00:00:01.800 - 00:01:25.800

So today, we're here with Pete Piazza on November 23rd, recording this via phone call, and can you just confirm, do I have your permission to record this interview? Sure. great and so to begin, could you tell me a little bit about your background and where you grew up? Well I was born up in Schenectady, New York and lived there for several years and then moved to Brooklyn, New York and I lived there until I came in the military in February of 1960. Well the interesting thing about that was that there were five of us guys that hung out together and one went in the Army, one went in the Navy, one went in the Marines, one went in the coast guard, and the only thing left open was the Air Force. So I took the Air Force, but for several of the reasons is one wanted to go to San Antonio to see the Alamo, which is kind of weird, and just get out of New York City. Basically, so in February 1960, a took off to San Antonio, Texas and joined the Air Force.

00:01:26.600 - 00:04:49.400

Do you remember when you first heard about the war in Vietnam? '61 to '64? Working in security there on the base, the planes that were there some of them would fly over to Vietnam, take pictures, some of them were CIA Special Operations aircraft, they would fly over, and then fly back. And sometimes, they would come in with bullet holes in them. They would come in with palm tree limbs. Branches in the wings of the aircraft because they were flying awful low and we always tease the pilots when we get the chance to talk to him. What are you guys doing? Chase some monkeys, you know, stuff like that. I said, "no, we were not chasing monkeys." And then what were your impressions about the reason that the U.S. decided to get involved in the conflict in Vietnam? I was stationed at Sheppard, Air Force Base in Texas. '64, '65 the ATC, air training command, had an exercise that we were programed to go over there, but it was only an exercise so we didn't go and we turn around and a couple months later I got orders to go to Phan Rang, Vietnam and looked on a map saw where it was at and then went to three days training in Hamilton Air Force Base, California, where it rained all three days we didn't get to do half the training they were wanted us to do then we got on a plane and flew into Con Thien, Vietnam, but Phan Rang couldn't take us because of the fact that at the time- they were building the base and didn't have the facilities for us. So fifty-eight of us policemen, were set up the Cam Ranh Bay Air Base, which was already built two more than Phan Rang was. We stayed there for a year and did our job. And then we came back to the states in December of '66 and got stationed down in Clinton-Sherman air force base in Oklahoma, which was out in the middle of nowheres. And 3 months later I have orders to go back to Vietnam again this time to Bien Hoa air base which is 20 miles north of Saigon, which is now called Ho Chi Minh City, and we flew into Bien Hoa and I spent a year there.

00:04:51.000 - 00:06:06.300

Did they ever specifically say what your goal was? And going to be at Nam, the goal of the US Military? Basically is to help and support the country from Communist forces. They were trying to take it over at the time. And then could you tell me a little bit more how you got involved in the military? Like I said, I joined the Air Force in February of '60. Original plan was like most of the other kids who came in, you know do four years and get out. But at the time when my four years was up, or almost up, I was over in Okinawa and they said "okay you want to reenlist or do you want to get out?" And I said I'll reenlist because I like it over in Okinawa and I reenlisted and then just kept re-enlisting as we go along. You know, it's one of those things that you find something you like and you don't want to leave it really

00:06:07.500 - 00:07:23.700

So you voluntarily entered into the military then, so how did you feel about the idea of the draft at the time? I think they should reinstate the draft and everybody in the country should go and do at least two to three years of military service. Did you have different views of people who volunteered to serve, as opposed, to those who had to be drafted into the service? No because- which they finally did that many years after I got out where they came in all the military itself to get an all-volunteer force.

