00:00:02.160 - 00:00:19.200

I'm a PhD student in anthropology at American University. Um, I am doing these oral history interviews on behalf of Doctor Amanda Taylor, um, who is like leading this project, um, and has been kind of in conversation about this project for the last, maybe

00:00:19.240 - 00:00:30.320

year or so. Um, so we are collecting oral history interviews to preserve the impact of WINS. Um, the kind of end product of this is still to be determined,

00:00:30.560 - 00:00:43.120

um, and, you know, will likely be a result of also what we learn from these interviews. Um, so we'll certainly keep you posted as this kind of develops and grows.

00:00:43.120 - 00:00:53.520

But at this point in time, we're just like conducting these interviews and trying to gather perspectives from a bunch of different people who participated in ones. Um, and I will share those interviews with Doctor Amanda

00:00:53.520 - 00:00:56.800

Taylor. Um, and then we'll take it from there. Okay.

00:00:57.840 - 00:01:06.660

So that is kind of an overview of the project. Do you have any questions for me? Uh, no. Not yet. I'm excited you all are doing this. Yeah, it's been really awesome.

00:01:06.780 - 00:01:12.700

Um, it's been great to just, like, connect with people, learn about their experiences, learn more about the program. Um, so it's been really great.

00:01:12.940 - 00:01:26.460

Um, I guess the best place to maybe start with you. The questions are very general, so feel free to kind of take this in whatever direction you find most useful and relevant for you. But, um, we've just been starting with introductions of who you are.

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Um, and then your experience with winds kind of generally if you want to speak to that, um, major takeaways from winds and then we can go from there. Yeah, sure.

00:01:36.540 - 00:01:43.540

Happy to. So do you just want me to start with who I am and all that stuff or. Yeah, yeah.

00:01:43.780 - 00:01:50.260

Ready to dive in? Uh, well, uh, yeah. My name is Philip Bussey junior. I am a Cherokee citizen.

00:01:50.620 - 00:02:04.730

I, um, am from Oklahoma City. I am currently the president of, uh, Delaware Resource Group. We're a global aerospace defense contractor headquartered here in Oklahoma City.

00:02:05.170 - 00:02:24.850

Um, my, uh, first exposure to WINS was the summer of 2002 program. And I think it I've told this many of times it was probably the most impactful, um, program of my, uh,

00:02:24.850 - 00:02:39.730

undergraduate studies. It really was one of those, um, I went to undergrad at Southwestern Oklahoma State University in Weatherford, Oklahoma, and, uh, was in a, um, I had gotten a

00:02:39.730 - 00:02:49.570

letter in the mail saying, hey, if you're interested, apply. And, uh, so I was just. Why not? And then next thing you know, I was accepted.

00:02:49.970 - 00:03:04.510

I was one of those students who was not sure why I was at southwestern. I was studying, uh, art and graphic design and, um, but when I got to the program, uh, several

00:03:04.510 - 00:03:16.230

things happened. Uh, I, um, I learned a lot about both myself. Um, but also, um, really where I

00:03:16.230 - 00:03:38.150

needed to take my career and, um, where and and the importance of of of winds and where I stood with, um, my own, um, you know, being a citizen of the Cherokee Nation and where my heritage and basically, you know, there's a lot of here in Oklahoma, we have a different, um,

00:03:40.110 - 00:03:57.860

you know, a a tribal citizen from Oklahoma is going to be different from a tribal citizen from Arizona, from a tribe in Arizona and or, uh, you know, New Mexico or elsewhere when they, um, there's been a lot of and learn.

00:03:57.860 - 00:04:12.730

I've learned a lot of this. It was eye opening to me during the women's program. Um, the one of the most impactful moments was the first, um, really like the first day of WINS.

00:04:13.260 - 00:04:29.180

Um, there was a lot of us. I know it was over 100 at during that time. In 2002, there was a lot of participation in WINS and I was struck by, um, there was a lot of us in the room.

00:04:29.300 - 00:04:38.380

We were all to congregate in some, uh, area over at Tenley campus in this big room. And it was very apparent we all had different backgrounds.

