was the role of AU in making helping to make you into the change maker that you have become.

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The innovative aspects of you that were compatible with my nature? And let me tell you what I mean by that. One was the exposure that I had to

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asado the asado experience as I, as as I, as I experienced it. So that meant that, for example, the friendship House experience and my being able to find my place in okay, here's how I can make a difference in the community.

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So that would be one. Okay. The innovative aspect of being a part of a first time master's program, this was an innovative

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program that had never been done before, that was designed for people that were on the cutting edge. They hadn't really done this kind of program before. It became one that school systems in the area were looking for just

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as readily as they were looking for George Washington graduates in special education. They were looking for American university masters and special education.

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And so, again, being a part of that innovative approach to holistically engaging with children and and adolescents, notwithstanding perceived and or sometimes misdiagnosed, um, educational disabilities.

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But we had the training and the knowledge and the holistic, um, exposure to be able to say, here's how we can make some change in an area that has been misrepresented for so long.

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So that innovation, being in the environment where I had the exposure and so later I was able to then have it be a part of the outworking of my behavior in a fashion where here it was more being planted, and then the fruits

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took off. In the decades that followed. The extraordinary decade that followed, um, you know, again, off script, you got to talk about 50 years forward, how your

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experiences. Okay. They you may have given you the boost. Yeah.

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Into this career. Yes. But what has this career now afforded you the opportunity to do?

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Well, um, I need to say that the life, the lifelong learner. Commitment. It's the first sentence in any resume I've ever written and that is partially, you know, a result

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of having been exposed to what I described to you before here at American University. 50 years later, American University is a place where I can come back and say, I want to be a student. I am actually a student in a doctoral program in the School of

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Education here at American University. Um, the fact that they had that they that they grew into having a school of education at American University blew me away. I was just so overwhelmed in a positive fashion that that had

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taken place. I repeat, I went through that special education master's, but it was a part of the of College of Arts and Sciences.

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We did not have School of Education. And so here in 2016 or 2017, there were a series of conversations.

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And I have to say, my husband Ty, had a lot to do with the fact that those spaces for communication was able to happen for me, but I wound up having a conversation with the future dean of the School of Education, and one thing led to

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the other. And, you know, she kind of, you know, encouraged that she loved to see me, you know, apply to, you know, at that time, it was going to be their newly established,

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their inaugural doctoral program. I wound up enrolling in the in the in the third cohort. And so we're coming up on um, a

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celebration soon, but yes, yeah, in December 2023, which will be exactly 50 years after I will have earned would have earned my master's, which was in 1973. Um, wow.

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So that's. So given all of that. Yeah. The inspiration and the the the

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all that you've been inspired to do and that you have worked with. What advice would you give current and future students at AU? How could they? How can they sort of pick up those things that have inspired you to achieve in the way that you have.

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You know, and, and self-reflection and then inter reflection? The first thing that comes to mind is for persons, whether they be students now or alumni, to know that what they know and I and I actually I'm quoting my husband right now, you know, Ty has often

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said this, but it is so pertinent to what I believe about this that what we know and who we are is more important than what we don't know, or who we haven't become yet. And I can expand that by saying that we may see ourselves as

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students or even as alumni, as not knowing, you know, where we belong at American University, in our classes, you know, in the work that we're doing as an alumnus, you know, what do I have to offer? They don't want to hear anything that I have to say instead of that

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saying, learning to say, you know, there's there's a lot that maybe I can share. That's a story that, that someone could benefit from.

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But I also can learn from what it is that I am sharing with others as a student to be able to say, gosh, I'm here. You know, I don't I don't even

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know if I can really feel like I found my crew yet. I don't know if I have a sense of belonging is to say, instead create those spaces of discovery. See, I was so happy that I had a

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chance to discover that which was not right in front of me, but I was in an environment where the possibility was there. It was up to me to kind of persevere, to make those discoveries so that I could then have the benefit of the exposure

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that was available to me at American University. So that's my first thing would be, you know what? What we know is more important than not to get distracted by what we think we don't know, you know, and who we think that we should be

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or who we think that we are. That's not beneficial for somebody else. Know what it is that we are or who

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it is that we are is more important than what it is that we perceive that we are not. And then how can we use that awareness to help us build on the connections that we can make, that

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can then help us take best advantage of what is here at our disposal that we might not recognize. Ordinarily, if we're distracted by those factors that comes to mind. Um, in one sentence.

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Okay. Alrighty. Uh, describe why you think AU has produced so many change makers.

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Do you have like legion of of of a circle that is just boundless in terms of change makers? Why do you think? And what role has they played in creating that? Okay.

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I think of two two dimensions on that. One is that I think that the leadership, the persons who are in leadership positions, um, seem to have a growing commitment to understanding how to create a climate that will motivate change

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in the face of adversity. So that leadership message that comes forth. Um, you know, again, makes fertile

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soil, makes for fertile soil, makes for an environment where change makers can evolve at no matter what point in, you know, being a change maker they may be. Um, and I guess I want to also add

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that, um, there are four and I've learned this recently, but there are four ways of being able to be a change maker, which which challenged my original stereotype of what it meant to be a change maker.

