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It is November 26th 2019, and this is an interview of row and Roebuck by Merit Orchard. For the Meridian Hill, Park oral history. Project recorded at Mount Pleasant Library. Do I have permission to record this interview? Yes, you do have permission to conduct this interview? Excellent. Could you? Okay, my name is Roland Roebuck. I was born in 1947, August 17, 1947 in New York. I then relocated with my mom to Puerto Rico in 1951 and I stayed in Puerto Rico all the time until. As a matter of fact, I attended School in Puerto Rico from first grade to high, School, my father is from st. Croix Virgin Islands of my mother is from Puerto Rico. So, I've been in those two islands, absorbing a lot of culture learning a lot and enjoying myself.

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So, when did you come to Washington? D.c., okay. I was I think I have to give you some background. Meaning I was up at College of the Virgin Islands. I'm from there, I was drafted into the military back in. 1969, and instead of going into the army, I decided to join the Air Force. So I was in the Air Force from 1969 until 1973. So I served in Thailand Philippines Okinawan Vietnam, and the reason why I served in those countries, this is because I did not want to serve in the United States. Why because I was drafted and the people in colonies of the United States. Cannot vote for the president. Who is drafting you. So I have some serious reservations with respect to my participation in the military. So after I got an honorable discharge Back in 1973, I relocated to Washington not too far from here. I recited at 2400 16th Street, the envoi, which is right across Malcolm X Park. So I started working with youth Advocates, then the Latino leadership, recruited me to work for the office of the mayor on Latino Affairs. So I worked there for many years and then I transition into the Department of Human Services and I retired from government in 2008. So my brother Sister live. As a matter of fact, both of them live across the park right now. One lives at the envoi and the other one at the Dorchester Still live nearby here then I would say about nine minutes, I'm at Petworth but I lived almost 27 years at the envoi right across from the park. And there I was a tenant leader. So I organized tenants because at that time there was a lot of interest by real estate for to convert buildings into condos. So I was president Dint of a tenant association for many

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years. So what was it like, It was excellent because we did not have that many white people. Ok, was not gentrified. So most of the people that were there were folks from the Caribbean English-speaking Caribbean, Latinos Etc. It had a different flavor. It was very culturally enriching to come across people from the different Caribbean islands and I was able to develop a long list of friends from those regions, but I was active in organizing the Latino Community. As a matter of fact, I'm considered one of the community leaders. So do you you lived across from the park? Do you remember that the first the first time you went to the park? The first time I went to the park. Oh my God. 19, if I am there

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1974. Hmm. I don't think I could remember the first instance, but I was attracted by The rhythms from the park. That at times interfere with my sleep. But I decided to join. The group and I started playing cow belt. And then, I graduated into drumming. So, at that time, the majority of the people that were drumming were from the English-speaking Caribbean and also some Latinos from the Dominican Republic, Cuba Etc. But we did have a lot of trinidadians that used to play with us. So so, was it the music that Drew you there? First, the music that we play was mostly our own interpretation of African rhythms because we had the elders that were exposed to many African rhythms and they assume the responsibility of teaching us So, I was able to acquire certain drumming dexterity. By listening and being coach by the elders. Who took it upon himself to teach us now? Why was it important for us? To play the drums. It is a direct connection between us and Africa. Meaning that the drum allowed us to transport ourselves into the African continent. so, when we play, When we play, we go and sort of into a trance. And the trance is very, very deep to the point that you don't even feel fatigued. Because you, you are motivated by other drummers, you motivated by other dancers. And you go into this flow and you keep playing, and you keep playing and you keep playing. And like I said, you're you're sort of Able to control your body to such an extent that you don't feel fatigued. So that was plus the drum brought different people together. Okay, so the drama became the center of the central point for communication. And companionship that transcended geography, race language, Etc. So the language of the drum becomes sort of universe. so that was one of the reasons why I appreciate that interaction, because I see it as one of the few places in DC where you have a true level of integration. The other places like restaurants, you know, white sitting here, black sitting here excetera and now with the massive intrusion of gentrify fires that has also polarized the various groups. And the cohesion that we enjoyed before it's no longer there. Because the new gentrify errs, many of them, don't give a damn about the