00:04:38.420 - 00:04:48.620

Uh, you had some people that they had never left the reservation. Um, you have people like myself in Oklahoma who who never grew up on a reservation.

00:04:49.060 - 00:05:02.560

Um, and right there. So it was it's almost I want to say it was like half of, um, you know, you have people that were Apache and, um, you know, came from they came from the

00:05:02.560 - 00:05:13.080

reservation, uh, Navajo. Um, and then you had, uh, myself, who did not come from a reservation. As a matter of fact, there's no reservation technically, in

00:05:13.080 - 00:05:21.120

Oklahoma. Uh, there's a lot of assimilation, uh, that had taken place that has taken place in places like Oklahoma.

00:05:21.480 - 00:05:34.760

And so for us to be all in the same room, um, there was you saw people that were scared, um, excited. Um, but then also like, why is

00:05:34.760 - 00:05:54.030

that blonde, blue eyed girl here? Why is. You know, and then there's people that looked, uh, the stereotypical what is a, a a citizen of a, a indigenous tribe? Um, people had ideas of what that should look like and the fact that

00:05:54.070 - 00:06:06.550

we you put us all in a room and it was like a melting pot. Um, and I, I know one of the people was Debbie broken rope. Uh, she was an instructor. Um, I cannot remember the name of

00:06:06.550 - 00:06:18.470

the other individuals, uh, or nor the person that was leading the program at the at the time. That's all slipped me, but it was there was some, you know, wrestling amongst the, the the

00:06:18.670 - 00:06:31.750

kids in the room and, um, they were basically saying, you're all here, you're all welcome. You are all native and we are all, um, you all came from different backgrounds, and that's why you're

00:06:31.750 - 00:06:44.470

all here. Um, they I, I believe there's a conscious effort to pull from all over the country, um, and get them to get us all together to see that we all have that we're all

00:06:44.470 - 00:06:54.050

different, but we're all the same in many regards. And that's where, uh, really? That, um, it was Debbie broken Rope. Who was the professor really

00:06:54.050 - 00:07:01.210

harped on on. They really we took the winds class and it was really on tribal sovereignty, tribal sovereignty, tribal sovereignty.

00:07:01.690 - 00:07:11.770

And at the time, you know, you're young, you're trying to get your bearings of like, where? Wow, why? Where the hell am I? And and tribal sovereignty, why is that important?

00:07:12.170 - 00:07:34.130

And by the end of the program, I understood fully and had drunk the Kool-Aid of why sovereignty was important. Um, and and thanks to the curriculum that the WINS program provided at that level, um, I thought it was a wonderful program

00:07:34.130 - 00:07:45.930

that definitely, um, you know, it was always instilled like, you will me, I loved American University. I loved the the campus, the classes, the instructors, the the people I got to meet.

00:07:46.330 - 00:07:56.750

The vibe was very it's a wonderful, um, educational institution, but they were very much like, no, you're going home. After this program ends, you go

00:07:56.750 - 00:08:01.510

home, you don't stay. We have MoUs with universities in this program. It's.

00:08:01.950 - 00:08:15.470

And, um, anyway, I stayed in very close contact with people. I have a lady who I call my, um, D.C. mom, and her name is Meg Weeks. Uh, she was a dean of, uh.

00:08:15.470 - 00:08:26.150

She was an associate dean. I'm sorry. In the public affairs, um, department at American University, I don't remember what the the school and so forth at the time,

00:08:26.150 - 00:08:42.590

but, um, she became very important to me. Uh, she was, uh, she really dug in to, um, the program. Uh, I got to know her very quickly. Um, she is a, um, fascinating woman.

00:08:42.590 - 00:09:00.380

Someone I still think, in the highest regard. Um, but she was a pivotal in guiding, um, us students to do the right thing and to continue with studies and, um, just an all around wonderful academic mentor.

