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It's doing it. Okay. My name is Jamie Sanders and today I'll be talking to Rogelio Meixueiro? Meixueiro. Meixueiro, Thank you. Today is October 13th 2020 and we are conducting this interview online on Their Story and we will be discussing more Helios involvement in Black Lives Matter protest in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Mostly focusing on the series of protests erupted earlier this year after the death of George Floyd. So do I have your permission to record this interview? Yes. first,

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we're going to start with some bio questions. So for a little bit of background, where are you from? I'm originally from Mexico, from Oaxaca Mexico, the South, but it was born in Dallas. So I've been living here in the city for about eight years now. Cool. Can you tell me a little bit about the area next week where you're from? Yes. I am from the very south. So it is a valley really warm weather. We don't really get cold around there a lot of rain, but it's a it's actually like a small town. It's a city still, but it's a small town. So community and local are really something that you can experience every day over there. They consider this I believe is the state that consists. The most amount of the has the most amount of diversity and has preserved the most amount of original culture and traditions. So those things are very important. That's

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really cool. Do you think that diversity and community kind of shape the kind of person that you became? I think so, I think even growing up in Mexico, especially in Oaxaca have shaped the way I even act in the way I interact with society around me. That's really cool. Okay. Can you tell me about your family? Yeah sure thing. Well my parents met in college. They are on their 50s now and my dad is an electrician my mom. A teacher at a time and a secretary. They created their own business. So they focus on putting electricity all over my state when I was younger. I have three siblings, two older sisters, and one younger. We all are really independent and very opinionated. So my older sister for example is an artist and / architect. She focused he lives in Portugal and she focuses on like restaurants and Hospitality. The second one is a musician and she's also a bit more into politics. And then myself I'm studying environmental sciences and I'm an activist and for my younger sister she's a veterinarian and she loves animals. Oh,

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that's nice. Yeah, it's pretty close. We are we try to talk everything. That's really cool. Do they live with you or they like in Mexico? My oldest one lives in Portugal in this one. My second sister lives in Mexico City. My third one lives in Oaxaca with my parents. How does your family feel about your activism? My sisters are more involved in they know more what I'm doing than my parents they feel honestly, they-my sister's encouraged me. We since we were raised my mom and my dad would always they still like they put this principles with us and we grew up around. I mean, we're Native American so we grew up around, you know, indigenous people we grew up in the town and I seen all this diversity and then we have the opportunity to move to the city and even come to the America. We would always speak for them. Right? We would always kind of save us but a place for them and they encourage my activism especially because they know the reason I do it for. That's

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really cool - can you tell the principles a little more that your you were raised on? Mhmm. So one of the main ones was really just the idea of self and idea of home - we - since we were young we would always be encourage - we will always be encouraged to take care of ourselves that came from like what we ate, you know, exercising drinking plenty of water. For example, my parents often wouldn't let us drink soda, but in a way that would always kind of like encourage us to drink water. I start cooking since I was like seven or eight we were all we're all supposed to cook before 12. So I learned how to cook my own meals. I learn a lot about food and since a very young age. And then when I mean by the importance of home, we learned that our body and the world around us is our home. So we take care of both of those, as I mentioned with our body, but when it comes to the planet, we've always been environmentalist. We've always been around animals and outdoors. So we've always learned to protect like sacred things, you know, like the land the water resources. Do you think that's why - part reason why you guys are more involved in social justice because you're track? I think so. I think from a very young age. We had the opportunity to see - the we actually had the opportunity to live different like economic circumstances and when The War on Drugs hit Mexico it definitely - it change, it change many things and was growing up with those values shape who we are today. This

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really cool. Can you talk a little bit more about your childhood for me? Well, I was in Oaxaca and I was 15 and during my childhood I was always outdoors. My parents had land, my parents have land. So I was spending most of the time outdoors with the dogs and the horses. We actually grew up with horses and I would clean their I would clean their homes. I kinda get used to doing the hard work since early age. I had an affinity for trees. So I would constantly climb trees. Do tree houses, learn from them, and grow more plants and everything. I like nature a lot. So that was an important part of my life. We grew up in the city Oaxaca which is about in the middle of the state five hours away driving from the coast, but we would often go to the coast where my mom's from and I love going to the ocean. I'm a swimmer so I swim a lot and its really nice to be around there. That's really cool. Can you tell me a little bit about your early experiences with the police - we're like a shifting gears a little bit. I'm sorry? Um

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shifting gears a little bit. Can you tell me about some of your early experiences with the police where those positive or negative? So in Mexico's I didn't really have many experiences with the police, the public security there is super corrupt. So really police security is what we are trying to in a way get here, which is a bit more communal base. We trust them more our neighbors then we did cops. So anytime something happen in our neighborhood. There were certain people in the neighborhood that we trusted, that they have cameras, or they were maybe in the corner of the street. So that was really my my police and in Mexico, there's this thing that if cops stopped you, you could just give them some money and they will let you go. So I never really had an incident with police there since when we talk about defunding the police - all you have to do is look at Mexico because the police there is definitely not funded. The moment I got here around 15, 16. I have my first encounters with American police, which was completely different. Can you talk to me more about the difference between the American police from the Mexican police? Hmm, as I said, it's a little bit less structure over there. I just think it's a bit more corrupt when it comes to America - I know it's corrupt too however, it's in a different way. I feel like here there's this pride for the police officers and the army - this sense of security. Even you know, it's just a simple fact of seeing them walk around you near you. But the moment I move here, they even just showing up to the airport the way they act here was a lot different. There were a lot more authoritarian looking. You couldn't even look at them in the eyes, that kind of thing, you know like that sense, but the main difference was that when I came to America, I was in a way finally categorized because in Mexico being Brown, being Moreno - like we call it - colorism is a bigger thing than racism there, of course, it's still there. But we all experience colorism there, to the point that there was really no black people in my school, right? So weird experience in the idea of like how Brown you are, how why you are and getting here and getting to know Black people getting to know White people like, you know, like Mexicans and Mexican-Americans. I was finally label because after that I actually got pulled over by a cop about three or four months after I moved to America. What

