00:00:03.160 - 00:00:15.360

Um, okay. So basically these interview, we're doing a series of interviews, um, with people who participated in the ones program, um, to try and preserve the impact

00:00:15.360 - 00:00:32.280

of winds, hopefully share the impact of WINDS with others. Um, and so that's the primary goal of this oral history project. Um, I am in part, I'm part of kind of the first half of this work. So doing the actual interviews, um, I helped sort of facilitate

00:00:32.280 - 00:00:41.800

some of the questions that maybe we wanted to ask. You'll see that they're very general questions, but still, um, kind of help with that end of things. And then Amanda, doctor Amanda Taylor is the one that's actually

00:00:41.840 - 00:00:51.320

like leading the project. So she will be kind of the, the through line, um, throughout the life of the project, whether, you know, depending on where it ends up.

00:00:51.320 - 00:01:04.430

So like there's been conversations about potentially doing, um, some sort of workshop or like alumni connection event with people who participated in wins, um, that sort of thing. So she'll be kind of the main, the steady contact that you'll see.

00:01:04.430 - 00:01:17.430

But, um, they'll remain in touch with the participants and such. But, um, but I'm here for this, this portion of the work. Um, before we start, do you have any questions for me? No, not that I can think of.

00:01:18.070 - 00:01:24.510

Okay, cool. Um, so we just kind of been starting with, like, if you want to offer. Well, I guess I should give an

00:01:24.510 - 00:01:32.350

introduction to. I'm Beth. I'm a PhD student in anthropology at American University. Um, and, yeah, I got brought into this project with doctor Amanda

00:01:32.350 - 00:01:39.230

Taylor. Um, I also work at a nonprofit in downtown DC, so if I like, seem a little out of it, it's because I've also been working all day.

00:01:39.270 - 00:01:45.790

So, like, half time, like brains not on. Yeah. yeah understand So that's who I am.

00:01:45.830 - 00:01:54.310

If you want to just give a little bit of an introduction to yourself and then how you got involved in, um, the women's program and what your experience was like. Good.

00:01:54.350 - 00:01:58.070

Bad. Great, fantastic. Whatever. Um, that would be a good place to

00:01:58.140 - 00:02:09.700

start. Okay, so I am Robert Conrad. I am currently a practicing attorney. I work at Arnold and Porter in their D.C. office doing

00:02:09.700 - 00:02:25.260

environmental law. Um, I participated in the Wins program, I believe it was summer 2015. Um, and it was my first time in D.C., so, I mean, I like, did the

00:02:25.260 - 00:02:39.420

program flew to DC for the very first time. Uh, great experience. Really like it was impactful to me, I would say in probably a bigger sense even than just the

00:02:40.020 - 00:02:57.460

kind of experience that the program actually gave, but just the experience of kind of coming and living in D.C.. Um, I ended up then transferring to American for a law school, um, and got my acceptance.

00:02:57.460 - 00:03:17.500

I think the week after I left DC from the women's program and then immediately I'm from Oklahoma, so went back to Oklahoma, packed up my apartment in Oklahoma City, and prepared to drive up to here, um, to start my second year of law

00:03:17.500 - 00:03:28.100

school. And I've been here ever since. So, I mean, in my mind, uh, very impactful. It wasn't something that was planned at all.

00:03:28.140 - 00:03:38.020

It just kind of all worked out. Um, but it so far has been has worked out for the best, I would say. Awesome.

00:03:38.020 - 00:03:43.980

Yeah. Um, my best friend and roommate, who's like, one room over, she's from Oklahoma. Um, so.

00:03:44.420 - 00:03:50.340

Yeah, so we've always been saying we need to do a hometown trip, but we haven't made it. I haven't made it over there yet. Um, so.

00:03:50.460 - 00:03:56.690

Yeah, she's she's from Red Oak, Oklahoma. Um, but she went to school in Stillwater.

00:03:56.690 - 00:04:03.450

So, um, she's bounced around. Yeah. She went to undergrad in Stillwater.

00:04:03.610 - 00:04:06.570

Yep. Mhm. That's where I graduated undergrad from.

00:04:06.810 - 00:04:12.650

No way. Oklahoma State. Yeah. Y'all would get along well because she's always, always um

00:04:12.690 - 00:04:16.570

supporting. So yeah. Yeah. Um cool.

00:04:16.570 - 00:04:21.610

Well okay. So if you could that's fantastic introduction. So thank you.

00:04:21.650 - 00:04:29.130

Um, I was wondering if you could speak to so something that's come up a lot in the interviews. And, you know, if this is not the case for you, that's totally fine.