00:09:00.900 - 00:09:15.780

Um, she led the at the time she was Debbie Brogan wrote, taught like the winds and turns or like the, the, uh, the tribal sovereignty part, the Marshall Trilogy and, you know, the curriculum that we're all there

00:09:15.780 - 00:09:26.020

for. And then Meg put together this, um, the other the internship program. And that was she brought in, you know, uh, Jimmy Carter,

00:09:26.020 - 00:09:45.200

speechwriter, uh, Knight Kiplinger to talk about finance. And, you know, these once a week sessions were just really powerhouse, um, DC and then why your internship is important. Really stressing to students on, uh, how to get the most out of

00:09:45.200 - 00:10:00.360

your experience in DC, and I can't thank her enough. Um, because she so you had this wonderful aspect of learning why sovereignty is important. And so the hopes are, Debbie was

00:10:00.360 - 00:10:09.640

very adamant that you'll take this knowledge and you go back to your tribes. And I hope that you become leaders in this program are leaders from this.

00:10:09.840 - 00:10:20.680

And you will protect your own tribes, um, because you will be aware of tribal sovereignty, uh, because it is constantly under threat. Um, it's one of those things that,

00:10:20.720 - 00:10:32.400

you know, I'm not a lawyer, and that's probably the beauty of it is it's usually the lawyers that know what what the hell sovereignty is and why it's important. Because if you talk to the average person, they're like, what, what,

00:10:32.400 - 00:10:48.390

why? And then you don't realize the role that the the nations have with the federal government, and then that complex role that it takes with the state government. It really is something that an academic level, you need to take

00:10:48.390 - 00:10:59.590

that and like most people could study their entire academic career and they do about the role that, um, the tribes play with the federal government. And here in Oklahoma, you have the

00:10:59.590 - 00:11:09.510

whole McGirt thing that just kind of, well, us as now that I've been to WINS I knew exactly what they were talking about when I saw it in the news. A lot of people get a lot of

00:11:09.510 - 00:11:26.670

misinformation, and that can be the politicization from, uh, elected officials who, right or wrong, a lot of times I have that heart of to believe that they just don't know, um, enough. And so that's and that's where the danger lies, and that's where

00:11:26.670 - 00:11:40.670

misinformation spreads, or, um, public opinion starts to shift in a very negative way that is detrimental to why things were put together to begin with. And so I think what what the

00:11:40.850 - 00:11:53.730

university did with the program. It wins helped solidify for for a generation of help protecting all the roles that sovereignty has and today.

00:11:53.730 - 00:12:05.090

And so you see it still, uh, it's a it's like a constant if you're not paying attention, if you haven't had that experience with wins. Uh, only I believe, you know, people like me who don't have a

00:12:05.130 - 00:12:21.970

law degree, um, but can see the constant threat and the danger that lies with not protecting sovereignty. Some people just see it as a word or a. Oh, yeah, well, I know who you are, but there's actual legal precedents that have formulated

00:12:21.970 - 00:12:27.490

where we're from. Um, sorry. It's a lot of rambling. I feel like I'm trying to spit out

00:12:27.490 - 00:12:34.930

a lot to you. No, that was amazing. Um, that's super helpful. And you're actually, um, the the

00:12:35.090 - 00:12:45.480

first person I think that I've spoken to. Who, um, who really spoke to the perspective of, like, not coming from a reservation. Um, I just spoke to someone

00:12:45.480 - 00:12:54.280

yesterday who, you know, she spoke a lot about how, like, this program was instrumental in her life because it was her first time leaving the reservation. So it's it's helpful to also get

00:12:54.280 - 00:13:04.880

the alternative perspective. Um, I would love to hear more about two, your professional trajectory, like how you got from studying art to where you are now.

00:13:04.920 - 00:13:16.040

I think that's really. Well, that was to me. I was very fortunate to my, my, the person I was assigned to.

00:13:16.600 - 00:13:21.960

I don't have a relationship with him now. Unfortunately, there was some fallout that happened.

00:13:22.480 - 00:13:31.760

You know it. It's unfortunate. But at the time that individual, um, was a wonderful mentor to me.

00:13:32.080 - 00:13:44.020

Uh, his name was Charles Nesby, and he's still around in the DC area, but I don't I do not keep in touch with him anymore. I do value what he did for me.