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was that experience like? Um, uncomfortable. I didn't really know English at the time. So I just remember not being able to express myself to the officer. And I also remember getting really nervous because at the time when you don't know much of the police, which is honestly it's true, but in our eyes the police and ICE are the exact same thing. So any time we will see a cop or an officer, we would think it was ICE and to be honest. Maybe our paperwork was fine, but the simple fact that we have this idea that they will deport us will scare us so I would feel scared. I understand that. So kind of shipping to more like a more a little bit more about your childhood again, but this time focusing on school. How was, what was school like for you? School was good. It was - a school in Mexico was not really like it was... I went to a Catholic school. So over there even though you were still learning all this like Catholic principles and same goes for the public schools. They're not like Catholic but they teach all these principles, right and I feel like it was in as since you wear a uniform it was not like as welcoming for different experiences and different opinions, but I do believe that education there was more advanced in a way. I do remember having ethics class and even social social - how do you translate that? Well, basically just how to act around humans. Early on, I was probably in elementary school/middle school. I know we have sexual education classes early on too so I learn you know all my sexual basics and elementary school and middle school. We started learning about like STI, STDs, ways of contracting it which is different from Texas because here I learned that in my health class and my junior college class. Yeah,

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they don't really have really good sex ed here. So you're in college now, right? I am. Can you tell me about that experience? Mmm. Well, I really like it. I feel like you would always like, I would always watch movies and people will go to college and it was just such an accomplishment. Now that I'm in college. I definitely have a different opinion on it. But I like it, I go to UTA. I was planning on going to UTR-Austin after I graduated, but I couldn't afford that nor any other school so I came to UTA, I've been here for about four years now and I'm in the middle of my degree since I changed degrees twice. What

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was the first? So I started with computer and computer science. I switched to civil in electrical engineering and now I've decided to do environmental sciences / environmental engineer. So. Yeah sounds more up your alley, you know, environment. Hey, it took time, but I like where I am now so it works. Yeah.

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Do you have like a job or anything like that or you just focusing on school? I wish, I have been working-I've been working since I moved here. Right now, I work. I just quit my server job. So at the moment and I do phone banking for Our Revolution, Texas. So is that like a social justice organization? Yes, it was started during the Bernie Sanders campaign. Our Revolution is a Progressive Progressive group and they focus on just promoting candidates. They work really close with the Working Families party. Okay,

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cool. That's that's really interesting, I need to look that up. So how does activism fit in with your like daily life? So I think honestly at this point activism is what I do every single day. There's no an hour that I don't think about like a new idea or a new thing that I can jump on, right? Because the moment you start submerging yourself into this community and start to talk to the community members. You start finding out all this issues, right? There are not just happening to you but rather happening to many people around you so activism really just became my way of living. That's really that's really interesting. I'm sorry. I keep saying that but I am interested. Does it affect your like relationship with your friends or significant others or anything like that? Um, it definitely has. I feel like you know fix all my relationships because since I was, I mean, since I was young, I knew I wanted to be involved and I knew I wanted to do something that's just never really knew how or what to do and something that maybe our generation suffers is a idea of like I want to save the world like I'm gonna do this, right? And they want to do something but then we finish college with that. We finish college and we are you know, like going to a job that makes us miserable. So I mean not for all of us, but I do think it has shaped even my decisions. For example, I don't really care about being rich. I don't really care about, you know, like I mean any of those material things all I want is really concerned is my community and be the best person I can be right and like through activism I can do. I can share my my true self and I can just help people while learning from others. That's