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community. They want peace and quiet, they don't want go-go music. So, next question, do you remember what you called the park when you first? Oh, we call it Malcolm X. The white people call it Meridian Hill Park because of the meridian and the division and blah, blah blah blah blah. We call him Malcolm X park because that was the Gathering point for the African Liberation movement. And many African leaders. Used to meet there. So the park itself was a gathering point for advancing civil rights and expressing solidarity with Africa. And plus it was near Howard dorm so a lot of the students used to gravitate

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towards the park, but at one point they deteriorated and there was, you know, some level of crime, prostitution, Etc. And then late 2000 national parks, decided to invest more money and upgrade the park. And now it's I find it very intriguing because you have all sort of

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people at this part. And people gravitate towards the park because they feel safe. And see, although we had some gentle fires and white folk that asked her to leave from one section of the park. That was near 15th Street. So we had to relocate further down. That was okay, you still enjoy playing, but you cannot assume that the neighbors, especially the gentrify fires, enjoy listening to this constant Drummond. So the national parks impose a limit. So after 89, 9:00, we have to finish. but if you leave the folk that the

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play all night, So as it has about limit disrupted, the way, they know because we start early, you see and then we also had a very interesting Dynamic that evolved. And it's Center on the following. Like around 2. You will see the Latinos afro-latinos playing. Mostly afro-cuban music. And on the other side, you have my Afro-American Brothers, doing their African rhythms. So, around five. The folk they let the afro Latino folk gravitate towards the other group and it become a large assembly. So what they want, they still want to do Cuban, mostly Cuban. Salsa Rhythm, you dance, you know how to

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dance. I don't know how to do any like really cool. Like what anything I do I can I can dance but not well has that always has that division of like what kind of music is played. We're always happened, or is it some? Yeah, some time we get into a little conflict because some of the Latinos will start playing a particular beat hoping that the rest of the drummer's Will Follow That beak. And they don't. But most of the music that's played is African beat salsa. We also play Merengue. We all sometimes. We try to do a little Brazilian but it's kind of difficult but we try to little Brazilian stuff and that's about it. Those are the main, the main Rita, I'm sorry. Rhythms that would play. Do you have a favorite?

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Oh, I like the African beat because I have a responsibility to keep the temple. That's why you see this big drum. I'm the one that keeps the temple and it's a big responsibility because sometimes base of my youthfulness, know my Advanced age, I slowed up the beat Okay, I slowed up the beat and the guys complain. The same robot you slowing up and they'll do like speed it up. So I control the pace of the sessions at times because there is another guy that also have a big room. So we'll usually have two or three big

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drums. Oops. And that. like I said, give us an opportunity to engage but you also have to be careful because with that. Drumming, if you don't, I'm one of the few that protect his

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ears Got to have. You ear protected especially when you've been playing for that long. Yeah yeah some of the guys don't but I do so yeah, my

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earplugs. Are there any other? Yeah because now with the gentrify fires, you have some that have integrated themselves into the group. So you have representation of people from India, you have people from Asia, you have people from Pakistan, you have white folk that could play well. So this is how it works. Those that know how to play well. They are close to each other. There is a protocol that says, if you don't know how to play, you have to maintain some level of distance because we don't want you to disrupt the beat. So eventually as you acquire more dexterity, what your drumming, then your proximity towards us. The main players increases. So there is like an unspoken graduation process by which you can move up the scale. but the elders, we assume the responsibility of teaching others the beat Because we can tell, you know, when they messing up and we do it in a very cordial way, you know, there's no fight in is, I mean, we argue, but we don't we don't fight. I'm talking about

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physical fights. So, it's very harmonious. Are they some of the same guys in the elders? Some have died. Some of the guys have died and it's very interesting to see some of the young people. That used to be dancing with us now, you know, as an adult as adults, you know, some

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move, some come back, but they know that when it's warm and it's a Sunday that we will be there. So And I think, and another interesting thing. Is that we don't know each other's names. I mean, we've been playing for two hundred years over there but we don't know each other's name. So I was going to propose that on a particular Sunday. We wear a name tag or something. Two. I mean, enhance the relationship a little

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better. We identify each other by the drums that will play. Oh, he played the bass drum. Oh, he plays at this. That's how we identify what each other. It's like, you've created kind of like your own language Community. Yes, I could say so because it is on spoken because when we plane by certain beats will know whether or not we have to accelerate decrease or stop. You know what? Like when the section when we are really exhausted

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whoo-wee, especially me I will hit in a particular manner. To send the message. Look, we get it ready to stop. So be something like and that ends the session. So we don't have to say, oh fellows, we are now getting ready to stop.

