00:00:00.170 - 00:00:15.440

If you would start, please, with your, uh, with your identifying yourself. Your name years at AU. And then of course, you have an even even another year milestone

00:00:15.440 - 00:00:29.750

that you can talk about. Okay. Well, uh, Russell Williams II and, uh, I was an undergrad at American from 1970 to 1974.

00:00:30.290 - 00:00:39.260

Um, after that time, I pursued a career. Well, I've had several careers, but my major goal was to pursue a career in the entertainment

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industry. I ended up becoming the first African American to ever win multiple Oscars in any category. And, um, once the business that I love, the movie business kind of

00:00:51.860 - 00:01:10.160

migrated over to Canada. I migrated back home to Washington, D.C. and became a member of the American University faculty, and I taught at American from 2002 until, let's see, 2021.

00:01:10.190 - 00:01:26.450

I basically retired the spring semester of 2021. So now I'm professor emeritus. Okay, professor emeritus, let us start at the very beginning.

00:01:26.510 - 00:01:39.860

Okay. Why did you why did you decide to come to AU in the first place? My reasons for coming to AU were not altruistic. I'll go on the record with that.

00:01:39.890 - 00:01:55.340

I, uh, actually went to high school right down the street from American U. On Nebraska Avenue at what was called Woodrow Wilson at the time. And I kind of knew I was interested in the field of

00:01:55.340 - 00:02:09.270

communications, but, you know, I was kind of had my sights set on Boston University. There was a group in Washington, D.C. at the time called Project Open, and what they did was

00:02:09.270 - 00:02:27.070

sponsor bus trips to the major cities on the eastern seaboard. So if you were a diverse student and you were interested in going to say, NYU, or if you were going further north to like Boston, so Harvard, uh, Wellesley, Northeastern, so forth and so on,

00:02:27.070 - 00:02:36.660

um, you could get on the bus trip. You would go there for the weekend, they would connect you with a like probably upper class student.

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And so you would live in the dorm for the weekend. Maybe you would sneak your head into a class, kind of get an idea of what the atmosphere was there,

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and then bus home Sunday night. So I had my sights set on Boston. And, uh, being a student activist at Wilson, uh, one of our meetings was kind of invaded by some younger students, but older than

00:03:02.120 - 00:03:16.250

we are from American U, uh, some ne'er do wells by the name of Tyrone Harris. Joseph Harris. Um, I think Ron Burwell came and they came to our meeting, and they

00:03:16.250 - 00:03:29.210

were talking about, uh, American U and what, uh, the wonderful experience that they had, uh, encountered so far. And we were right down the street. So, you know, if you got if you

00:03:29.210 - 00:03:39.780

guys are considering colleges, why don't you, you know, take a walk with us and we can tell you why we like this as an opportunity. So we actually did. Some of us walked down to AU.

00:03:40.310 - 00:03:52.160

We met, uh, the members of the OASATAU organization. They had an office there in Mary Graydon, and they had a very organized presence there. Um, the I don't think I'd actually

00:03:52.160 - 00:04:04.840

set foot on the campus even though I'm a DC native, driven by it, but hadn't set foot on campus. And I said, I like this. And, um, so long story short, as it turned out, Boston did accept

00:04:04.840 - 00:04:17.260

me, but they accepted me on an incomplete application, which I'm going to blame the Woodrow Wilson High School College Board for that. And the only other school I had

00:04:17.260 - 00:04:32.920

applied to was American. So unlike the students of today that apply to 50 or 70 or 100 schools, I only applied to two. So American basically by default was where I was going to start.

00:04:32.950 - 00:04:56.640

I could have started in Boston in January of 71, but who wants to be a semester behind all their peers? Uh, it turned out to be a godsend. I never lived on campus, but I did have the best of both worlds in that I was locally already well familiar with the DC area.

00:04:57.090 - 00:05:09.930

Um, the campus community was really engaging, and then I could actually come home and study quietly because I have a feeling I would have had a lot of distractions had I stayed on campus.

00:05:11.010 - 00:05:15.660

Probably so, because you were there. I mean, I'm this is like news to me.

00:05:15.660 - 00:05:19.590

I sort of thought you were on campus. You were there so much. Yeah.

00:05:20.280 - 00:05:30.660

Uh, I kind of. I kind of lived there because on the sense that you did want to give your parents some breathing room. I needed some breathing room for my parents.

00:05:30.990 - 00:05:42.870

Uh, and then, because their brothers and sisters, so I had a I had plenty of aunts and uncles in town. So when my parents got tired of me, they could farm me off to Aunt Edna or Uncle Cleveland or something like that.

00:05:42.870 - 00:05:57.050

But it was it was also the fact that I didn't have any siblings in the house. If I needed to study, I could study without interruption and get a good night's sleep and then be

00:05:57.050 - 00:06:14.660

ready for you first thing the next day. Uh, I think I only had three days that I had to be on campus for class, but I was pretty much there every day. You know, I've talked about, um, the how you and I worked with, um,

00:06:14.660 - 00:06:23.570

with Ed Smith, the late Ed Smith. Yes. Um, on that urban communications piece. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?