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a really good perspective on activism. So like with the people in your life, are they involved in activism as well? I know David is. So the people in my life are. So, uh in the service industry often the people that do the work in the service industry are in a like in a loop. They constantly shows, wake up., they go to work, and make money, and then they spend it. And sadly, it's a paycheck to paycheck thing because you pay bills this week, but next week you're not for certain that you're going to have the money for those bills. Sadly, you have to pick up more shifts, work more hours, smile at more tables, right? So it's a constant cycle, and it's very demanding because it's hard to ask yourself to be happy, is hard to as yourself to be the best server every single table, you know, so snuggly, I'm thankfully, I'm leaving the service industry, but my circle and got my environment in the service industry was not very helpful because many of the people that work in service industry, at least talking from experience in Dallas, are really involved with drinking, recreational drugs, and sadly like a bad like sleeping schedule. They don't really go to school or accomplish their school. So I had to change my circles and actually I started searching for-I start searching for new-new influences in my life. And David was one of them. Actually we're with the Bernie campaign. So we talk often about different issues. We're both feminist. So we love discussing. That but eventually I did change my group and now I actually created my own group and to the point that they started organizing with me. That's really cool. So you, your friend group works with you to not only achieve better notes for the world but also for yourself. Yeah. Am I, so my group of friends, as I said with the servers we'll be just -I mean it's being recorded but who cares, legalize marijuana! We used to just sit and smoke a blunt and just talk and complain about things in Ohcliff or our neighborhood, but we would never do anything about it. We would simply shows, you know, like talk about how miserable job was, how tired we were, how much money we made, and how many issues we had in our community. So the moment we stopped, the moment - we at least, I realized that we had to stop complaining and start doing something is a moment. I decided to change that, right? We focus on organizing and with the time every new person that I brought to my group, it wasn't just a friend to talk to, but rather it was a future person to organize with so yeah, okay.

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Um, so shifting gears a little bit more to more about like the subject matter. So tell me about your first memories of race in general. You kind of mentioned colorism in Mexico. Can you talk a little bit more about that? So I would say a very vivid example of like race and like interaction that I have with it since young was my school performances or school theater performances in Mexico, since it was a private institution I went to, we would do like a Virgin Mary presentation. Right? Or we would do like a little Jesus and you know getting on the cross and everything. So I remember being asked to be the ray mago which is like the magic king, right. Jesus had three of them they brought him gold and incienso and like there's a probably something else. I think gifts. Christmas. Yeah, but I recall that one of them was Black and since in the pictures, you know, like he was the darkest one and in my school there was nobody that color. I remember them just assigning me that role. I remember one time me asking to be Jesus, you know, in the presentation and I was like eight and I remember being told no, because Jesus is a bit lighter skin, but you can be that apostle, you know, you can be the one that is darkest so you know, it began there. It began with no questioning rather just doing it because I wanted to be part of it, but sadly teachers and even parents were kind of like sharing that without noticing. After I grew up a bit more, my second interaction was really just with my, my, the students from my classroom. And being a bit more indigenous would like make fun of it. And once again this was in the idea that once Black people are not really in a room. They're going to go for whoever's next, which is going to be, you know, like Brown people or Indigenous people and I think that's just how they do it with me. I just would be like the one being bullied right? So I feel like I way to deal with that. I just had some I mean, you know, like take ownership of it. I mean, I was just proud, proud like my family, where they come from, so even I would welcome it because it wouldn't hurt, right? To be indigenous to be proud of that. But yeah, honestly it was there and then when it comes to America, it was really the moment I got here. Uh, the moment I got to America I went to my counselor and I didn't know much English and I remember being told pretend that you do or try to like rehearse some phrase so I didn't put on ESL. They still did. I do not remember them even asking me a question. I remember them just reading my name and then, you know, assigning me to English as a second language with the other group. So I think I experienced racism and I got a chance to see it myself there since that group is full of individuals that could do so much, but they was just not given the chance. You know. Why

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did you want to avoid getting into ESL? Oh, um, I was trying to avoid that really because especially like the people that move here, sometimes that becomes like a hole that you cannot escape. Sometimes that becomes a hole where like your classes go a bit slower since everything is online but in the school, you don't get a teacher, you just get a person appointed to 20 kids in a classroom. And yeah, you could get a tutor, but everything you do is like dumb down. So for example, if your class is algebra, they make it as simple as possible or they since they have to translate it too, it kind of slows you down and they didn't - at least with me and with many of my friends - they never even checked what our level was when it came to math, English, anything like that, they seem pushes us doing, right? And it was after three months in ESL that they switch me back into like regular classes because I'm going through this. Yeah, you know, I never actually knew how those classes were set up until you told me just now so that was enlightening. I remember meeting a lot of students even helping us during the class because the students would show up, you know to help out since often the person in charge of the ESL classroom was just a substitute teacher. So

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yeah, okay. So now I'm going to go on to activism. So how many protons have you been to? If you know - I'm sorry. I said if you can remember how many. I don't know to be honest, quite a bit. Um wait, what was the last one you've been to? The very last one I went to was, um, it was the Breonna Taylor. The day of the ruling for Breonna Taylor's case, a Wednesday. We also spread up to City Hall. The the protest was organized by We Take the Streets, a group creating in Dallas after George Floyd who was murdered and Not My Son, another group created by moms. We joined them and we protested for about two hours. Okay.

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So how did you find out about that particular protests? So about all of those protests actually, in the Dallas area, doing the-once it all started there was a few people that were able to gather information and post it on their social media. There's three of them that we base most of our information from. One of them is based in Tarrant County, one of them in Dallas, and then the other it's I believe they live in Southlake, but they're kind of all around. And they post, ah try to post every week like some information about follow-up protests and events. So that's how we found out. So do you remember how that first protest felt? Mmm, I do have some videos. Yes, it was, so the first protest was actually like so meaningful because it was right after George Floyd's murder and I remember the pandemic was hitting so everyone was super concerned about that still. Many people were still arguing whether it was a thing or not and we were just on the prime, I think when people were like finally like when people are forced to shut down and I remember they happen I was working and even talking to my co-workers it was like y'all saw the video? and like I remember this, people like they'd cry, you know, they're in the shifts just kind of talking about it and that night, I do remember hearing there was a protest in downtown going on and last Black Lives Matter protests I attended. Well, I didn't even get to get I didn't even get to march because by the time I was getting over David was there and there was some gunshots. So this one, I knew, I knew was going to be big. I knew because like, you know, like I mean, how do you expect to see the video and not protest? So I just two three friends my group with David too and we showed up the next day. I showed up every day for that week and then I started, I remember like my job close, so I didn't have to do that and I started going like that every like three or four days a week. So,