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Is it exhausting to draw? No, no. Because as I said earlier, you go into a trance and which fatigue does not become an important factor. So you are able in some kind of strange manner. Of a comfort Teague. because the intent is to communicate with Africa. And and and and and you will see, even some of the ways in which the drummers dress. You know they put on their African garbs, Etc. And just Enjoy themselves. It's about enjoyment is about companionship is about togetherness. It's about social harmony. It's a Sacred Space. In which we feel very comfortable. We feel very how can I say empowered and people and I'm messing with us, we could be free flow

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there You know, so this is, it's a, it's a great. And then the other thing is, when we see members of the African continent, Coming to our drumming Circle. And admiring what we are doing. That also make us feel good. You know, especially when we looking at the Ethiopians. And they come. In other words, if you are From the African continent. Be it Senegal Nigeria, Ghana benigni, Etc. And you come to the circle? Temporarily. You will be transposed back to your point of origin. So, the Drummond circled provides you with an opportunity to recreate your point of origin. and that and you could see it by their expressions like they are acknowledging and saying, you know, they'll do the shake their head and say you got the

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right beat Are there other places in the city that you get that kind of feeling or is I usually play at this spot but I think there is a another drama Circle in Dupont Circle. Drumming Circle at Dupont Circle. That's some redundant but that's okay. But I have never played over there. I like this spot. I want to talk a little bit about kind of like this, like the surrounding communities and neighborhoods around the park. So do you identify like what neighborhood you're from? Yeah, I'm right there. You know, Meridian Hill the center? The International

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Center? Yes. That's part of our area. That's where the building is located. The building is next. That was used to be a university,

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Antioch. We're back. So we are right there in the corner of 16 and Crescent. but the neighborhood, when I first got here, That. Celebrations. Speaking Spanish refold. Fighting government to ensure that they provided services to the Latino

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community. So I was one of the leaders I'm still one of the leaders but I'm in a stage right now in which I'm entering the younger generation. That's why I'm tight with Manuel men, this because he's one of our evolving leaders and that's my

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charge right now. So, What was happening? At that time. We had back in the 80s. You have migration. of salvadorians coming into the sea bass on the u.s. sponsored war in El Salvador, which lasted twelve years and thousands of people were killed because we had an insensitive government that tried to oppress the people So, those folks had to be integrated into the community and many felt comfortable in DC. But we also have a very interesting Dynamic that took place. So we have all this, let's call it harmonious relationships. but then, The fiver of the Latino Community gets transformed with the presence of salvadorians. Now, what is interesting about the

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Salvador's? It is that they come from a region that does not have a high presence of Afro salvadorians. So, they have not had a long historical interaction with black people. so they come to DC, child, click City back in the 80s and Racism, within the Latino Community increases based on their presence. Because they're very racist. And when I say racist, I mean it and I can prove it based on the history that I know about the place. And your experiences if you're here, right? Right now, I'm not saying that also, the dorian's erase it because I have dear friends that I love to death. No, not to that. I like him a lot, but I'm not gonna die for them and they know it. But I'm talking about institutional racism. I'm talking about

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racism towards indigenous communities in their own country. Back in 1937, they had a serious Massacre. Bordering and genocide of the indigenous people in a Salvador. So, you have all these historical accounts that in some way impacted there. Internal view of black people. so the black people also demonstrated some level of resistance because they're their argument, is this hey, we busted our ass during the Civil Rights, struggle, and these Latinos are coming over here enjoying

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Our sacrifices, there were also conflicts related to salaries. Because the system was interested in hiring Latinos because of economic desperation. and, The work for less and that created some animosity with my black brothers that were saying hey we got to maintain some standards of wages and you can undermine but the Latino community of the Salvadoran Community had a Duo response, dual financial responsibility. To survive here and at the same time, since I'm be Juju. To their respective communities. Challenge. Yeah. Because they all other nations. The other Latin American nations. They look down upon the Salvador's. This series. By the way, they look the way they speak their height. they don't have that many real blond people, I mean, all kind of

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weird racist, Manifestations by other Latin American Nation. But like I said, my interaction with them because they some of them know how I feel about a race so they're not going to come around me with all that nonsense. But being afro-latino, I have a strategic position which I hear the gossip from my Latino people.