00:06:24.170 - 00:06:50.790

Well, you know, I think one of the things that made, uh, my and our experience and hopefully the other alums that you're interacting with in this archive, uh, so rewarding was that AU had rigor, but it also gave us, uh, pretty much a broken field that we could run here and

00:06:50.790 - 00:06:58.230

there and experiment and research and interact with different people. And when I say broken field, I'm using a football reference.

00:06:58.260 - 00:07:08.760

You know, they they the broken field running means okay, we had a plan of attack, but we had to change it because of the defenders. And now we're just looking for any sort of daylight.

00:07:08.760 - 00:07:25.950

So Ed Smith was one of those, uh, professors who one of the very few professors of color at the time, but a professor of color. If he saw you on campus, he wasn't just going to say hi and bye and keep it moving.

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He was going to find out who you were, what your major was. Did you have any plans? Um, you know what what what sort of thing did you want to do with

00:07:36.660 - 00:07:53.000

this education when your years at university were over? And I think you and I, who started as communication students, I, I think I started out as a journalism a major. And then in my sophomore year, I changed to broadcast production,

00:07:53.000 - 00:08:09.740

and I thought I was going to stick with that. And of course, you know, we're going to talk about the Spirits Known and Unknown workshop at some point, but we really felt that the media of the day, which were three major networks and in most cases

00:08:09.740 - 00:08:25.160

the major newspapers, were not telling the stories of communities who were underserved, either financially, um, either acknowledged culturally or historically for their contributions.

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So, you know, we went to people like Ed to find out how can we, you know, take this well-established media machine and directed more towards not only the people who need to hear different stories, but even the same stories

00:08:43.520 - 00:09:03.940

they're hearing, say, on the CBS Evening News. but maybe with more detail and granularity that isn't being covered by the either major network or local news stations. So, uh, as you mentioned, we we just met, we just missed, uh, we

00:09:03.940 - 00:09:16.840

just lost Ed, uh, a couple of months ago. But, um, even after working with him on campus, he stayed in touch with me. In my years in California, he was

00:09:16.840 - 00:09:32.440

one of the people that was also instrumental in getting me kind of like on the fast track back into the university community as a faculty member. Um, so between Ed and then I want

00:09:32.470 - 00:09:52.770

to say Robert Blanchard, who was our dean, I'm trying to remember how how those two intersected because it ultimately, I think we had to go to our dean to get a major created with the urban communications banner, but, um, so much of that is a blur.

00:09:52.800 - 00:10:03.300

I just, I just remember that, um, if you saw Ed, you better have time to sit down and and and get the third degree because he was going to check on you. How are your grades?

00:10:03.300 - 00:10:11.820

How is this? Have you done this? Have you read this yet? You know, he was he was about no nonsense. He was all business, which I

00:10:11.820 - 00:10:16.860

appreciated. Absolutely. And you know. And and do you think that I mean,

00:10:16.890 - 00:10:31.320

well, there's so many possible possibilities in terms of fondest memories at AU. Um, is one of these one of the like Ed or or what would you consider your fondest memories?

00:10:32.670 - 00:10:56.390

You know, when I, when I read that list, I actually had to put some things down while they were fresh in my mind. Um, I would say, even before I got to meet many of the faculty that would actually change the course of my thought processes and help

00:10:56.390 - 00:11:15.170

steer me to a career path that I'm now somewhat known for. I want to talk about my first class as a freshman. It was unforgettable, and it was in SIS. Of course, not the brand new SIS building that the students have on

00:11:15.170 - 00:11:27.920

campus now. Um, I want to say this professor's name was Larry Wadsworth, and he he was dressed something like, I have, uh, something like I have on now.

00:11:27.920 - 00:11:40.040

He was Brooks Brothers. While some of the students of color were wearing dashikis, and, um, the women had their hair braided, and then some of the white students were dressed like

00:11:40.040 - 00:11:49.330

hippies, you know, with the tie dye and and different types of braids. And then they had students that basically weren't giving away anything from their style of dress

00:11:49.360 - 00:11:59.110

in terms of their political aspirations. There was a white blouse or a white shirt, slacks and a skirt. Right. So Wadsworth comes in khakis,

00:11:59.110 - 00:12:12.520

shoes shined so brightly you had to purchase. On manicure or the whole deal. He writes his name on the board. He has two stacks of paper.

00:12:12.550 - 00:12:19.870

He takes one stack, and he says, all right, students, he says, I'm Larry Wadsworth. As you can see here. I said, coming, this direction is

00:12:19.870 - 00:12:31.600

our syllabus. He said, I'll never refer to it, but I'm required by the university to issue one. So coming this way.

00:12:31.600 - 00:12:41.820

And he went to the to the window side, actually, my classroom had the windows in the back of the class, so he went to the side of the class that because it was two doors to get in.

00:12:41.850 - 00:12:51.300

So they went to the opposite side and he passed out another stack of papers, which was the suggested reading list. And he says, um, uh, again, I'll

00:12:51.300 - 00:13:04.320

never refer to any of these books, but if you want to read them on your own, because they do have background information that would support things I will be speaking about. Then feel free.