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so I assume that you saw the video if you're comfortable. Do you want to tell me how made you feel when you saw it? Well, I saw many videos and I feel like that's why bother me, you know, I feel like I didn't really even watch the whole video because once I start seeing the beginning it was already, you know, like it was enough for me to like ... that was just enough because I saw too many videos and I remember the one having prior to that. What was the one that had been prior to that because I remember... I'm sad to say that they happen so often I can't remember. Yeah. Well, I remember that about a week prior to it. There was another incident and I remember just thinking okay. So I've I've read a lot about movements. Right. And the one I read about the most is the Chicano movement which exploded right after the Black Lives Panther movement as a kind of coalition too. There was some issues with Chicano movement still that even myself are trying to change now, people like me are tying to change now, but the main thing that I read from the Chicano movement was that people just had enough, to the point that they had to organize they didn't really like, you know like, it was, it was a necessity - it was a necessity for us to be connected and to be united. So apart of me - like I hate to say I saw it coming because with the amount of guns we have in this country and they, you know, that the things are police department gets to do and not become accountable for. I sadly I hate to say this but like I knew was going to happen again and I even hate saying this, but like I know it will happen again and the worst part about that is that I... I do like a fire right? Like I push myself to every day feel like I did a bit more, right? Yeah. So

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can you tell me about a little bit more in detail about those initial protest that you went to after George Floyd's death? Yes. So the first protests they were very disorganized. I remember showing up and bringing my, my flyers bringing my, my protest signs, but I remember showing up and noticing how A.) everyone was all over the place. Nobody was a kind of under a direction like the direction of nobody else. I remember you can see here and there are few leaders, but they often have their own group and it was like an organization already. So a lot of people will follow them, but I would dare to say that 80% of the people in the protests they would just scream what the rest of the crowd would scream, they would just follow where the rest of the, you know, crowd will go. So I remember showing up and being on this side because of covid - people were not really wearing their masks. Some of them were just not you know, like they didn't really care, but I do remember it was full. Of people there was a lot of disorder and there was definitely a lot of opinions and feelings because most of people that show up wanting to just be an ally to show up to the protest and be there for other people, but I feel like... and I even I didn't really like this - we were expecting Black leaders to take over, people were expecting young Black people to take over and some of them wanted to be there. You know, they were not being asked to be put on the front and start yelling and, you know, the protest. So um, it was like no. No it was this awkward moment of like, where do we go? Who do we follow? Type of thing? And I was just going with the crowd, but after a few weeks, I was one of the first ones to start talking more with the leader in those protests so we could have more of a unified message. Okay, cool. So is that...was the disorganization something that you could, you would say, was a problem at the beginning? Do you think that problem is gone now? I really think the main problem was... like ah, it was just a consistency. Many people would show up. Right and most of the time it was really just like I can't breathe and that was an initial message. We have a problem this country that we have to address and I feel like many people were there for that, but it was just a week later, right, that people started like adding other things. So I believe that if somebody like the Black Lives Matter movement - the national chapter - would've maybe just like send a message or have somebody in the process giving their message maybe would have a bit more unified but I think that shows really comes from the fact that there was so many emotions and so many people it exploded, you know, so even if you organize the process you couldn't handle it because there was definitely a hundred-a hundred fifty people marching behind you. And I mean, I think it went well, but at the beginning we had a lot of issues because many of these leaders didn't know the rules, didn't really know where to go. So, many times they would just say, oh, let's stop the highway and people would follow them and then we will have issues with the law. Right? Then you got to the point that since they didn't know what to do. Sometimes just a random person would say, hey, let's go through that bridge not knowing that on the other side, it was a residential area. So you were going to be uh now, you know, stopped. You were going to be...yeah, whatever happened with the mini Bridge. Yeah,