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And I also listen to the gossip by black people when they talk about each other. So I'm kind of a little part-time bridge and I try to correct their misconceptions about each other. So, I play that role. Let's talk a little bit about activism than do you consider yourself an activist? Yes I consider myself. An activist because I have a low tolerance for abuse. and my reputation in the community, is that of an advocate and I advocate, Across the

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board. You know, you have a problem because I used to work for the office of the mayor on Latino affairs. I was the director of the community relations almost a community relations specialist. So, though I was a government employee, I

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also spent a lot of time in the Latino community at that time. Advocate. so, my advocacy is across The board challenging government challenging institutions. Like for example, the Smithsonian back in the 90s, I challenge them. I said you have to recruit more I for Latinos. Univision. You have to hire more afro-latinos when Henry Cisneros was the president of Univision. I jump all over his case because he was not hiring out for Latinos. So that that has been. And when I was in college at the University of the Virgin Islands, I was also part of the student council So I have a legacy of being involved in many things, even up to the present night with frequency, I go to Denmark to

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address. students related to race issues because the Danes, Were the colonizers in the former Danish, West Indies? So they were in the what you would, you would know today as the Virgin Islands back from 1666 until 1917, the Danes were the colonizers. And in 1917, the US by the islands, for 25 million in gold, thus, becoming the US Virgin Islands. So, I've been invited by the Department of Education, in Denmark to

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to do lectures. It's kind of fun to see real blond people that don't have to go to the pharmacy and get their hair color because they drew blondes. Did you ever protest in the park over? You're an African Liberation there. Yeah, I used

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to used to March. Yeah, I did that in terms of seeing all these people with different signs and posters Etc. Marcin Down to the White House and other institutions made when, when there was a serious boycott against South Africa, they used to start their own from there. Move to the Embassy. So the park even during the period of enslavement, It is said that enslave Africans used to meet at the park. I mean, it was not a part but in that particular area to plan, Liberation movements of the, it has a very interesting history, a long Legacy of being kind of a space, really Christmas. Yeah and then I don't know if you know but there was a lady by the name of

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Henderson. And there's an castle that was knocked down back in Italy. But she wanted 16th Street to be called The Avenues of the Americas and have Embassy. That's why on 16th Street you have so many

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embassies, you know, Pollard Cuba Spain, mejico Lithuania. She wanted all of them. but I don't think the project

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materialize, but you got equally Italian Embassy was there to right across the Spanish in this Canadian embassy was there too. And in my building, the envoi,

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2416 Street. The reason why I was designated receivers historical, designation was because Thomas Mazurek First, one of the first. Yeah, leader of the Czech

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Republic. Used to live there. I used to telling people that he used to live in the unit that I said you stay there. So the building has have you been to the building? You should go say look, I'm doing a

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project kind of wanted to and then that building is very interesting because in the back, what the slave quarters They used to have two small buildings with the servant used to live. then, and the rooms were Spacious. Did you gather when you went? So when you would protest or celebrate at the park, where the spaces that you gather different from, where you would draw from, or, did you still drum? No. No. Because sometimes they would, those protests would be accompanied by drumming.

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Yeah, tell me. Yeah, you would have, you know, what's the name? Stokely Carmichael. Would be lecturing there in one section of the park. You have drummers So, you have this combination of militancy and African music. And people

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protesting. Against slavery. Protesting against oppression protesting against white supremacy. The treatment of blacks and the African continent. So it was it was a a great, great place. Would you drum? Yeah. Used to drum. No, that's early. So I would just playing cowbell. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Later after I

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graduated. So, did you ever know any of the like organizers, who kind of put all of that, all of those? Yes, there was a gentleman who passed away they was Baba on Goma. And he's a drone. He was very serious. There was another guy named Williams. He passed, you know, quite a few people have passed. And then when they pass, well, obviously we go to the funeral, but then sometimes we put up a picture of them

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at the park by a tree. So we trying to recreate the presence in the drumming Circle and some of the family members will come, you know, some of the guys will feel motivated to get up and speak. To pay tribute to that particular

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individual. And, and also at the funerals. The funeral homes or the churches. You also have the drummer's. There's a group called The Malcolm X rumors. Have you met them? Yeah, so you'll be able to catch up with some of them. Other. a part of or did you since you lived nearby, especially did you ever see other I think the people that will protest and against the military regime in El Salvador, they used to meet