00:13:44.580 - 00:13:52.380

Um, when I met, he was one of those individuals. He was a presidential appointee. He worked directly with the secretary of.

00:13:52.380 - 00:14:06.700

I worked at the VA, um, in the center for Minority Veterans portion of the VA in just the, you know, a block from the white House. And he reported directly to Secretary Anthony Principi.

00:14:06.700 - 00:14:30.780

So, uh, he had a direct line with the secretary of and that was big. And he he told me right away, um, if you come in a suit and tie or if you wear a tie every day, you will go to every meeting that I have and I, I so I that's where it really like oh like he's stressed

00:14:30.780 - 00:14:41.400

on me. He was a um Navy former military Navy AV veteran, and he's a Top Gun pilot. Uh, and so he, um.

00:14:43.200 - 00:14:56.400

And so I admire his military background, of course. And, uh, and he but he was a very polished individual, and he stressed to me, um, to be to be

00:14:56.400 - 00:15:06.360

polished if I'm there, if I, if I dress the part, look the part, I can go anywhere with him. And so that was I did I went every day.

00:15:06.560 - 00:15:15.640

It's in the summer. It's hot and humid in that, in that town. And I think I took a shower every, you know, twice a day when I got in the morning.

00:15:15.640 - 00:15:25.440

And then when I got back before my classes because I had just sweat out my have to wear my sport coat and tie. And anyway.

00:15:25.440 - 00:15:29.480

It's the worst. It is. Terrible. But it.

00:15:29.480 - 00:15:43.630

Was, it was. Worth it because I still I, didn't want to do it, but I did it because he told me to do it. And I also knew the value that if I could go and I could really,

00:15:43.630 - 00:15:54.550

truly observe. And I feel like I was fortunate in the fact that I listened to what he had to say. And I was, I believe I was very lucky in the mentor I had.

00:15:54.550 - 00:16:08.950

The person I was assigned to, I think, made a heck of a difference in the internship from what I've seen from others, where they go sit at a cubicle and hear, do this assignment and that's it. That's not the internship I had.

00:16:08.950 - 00:16:24.190

This was very hands on as far as going to these meetings, seeing how the meetings were conducted. But then the ramifications of the meetings, you know, going in and I'm sitting in the meeting and there's the secretary of VA right

00:16:24.190 - 00:16:38.330

there. Um, I'm in the back of the room, of course, against the wall, but the whole but I was witnessing how things were being conducted, and I had a very much appreciation of I

00:16:38.410 - 00:16:52.930

hate politics. It's it's draining. But at that level, I came to appreciate and understand that there is a different level in the government that, um, those people.

00:16:52.930 - 00:16:59.370

Yes. The person I work for was appointed by the president to serve in that position. Yes.

00:16:59.370 - 00:17:10.970

The secretary was a presidential, uh, obviously presidential appointee, highly political. And how that person got that. But under that right, under that

00:17:10.970 - 00:17:27.130

level is these people that are just dedicated, period, to work for the common good, and they want to be federal employees. They want to make a difference. They do not they don't play in the

00:17:27.130 - 00:17:32.600

political game. They are simply there. And I was there at the VA. They just wanted to help veterans.

00:17:32.800 - 00:17:42.880

They could care less who was in who was in the presidential office. They could care less as long as their budget was was funded and they could do what they needed to

00:17:42.880 - 00:17:50.680

do. But they were so it was so, um, I wish people could see that. And you wouldn't probably have.

00:17:50.720 - 00:18:05.600

I never have had the hate that I see coming back to Oklahoma. It's a different environment because you're removed from DC, but having been there and seeing those people that that ride the subway every day, they wear their sneakers with their suit and they

00:18:05.600 - 00:18:20.640

change into their dress shoes, um, when they get to the building and they, you know, they just grind. And it was such a positive experience that mentor, though, how I went from here.

00:18:20.640 - 00:18:38.540

I am thinking art and well, there's really nothing else. You know, I he, uh, nesby stressed to me that he talked to me about school and about what I was doing, and he really said I was very forthright in him.