00:07:24.800 - 00:10:26.500

And could you tell me more specifically about, What exactly you did in the Air Force and how your role evolved throughout your service? Yeah, b-47s or kc-97 aircraft the b-47's carry nukes. kc-9 carried gasoline for the planes. There were- then we moved up to Fighters and carrying nuclear weapons, you know, basically. The air police career field, which then later became in '66 or '67, became the security police and then in the '90s it became the security forces. Name changed but the job didn't, stayed basically the same. You guard the base to make sure that the base doesn't get attacked or overrun You pull law enforcement duties, you pull security duties, your guard- basically guard all the Air Force properties on a base. And then before you returned home from your service, did you have any expectations as to the reception you might receive? Basically no. when I came home yeah, there were people at the airport that were Hare Krishnas and some hippies and what not in San Francisco Airport that were yelling at you and telling you that you're a baby killer, you know, or was not any good or coming up with all kinds of things. I know some guys that came home, especially the army guys, talking to them over the years they've told me that some people spit on them, some people threw- not blood, but paint, red paint on them and stuff like that and told him that they were baby killers, you know, but we didn't kill no babies. We killed the other guy, which would be Charlie, what we call Charlie, with AC and the NVA (North Vietnamese Army), they were trying to kill us from protecting the bases. We're doing our job protecting the bases. At the time, compared to the wars that have come after it's almost the same thing just the names were changed to protect the guilty.

00:10:28.700 - 00:13:04.900

Do you think that people's dislike of the draft might have contributed to the general dislike of the Vietnam War? The draft went on for many years and it never affected anybody until the Vietnam War. I don't know. Some people have told me that they said, "well, you know, we were tired of wars." Well, everybody gets tired of wars especially those that go into the battle. The problem is, is that it's all always two sided but they only listen to one side of the story and they don't listen to the other side of the story because all of them don't want to hear about war no more. How people get maimed, wounded or killed or whatever. And yeah, that that happens on the streets of the countries, all countries these days. So it's really a war going on around the world. The thing that probably hurt of America the worst was the news media for the first time in the history, because they didn't do it World War 2 and they really didn't do it in Korea showed the battle of what was going on out there and maybe that was wrong because when you're in a battle, you don't have time to sit there and look pretty like in the movies for the camera. You know, you're fighting to save your life and your buddy's life because somebody's trying to kill you. So when you returned from your time in the military, what kind of reception did you personally receive? We went through there that you know, all the bad things that they said about the GI's. But my family. welcomed me home and we're glad to see me and also glad that I wasn't wounded or killed too.

00:13:06.900 - 00:15:10.100

And could you talk a little bit more about how you felt about protesters and sort of what their ideas were? The protesters of the Vietnam War? And what you felt their, their ideas were. They don't want to see war. They want peace and prosperity, but unfortunately like I said, they only talk about it to one side. Yeah, a friend of mine, many years ago he said that he told a protester said "okay you want to protest? Why don't you go over to North Vietnam and protest over there and see how far it gets you." Which really makes a lot of sense because they don't want to go to places where they know they're going to be put in jail. They're going to be shot. They're going to whatever because they're protesting, but they feel they can get away with it here. And we, in a way, we let him get away with it, you know, because that's free speech, basically, but sometimes they don't realize what they're saying, or what they're doing. And in which ways do you think that your service was like most misunderstood in the first several years after you you returned? Which ways do you think that your service was most misunderstood by the American public and the first couple of years after you returned?

00:15:20.300 - 00:18:41.300

I never felt that we were misunderstood. I've always felt that we did our job. We went over there, we lost- yeah, we lost over 58,000 men and women, but we went over there to do a job. And in the long run, we were winning the war. The problem was the politicians backstabbed you per se, because of the way they do business, but that's always been the case. Mainly- Most of the guys that I worked with had good feelings about it that they were doing what they felt was, right, to basically stop communism from coming around. Unfortunately it didn't stop it because of the way history showed it. So we just had to keep going the way we were doing our job. And then moving into the way, the war has come to be remembered in popular culture. Do you remember at all? What it was like when movies about Vietnam, first started being made? Movies were a little off. You know movies, take a wider stance on what they can put in and then real life. We went over there. We had an expectation of what to expect, but we weren't sure. Once we were there, once we learned what was going on, how are we need to do our job to secure base. When you see a movie, like a I can't think of it, that Marine movie there- it was some of it was pretty close to accurate, but they take a little bit broader stance on the way they did the movies, you know, blood, guts, and all of that good stuff. We had blood and guts too, mainly not so much from ground attack. Air Force bases, didn't get ground that many ground attached, but they did get rocket and mortar attacks, of course in the TET offensive of '68, which is the biggest ground attack the Air Force Base has ever had, and both bases Saigon and Bien Hoa are based have been one city at a total of enemy Force. Estimated at 5000 attack those two bases and you only had roughly about 15 hundred cops and augment. He's guarding both bases. So, you're a little outnumbered and outgunned, but those days were never overrun. They were never taken over. So, we did our job. What made you want to watch Vietnam films?