00:13:04.320 - 00:13:19.770

And so one of the hippie kids who was leaning up against the window that, you know, on the Nebraska Avenue side of the building said, well, what the hell are we going to do then? Now I'm kind of like fresh out of

00:13:19.770 - 00:13:24.390

high school. So I'm thinking, well, he's getting ready to get sent to the. I said, well, wait, no, no, there

00:13:24.390 - 00:13:32.790

is no principal's office. But, you know, I said, he's going to get in trouble, you know, in my mind. Right? The professor was completely

00:13:32.790 - 00:13:42.710

unflustered. He says, he said, young man, he says, I'm glad you asked me that question. He says I'm going to sit at the edge of my desk, and I'm going to

00:13:42.740 - 00:13:55.190

explain to you all how the world works. And that's when Russell Williams took out his pad and his pen, and he said, College. Day One.

00:13:57.530 - 00:14:12.230

And, I mean, I was leaning forward in the front row of that class for the next 13 weeks, and he basically started with a quote from, I believe it was Lord Mountbatten, uh, who had been part of the British Parliament.

00:14:12.230 - 00:14:26.660

And I'm paraphrasing it poorly, but he said, essentially the only two things you need to remember to, to decipher anything that's going on in the world. And he said the original quote says, um, England has no permanent

00:14:26.660 - 00:14:38.290

friends, no permanent enemies, just permanent interest. So there's one. He says two. He says, follow the money, he said.

00:14:38.320 - 00:14:53.200

Between those two, you can figure out whatever is going on nationally, internationally, local, even in some of your student organizations, you just figure out you know who's where and what, you know who's going to benefit by this, he says.

00:14:53.200 - 00:15:09.430

But before you get up and, you know, leave class. If you want to get credit for this course, you have to remain with me the next 13 weeks, which we were happy to at least I was. So what I'm saying was that even though I did have a great high

00:15:09.460 - 00:15:23.710

school experience, this, uh, professors like Wadsworth, I'm sure I remember some of my other freshman professors. I took an Old Testament course, which was mind blowing. It was team taught by a Greek Orthodox professor and a Jewish

00:15:23.710 - 00:15:36.990

rabbi, and we dug into the Old Testament and separated fact from fiction, from myth. And it really did elevate my thirst for knowledge.

00:15:37.020 - 00:15:51.390

You know, I could say that when I came to campus, I was interested in a lot of things. I think by the time I left, I was a more interesting person, uh, meeting new students.

00:15:51.420 - 00:16:05.190

Obviously, some of my favorite memories, uh, especially coming from Wilson, where we had a good international student population to be able to sit down with the international students that were coming from around the world at

00:16:05.190 - 00:16:16.740

American. And people had different viewpoints politically, religiously, culturally, um, and just the opportunity to discover yourself.

00:16:16.740 - 00:16:31.560

I think really AU is where, um, not so much fall or fall in love with education per se, but I certainly fell in love with the pursuit of knowledge. And I think, you know, looking

00:16:31.560 - 00:16:41.600

back, uh, to me that's much more important. Education is nice. Education always has an agenda. They're educating you to be something somewhere in the social

00:16:41.600 - 00:16:58.910

strata, somewhere you know, in the intellectual power structure. But love of knowledge is really just wide open. So whether you get a formal education or not, not important, but it's I think it's it's imperative that you love

00:16:58.940 - 00:17:13.550

knowledge. And AU did that for me. Um, I would say in my later years, in my junior and senior years, I really could point to the professors who had a lifelong

00:17:13.550 - 00:17:30.230

impact on what I ended up pursuing. I think in the early years we both had, uh, Ed Bliss, uh, when we were dealing with either probably broadcast journalism. And so I got the feeling that I'm getting closer to the people who

00:17:30.230 - 00:17:38.140

were the icons of our day. And so I really felt we were in the right place at America. I'm glad I didn't go all the way

00:17:38.140 - 00:17:44.770

to Boston. U and freeze my you know what off in their winter time. I could deal with the DC winter

00:17:44.860 - 00:17:59.740

and, um, other favorite things about you. Well, I mean, the fact that a you always was an active school in terms of the student body. So there was never a dull moment

00:17:59.740 - 00:18:10.360

there. You know, there were people coming to our campus all the time, either invited officially by the school or because it's still an open campus, uh, you would find

00:18:10.480 - 00:18:26.230

discussions and things going on down at the amphitheater, uh, depending on whether we were talking about the Women's mMovement, Vietnam, Black Power, um, Civil Rights, uh, Supreme Court decisions.

00:18:26.290 - 00:18:36.600

Uh, there was always something brewing at Ward Circle. If you were a commuter back in those days, you'd be advised not to go by Ward Circle because a few

00:18:36.630 - 00:18:48.120

students, along with folks from all over the country, may have taken it over at some point. So I appreciated that. And, you know, it was a place where you could spread your wings.

00:18:48.120 - 00:19:08.250

And I think the size of the campus was just perfect. Um, having taught at places like UCLA, you know, later on, uh, as a faculty member or as an adjunct, I mean, UCLA is a city compared to American U. So American U was basically easy to traverse.

00:19:08.490 - 00:19:20.730

Um, you didn't have to memorize too many buildings. It was fairly easy to get to class. And, uh, on those days, you wanted to make a quick exit. It wasn't that hard to get off of campus if you had to.