00:18:38.540 - 00:18:52.060

Like, I'm like, yeah, I like art. So I'm taking art history classes, and he's kind of like, well, you know, that's not going to get you a career that's like, if you want to make money and if you want to really make a he really stressed.

00:18:52.060 - 00:19:06.180

He said, I really, you know, if you want to. I said, I love what I see here at the federal government. And he said, well, you need to what's your weakest link? And, um, he, he stressed that because I would have to write him

00:19:06.180 - 00:19:14.100

things. He was like, you suck at writing. You're terrible writer. So he challenged me.

00:19:14.140 - 00:19:28.920

He said, when you go back to school, I. I want you to change. When you go back to Southwestern in Weatherford, you need to change your change it to English, whatever. But Writings your weakest link.

00:19:28.960 - 00:19:41.840

Therefore, you study writing. And so I did I actually. What happened was I when I got back from the internship, I went back to the administration office.

00:19:41.840 - 00:19:57.760

I changed my major from I, I wanted to stay at southwestern. So I switched from graphic design immediately to, um, mass communications and journalism. And and I talked to Nesby about

00:19:57.760 - 00:20:08.040

this, and he thought, well, journalism, that's perfect. You will be forced to write. And I knew I knew that I sucked at writing, but he, he, he encouraged me to fight it head on.

00:20:08.480 - 00:20:22.440

So I enrolled in, uh, switched majors and started studying journalism. And, um, also at the same time, when I was in DC, I took a bunch of pictures.

00:20:22.840 - 00:20:39.910

I carried with me a camera, and it was a digital camera that I bought at the Best Buy over in Tenley campus near Tenley. And I don't know if it's still there or not, but, um, I took that camera around on the weekends.

00:20:39.910 - 00:20:49.670

I had a bike. I also bought a bicycle while I was in D.C. and I rode around. I took pictures of the monuments, and I did them in black and white, and I took them.

00:20:49.710 - 00:21:00.230

It was a nice overture to leaving the art program. I showed my art professor all the photos I had taken, and she immediately looked at these and

00:21:00.230 - 00:21:14.830

was like, we have to do a show, we have to do a, you have got to show this, this work. So I was the first undergrad of not seeing I was a first undergrad.

00:21:14.830 - 00:21:23.910

That was not basically what they did was they took the exhibit hall and they said, you're not. That's reserved for seniors. And they said, no, you're going to get this.

00:21:23.950 - 00:21:41.290

You are going to do this show of your photographs. And I, we called it souls of the nation and it was a great exhibit. It immediately got the attention of, um, I got a call from the Weatherford Daily News.

00:21:43.010 - 00:22:00.330

They had I got a call from the Public relations, the public relations office at the university, and I got a call from the student newspaper. All three of them offered me photography jobs, and I accepted

00:22:00.330 - 00:22:11.650

all of them. So the next thing you know, I was working, um, I was working for the public relations office on campus, working for the student.

00:22:12.170 - 00:22:25.800

And that made really easy sense to work for the PR office and the student newspaper, because then I'm taking photos, um, for two things. And then the Weatherford Daily News does the same thing.

00:22:25.840 - 00:22:37.360

They like we need a photographer. And, um, so would you take. So I started, uh, running myself ragged. And the next thing you know, with the student paper, I started

00:22:37.360 - 00:22:51.560

writing articles because I worked with my. He's now the my advisor. Uh, and he knew my, um, why I was going in, and he was the one that allowed me to enter the program

00:22:51.560 - 00:23:01.200

because he's like, okay, you're going to you just want to improve your writing. Uh, he got me to start, uh, since I was taking photographs, he forced me to start writing

00:23:01.200 - 00:23:12.000

articles for the paper. For the student paper. So to for the abundance of time. What ended up happening was I was

00:23:12.400 - 00:23:23.260

I became the sports editor for the Weatherford Daily News while I was an undergrad. I was also I became the editor in chief of the student paper while I was an undergrad and still took

00:23:23.500 - 00:23:35.260

pictures for the public relations office in at southwestern all at the same time up at. And I also still study, still full time student.