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there, I think so, but I can't, I can't recall all the groups but I know that they will student groups. Workers. Group 2. I don't know the Union's used to meet there. Why do you think that people chose that park? Because it's centrally

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located and as elevation is great. Especially during fourth of July, you can just go to the park and see the fireworks, but it's a beautiful Park as well. Designed have you spent some time

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there? Yeah, from the bottom all the way up. So, you did they. Yeah. I haven't done as much of the, like, kind of, like, hit In little packs identity is much, but do you have like a favorite spot in the park that you like to welcome our Province? Yeah, but some other people, they do in our probiotics, they doing what you

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call it. you know, walking the Rope Diaper. Oh yeah. So, you have that, you had yoga. You have meditation. Yeah. Does it bother you that people use it for? Oh no. No. Because I say hey. You have a right to. Participate, but I'm wondering if the white people that are going there to sit down and have little picnics, are the ones complaining? About us.

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Say so, It's kind of, but most of the people that go there, I think it is my belief. That the people are go to the park. Go. They have a different attitude with respect to come England with black

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people. Okay, so I was I would give them the discount. Because they gravitate into our space that is composed of all the segments of the DC community. you have to remember that that is a central place where All ethnic groups. gravitate to, And there's no friction. You see, you get what I'm saying? That you optically you feel sort of human Because you are looking at this mass of humanity, interacting in a very positive manner, which is a serious contradiction would respect to the polarization. That we are currently experience based on the racism expressed by the president of the United States. So, going to the park and seeing this mass of people, From different regions from different ZIP codes of the world, give you some hope. That Humanity will be able to transcend This Racist shit that is happening right now. so, the park becomes a place of Humanity become a place of

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comfort and a place where you can express your home and you who you Humanity in a very, very calm and Suave manner. Question about us. So there's been some narrators that I get to talk to that. Feel like it's harder for them to go to the park when they see mostly white faces or when they don't feel like they see their Community anymore. Well, those people have, first of all, they suffering from internal oppression, And they have not developed the self-esteem in order to assert their equality. Why should you feel less than because you see why people there? They pay taxes. You have a choice. You could go to the drumming Circle. You could go to IKEA by your picnic basket and sit. In proximity to the other white people that maybe also participated in the picnic, but it's up to you. So I will not accept that nonsense from folk that they just want to see. All black people are the park. Does that is contradictory if you want to segregate, Yourself. Go to a different part. And put up a sign saying, no white allowed. This is just for

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black people. It's not gonna work. Yeah, so it's I cannot endorse that very antiquated. Position doesn't, it doesn't make sense? it's like, it's like when I met you. I look at you as a white person, but I'm not going to be feeling less than because you, why? No, we're going to engage from a position of equality of those Society. May look at me differently, meaning that you go to Macy's. And the guard is not going to follow you, but he will follow me. So when I go to a very expensive store, I approached the guard and I tell them look do not follow me. I don't have a police record. I am not here to steal anything. Leave me alone and they usually get shocked when I say that. Because I want to preempt the misconception that a black person is coming to this fancy store and that he has an evil intent.

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I don't But that's the way I roll because I'm very self-assured. You know why? Because I grew up in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands and in the Virgin Islands. I was surrounded by black people in charge white. There are a minority So we come from a place in which we feel empowered. I'm protected and that early experience manifests itself here in the United States because we become very assertive. Sometimes too much. Even The Way We Walk, even the way we walk into a restaurant, even the way we look at white people. We're not going to be. No, we don't play that because in the islands, we are in charge. so, your view Give you empowerment when you see black people in all levels of society. meaning that if I had, Been born in South Carolina, Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia. I would have been a different person. Because I would have been

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surrounded by white people and my attitude would have been turned. Different. You've mentioned it in some kind of like in passing. But how do you feel like people around the park responded to activity in the park? So, drumming or protest? Do you feel like community members supported or were they? There's always white people that don't want to be in proximity or black people. Especially when they drum. But they very cowardly. Because they don't come to the park and say, hey, I don't want you guys drumming because they gonna get their Buck whip at the park. So they will call the congressman, they will do all kind of stuff behind the scene. but that's not fair, you know, there's a limit

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Is the limit after 9:00, if you do whatever and the question is, what it, what culturally what are gentrify is bringing to the park. What? Just bring you drum. Come with a possible