00:19:21.990 - 00:19:39.730

So with all those advantages, what were the greatest challenges? Okay, greatest challenges. I think for me, um, and because there were so many things that you could put your attention on

00:19:39.730 - 00:20:00.310

extracurricular, uh, and just kind of staying socially in the know, darn it, we still have classwork that we have to turn in. And, and those classes, even though the professors didn't all necessarily dress like Wadsworth with Brooks Brothers, some of the

00:20:00.310 - 00:20:10.540

professors could have easily been mistaken for students, you know, in terms of how they were dressed. But you knew they were running the show because they were standing in the front of the class and they

00:20:10.540 - 00:20:21.700

were putting things on the board and they were grading the assignments. And I think one of the things that I appreciated about OASATAU was that they made it very clear with

00:20:21.700 - 00:20:38.880

whatever else you're doing on campus, your real mission here is to get straight A's so that you'll be prepared for grad school or whatever you want to do next in your life, but you do not want to fall off the.

00:20:38.910 - 00:20:49.380

You know, fall off the wagon and feel like you don't have any help here. Your mission here is to succeed. Ed Smith would tell you.

00:20:49.410 - 00:21:00.600

Your mission here is to succeed. So that meant some of the courses where maybe you're not the strongest writer. Or maybe you weren't strong in class participation.

00:21:00.600 - 00:21:14.580

It's fairly clear that that wasn't my weakness. You know, I was ready to stand up and spew, you know, 5 or 10 minutes of whatever, you know, because I knew in certain classes that was going to be 30% of the grade.

00:21:14.580 - 00:21:30.440

And other students were sitting down shyly because they didn't want to, you know, kind of draw any attention to themselves. But on the other hand, there were classes where I had to really dig down and say, okay, I got to do some research on this.

00:21:30.470 - 00:21:44.210

Is this sentence structure going to be what the professor's looking for? Do I really have to read this whole book? Uh, you know what I'm saying? And and trips to the library initially for me were very, um,

00:21:44.240 - 00:22:05.480

kind of problematic because the a library, which is in, uh, what was in what's now the Battelle building was, I would say charitably, was basically a pile of books in the corner. It just so happened for me, I want to say, in 72, let's see, 70, 71,

00:22:05.510 - 00:22:15.770

72, probably in 72. I got an opportunity to work part time evenings at the Library of Congress, and I never went in AU's library again.

00:22:15.800 - 00:22:29.470

Now, this is as an undergrad. Of course, I love AU's library today, but back then, I never had to return to a pile of books in the corner because I had two copies of every book ever printed at my fingertips.

00:22:29.950 - 00:22:46.150

Um. Other challenges. Um. Well, for me, the biggest challenge beyond just making sure I was turning in classwork that was going to not only be acceptable, but hopefully was

00:22:46.150 - 00:23:00.880

going to be exemplary, was I still wasn't quite sure what I wanted to be when I grew up. Now, since you've known me since the college days, you know I haven't gotten any taller.

00:23:00.940 - 00:23:09.280

But I've certainly gotten older. And in those years, in those first years of college, you know, you feel that pressure to make a decision.

00:23:09.280 - 00:23:16.060

So communications was a broad, you know, major. And then I said, well, I'll start with some journalism courses.

00:23:16.060 - 00:23:20.560

And I did that just because that's what the advisor said. Well, start with journalism. That's the fun.

00:23:20.590 - 00:23:29.890

That's the foundation of whatever you're going to end up doing, which was true. And then, as I said, broadcast production. It allowed me to play with some toys.

00:23:29.980 - 00:23:51.610

And so I was fine with that until I would say as a rising senior, my summer of 73, going into senior year, um, there was this thing called the Watergate Hearings, and I got a chance to work every day of the Watergate Hearings, which kind of also helped me turn my

00:23:51.610 - 00:24:06.820

nose up at taking more production broadcast production classes, because I was actually putting the today show on the air. I was working on the crew that was doing Watergate. I was in the tech center while we were doing Nightly News, and it

00:24:06.820 - 00:24:27.770

turned out that at the time, WRC, uh, NBC TV was the only station in town at the time that had a satellite up and down link. So we were also after Nightly News will go off the air, we would beam stories to international destinations from the journalists

00:24:27.770 - 00:24:44.090

who were in town, from Japan or from Germany, or from South Africa or wherever covering Watergate. Okay, so that was when I changed my major for a third time, and that was going to be a real

00:24:44.090 - 00:24:53.660

challenge. I mean, initially, I was going to go for the urban communications major that you and I had kind of put together with Ed Smith and Robert Blanchard.

00:24:53.660 - 00:25:03.170

And then I said, you know, I've been going to the movies all my life. Why don't I take some film classes? Uh, and the advisor said, well,

00:25:03.170 - 00:25:17.480

you can, but you're not going to graduate on time if you take the if you stick with the standard, you know, curriculum because you don't have the prerequisites necessary to graduate, you know, by spring of 74.

00:25:17.510 - 00:25:27.610

And I was like, oh, she says, but we do have another option. I'm like, huh? And that was the interdisciplinary degree where you take three

00:25:27.610 - 00:25:49.030

professors and you essentially take courses out of each one of their silos and create your own major. And by doing that, I was actually able to graduate in spring of 74. Uh, and my degree says film, art history and literature.

00:25:49.300 - 00:26:05.890

And again, that flexibility that AU offered to me as an undergrad was perfect because most people that change their majors three times, some either they don't graduate or they have to graduate late, depending on how rigorous the other schools are about

00:26:05.890 - 00:26:19.290

sticking to their predetermined list of courses. So I'll stop there. Um. Uh. Well, um, I'm going to take us back.

