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Tyrone Harris. I'm known around the campus as Ty. I graduated from the School of Communications in 1972 and graduated from the law school in 1975.

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Can we start from the very beginning? Okay. A very good place to start? It's fine with me.

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Why AU? Well, you know, education is extremely important in my family. My mom and dad grew up in Jim Crow South Carolina, matriculated to Washington, D.C. in the 1940s, and pounded the importance of

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education into the entire family. I did a lot of following in my brother's footsteps. My brother's name is Joe Harris.

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He started at American University in 1966. Before that, I had followed him to McKinley High School, and I graduated there in 1968. Because he was doing so well here,

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and because he recommended it with the enthusiasm that he did, and also because he was working on the Frederick Douglass Scholarship Program, that's how it evolved, and I ended up being in the first class of Frederick Douglass scholars that entered the

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university in the fall of 1968. You said he was working on Frederick Douglass. Tell us about that and how that

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happened. Joe, along with Musa Foster, Atiba Bird Coppock[?], and Les Epps—am I leaving anybody out? —started the Organization of African and African American

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Students at American University in 1967. The acronym was OSADO, one of the first Black student unions on a majority-white campus in the country. They were very intentional about creating a climate where Black

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students could be successful academically, socially, culturally, and feel comfortable. One of the ways that it manifested itself was the development of a scholarship program that was

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geared towards the D.C. public high schools. Their mentality was that at American University, you need to be more connected to the community. One of the ways to do that was to offer scholarships to seniors from

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various senior high schools in the area. That's pretty much how it evolved. What was the relationship with the Frederick Douglass Scholars and Pride AU?

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Are those two separate entities? They are two separate entities. Marion Barry, who went on to be the mayor of Washington, D.C., started Pride Incorporated with his then-wife, Marion Treadwell. Basically, it was designed initially to be a summer jobs

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program. It was talked about in that particular administration, federal administration, in an effort to have more positive impact on people of color in Washington,

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D.C., and to give them an opportunity to avail themselves of a college education. They started what was then called the Pride AU program.

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Young African-American men from Pride started taking classes at AU while they were still in high school. As a matter of fact, my BFF,

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Gerald Bruce Lee, who went on to be a federal judge, came through the Pride AU program and started taking classes at American University before he graduated high school. What were some of your fondest memories coming on campus and

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being here? I I mean, you went to undergrad, law school, so you clearly liked it. What What was your fondest memory? Well, my fondest memory was the evening that I said, Pam is available.

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You have to understand that American University is in my DNA in a very unique way that is probably just unique to me. My brother is two years older than I am. He started in 66.

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I started in 68. My brother, Mark, is six years behind me. And my sister, Kendra, is 12 years behind me. And so my brother helped found the Black Student Union OSATAU.

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And when it was time for him to move on, he eventually went to medical school. And that school. And that created a vacuum in the leadership.

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And And I was more or less drafted. I really didn't want any parts of it. I mean, I was, you know, I was an introvert, something that nobody believes now.

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But, yeah, I was an introvert. And just a sense of camaraderie. I've always, you know, I'm not a person that joins a lot of things.

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But if I find myself in an environment with like-minded people, that usually has happened throughout my, you know, academic career, you know, in school. And with some of the music I was involved with.

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So the camaraderie is what I, is what really was important to me. And for good reason. Because, I mean, I didn't know it at the time.

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But, you know, since we graduated, one of the things that has become pretty clear to us is that college is a time where you develop some of the most important friendships that you will ever have.

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Most important relationships that you will ever have. And I could have never imagined that.

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I mean, I came out of a D.C. public school system, McKinley Tech High School, you know, where the school spirit was off the chain and camaraderie and all of those things.

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So I never really expected to find that here. But the truth of the matter is, because we were such a small, concentrated group, that it

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allowed me to become more familiar with a lot of the people who were on campus. And And it was just, it was a very, very natural development for me.

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My roommate had come over from Anacostia High School. He was on the track team. We eventually went to law school together.

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And so, you know, those connections are just invaluable. People like yourself, Marie Braxton, Linda Austin Shaw, you know, Gerald Lee, Russell Williams

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were all in the School of Communications. And everybody that I mentioned in that circle, you know, Pam and I were reflecting on, participated in our wedding. The first one.