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is that what kind of what-what made-what the happened on the bridge happen? Yes, I believe that protests David wasn't there. I actually got lucky enough that I left 20 minutes before getting on the bridge. I'm remember walking towards the bridge and then just leaving with a friend because we had to go eat. We were protesting for like four hours by then and 30 minutes later, an hour later, we got a call from so many of them just telling us what was happening, you know. I believe one organization started that protest and they broke and became two of them, one-some going uptown, some going to the bridge and the ones going through a bridge organize the original event, many other people follow them and they we know there was just, you know, taking them to a trap. So you mentioned the disorganization of the initial process. Is there any other issues you have with like these protests or some other protests later on that you didn't really support? Well I didn't say didn't support but an issue was definitely the riots, an issue was the people creating the image for the Black Lives Matter movement. If you were an ally, you will just show up, you were told to wear black and bring up a protest sign. We - there were many people at first trying to help, but even being an ally was not something that they knew how to do because often than not they will show up and be like, yes! Black Lives Matter!, but then they were trying to take the narrative themselves and it wasn't for them to. Like they will be the ones to- like and look, nothing against white people that want to be there for us, but often than not I would see - I mean more now, not as much at the beginning - I would see a lot of White people and it's lovely to have them there as allies but then they will go to the front themselves and they will start saying things. And you know I'm saying like when you have a white cop and a white protestor just talking back to each other to see who cares more. I don't have a solution there. It's just two people arguing. Right? And that's often the case that happen - many of these people were showing up simply because they wanted to cause some trouble and when I say abolish ICE, I've read enough make sure I did my, you know, I chose this stance for a reason. So if someone means is well, I disagree with that - let's talk about it. But when someone, some people in that protest would say something like - not even defund the police that early on - but rather like fuck the police, right, or they would say things like I don't know ang-angry things. Often they would just grab rocks and put them on their packets and I and I would see them and these were teenagers, you know, people that - let's be honest - they didn't care, they got nothing going on at the time. They were in a quarantine. Their school was closed, their job probably closed down. They were getting their unemployment check, so they have nothing to lose and that's what bothered me. It bother me that they would put the face of rioting to all of us when many protests, peaceful protests, would leave by 7 or 9-8 p.m. You know, we were all home because we started at 5 p.m. But whoever went to cause trouble and stay 10 p.m. And it only took one of them, you know. So

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you use the word writing, um, is that an accurate term for what you witness with the violence and stuff like that? Explain what rioting means to you? *sighs* Well with the riots, I don't blame them. Look, if there was anybody protesting about the death of George Floyd - I do not blame them if they wanted to burn Walmart on fire and they went to steal from all these companies. I'm sorry, you know some like I - they're angry like I mean, I am so sorry for like, no I do not blame them for that. I feel like it's about time. They wanted to make sure that people knew and pay attention. You know, I may not agree as much that way they did it, but they did it like this, right? I like riots when they're needed, when they, when our government is not paying attention. Right now for example, we're having a big issue with ICE and with the sterilizations they're causing women - they're doing to woman - now, they're coming up a lot more issues with them trying to deport immigrants and forcing them to do that. So if they don't do anything, you know, like if things don't change, I would riot too because I want them to pay attention, you know, you know, like when there's no other option, I mean, but I'm not suggesting we should all right. I do think people need to try to find the common ground first, right? But I didn't have an issue with the riots going on simply because I personally didn't care, but often than not they will be the only thing people talked about and he bother me many times. The protests were so well organized. We will have an hour and a half of people just speaking from their hearts, sharing poetry, sharing song, sharing, you know, everything sharing themselves to the community and the cameras would only capture them throwing rocks or they would only capture them yelling at each other. When but - you don't - what they wouldn't realize and they wouldn't show is that we were all humans and we were all there is just you know, like because we were tired they never talked about that sadly. But yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit more about media coverage of the protests? Sure. It went either - it went both sides. I feel like this media that is trying to go against our president right now and the media there is more like, you know, like he's a problem and I hate him. We all should that's about media kind of portrayed it as like, oh, well, this is happening. What should we do? Because we're not going to show up and walk with them right there was just and many times this media like, you know reporters, they would just show up to take their pic-our picture and then they would leave because none of them could stay there to walk with us right even of them were scared and when they started shooting the media when they start like when the riots began, you know, many of them were there for the pictures but they really want to stay for anything else. So it matter a lot who it was because mainly there was definitely some people other like *inaudible* is one of them they would often be in the protests walking with us, you know, like asking people their opinion and I like I like that more trying to do our job right but then when you go to Fox News, so when you go to the media does not like you to be there at all. The coverage that the gave us it was truly just like you are the devil, right? You are destroying everything that we know. And the one that bother me the most was when they put us against us because they would place me, like they would go to the one Latino conservative in *inaudible* and ask him, Oh you hate this, right? and he would be like, yes, I'm all Black Lives Matter, but why would the destroy my business!?, right? It happened with my folks that have their own business. I mean, you know, honestly they were all paying a rent too, you know? They don't own those, like those, places in *inaudible*, no, my opinion, yeah it bother me. Do

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you want to talk about the police like reaction to the protest? Hmm oof. So this was interesting because... if I was confused I cannot imagine how they felt. I'm not, you know, I'm not saying anybody-I'm not telling anybody like feel sorry for the cops, you know, at the same time, you would see a lot of this cops right and you could tell they had never experienced that before like I like to think that any public servant is going into their job because they want to serve the public. However many of these people were just there and they were seen the amount especially of younger protesters right? Screaming at their faces. Like there will be times where I had to like stand in front of a cop, simply because they were five people behind me just yelling at the cop in their face and I would only do that because I was like, you do not want to get arrested, you understand like tell them whatever you want, tell them whatever you want, just do not touch them. Do you know I'm saying? because I knew exactly that the moment they touch them they would get in trouble and in a way the cops were waiting for that. The cops heard all these things, right, they heard, they hear that every protest we scream fuck 12 they know that we do not like them, they know that we want to defund them which ultimately means yeah, we want their jobs like, you know, we don't want so many cops. So it's a threat to them and whether they agree with what happened or not to George Floyd, I don't think the chance to choose after that because sadly we went - the message shifted from look up what's happened to Black people to let's talk about the police and the moment defund the police became the word, you know, like the chant of the movement, it kind of brought all these meanings and messages that not many people were sure about because for them defunding should man really like, you know, like take a bit of money away. Can you tell me since you mentioned it what defund the police means to you? For me defund the police means abolish the police. Defund the police means less -- truly, this has not work. It is obvious that is not working and is very disproportional when we talk about systemic, it is a systemic issue, when the budget in the city of Dallas, it's 60% only for public safety and let's talk about public safety because there's many ways of achieving that. When 60 percent of the budget is not only for public safety, but rather for the cops in public safety, the police department in public safety, there's an issue because not only are we idolizing. You know, I'm saying like are we idolizing this positions of power, like a cop, but we're also a standing behind them without even hearing what happen. You know, like the moment we're giving them so much money we're giving them the power. I think there's that joke of like I own 51% of this company. They do, you know, like they own our budget and they control it anywhere they want to and I think that even the police movement was very successful because it's simply highlighted all those people that hide behind the cops, it highlighted all the hypocrisy that is in our government, especially in our members because the moment they voted for increasing the budget of the police department they show where the interest is. Okay.