00:26:19.320 - 00:26:35.640

You were not able to do Watergate. If you had not done what? First tell us about Spirits Known and Unknown. So there was this gentleman that I think you've already talked with

00:26:35.670 - 00:26:52.590

named Gerald Lee. So we were all students together, as were you, and we were all active in the student population. And, um, we had it came to our attention.

00:26:52.590 - 00:27:14.640

I want to say there was a gentleman in town that had a legal organization called Black Efforts for Soul and Television. And what this gentleman did was read the FCC guidelines of the day very carefully, and had determined that none of the local television

00:27:14.640 - 00:27:22.730

stations, which was his first, you know, goal. I think he eventually did, you know, go to some of the radio outlets. But TV, you know, was the big

00:27:22.730 - 00:27:41.570

prize. So what the FCC guidelines said was, regardless of how far your actual broadcast signal travels, your responsibility is really to serve the needs of the viewers in

00:27:41.570 - 00:28:02.030

the city of license, which is Washington, D.C., and at that time was clearly a majority Black population. And radio and television stations, for the most part, were broadcasting to the audiences in the suburbs, not exclusively, but

00:28:02.030 - 00:28:21.700

I would say 80% of the content was aimed outside of the D.C. borders. So in his lawsuit, he was basically the one responsible for bringing or making, essentially making the stations hire Black anchor people, Black street reporters.

00:28:21.970 - 00:28:40.060

And as that filtered into having technical staff behind camera, that all happened as a result of that. So Gerald Lee and I working with Tyrone, Pam and other people in OASATAU, we said, well, there's a radio station right here on

00:28:40.060 - 00:28:54.250

campus, and at the time, WAMU FM and AM, the Am station was what we used to call a carrier current station, which only was heard on campus. So students got to broadcast the

00:28:54.250 - 00:29:02.110

students. And it was, you know, good exercise and good fun for them, the FM side. I think when we started, it had a lower.

00:29:05.620 - 00:29:14.820

But ended up being. There. And they were mainly broadcasting European concert music, you know, news and I think bluegrass.

00:29:14.850 - 00:29:25.020

Was a big attention getter and a big audience draw for WAMU. And on the weekends, they did have maybe two short jazz shows.

00:29:25.020 - 00:29:36.540

I think on Sunday was the left Bank Jazz Society and, um, which was anchored by Rusty Hassan. And on Saturday night they had, uh, I think the Other Side of Brother Ralph.

00:29:36.570 - 00:29:48.600

But in terms of news, public affairs and things like that, not really a thimbleful of content that was really aimed at D.C. proper.

00:29:48.630 - 00:30:05.460

So Gerald and I said, we're going to go over there and maybe petition them, petition them for some airtime. And, uh, it was it was really like, uh, the good cop and bad cop getting together.

00:30:05.490 - 00:30:15.980

We just we were wearing suits, we had attache cases. We had our so-called, from using Black Panther jargon, our non-negotiable list of demands

00:30:15.980 - 00:30:27.260

already set. Uh, and we had we had mentioned to the station manager and program director that we were interested in talking about this, and they gave us a date 2 or 3 days later,

00:30:27.260 - 00:30:38.630

maybe a week later, to come and actually have a official sit down meeting with them. So that would have been Susan Harmon, the station manager, and Bill Brown, the program director.

00:30:38.630 - 00:30:50.660

And so Gerald and I were loaded. We had, you know, we came in there and we were stiff necks, you know, back straight eyes, really intent. And when we sat down, they said, well, you know, we decided we were

00:30:50.660 - 00:31:00.950

going to give you guys a show because we think it's a good idea and we actually have a slot for you. And we were kind of like, I mean, we came in there all ready to arm wrestle.

00:31:01.220 - 00:31:16.660

And, you know, we had some picket signs outside the door ready to, you know, they had already they had already decided that this was a good idea. So now, as I tell my students, when you ask that question and you

00:31:16.690 - 00:31:30.340

hear the answer yes, now the work really begins. You thought the work was going to be trying to get that answer. When you get the answer, now, you have to deliver. So they basically told us, okay, this is you got two hours on

00:31:30.340 - 00:31:38.620

Saturday morning because at that time they weren't broadcasting 24 hours a day. And on Saturdays they didn't go on the air until noon.

00:31:38.620 - 00:31:48.520

So that gave us ten to noon, 10 a.m. to noon. Uh, we had to get FCC licenses in order to actually operate the equipment and sign on to the

00:31:48.520 - 00:32:05.980

transmitter log. And so at first it was I want to say it was November 6th, 1971, November 6th or November 7th. If I go to my calendar, I have it as one of those red letter dates.

00:32:05.980 - 00:32:16.760

But I can remember Gerald's father actually recorded our first broadcast, and when we played it back, it sounded like two guys sitting on blocks of ice. We were.

00:32:17.030 - 00:32:30.500

This is Russell Williams and Gerald Lee, and we're doing Spirits Known. And I mean, we were really I mean, it was like we were we were walking a tightrope.

00:32:30.770 - 00:32:51.410

Um, and, um, I think for the first, I don't know how many weeks, maybe 3 or 4 weeks, uh, you'll have to put a picture of a teletype machine in the archival photos. So that's basically all we had access to in the building.