00:23:35.540 - 00:23:54.660

I also met my future wife up there and we got engaged and um, and then we got married and, um, I used I was making a lot of money for a kid, uh, because I had a salary at the.

00:23:54.700 - 00:24:05.780

So here I am, a full time student. But they let me make, you know, get a salary as a college kid to be the sports editor for the student paper. I mean, not the student paper.

00:24:05.780 - 00:24:10.140

Sorry. The Weatherford Daily News. And, uh, anyway, it was a hell of a run.

00:24:10.140 - 00:24:20.690

I, I did burn out after a 11 months of all three at the same time. It was just too much. Um, Um, but that's okay.

00:24:20.730 - 00:24:28.050

Uh, it was a wonderful experience. It definitely put my name out there on the map with the university. Um, and then people in town.

00:24:28.210 - 00:24:35.330

I married my wife, who was a fourth generation from that town. And, um, we're still married together.

00:24:35.330 - 00:24:47.650

We've been. We just celebrated our 20 year anniversary. Um, this this month, we, um. Then I convinced Heather she was

00:24:47.650 - 00:25:01.810

when she saw me, I was driven, and, uh, so we ended up doing. I ended up convincing her to do when she's Caddo. So I ended up convinced her to do the winds program in the spring of 2005.

00:25:02.250 - 00:25:13.290

And so Meg Weeks and Nesby helped us again, uh, get internships or she got her internship through winds. I got my internship outside of

00:25:13.290 - 00:25:25.310

winds, but I still. Meg weeks, uh, arranged for us to have an apartment at Park Bethesda, um, which at the time was owned by the university as an apartment building.

00:25:25.510 - 00:25:38.110

Um, because it's like, wait a minute. Um, we have a married couple who, uh, needs to go to school. And, uh, so we we were over there, and anyway, Heather did that program.

00:25:38.550 - 00:25:59.190

What ended up happening was, um, the, uh, I got to know Jack Soto very well, and, uh, he asked me to be on the board of the winds, the wind advisory board. And so I was I served on that board until, um, the program was

00:25:59.270 - 00:26:09.110

disbanded. That's awesome. Try to condense as much as possible. No, that was super helpful.

00:26:09.230 - 00:26:15.430

Um, and super cool to hear. You know how you got to that point. Three jobs at once is crazy. Um, yeah.

00:26:15.630 - 00:26:28.530

But also to see, you know, the direct correlation, um, to WINS as well. I honestly think the work ethic I got from wins, having to go full time with a mentor who was go, go,

00:26:28.570 - 00:26:43.810

go, um, and then also to do the course work that I did at American University at night. It was every three nights a week I was doing classwork, um, in class on top of, you know, all the

00:26:43.810 - 00:26:56.850

homework and stuff. At the time, in 2002, I was very frustrated with Debbie because she gave a lot of homework. But you look back on it now, it's like, thank you very much.

00:26:57.570 - 00:27:09.170

But I think that work ethic. Is what. Allowed me to show myself that I could do all these things and, uh, and, and, and make a positive impact.

00:27:09.170 - 00:27:18.520

And and it did. And so, um, yes. Now I'm, um, I work? Yes, it's a family owned business, but we're also, um.

00:27:18.560 - 00:27:34.080

The company itself is global. We have almost 1000 employees around the world. Um, we're one of the largest, um, uh, aerospace defense contractors, I think, with the first or second largest defense contractor

00:27:34.120 - 00:27:39.960

headquartered in Oklahoma. Um, so we're very we've we've grown a lot. And.

00:27:40.240 - 00:27:49.600

Yeah, I'm now the president. Awesome. That is fascinating to hear about. And, uh, yeah, I really appreciate

00:27:49.600 - 00:28:00.640

you sharing because I think, um, it's helpful. It's interesting for me just on a human being level, like seeing the ways, you know, I'm early in my career. So seeing the ways that your kind of career has developed is really

00:28:00.640 - 00:28:08.640

cool. Yeah. And then also on behalf of the WINS interviews is super helpful to get the details on like, you know, how this directly correlated

00:28:08.640 - 00:28:13.940

to where you are now. Um, so really appreciate you sharing that. Um, still.