00:18:44.900 - 00:20:29.800

Just to see how close they either portray it as accurate or kind of fudge off on a little bit of- from the actual way. It- it went down. In what ways did they accurately portray the experience? In what ways do you think they accurately portrayed this service in Vietnam? That Burn's- Burn's documentary that he did had some pretty good- the the big- the videos that he had showed the war in itself, but sometimes some of the folks that were talking about battles, because over the years we've run across people that have said, "well yeah I was there and said this that or the other thing" and we look at them and say wait a minute. That didn't occur. I cannot remember it. So why are you saying it? Well, I was there and when you pinpoint the guys down, you find out that they saw the movies or they saw the documentary, and they took that information and they really weren't there. They were back there basically, stolen valor folks running around add-libing to what was actually happening, which is another sad part of the of wars too.

00:20:31.600 - 00:21:58.100

Is there anything that you wish would have been shown more in these movies? The Air Force one for one because everything was Army or Marine, some Navy. The only thing it showed about the Air Force was the airplanes, which basically that's the Air Force's job. Now fly- fly, fight, and win but they don't tell the bottom line stories about the guys on the ground, who put the planes up in the air or the supply people or the cops who guard the bases or what not. Sometimes they kind of add-lib a little bit and what was it- like in Captain Kirk there in the Star Trek series showed the cops and Cheyenne Mountain and they were like cartoon characters basically, which you know, a lot of our my guys that I work with were not happy with that because they they made him be ridiculous instead of showing how a good a job they did. Is there a specific movie that stands out to you as being the most realistic? Not really.

00:21:59.600 - 00:24:20.900

How did you feel after you watch some of these films? We were sad, we're still sad today. You work with them and with guys and their standing there next to you one minute, and they're laying there dead the next minute or even wounded, but you have to continue on with the fight because you got that enemy out there, trying to knock you down and make sure you don't get up and you're not going to allow that to happen, but I know that on certain days like thirty-one January and on twelve February, the guys that are still alive from the those two occasions remember the the people that died and passed on. We toast them, as being our friends and brothers in arms. Do you remember any specific Vietnam movies that were particularly popular among the American public? I know there were some folks that felt the war was popular up until probably about TET of '68. When the bat- the big battle took a places for us and it seemed to go downhill after that. But yeah, we were still doing our job over there until '73 when we pulled out.

00:24:22.600 - 00:27:02.100

Why do you think people who were against Vietnam or didn't want to serve chose to see Vietnam war movies. Run that by one more time? Why do you think people that chose not to serve or evaded the draft then wanted to go see movies, depicting service in Vietnam? Truthfully, I can't give you a good answer on that. I know many- what was it? Probably about five six years ago I met a guy that was in the Army and he had volunteered for- told me he volunteered to go to Europe and he served his two of his four years or two- I'm sorry, two years in the Army in Europe,Sicily. Wouldn't go to Vietnam because he didn't want to get into battle. He wasn't so much that he was scared so much that he felt the war wasn't exactly what he felt was, right. But then again, after all the years passed, he said he had realized that he made a mistake and that he had friends classmates and what not that were in the military with him and they went to Vietnam. Some of them lost their lives. Some of them didn't, were wounded and whatnot. But he felt that he- he had missed out maybe and made the wrong decision, but he said he couldn't go back because you can't go back and change history. So it affected him in a way. It's affected other people, too. I know several people that worked for me over there that to this day they don't want to talk about it. It's all bottled up inside of them, and I keep telling them they need to talk about it because if they don't that PTSD will affect them or each year until eventually they will either do something stupid or they just go away. It doesn't leave you it stays with you. No matter what anybody says.