00:32:51.410 - 00:33:07.520

We'd run over to the teletype machine and pull the top 2 or 3 stories and read those on the air as if we were actually giving the community any news they wanted to hear. And the way that this teletype content was written, it wasn't

00:33:07.540 - 00:33:20.170

written to be broadcast. It was written to be rewritten. So when you know the syntax was all wrong and you know, it only took us a couple of times doing that before we said, you know,

00:33:20.200 - 00:33:31.210

we've got comm students here and journalism students and folks who are in broadcast. We probably could create our own news department and let them handle this.

00:33:31.240 - 00:33:44.410

So that's when you came into our lives again. I mean, you were already in our lives, as you know, part of the Black Student Union, part of just the wonderful group of people that we hung with on campus.

00:33:44.410 - 00:33:51.400

But then we said, you know, Joy is all because. Weren't you already working? Yeah, you were already working.

00:33:51.430 - 00:33:59.230

Yeah. And at WMAL at the time, were you already at WMal? No, not at WMAL, but I was I was working on my master's and I had Nicky.

00:33:59.260 - 00:34:10.620

Okay. Right. So we were like, if she's interested, she can be our news director, which you, uh, ill

00:34:10.650 - 00:34:28.020

advisedly said yes to, and just added more to your plate and then recruited some students from American. And then next thing you know, we had students coming over from Howard, and then we actually had a high school student or two as as a

00:34:28.020 - 00:34:43.080

workshop evolved. But long story short, what we ended up doing was taking that workshop and making it as close to what, uh, real world deadlines would be and what real world

00:34:43.080 - 00:34:58.500

expectations would be. So I believe if I haven't lost all of my memory by the show going on the air at ten, we had our training workshop started at 0900 on Saturdays.

00:34:58.680 - 00:35:12.500

And so, you know, you know, students, you know, that era, you know, they probably went out to party Friday nights, you know, and maybe two in the morning, three in the morning, whenever they were just getting back.

00:35:12.500 - 00:35:20.120

And then they had this workshop and they're really serious about it. But, you know, 9 a.m. they weren't really serious about 9 a.m., you know, on a Saturday.

00:35:20.120 - 00:35:37.280

And, uh, our rule was because the broadcast industry was unforgivable. It ran on Naval Observatory time when that sweep second hand on our clock crossed the 12, we would lock the door to the workshop.

00:35:38.330 - 00:35:56.330

So you literally could be outside that door at 9 a.m. plus one second, but you should have been there to press a button if you were down the street at NBC and were supposed to press the network button at 9:00, you just lost your job.

00:35:56.330 - 00:36:00.830

And so people. But I'm here, I'm here. No, you weren't here on time. Try again next week.

00:36:00.830 - 00:36:10.840

And some people never came back. And some people realize, okay, I'm going to need a ride or I'm going to catch an earlier bus. And and all of that was fine because it's like, this stuff

00:36:10.840 - 00:36:17.860

isn't cut out for anybody and everybody. So if being on time isn't one of your strong points, then thank you. Bye.

00:36:17.890 - 00:36:22.930

Thank you for your interest. And the students who were interested were back. They were there earlier.

00:36:22.930 - 00:36:34.480

They were already in the room working on things. Some of the students worked with Joy directly so that they could learn how to write news, learn how to deliver the news over a microphone and so forth and so on.

00:36:34.480 - 00:36:44.740

Editing. And then there were other students that came there and actually wanted to get more involved in the operation of the radio equipment and so forth and so on, physically editing tape.

00:36:44.740 - 00:37:06.690

And that was one of the things that I think made it clear to me that not only were we on the right track, but we had a vehicle that we could then help prepare more minorities to be ready to walk through the doors of these stations.

00:37:06.690 - 00:37:16.710

And we were at that time, of course, mainly focused on the DC stations. Um, it didn't prevent you from going other places, but that's where our focus mainly lie.

00:37:17.070 - 00:37:32.250

Um, and I think the long hours working behind the scenes at Spirits Known and Unknown made it much easier for me to do the 22 hour days at NBC. I'm talking 2 a.m. to midnight,

00:37:32.250 - 00:37:39.420

five days a week. That's when I knew I could make it in the entertainment industry. Not from a talent point of view,

00:37:39.420 - 00:37:52.500

necessarily, but just from pure stamina, because I was like, yeah, baby, yeah, this is the real world. Um, I didn't have any girlfriends that summer, but that's okay. Yeah.

00:37:53.940 - 00:38:10.490

But as always, I could probably talk to you for, like, another couple of hours. But we've got to get Mary Braxton, Mary Deadly, coming on in a few and I, I really I mean, since one of the things that I loved about

00:38:10.490 - 00:38:27.500

going to your, um, your, your class was to hear the advice that you always gave, you know, your students. And so what advice would you give not only current students, but students coming in who, um, you know, who may not know what they

00:38:27.500 - 00:38:39.320

want to do. Um, okay. Which way they want to go? Yes. Joy, I think maybe two years out of the 19 years that I was

00:38:39.320 - 00:38:52.880

teaching executive suite, there were maybe two classes, two times that you couldn't actually be in front of our students because it was something that that they looked forward to, even if they didn't know they were going to look forward to it.