00:04:29.130 - 00:04:37.250

But something's come up. A lot in interviews has been the network that really has emerged for people from wins and like, whether it be friends or professional colleagues, like having that network has really

00:04:37.250 - 00:04:45.930

been like a steady through line through all of the interviews. So be curious if that was the case for you, if you felt like you developed that sort of network through WINS and what that looked like for you.

00:04:46.770 - 00:05:01.000

So I definitely made good friends while I was like in wins and the people who participated. Um, I also knew people that had done ones prior who spoke very highly of the program.

00:05:01.000 - 00:05:12.800

So that was like part of what pushed me to even do the program in the first place. Today, I would say I'm casually in contact with several people that I did the program with.

00:05:13.040 - 00:05:34.730

Um, not in regular contact. Um, but probably the two contacts that I made that were most impactful for me were actually, uh, professor Heather Heckel, who was teaching the one mandatory class that we had to take at AU.

00:05:35.840 - 00:05:48.370

Um, she actually served as one of my recommendations for transferring to American. So she and I still stay in touch. I she, I think is an adjunct or something at AU.

00:05:48.720 - 00:06:02.310

And so I've spoken to her class at least once, uh, recently, like in the past year. Um, and then, uh, Troy Lewis, who was overseeing the program when I started, when I was participating

00:06:02.310 - 00:06:23.150

in the program, I've stayed in touch with him. Um, I mean, he recently graduated from Harvard, so, like, he sent me a, an announcement, like, we've we've stayed in touch. So those two are probably the most impactful, um, people that I've

00:06:23.190 - 00:06:33.070

kind of connected with through the program, which is interesting, um, for it to be kind of like the people that were heading up the program. Um, but a lot of the other, like,

00:06:33.110 - 00:06:44.150

participants, I was the only participant in law school, um, when I did the program. And so, um, I know there's a couple of people who have stayed in the area and are working, like

00:06:44.150 - 00:06:56.780

for the federal government, um, but just not as much, uh, overlap in kind of like what we're doing, um, in our professional lives today. So I haven't stayed in contact

00:06:56.780 - 00:07:04.060

with those people as much. Yeah. That's helpful. Um, it's interesting to see, like,

00:07:04.100 - 00:07:10.620

the range. You know, some people are like, oh, yeah, my professional contacts and some people are like, oh, no, not professional contacts, but my best friend, you know, so there's

00:07:10.660 - 00:07:23.860

like a real range, um, in the ways that, you know, people experience the program. Um, um, I would be curious if you could speak to a little bit, you know, everybody had different

00:07:23.860 - 00:07:33.780

experience in the day to day of the program. So if you can recall, like kind of what that looked like, what your day to day was in the actual program. And if you feel like any of those maybe like skills or, you know,

00:07:33.820 - 00:07:52.260

lessons learned from being in that professional space, um, if that translated to your current role at all. I mean, I think I probably came into the program, uh, in a little bit different place than some I had finished my undergrad degree,

00:07:52.260 - 00:08:06.620

I had a master's degree, and I had worked for two years before starting law school. So, I mean, I had worked, um, so it wasn't kind of the first experience in that regard.

00:08:06.860 - 00:08:23.140

Um, probably logistically, one of the the biggest things was I worked at, uh, the USDA Aphis office in Riverdale, Maryland. So kind of that commute and getting there was a very interesting thing to, like, figure out.

00:08:23.180 - 00:08:40.180

I mean, being from Oklahoma, if you're going five miles, it's going to take you probably five minutes to get there versus in DC, if you're going five miles, it may take you 45 minutes. So, um, that was uh, kind of just an interesting thing to figure out

00:08:40.180 - 00:08:55.250

about this area. I would also say there was one specific experience during my time at Aphis that was very interesting and like very I even think back to it now of like what an odd and

00:08:55.250 - 00:09:07.650

interesting experience it was. But I worked directly under and with, uh, one person, but there were other people in the department who I also kind of worked with, but they weren't

00:09:07.690 - 00:09:16.090

necessarily like overseeing me. One was an older woman who had graduated from law school. She wasn't a practicing attorney.

00:09:16.490 - 00:09:32.370

Um, but she was kind of quirky and interesting. Older woman. Um, but she came to me one day and told me that she had a really bad feeling about me riding the metro

00:09:32.610 - 00:09:49.640

into work the next day, like she had. She had had some sort of, I don't know if it was like a vision or what it was, but she had like a really bad feeling and I should not ride the metro into work the next day.

00:09:50.760 - 00:10:01.800

And so it was like very awkward. And it was like, you don't want to give too much credence to it, but it also is like, you don't know what I don't know.