00:27:03.400 - 00:30:42.900

Yeah. Do you believe there's any other forms of media that could be used to better detail the experience of serving in the Vietnam War, besides just movies, well, if Hollywood or the media, or whoever does- shows the stuff, they need to sit down and research it better and actually show what what happened, but from both sides. Example, we had two of our Air Force cops, retired, Colonel and a retired Sergeant went back over to Vietnam to help the Vietnamese government find the bodies that were in a mass burial, grave at Bien Hoa because the Vietnamese wanted to give their bury- their dead an honorable burial. They finally found them and they gave them all a proper burial. Real burial, rather than the mass grave that we had, because of the bodies smelling and everything like that. But same thing with our guys, you know, we we go looking for our people overseas that died in wars and trying to find them so we can give them proper burials and whatnot. And when the the media goes out, they don't actually show a lot of how that affects the people years later. It's quick down and dirty battle. Think they maybe won't come back. You know, today's world you losing twenty-two people almost every day from the military that go out and shoot themselves or commit suicides in some fashion, form or other, which is unheard of back in our time. Yeah, we had suicides but not twenty-two a day. The system, for lack of better word, probably a little broke down. It's not working properly. Why do you think the Vietnam War has become such a popular Topic in American culture and Society? Probably because of the way the news media made it in the beginning. Like I said, news media was over there shooting their cameras all over the place showing the war on tv back in the states and the generations that are finally grown up that saw it originally, they're in their thirties now forties and they want to see maybe some more of it. What they missed are what they got involved in. Not sure if it's good or bad, but it- it gives them some idea of what a war was like. Now, you know, because the war is over there and the Middle East, that's all desert opens skies you know, they like World War Two basically, where the Vietnam War was fought in the jungles, and it was fought twenty-four hours a day. You didn't know when Charlie was going to attack.

00:30:46.600 - 00:32:16.050

In moving into the memorialization of the war and how it's come to be remembered, what were your feelings when you heard a memorial was going to be designed for the Vietnam War in Washington, DC? We've been there several times. I've also worked the traveling wall when it was going around here in Oklahoma. And then I go find the names of the four people that I know that got killed over there and on the wall. It's pretty neat. Before the design for the DC Memorial was announced did you have any ideas about what you thought it should incorporate? No, not really. That wasn't one of my big projects or topics and what not, but when they came up with it, I thought it was a pretty good deal. It's different than the normal museums memorials made up. Which the Vietnam War was a lot different than a lot of other wars.

00:32:19.200 - 00:33:26.800

Do you remember hearing or reading any news about the person whose design was chosen for the memorial in D.C.? I read a long, long time ago, when they first came out with it, read up, saw her on TV but that's about it. So when the design was first announced, it was met with a lot of controversy from both veterans and civilians. Why do you think this was? Probably because everybody had a- the idea that "well it's going to be another one of those where they're put statues up or whatever." And this was a completely different design, which I guess everybody didn't have- didn't particularly care for until you get there and you see the wall and you go from one side to the other and then you realize it, it's pretty good design.

00:33:32.400 - 00:35:12.300

Do you think there was a possible design that could have been spared of any controversy? No because people out there complain about every kind of- they're tearing down statues from one hundred-fifty years years ago. Now what are they going to do in another one hundred-fifty years ago over and tear down the statues in in Washington D.C.? You're going to have that all over the place, unfortunately. Could you talk a little bit about your first experience seeing the memorial? Basically, we were there for a reunion in Washington and went up and that was one of the tour places that we were going and look for the names of the folks that I had worked with that were on the wall, and I got to tell you, I cried a little bit. It affected me. But it always does the first or second time you see it and other than that, it's just- yeah, you it brings back memories of the days when we- when it happened and you remember that. But like I said, we we toast and honor those that passed away on those days, too.