00:38:52.910 - 00:39:10.990

Because you really brought that human aspect of, you know, and work life balance aspect of of the discussion in in focus. But you know, I tried to bring the student population the same thing that my professors or our professors brought to us.

00:39:11.020 - 00:39:27.220

You know, people like Glenn Harndon. You know, when I when we switched over to actually doing film projects, you know, we had professors that didn't cut corners and didn't really, you know, minimize how difficult this role,

00:39:27.400 - 00:39:45.970

this, this career path was, is what I'm saying. So I would tell students, okay, one of the things that I didn't appreciate as a younger person that I want you to understand right now is the importance of people who are the naysayers that

00:39:45.970 - 00:39:51.760

you encounter. Could be your parents. They say, well, you know, you haven't been the most organized person.

00:39:51.760 - 00:40:02.700

I don't know why you think you can do this, or could be somebody that knows that your classwork isn't necessarily the strongest of the students that are already, you know, doing things in that area.

00:40:02.700 - 00:40:08.550

Or maybe they're just as what we might refer to, haters. They just don't want to see you get ahead.

00:40:09.570 - 00:40:26.430

Regardless, these naysayers are key in basically interrogating whether you're serious enough about what you want to do and whether you have what it takes. Because if someone could merely whisper in your ear and talk you

00:40:26.460 - 00:40:39.210

out of pursuing your dreams, you probably weren't going to get there anyway. Because what is that saying? Because the slightest sign of resistance, you're ready to quit.

00:40:39.240 - 00:40:48.510

Well, baby, you don't want to come anywhere near any highly competitive field. Whether it's entertainment industry, whether you want to go to aerospace, whether you want to

00:40:48.510 - 00:41:00.620

go to law or medicine, you know, you want to be involved in politics, you better have a response for no and understand no is always the easiest answer. Because if I say no, that means I

00:41:00.620 - 00:41:11.450

don't have to commit any resources. But if I say yes, that means oh, okay. And now reputation is also on the line. Oh, I hired that joy and more so now, I mean, she's she sounds like

00:41:11.450 - 00:41:25.220

she's got everything it takes, but if she doesn't deliver, then my next recommendation is suspect. So I would tell my students, if you get a referral from someone, then understand that referral is

00:41:25.220 - 00:41:33.410

sacred. That means that it's also pressure on you to deliver. Uh, the gentleman that hired me at

00:41:33.440 - 00:41:47.000

NBC as an engineer when I came to that interview, I wasn't dressed like I am today. Someone called me the day before my interview and said, if you can't come today, I'm fairly sure

00:41:47.000 - 00:42:00.430

by tomorrow all the jobs will be filled. Can you come this afternoon? I was like, oh, you know, because I was wearing my dashiki at the Library of Congress because my suit for the interview was hanging in the closet.

00:42:00.460 - 00:42:07.600

Shirt already on. The long story short, I came to this interview. Uh, the only way I ended up

00:42:07.600 - 00:42:12.520

getting this job. I mean, the guy was nice. He was a great interview. We had a lot to talk about, but he

00:42:12.520 - 00:42:21.280

wanted someone with more qualifications than I had on my resume. But the thing that got me over the hump, which is another piece of advice I would tell the students,

00:42:21.280 - 00:42:32.380

is to be up to date on the latest, whatever it is in the field that you're interested in. So as he was just about to show me the hallway again, I said, oh, how's that new minicam working

00:42:32.380 - 00:42:42.820

out, the PCP 90. And he looked at me and he said, what do you know about the 90? And then I threw a little bit of my AU education on him.

00:42:42.820 - 00:42:51.040

I said, well, I just read a piece about it in broadcast magazine, but it sounds like it's going to revolutionize the news gathering business. And I was like.

00:42:54.510 - 00:43:04.440

Please let him fall for this line. Right. Please let him. And this gentleman looked at me and he said, well, would you like

00:43:04.440 - 00:43:21.090

to see it? I said, well, it's already here. And he said, come with me. And this guy, white short sleeved shirt, gray tie, gray slacks, Brogan shoes, very conservative

00:43:21.120 - 00:43:33.450

walks, this Black guy with an afro and a dashiki through NBC Tech Center. We go back to where the video, uh, focus room is, and look at this new camera.

00:43:33.450 - 00:43:45.930

And we're looking through this window like two women looking at a new baby in the maternity ward, and he said, so Williams. He said, when can you start? I said, I can be back, like by 5:00.

00:43:45.960 - 00:43:57.320

He said, no, we'll call you in a couple of weeks. So next lesson I come back from my first shift properly dressed this time and I just ducked my head

00:43:57.320 - 00:44:08.960

into Mr. Kirkham's office. His name was Paul Kirkham and I said, Mr. Kirkham, just want to say thank you and let you know you will never regret giving me this opportunity.

00:44:09.860 - 00:44:17.450

And that's also important because you know, that door open only swings open every now and then. And when it does, especially for us, Joy.