00:40:15.600 - 00:43:13.800

So what would like a world with like the police department abolished look like to you? Lovely. So we do need answers. I cannot claim I do have all the answers, but I have an idea and a world without - a world where we abolish the police, sadly, it is not possible in the near future. But if we will get there, I think it's a process that where we start tailoring how we're dealing with this. Hmm. I think a world with abolishing the police would mean a world where we start reimagining what public safety really mean. When we start reimagining what like our society and our community truly means needs. I think it's gonna be a world where we start tackling the issues the cops have to deal with, right? What's the main one? I believe will be poverty, but it's truly a world where we start looking at the root of the problem rather at the ramifications. Yeah, they're coming out of it, you know? Okay, cool. I'm going to go back a little bit. Well like back for me because I have a little thing but um, so we talked about George Floyd, but I want to ask what do you think made George Floyd's death like different from the rest because his death seem to like set off a switch or something. I think what made us so impactful was ... uh, I took - I really think it was just like the human aspect of it. We are presenting this image of the villain, represented the image of the bad guy, right? And this time around, I think we were not presented the villain running, stealing, and then being punished by the cops, but rather we were presented the punishment and the moment we saw the punishment people were able to realize and observe - why, do you know like and they start wondering? Why are we punishing these men, right? And it is not even matter hearing what he did because I don't think anyone's just have to be punished that way. I really feel like it was just the human aspect of it the fact that he was screaming for his mom, the fact that he would say things like, you know, something you're going to kill me. It's nerve-racking because it shows-it shows how in America, we know it's coming. And sadly, we're in that spot we going to fear. You feel fear. I could feel the fear that he was feeling and I could feel - oof this is awful - like I could feel the frustration of just having somebody doing something and you repeatedly asking them not to, begging them not too. I think he was just like making... it was he's finally a human. People are finally able to see a man on the ground a human on the ground. Not just a black man, you know. Thank

00:43:13.800 - 00:45:47.200

you. That was really good answer - shifting to another person who unfortunately passed away because of the police, Breonna Taylor. You mentioned going to a protest after the decision. How do you feel about the decision that came out not too long ago? In all honesty. I didn't go to memorials for Breonna Taylor well at the least the ones that were, you know, they Breonna Taylor protests or were marching for her. I attend the more those. At first it was hard for me to even go out but after seeing how even, you know, our society was treating the case for Breonna, like it was important for us to show up even more for Black women in this country. With her it was just meaningful because of that because I feel like - I'm not saying that there's Floyd got Justice in any way- but I just think like even the attention of the media, you know, there's her case and not even her case, like it's really like all of them Sandra and even like a Tatiana Jefferson here in DFW may be portrayed that in the way we treated that if you know that incident shows how much hierarchical society still is and how we still are all- like in Mexico we call machistas - you know sadly we still have a lot of machistas in this society still. MM, so in your opinion often black women who died this way tend to get forgotten? Yeah. Yeah, they tend to be forgotten and sadly. I feel like in a way...I mean nothing. I mean, come on like I don't want anybody dying, but I did notice even even with the Black Lives Matter Movement. We will show up to protest right and this is not happening to me but I happen to someone very close to me. That told me in Austin. There were planning. There was a Black Lives Matter protests and he is a big advocate for Black Trans lives matter and they organized this of that process. They kept screaming say his name, you know, and they would they did include a say her name sometimes but then it was like black lives matter, black woman matter and then my friend went and asked them, Hey can we also chant for Black Trans lives matter? and the organizers denied. So I feel like that also highlighted a bit. You know, I mean, it's really it's just a matter of like ...we need to start paying attention to women trans women too and we need to start, you know, like putting them in the front really and treating this with more severity. Yeah,