00:10:01.840 - 00:10:19.000

It was it was an odd experience. But so I asked the man who was actually my supervisor, like, is it possible for me to work from home like, and told him kind of what had happened? And he took that very negatively.

00:10:19.400 - 00:10:39.000

It was like, why would you even ask me that? Why are you giving? Like, why are you believing what she's saying? Like, this is so unprofessional. Um, and like, it showed up in his review of me, um, for like.

00:10:39.040 - 00:10:46.590

Oh, my goodness. Would he recommend me being hired there or working there in the future? Wait.

00:10:46.590 - 00:11:06.550

That's crazy. It was such a crazy, like, just a very, very odd, um, happening. I would say, um, but it also like, I think the lesson that I took away from that was kind of like, I don't think I would do it any

00:11:06.550 - 00:11:14.550

differently. I mean, nothing bad happened. There wasn't anything that, like, negative that happened on the metro that day that was like somehow newsworthy.

00:11:15.230 - 00:11:25.510

But, I mean, it was definitely something I'd like contacted my mom about. And like, this lady said this to me, what should I do? And she's like, don't ride the

00:11:25.510 - 00:11:32.630

metro. Like, worst case scenario, nothing happens. But like you, you shouldn't do

00:11:32.630 - 00:11:49.500

that. So I would say that's kind of like been an interesting lesson in kind of like not everyone, everyone's going to view things similarly to you, or take things as seriously

00:11:49.500 - 00:12:05.860

as you do or that sort of thing, and they may actually view it as a negative or somehow a deficiency in you. Um, and that's okay. That's not your problem.

00:12:06.780 - 00:12:25.220

So no, that's a that's a very, um, very interesting story. And like, I, I appreciate you sharing because I think it's something that, you know, I'm from Louisiana and something that I feel like has been an adjustment for me in D.C. is very much that.

00:12:25.220 - 00:12:39.500

And that, like, people place work as, like the number one priority. And, you know, sometimes that can be reflected in, like telling your employees to ride a metro in a like, you know, what could be a dangerous situation? Like you don't actually know,

00:12:39.700 - 00:12:47.570

right? Right. And that has been an adjustment because I'm like in Louisiana, People like, you know, that work is just not the center of everything.

00:12:47.850 - 00:12:55.530

And and here, that can sometimes be the case. So yeah, I think an important lesson learned for DC especially.

00:12:55.890 - 00:13:02.290

Yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah. Um, great. Well, I just had a couple more questions for you.

00:13:02.410 - 00:13:13.450

Again, like, these are pretty short. Um, one would be if there was, you know, I don't again, I don't really know what's going to come out of this, but if there was future programming, if you have anything in particular that you're

00:13:13.450 - 00:13:18.410

like, oh, that really worked. Well, that was really not the best. Um, maybe, maybe they shouldn't do

00:13:18.410 - 00:13:30.010

that again. Um, you know, anyways, to kind of like, build out some sort of programming or engagement with alumni that would be really productive and helpful for you

00:13:30.010 - 00:13:40.530

guys or other people that might be interested in connecting with, um, people that would be interested in participating in something like ones. So I know, I don't know if it was

00:13:40.530 - 00:13:50.210

actually part of WINS, or if it was, somehow I feel like it was actually part of WINS. There was like a powwow that was hosted at American.

00:13:51.170 - 00:14:08.450

Do you know if that was actually part of the program or if that was kind of like separate, but. You know, I don't know, but I feel like it was a part of it because I'm, I'm like reflecting back on my first initial read of WINS and

00:14:08.450 - 00:14:15.130

like learning about it. And I feel like that was a part of it directly, but I don't want to say. So there was.

00:14:15.490 - 00:14:32.450

That part of the program that I thought was like, really cool to kind of, I mean, you don't get those opportunities in DC a ton that are. I mean, there's like events that happen at the National Museum of

00:14:32.490 - 00:14:43.200

the Native American or American Indian. Um, but it's like it was less of a spectacle and more of like, a real thing, uh, if that makes sense. And so I thought that was really

00:14:43.200 - 00:14:52.160

cool. And something that, I mean, I don't know if, like, American would think about hosting an annual powwow or something like that, but I think that would be

00:14:52.200 - 00:15:09.520

like a good way to kind of like commemorate the program. Um, they also did kind of like a graduation ceremony of sorts. Um, that was kind of cool. Um, and alumni in the area were, I

00:15:09.520 - 00:15:21.800

think, invited to attend that. Um, so I think, I mean, I think there are alumni in the area. I think there are alumni that

00:15:21.800 - 00:15:39.680

would be interested in connecting. Um, but there would just have to be enough time to do like to plan ahead for that and just kind of like, yeah, enough notice and making sure everyone would be

00:15:39.790 - 00:15:52.430

available. I think there would also be some people that would love to like a larger gathering of people. Like even outside of DC, I could see people coming back, um,

00:15:52.430 - 00:16:07.670

because there are a lot of people that have like very fond memories of DC, uh, from the program. So I could see alumni that don't live in DC even wanting to come back and do something like that.