00:35:13.700 - 00:35:58.890

What aspects of the monument did you find to be the most effective? I would venture to say the timeline starting from one end to the other, with each year and showing those that died over those years. Are there any other Vietnam War memorials that you've seen in different locations? I've seen some on news reports and on the internet but I haven't been to none, no.

00:36:00.400 - 00:38:38.500

What do you think Memorial should convey to the public? What do you think a memorial should convey to the people that come to visit? Basically the memorial should show, "here lies"- the names of those who gave their lives to defend the country, you know like the Tomb of the Unknowns in Washington, DC. There's several bodies there that nobody knows who they are except for God and we honor them twenty-four hours a day, three hundred sixty-five days a year to show part of this country's history good, bad or indifferent. Do you think that Vietnam War monuments, have been able to portray the meaning of the war in a way that feels genuine to those who served? It's hard to say. A memorial should honor those that passed. Maybe not so much those that are still alive because we're still alive. Example of that is like, the Vietnam Security Police Association. There were one hundred and twelve cops killed in Vietnam, not all from battles, some from suicide, some from accidents, some from just dying and we have a number originally, it was one hundred and ten, they found one more so its one hundred and twelve. Well, the number one-one- one is the number that the association keeps for every cop that passed away at our augmentee after the Vietnam War. So when I pass away, I will still- I will be part of that one-one-one because that number will never change. It will never go up higher than that. So there's- that's the way we as an association honor all our men who were in the Vietnam War.

00:38:40.600 - 00:40:40.700

Do you think it's important that the Vietnam War be commemorated in the US? Oh, yeah, same thing with World War two, Korean War, Civil War. So that's part of our history. Like I said, good bad or indifferent, you should honor those that died and should honor those that are still living because eventually that's history one-oh-one gone. Once those people are pass on there's no one to tell the story, no more except for- what they have on tape, news media or movies or whatever. Do you think time has changed the way that veterans remember their experience in the war or understand it? Good question, I don't know, truthfully. Sometimes you hope people would understand but there's no guarantee. I talked before an ALS class, Airman leadership school and get and tell them what I went through and some of them understand it, a bigger percentage because they don't- aren't involved in combat or whatever other than flying an aircraft, maybe or on the ground crew just look at me like, "Okay. Yeah, right. You're telling us your war story, fine." And they go on, you would hope they would understand what was going on and- but no guarantees.

00:40:42.700 - 00:42:40.050

How do you think access to the internet? Has changed the way that people learn about the Vietnam War? Oh, yeah. I don't know probably about the last fifteen, twenty years, I know we get, I get anyway, phone calls emails, texts wanting to know from people "did you know my uncle, ,my dad, did you know my grandfather? Were you stationed with them over in Vietnam or some other location?" Because they want to know what they did. A lot of vets will not talk about what they did to their family and like I tell everybody that I talk to you need to tell what's going on in your mind and let your family know your history because when you die, that history is gone. And if they don't know, they're going to go looking and if they if they can't they can't find it in then they'll always have that blank spot of what happened. Do you think the internet's contributed at all to understandings of the Vietnam War in current Society? To some point, yeah. Each individual that kind of goes through the internet they see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear and don't look at that particular story line of what's going on or what happened. That's part of nature I guess you could say. People will only pick out what they want to pick up on.

00:42:42.500 - 00:43:29.300

And do you participate in any sort of activities or events to try and educate people about the Vietnam War? Oh, yeah, we have events here Oklahoma that I get involved in. Basically the memorials, like I said briefing the ALS class and giving them some ideas of what we went through and what not. when did you first get involved in those activities? Probably back about, probably back around 2000-2002, somewheres in there.