00:45:47.200 - 00:49:00.100

so now I want to talk about stuff that's kind of Dallas specific - you seem to be connected a lot of local Dallas social justice organization. So what are some of the Texas Board issues that you think should be addressed? I think the main issue that we need to address as a country is healthcare. Really. I think that should be a priority. It's upsetting to see our candidates not even talk about healthcare in the presidential debates - not even mention it like just a small part, you know, because we know their stance on it. It is a shame that the president was in power for four years and he didn't in the even dare to give us an idea of what his health care plan was. All that we know is that it was better than Obama's. So it goes to show that they do not care because it's clearly working for them. It is clearly working for them because they get the money from those businesses; Big Pharma is still gives money to their campaigns. So, I do think Health Care needs to be one of the main issues we talked about in this country, health care for all. And I think another really big issue is that we need to address is the economic. A lot of people do care about like the economy and I feel like they are voting because that's one of the big reasons they're voting, but I feel like we need to address wages, especially in Texas as a state that is so rich and it's honestly like we have so much. It is a shame that we do not have higher wages and that people have to - people that work 40 50, 60 hours a week cannot even afford an apartment. So how do you think those issues kind of connect with like the police brutality in Texas, especially? In Texas, especially well, at least Texans were not even hypocrite enough to say oh black lives matter and not do anything about it. They were simply blatantly like they didn't even say black lives matter ...they didn't pander, right? Because we know their stance, they don't really care for them. The system is working and they're going to continue doing this. So when it comes to Texas, I do think that if black lives matter, they need to give us better health care. If black lives matter, they need to give us their jobs. They need to, you know, like they truly need to start fixing things up because when you, when you're living in a country and we're because like, I mean, I'm there to say that, you know, if there was any Indigenous person that like was leaving this country had to suffer through some sort of this issue when you're living in a country and you are being treated 3/5th of somebody else or you are just being like pushed to the side in your small little corner and when you give those people freedom, but you don't necessarily make sure that they receive the same equality, you know, in all aspects - you're not really making them free. And I would dare to say that now we're still in slave of wages. We're still enslaved of taxes. You know, for students we're enslave to college tuitions and if you graduate and you don't have a college degree, you don't really get a good job. So I mean, I do think it kept going and it's an issue that we need to address - issues that we need to address. Okay,

00:49:00.100 - 00:52:45.000

so just to clarify, where do you attend most of your protests? Like in the Dallas area or like any of the different like towns and stuff like that in the Metroplex? Sadly most of the protests, and the successful protests, have been in Dallas because of the fact it's a bit more democratic, a.k.a progressive/progressive, but I know I have attended one in Weatherford for the removal of the Confederate Monument, Terrant (?) County, have attended one in downtown, Fort Worth. and I've also attended one in Mykini (?) Okay. Um, so, you know like the recently the Dallas Police Department's Police chief step down. What do you think about that? I attended this, attended this event for the memorial of Santos Rodriguez. Santos was a kid that was killed in Little Mexico which is uptown area. This happened about 47-, well, this happened exactly 47 years ago from this last July 27, and with Santo Rodriguez I don't now if you are familiar with the killing, but he was killed by the police chief at the time so it was very meaningful because about seven years ago, I believe, the Dallas police chief at the time apologize and like, you know, they like a public statement for Santos mom, but we haven't done anything in return for her all the city really was it show up every year and say yes we care about you around people. This is why we're here, you know? So the police chief showed up, Chief (inaudible), this was about two weeks after we all were demanding her resignation. This was two weeks after the bridge. So people were upset and they were ready to be like tackle her on that issue and sadly even that event that was in our - that was created for us to honor the death of you know, like a Mexican American kid at the hands of a police chief - became an event surrounded a cop, the chief (inaudible) she was sitting on, the event was in English, Santos's Mom doesn't even speak English. The event which is catered to Chief Hall (?) and it was simply because people were angry, right? And they find out that Chief Hall was going to be there. So they prepared speeches and everything, but it bothered me that even the media showed up just because Chief Hall was gonna be there. So sorry, but like, well then, I don't even care that she was there. I think the generation before me was okay, at the time, with having a Black chief leader, you know, and being able to - I mean chief Hall's mom was very influential with the Black leaders in Dallas - so I know they respected each other. But in all the older, the older leaders when they spoke, you know in the memorial. They were respectful to Chief Hall, the respective like that she was a Black woman leading that and she did take some actions, you know, to make sure she like took care of her staff, but it's just not enough. It's really the police department that has it's issues and it's in the culture of the cops. So the new generation - and by that, I mean cool groups like byp 100, in defense for Black lives and myself, you know, like at least the people that were there - we don't, we don't really want to talk to the police about any type of Reform. We are pushing for defunding, for abolishing the police. When they fire her, you know, like so be it. That's another, yep. Sadly. They're going to put somebody else and sadly, I don't know what that person will do. I know what she thought was doing. Who I wanted to resign is Mike (inaudible), which is a police-department association leader or like whatever he is. He's the one that advises them. He advised Amber Guyer whenever she killed, Walter John, you know, I want him to resign. Yeah.