00:28:13.940 - 00:28:24.860

Don't have any other questions really. For you, but feel free. This. Um, I have done a lot of work, uh, with, uh, with my tribe, um,

00:28:26.020 - 00:28:39.900

following, uh, we're not tribally owned. We are Native American owned, uh, business. And so I've been able the understanding that I've developed at Wins has helped me with navigate that.

00:28:40.420 - 00:29:00.220

Um, but also, uh, I, I stay involved and advocate for the Cherokee Nation, uh, when it comes to, um, protecting sovereignty. Um, and so it's still today. That was 22 years ago.

00:29:00.220 - 00:29:09.580

And when still resides with me. Um. No. That's awesome. Um, so thank you for sharing.

00:29:09.700 - 00:29:20.250

Um, it certainly is cool to see the ways that you know your experience overlaps with others, but it's also like very distinct, um, and your experience. And so it's helpful to, to pair

00:29:20.250 - 00:29:26.490

those with other interviews that we've had as well. Um, I certainly will keep you updated. Yeah. Sorry.

00:29:26.890 - 00:29:35.370

Oh. Have you spoken with Meg Weeks? I have not, so that's. What I was going to say. If you have anyone that you think like, we should certainly talk to,

00:29:35.730 - 00:29:42.090

um, if you have contact information, that would be really helpful. Yes. She lives, uh, right over by the campus, off.

00:29:42.130 - 00:29:52.690

Just like, two blocks off Mass Avenue. Um. Oh, cool. Okay. So I yes, I will, I'll if you don't have that information, I

00:29:52.690 - 00:30:04.730

know somebody at the at American University does. She lives and breathes a U. Um, but of course, she might be retired now. Um, but I you definitely have to

00:30:04.770 - 00:30:15.630

talk to Meg Weeks. Uh, she was so instrumental in that program for so long at the university level and I. I can't think enough.

00:30:15.670 - 00:30:25.950

She helped my wife and I that 2005 internship. Um, she, um, was definitely my mother, uh, from DC because I ended up having to have an

00:30:25.950 - 00:30:34.390

appendectomy. Emergency appendectomy. Um, and so she cared for me up there. Uh, then.

00:30:34.710 - 00:30:47.030

And same with my wife. Uh, she my wife got food poisoning and again. And she was in the hospital again. Meg helped us, helped her and

00:30:47.030 - 00:31:00.750

myself, uh, during that, that those trying times. Um, and she was, um, a faculty at American University. And that just speaks to the. And it's just so completely

00:31:01.150 - 00:31:11.300

memorable. And I will never forget the, um, kindness and acts of service that she bestowed upon us. Awesome.

00:31:11.340 - 00:31:16.060

Well, I will certainly, um, get in contact with her. I'll try and hunt down her email, but.

00:31:16.060 - 00:31:21.540

Yeah, if you if you seem to find it, um, please feel free to share. If you think of anyone else you think we should talk to.

00:31:21.620 - 00:31:29.100

Um, we're happy to take recommendations. So, um, really appreciate you sharing your experience and and hoping to continue the

00:31:29.100 - 00:31:37.140

conversation with others as well. Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you need anything else, um, I'm happy to provide, uh, or elaborate.

00:31:37.140 - 00:31:44.740

I know I've taken up more of your time, but I've been I've enjoyed reflecting, and I'm sorry if I get long. It's a Busey trait.

00:31:45.900 - 00:31:54.780

No. For oral history interviews, long winded is preferred. This is perfect. Um, so thank you so much. Um, and, yeah, we'll certainly stay in touch.

00:31:54.780 - 00:31:59.700

If any questions come up, feel free to contact me. But, um, we really appreciate your time. Great. Thank you so much.

00:31:59.740 - 00:32:04.300

Have a wonderful Memorial Day weekend. You as. Well. Thank you.

00:32:04.340 - 00:32:06.140

Thank you. Bye.