00:16:08.270 - 00:16:11.670

Mhm. Awesome. Um, yeah. That's helpful.

00:16:11.670 - 00:16:25.910

I feel like, um, you know, getting else perspective as people that directly participated is, is useful. Um, regardless of where this heads um so that they can have that to kind of inform next steps.

00:16:26.150 - 00:16:36.230

Um and then okay, so my last question is really just kind of like a general one. It's a twofold one would be if there's anything I didn't ask that you feel like is really important for us to know.

00:16:36.230 - 00:16:46.580

And then if there's one thing related to kind of your experience with WINS or trajectory after WINS that you think is the most important thing for us to know. So if we didn't, if I didn't ask

00:16:46.580 - 00:16:52.740

you anything that you're like, oh, I wish I could have shared that. Or if there's something that you're like, you really need to know this. Walking away from the

00:16:52.740 - 00:17:08.740

conversation. Um. I'm trying to think. I mean, like I said, I feel like the program was pretty transformative for me.

00:17:09.340 - 00:17:19.260

Uh, just coming from small town Oklahoma. Uh, I went to school in Stillwater, and then I went to school in Raleigh, North Carolina.

00:17:19.260 - 00:17:33.140

So both pretty southern. Uh, if you want to call Oklahoma Southern, um, experiences. So being able to be in DC really

00:17:33.140 - 00:17:50.170

allowed me to have a different experience that I'd never had before, but also be more comfortable with myself. Um, even with my sexuality, I am a gay man, and so I was not out when I came to DC.

00:17:50.930 - 00:18:07.810

But the experience of being in DC and seeing the openness of people, uh, definitely is one of the things that drew me to stay here, but also just kind of allowed me to be more comfortable being me.

00:18:08.330 - 00:18:17.890

Um, and so probably bigger picture. That's one of the bigger things that came out of the entire experience, is just kind of that

00:18:17.890 - 00:18:33.530

comfort level with myself. Um, outside of that, I can't think of anything like anything with the program that was that I can think of that was like, really noteworthy.

00:18:33.570 - 00:18:42.010

I mean, again, I think. a lot of the program and a lot of the connection was just kind of being in this new space, in a new setting.

00:18:42.050 - 00:18:57.530

Obviously, you're bringing people mostly from rural areas into a more urban setting, and like they're experiencing that for the first time together. I mean, it's a very bonding experience, um, which I think is

00:18:57.850 - 00:19:06.890

important. And then also being able to have something of substance to put on your resume is like really a boost for people.

00:19:07.130 - 00:19:21.930

Um, because the placements, I mean, having a government agency and working in DC for a government agency, having that on your resume is like a big deal, uh, for any student.

00:19:22.090 - 00:19:35.880

So awesome. Um, well, that feels like a good way to close out. Um, so thank you so much for your time and for, you know, offering, sharing your stories and your experiences.

00:19:35.880 - 00:19:43.160

This has been really, um, you know, interesting for me to participate. So, um, I'm excited to, to be able to connect with you.

00:19:43.400 - 00:19:59.680

Um, and let's see next. So, um, like I said, we'll kind of stay in touch. Is this, um, I'm not sure if I will remain on the project beyond the interviews, but regardless, my plan is to kind of touch base with

00:19:59.680 - 00:20:09.480

everyone that we do interview and just say like, hey, I'm staying on and these are next steps, or hey, I'm leaving and these are next steps, so you can contact so you can make sure you're in the loop in case you want to follow back up.

00:20:09.600 - 00:20:22.200

Um, so yeah, you'll hear from me in the next few weeks. We're just, you know, we're, uh, continuing interviews. So I can't gauge exactly how long it will be. But you will definitely hear from me at some point in the next, you

00:20:22.200 - 00:20:27.000

know, month or so. Um, and if you have any questions for me, feel free to follow up. Sounds great.

00:20:27.000 - 00:20:31.280

Thank you so much for your time. All right. Thank you very much. Have a good day.

00:20:31.560 - 00:20:32.600

You too. Bye.