00:52:45.000 - 00:55:24.900

Okay. Um, so do you think we will see - some cities actually are defending their police to some extent - do you think Dallas is going to do that one day? I believe Dallas will do it and I'm confident on that because, so Austin defunded the police, right and they really should be defunded. They're like, I think I looked at the actual run down and it was not much. It was really 7 million out of like, I don't know how many freaking millions they got. And during the initial proposal, the council member was actually asking for 20 million to be defunded and people went crazy. And even with 7 millions, even our Texas governor decided to come to Fort Worth because he's very proud of the conservative Forth Worth and he made a statement saying well if any other city does the defund the police don't even don't even consider raising your minimum your property tax, and it's interesting that he said that because Dallas especially, and Houston too. It's a city that is based mostly on the property tax because of the new people coming from California, coming from this other areas, or the feeling of defunding the police, right? And after seeing that in Austin, I do feel like it's going to happen in the, in Dallas, but I would dare to say that it will be in like four years. Okay. Um, so we're winding down a little bit. So I'll ask you some like kind of concluding questions. Are there any - some people are inspired by certain activist from the past? Is there one that you kind of look up to? Hmm, a few that I would say. Three of my mom's influential ones. Definitely Cesar Chavez when he started the Chicano movement and he started the unions and labor movement. I really looking for his story and the way he did it, you know. With the Chicano leaders, I look at the at de la (inaudible), de las (inaudible), same time as Cesar Chavez but I feel like the way she did things and the way she was able to be so influential with other people, you know, and the connections she created. It's something I try to do myself. And ultimately, like many people my age, I-I love Angela Davis. I have read everything she publishes. Probably just like her during her prime whenever she was arrested during the-what's his name? What was his campaign? Ronald Reagan years - her being in the prison and even organizing her own protest from the prison! It's so inspiring that yeah, we follow her steps for sure. Yeah.

00:55:24.900 - 00:56:56.200

Why do you keep going to those protests like why are you so sure? I actually don't go to the protests as much anymore with my friends. Sadly. It has slowed down. Now, there's only one group protesting every day or so. It's not as regular either and there they have their own message, right they're going for it? But like I don't know, like even being near them you have to be a bit mindful too they don't even like when you don't go hard like that. So... but I try to go still like 2 protest a week - I have one this Saturday, but I think I keep going because this is just the beginning. And when we say I'm down for the cause. We mean it, you know, when we say to (Spanish phrase). We mean it. Like it is my fight too and we're going to continue fighting every day to the point that we need to start thinking about what's next. And what's next for me, for example is making sure that I get this degree so that I can get into the EPA and get rid of all this awful laws that we have for, yes, for you know, for our environment. The next steps for other of my friends really mean quitting their jobs, you know, I've know three people that have organized with me since the protests started and they have quit their jobs to organize full time. We actually work with the Sunrise Movement. So we're mostly doing that with them, but we do work with Our Revolution a lot. Okay, are there any questions I should have asked you? I don't think so. But I do want to squeeze something, if that's okay? Yeah

00:56:56.200 - 00:58:32.600

go ahead. I I do care a lot about the environment and I feel like that's the main reason why I promoted, you know, like I promote climate change and Sunrise Movement so much, but I do think intersectionality something that we need to talk about a little bit more especially during this time. There is not one single issue, especially this time. You cannot show up in Black and say black lives matter without also standing for this mass incarceration and end mass incarceration and legalizing marijuana, you know, all these other alternatives they are also an issue for you too. Because when you say black lives matter, it means many things. Land bank. It's something that I've been pushing for the most in the past week. So intersectionality is something that we need to start addressing and I do think climate change needs to be one of the main subjects that even our candidates or future candidates address. So. And I think I have one more question to kill the rest of the time. You're doing awesome, by the way. Um, how do you think of this moment will be seen in the future? I am excited because I do feel like we are living history. I remember hearing for this - I remember hearing for this about the 70s and the 80s and everything happening then I do think the generation after us will talk about 2020 s and about what happened after the Obama administration - the hope, the aiming for change, but not really being for change. I feel like our generation now really wants change and they don't just want to say it. So... Okay

00:58:32.600 - 00:59:40.600

and what do you want people to know about this movement today and in the future? I really want people to know that this movement encompasses a lot of movements. That if it was possible this time around and that if Black people are free, we're all going to be free and I do want people to know that like every single phone call that was - at least from now on - every phone call that we made with Our Revolution to do a phone bank to talk to our electorates, every single email that we write for a council members, they matter a hundred times more because we are no longer just asking for permission we are demanding the things that we want. We stop just being nice, you know, we stopped just asking them to care for our lives and for our city, we started demanding them to treat it like-treat us like they care and if not, we will move them out. If not, we will find a way right by any means necessary. We'll get our way. That's that's the tagline, any means necessary. It's gonna happen! Well,

00:59:40.600 - 01:00:28.800

thank you so much. That's basically our time you did an awesome job and I'm really excited and you address a lot of really cool stuff and text me like some of those organizations Will do. I actually I mean, I'm not trying to just put it out there just to like, you know, like to get your people, but if you know anybody that does care about the environment and even they would like to maybe write something about it at UNC I would love for you to maybe connect me with them because we're starting at Sunrise movement, Denton County Hub. It's basically the same thing that we're doing here in Dallas, but this one is going to be focusing Denton because there are a lot of even progressives at UNC and we want to find them, you know, all those Bernie supporters need to join us. K, cool. I'll try to post something about it online. Thank you so much, and I'll let you go. Okay. Thank

01:00:28.800 - 00:00:00.000

you so much. Bye! SEGMENT SYNOPSIS: The following transcript is automated and may not provide an accurate transcription of the interview. There may be typos or inconsistent line breaks. Please refer to the attached document for a more accurate transcript. SUBJECTS: Black Lives Matter; Dallas-Forth Worth, Texas; Activism; (Virtual Interview)