00:43:31.100 - 00:45:22.100

Why do you think it's important to try and educate people about the Vietnam War? Well the Commandant, like the Commandant of the ALS school, he asked me one day if I would come and talk to the class and I said, sure. So I go in and I sit there and I talked to the class and let him look through the books I have and what not, and they get a better understanding of what a cop did during the Vietnam war rather than the pilot or crew chief or maintenance guy, or a supply guide or something like that. Like I said, some of them take it to heart, some of them look at it and say "Yeah okay just another war story" and go on their own way, but at least they've been told some of the stuff and they have to make up their mind what they believe or not. How would you like people in today's society to remember those who served in the Vietnam War? Hopefully they thank them for doing their job. You know, it was not a friendly war, was not a likable war, if there is such a thing, but the folks that went out there and went to Vietnam and Thailand and Laos and Cambodia. They went to do their job, and hopefully everybody will understand that one day.

00:45:25.000 - 00:48:09.900

Do you think it's possible to create an accurate national memory of the war? Probably not. People are fickle. They'll listen to you and what you say and what not and then they'll turn around shake your hand walk away and put it out of their minds entirely. Some people will thank you for it, and remember it, and it's a fifty-fifty shot. There's no perfect way of putting anything anymore. It's "Yeah okay. Thanks. You did- you did you went over there and did whatever you did then you came home" That's it. So as we start to come to a close a little bit, what methods do you think the American public today, younger generations, can take to allow the Vietnam War to be better understood? Probably better teaching in class. Like when my daughter went to school or college basically I looked at one of her books and the information about the Vietnam War was only three quarters of a page long in a book with over five hundred pages. I said, you know, this doesn't tell you nothing about what happened, other than there was a war we lost it. We came home. Yeah, it doesn't tell you what everybody went through the good, the bad, or the indifference of the battles that happened. Everyday life was not a piece of cake, it was hell. Some days you had good days. Some days you have bad days and some days you just made it with the skin of your teeth. So that's basically what life's about. You get up in the morning and your whole body- the time you go to bed and get up the next day you're okay. So, I don't know if there's a good answer to the question or not. You just hope there is.

00:48:09.900 - 00:49:12.600

If there was a message that you could pass on to the younger generation about your time serving in the Vietnam War. What would you want them to know? Read and look, and when you see a Vietnam vet out there with a hat on or a jacket or a shirt, go up to him and say, thank you. Most of the time, people don't do that. And if you do that, that person will get a little spark of life back in there into their life, they feel like, "okay somebody recognized me and said, thank you." It helps. How do you want your own experience to be remembered? I did my job.

00:49:19.000 - 00:51:20.680

Well that really that really wraps up the bulk of the questions that I had for you. Is there anything that you wish that you could have talked about or that I would have asked you about. I think you covered it pretty good. You know, like I said, it's history one-oh-one. A lot of people will research history. Lot of people will look at movies, videos, and whatnot and say "well, okay this is the way it was. The newsreels have it this way and whatnot.l But if you like go to say breakfast in the morning and you go to a cafe or restaurant, and there's a vet sitting there by himself with his hat on, or his jacket, or whatever and he's drinking a cup of coffee and you go over and just so- you know, thank you for doing what you did and what not. And maybe he'll open up and tell you what he did to give you a better insight because there's many insights that people don't even know about. And a lot of people just don't care either but that vet cares. They've been there, they've seen it and it's a- some of them it eats them away, and they eventually go do something stupid, kill themselves, or whatever and that's sad. Well, I want to thank you again so much for taking the time to speak with me today about your experiences. In Vietnam. Your interview is been incredibly valuable and it's going to be a really great addition to creating a greater understanding of those who served in the Vietnam War and an American popular culture. Okay, did you go the VSPA (Virginia State Police Association) website?

00:51:23.000 - 00:51:37.200

I have- I have been on that website. Yes. I think you'll find a lot more information there when you go look at it. Yeah, I'll definitely check it out again. That's a great recommendation. But thank you so much.