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I didn't always see myself as a change maker because I had a stereotype of what that meant. But what I've learned is that there are at least four levels or four ways I shouldn't even say levels, four ways of being a

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change maker, and being and being presented with the fact that there's not only one way to do it has really broadened access for many people who have the potential, but didn't feel feel a way for it to be actualized.

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Now see it as a place for them in in that so we can be a helper, and that can really be an important way to be a change maker. You know, it's not just getting

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somebody a coffee or somebody, you know, somebody beverage or, you know, what can I do for you in that, in that traditional way. But being a helper can mean facilitating the leadership in others can mean being present in ways that make others know what

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they're capable of, that if they didn't have your help, they wouldn't be able to tap into that. So the helper piece is no small point.

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It can really be a ferocious, you know, resource in helping facilitate and move change. Another way is being an advocate. And we talked about this outside.

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That notion of being an advocate is not just, oh, I support you and your good ideas. No, it's an advocate. Meaning? I'm understanding what you're

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saying is important to you. I'm getting clearer about what your truth is. I've had the space to get a

00:25:41.920 - 00:25:55.720

clarity about what my truth is. How can we be supportive in active, meaningful, sometimes disruptive, yet constructive ways? How can we enact advocacy in that way?

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That's a whole lot different from just being an advocate. Yes, I support your issue. I support you so that so being able to be in an environment where I could learn helper.

00:26:05.260 - 00:26:10.330

Oh yeah. You know advocate. Oh yes. Organizer.

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You know, I mean, I am such an organizer in some ways, but in the ways that I thought were necessary for me to make a difference, I was thinking, no, I'm not that kind of organizer. Therefore I can't make a difference.

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But no, instead organizing information, Organizing scholarship, organizing what it is, and messages that people can benefit from that. Maybe I have a unique way of being

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able to pull that all together so that others can use it in their disrupter, or in their more explicitly present ways. I'm able to make a contribution to that, because I was able to organize the information that they need to convey.

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Okay. And then another way is to be that person that's out there, the one that's most visible, the one that's making the speeches, the one that is that is seen as the

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face of a given issue. I mean, and we certainly we need that too. But AEW has offered an environment

00:27:11.240 - 00:27:25.880

where the notion of being a change maker has a much more inclusive meaning. And so I think that has been a very significant factor, along with the fact that we also have

00:27:25.910 - 00:27:41.750

leadership that is helping to give that to offer that climate, you know, because I mean, bottom line leadership, you know, we're going to come back to what's, you know, what's being said from leadership, but it gives inclusion a whole nother a whole nother meaning.

00:27:41.750 - 00:27:54.410

Not that we don't have a continued commitment to really spread the word on what, well, really spread the behavior on what inclusion really means. But that would be the way that I

00:27:54.410 - 00:28:10.760

would, would answer that. Um, yeah. Is there um, is there anything that you'd like to say that I've not asked you prior? I think that, um, you know, I

00:28:10.760 - 00:28:26.300

appreciate the questions because they have given me a chance to articulate, you know, to put into words, um, many thoughts, many ideas that, you know, when I was here at AU, I didn't have the words and language for that.

00:28:26.840 - 00:28:46.370

Um, I think that when I think of the word bridge, um, I think of you and each of those, each of the letters and the words bridge makes me think of what I want to share. Um, you know, the B makes me think about, you know, being the change.

00:28:46.760 - 00:29:01.370

Um, you know, that that I want to see. But in other words, embodying, learning how to be that change. And again, an environment here happens to be a white institution, but it's also a microcosm of the world.

00:29:01.670 - 00:29:15.260

Um, that's something that I'm hoping students and alumni can understand, that we can be that change. Um, r is to really. Understand the importance of

00:29:15.260 - 00:29:32.150

respect in the current sense and context of the word, that we're not just talking about respect as an idea, but we're talking about respect as what it means to be responsible for what it is that we're learning from one another.

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How is it that we can be responsive in a way that's meaningful, and that takes us away from the status quo? And so respect takes on another a 21st century connotation as it relates to what's happening in our

00:29:47.570 - 00:30:02.030

world and what we want to see happen in our communities. And I is is going to be inclusion. But again, being intentional, I again, to be intentional about what it means to be inclusive, to

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be thinking about what does it how does it show up in the way that I'm communicating? How does it show up in the way that I am asking questions, the way that I am being present with others? What does it mean to be implicit?

00:30:16.100 - 00:30:34.190

I mean to be intentional about those things that I want to see in terms of being inclusive Serve, and Indy is doing the right thing where we have to deconstruct, but in a way that would help us construct, yes, we need to deconstruct and we need to be able

00:30:34.190 - 00:30:46.400

to construct. Right? Right after we have made it clear what that means. And G really means to go after what you want, that's not always

00:30:46.400 - 00:31:03.020

been something I knew how to do, but to go after what I want. Sometimes it means go after what I want with the encouragement of those who believe in me in ways that I don't know how to be for myself, but one way or the other going for it, you know, that's

00:31:03.020 - 00:31:18.320

what we hear ourselves say. And E is to continue to evolve. Lifelong learner, I'm telling you, is really a core value for me. But again, to evolve in ways where mutual benefit is going to be the

00:31:18.320 - 00:31:20.480

outcome on on the other side.