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attitude, will teach you a few things. It's good. My brother. You have your belt to protect your back, okay. All right. So, let me hit the door for you to excuse me. So those are individuals that want peace and quiet should not have moved to d.c. They should have stayed in there. Segregated stir. OH, ZIP

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codes. Okay, good. I thought it was a fight. I was gonna go there. You were ready. A little bit too about. The ways of the park is looked after. So have you ever noticed like a police presence in the Park? Yeah, especially when some individuals. Decide to smoke weed in the park. So we consider the circle a Sacred Space. So, we sort of police that Sacred Space by telling from you are not going to be smoking weed and playing. If you want to smoke weed, go outside the circle and do your nasty stuff, someplace

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else. We don't we don't tolerate that, we don't tolerate the curse and fighting, we're not into that. So the national parks has a responsibility to maintaining Law and Order. So they'll do this stuff but they sell them interfere with us. I think there is animals.

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An unspoken agreement in which there will come to enforce the curfew. But then that their meddling and doing all kind of stuff. So we have a pretty nice relationship and then, you know, the group Friends of the

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Park. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about like what what's his name? What's the name of that guy? Steve Steve Coleman? Yeah, as a matter of fact I was one of the first members of that board with dirty Buckler. Because we became part of the orange hats. The orange hats were like a group of people that used to police the area. Like with the ANC, The Advisory neighborhood commission, and we used to do that and then Steve evolve into the big

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cheese, the the park, and we like him. We like Steve, he's very committed to preserving the Integrity of the park. As a matter of fact we just did at program with them. In which we had one of the elderly groomers a guy by the name of the Goddess. I don't know if you know it Francisco League or is he is one of them Arielle Cubans. Who came here in the 80s and was very instrumental in teaching us Cuban rhythms, he just had a heart attack a few last week so he's a Georgetown Hospital. I don't think he's gonna make it, he's about 90, but about a week, no, last month. Tony Montez interview, regardless. So you need to put put his name down. You need to talk to Tony about

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Francisco. We goris are ig0 res. Cuban, afro-cuban in his 90s. I'm Manuel, and I and some other folk were thinking and how do we Recognize his legacy. So we're thinking about putting a

00:55:32.200 - 00:56:28.700

plaque and some banks or something, give him some play. So that's that. So do you think that the park like the National Park Service? Has any role in monitoring the park or in making it better for people? Like what do you can tell you get? Well, if now we're going to get political. Yeah, please because national parks under the Trump Administration. It's a mess. Let me say it again, so people can get an idea that I'm not Republican. Okay, national parks is leadership

00:56:28.700 - 00:57:54.100

sucks. If we look at the Midwest, And the intention of National Park to decrease the sacred lands of Native Americans for the sake of, exploiting know, listening to the mining Lobby. That is indeed shameful. They have no commitment. To the preservation of the environment, they wish to poison the environment and that comes from Trump. Perry who was the energy secretary that resigned because of all this Ukraine business so you have corruption luckily for us in d.c. National Parks, you know, we have kind of a nice relationship with them. So, I don't know what's the budget for the maintenance of Malcolm X Park but I must applaud. National parks for their commitment in preserving

00:57:54.700 - 00:58:05.900

the park and providing good service. So they have upgraded and they get o national park. Get very upset when we tear up the

00:58:05.900 - 00:58:17.000

grass. I have heard that. Yeah, they get very upset, so, but, People are playing soccer and doing.

00:58:21.600 - 00:59:15.600

Involved in kind of the original, like, patrolling of the park, like the orange hats. You called him, right? Do you feel like that's the job of the community members to make sure that it's a welcoming space, or do you feel like it should be the role of the parks to know? I think that we cannot be making all the demands and not doing anything? So we as Community activists and Community leaders assume some level of responsibility for insurance, safety of the /. Now, you have to remember that not only were we Patrolling the park, we were also patrolling adjacent areas, like the surrounding neighbors. Yeah, yeah. On arm. That's what I used to walk behind

00:59:16.100 - 00:59:47.300

Steve, because in case of any shooting, since he's so big to protect me. And the bullets, will they hate me? I should say this. Yeah I said it. So that was that was part of Thank you. That will be all of the interview for today because Roland has to run for an emergency. And we hope to resume this interview later. Thank you so much.