00:44:17.570 - 00:44:30.050

And in our generation, we were some of the first people to walk through these corridors, in these fields and see what the inner workings of this high level of decision making and broadcasting and writing and all that was

00:44:30.050 - 00:44:41.270

about. And to see the pressure and the tension that goes on just because it's a highly competitive field. So I also tell my students, I say, if somebody gives you that, then

00:44:41.270 - 00:44:51.930

don't take it personally and don't necessarily think it's gender-based or racially-based, or maybe you just aren't delivering at the level that they expect. I'm not saying none of that

00:44:52.110 - 00:45:03.600

exists. I'm just saying don't assume that's the first reason that you're getting, you know, because it's like if you were going to throw strikes for the Yankees and

00:45:03.600 - 00:45:13.530

you come in and you don't throw anything but balls, then we need another pitcher. And in a highly competitive field, we don't have to sit around and wait for the next person to come

00:45:13.530 - 00:45:18.240

along. We've got a line that starts here and goes all the way. Okay.

00:45:18.450 - 00:45:27.240

And to Manila of people who want to be in this business. So it's like, okay, you did us a favor next, just like we did it. Spirits oh, 9:00 is too early for you. Okay.

00:45:27.240 - 00:45:34.140

Thank you. Next, next. Oh, you you. Oh, you didn't think that pouring coffee was part of this?

00:45:34.140 - 00:45:43.740

Not a problem. Next, I told my students I was so happy that when I poured coffee, I just had to remember black or cream or sugar.

00:45:43.770 - 00:45:56.180

I didn't have to speak Italian. A latte grande with this and that, and I would have had that order wrong every time, except for I would have had a microcassette in my pocket like shh! And then played that for the

00:45:56.180 - 00:46:00.380

barista. There's no way I would have remembered the coffee order. Okay.

00:46:00.410 - 00:46:18.410

I would tell my students, if you come into this world, these fields, with a sense of entitlement, then feel free to, because you're entitled to remain unemployed. Don't get it twisted as.

00:46:18.500 - 00:46:31.640

I mean, even as we're doing this, AI is memorizing our voices and faces and trying to figure out how can they do this interview without us. So I tell my students, growing up in DC, the garbage truck had four

00:46:31.640 - 00:46:41.900

people on it, and that was four people that were feeding their families. And let's it's not going to be much longer before the garbage truck doesn't have anybody on it.

00:46:42.350 - 00:46:47.710

It's going to be a robot driven. Okay. Here came. From his [roses cage?].

00:46:47.800 - 00:46:58.840

Now they only have one person on, but they're getting ready to not have anybody on there. So don't think that, you know, just because I went to college and I've got this degree and I have

00:46:58.840 - 00:47:11.410

that, that that automatically means anything. I would say my last little bit of advice is forget the laws that man have written and forget the laws that they even talk about in these good books.

00:47:11.410 - 00:47:27.550

I would say the laws of the universe dictate that you can't get something for nothing. You have to put your own energy in, be specific about what you'd like the universe to set in your lap, and then you've got to

00:47:27.550 - 00:47:50.610

deliver. Is that what makes changemakers? Makers have some combinations of that, and then they also have a View of hopefully how things can be better and how they can

00:47:50.610 - 00:47:57.780

contribute to at least that thought process. In certain cases. We're talking about people who actually make the change.

00:47:57.780 - 00:48:16.080

In other cases, we're talking about people who get other folks to start thinking in a different fashion and start adding some latitude to those attitudes so they can say, okay, I'm not a fan of the cancel culture, and I know

00:48:16.080 - 00:48:27.720

that when we were at American, the campus we went to, there were people who we were diametrically opposed to anything that they had to say. But somebody like Ed Smith would

00:48:27.720 - 00:48:44.240

say, well, yeah, you better sit in the room and figure out a compelling argument to show them why their premise was fallacious. Because if you cancel out, then. Then what happens when they cancel

00:48:44.270 - 00:49:06.350

you? So I think the changemakers that we grew up with, that in many cases we became are people who see a better tomorrow and plant those seeds today. Uh, we got a lot more work to do.

00:49:06.410 - 00:49:12.440

I know that much. Yes, indeed. Yeah. I tell you every time.

00:49:12.440 - 00:49:18.590

Every time. Which is. Thank you. Thank you so much, sweetie.

00:49:18.620 - 00:49:28.910

Leslie, is there anything that you want to add or ask before we go? Nothing from me. Thanks for letting me sit in. Okay.

00:49:29.270 - 00:49:41.770

Oh, and one other little piece of off color advice. Off color. I won't say it's on unsolicited, because I tell my students at the beginning of a semester in general

00:49:41.800 - 00:49:51.190

terms, I said. I said, I'm Professor Williams, as you can see I'm an old fool. And some of them say, oh, and they

00:49:51.190 - 00:49:55.210

start laughing. And some and some of them think that I'm insulting myself. I said, no, no, no, no. I said,

00:49:55.210 - 00:50:08.080

that should be your goal as well, to become an old fool, because too many of you all are getting wasted as young fools. Okay, then I have their attention. Wow.

00:50:08.110 - 00:50:20.050

Yes. I said, you know, it's it's not just accidental that I'm now in my 70s because in my teens and my 20s and a lot of places along the way, I go to the right.

00:50:20.080 - 00:50:26.530

I'm no longer standing in front of this class. I stayed centered. It's like, yeah, I got a couple scars to show for it.

00:50:26.530 - 00:50:40.090

I went to the left and that was, you know, so you have to make good decisions and understand that a split second, a split second of inattention could change your whole life for the worse.