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They participated when we renewed our vows and participated in our anniversary parties. I mean, you know, so the relationships, not really knowing at the time how valuable they were going to be, but realizing that

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there was something very, very special there. Because, you know, each of us were unique and talented in our own right. And we just basically, I think at

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a very early point in our development, realized that if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

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And we were determined to go together. And it has meant all the difference, not just while I was in school, but post-graduation

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over the last 50 plus years. And what were your greatest challenges? Well, yeah, yeah. The greatest challenge is that I basically grew up in an

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environment that was inhabited 99.9 percent by people of color. I mean, there were some Jewish merchants in our neighborhood and some Caucasian merchants, but I had never really been around white people for an extended period of time.

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So that part of it was a challenge, just, you know, getting in, trying to see where my place was, trying to compete in the classroom academically, some of those kinds of things. But just the culture shock, really, of going from Washington,

00:10:01.710 - 00:10:18.930

D.C., which was predominantly black, so black, in fact, that it was called Chocolate City to come into American University, which is a predominantly white college campus. And we, people of color, were just beginning to break down certain

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barriers. So a lot of that, you know, we were forging new territory, you know, and we were pioneers in that sense, in terms of the number of people who came at the time that I

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was here and the cross section, because a lot of us could not have come to American University without the scholarship help. There were some people who could afford to come and, you know, and others would just have been beyond our financial bandwidth.

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So all of those factors kind of collided in when you're trying to navigate, you're trying to figure out who you are, whether or not you belong, and you're making the transition from being a young man into being an adult.

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And there is no blueprint for that. And then you add on the idea of being an African American man, you add that on to it.

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So the learning curve is pretty steep. But it's the cliche of taking one day at a time, give us a stay out daily bread. It's all cumulative.

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And so, you know, you go through it. And then at the end of the process, you look and you say, wow, you know, I figured some things out on my own, and I figured some things out with the help of the people who were here.

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And so now it's time for me to help the people coming behind me to help them figure some things out as well. And so I basically, you know, I was drafted into the notion of being a student activist because it was not something that I would

00:12:06.040 - 00:12:17.690

have volunteered for. But I have stepped forward to being an alumni activist in a very intentional way. And alumni activist is actually something, according to that

00:12:17.730 - 00:12:37.740

phrase, because I felt that it fit what I was trying to convey and what I wanted to do and the value added that I wanted to continue to bring to the university. What would you take from what you

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have learned all of the experiences that you've had to help students presently and the ones that are coming in the future. Well I think that everybody I

00:13:08.840 - 00:13:27.300

think is always looking for their divine purpose and without being able to put words to it or even understanding the exact meaning of it, I think that my divine purpose is to attempt to be value added in situations where people of color are challenged.

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I think, you know, we talked about the idea that history repeats itself. We were very, very, we were probably among the most successful people of color to ever

00:13:42.760 - 00:14:06.140

matriculate to through this school as a group. And it would be a crying shame if we didn't take what we learned and pass it on to the individuals coming behind us. Because the truth of the matter is, you know, when we came to AU

00:14:06.140 - 00:14:28.990

in 1968, there was no black alumni presence that I was aware of. And part of that is because the numbers of black alums were just, I mean, they were just very minuscule. So, So, and I went to law school, I only saw one African American

00:14:29.050 - 00:14:47.780

man who was a lawyer who was attempting to give back. And, you know, just watching how things work and how life evolves and understanding that we are connected in ways that we don't always understand.

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And so when I give back, it's not just me giving back, there's a mutuality that is involved in that process and that relationship, because I find that I get just as much out of it or more than the people that I'm engaged with.

00:15:08.960 - 00:15:21.940

I I mean, you know, I can't tell you the amount of times I've gone into a situation thinking, okay, well, I need to go do this because so-and-so needs some help or the situation needs some help. And I come away thinking, wow, I got so much out of that myself.

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So, you know, and my nature is very communal. It is very, very communal. On the block that I live on now, on the block that I grew up on, I'm still in touch with people

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that I went to kindergarten with. We've got a group called Fourth Graders Forever. We met when we were nine years

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old. I mean, so I understand the value of those relationships. And it's not just a matter of

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longevity. The quality is even more important. And And so if you associate with

00:16:02.120 - 00:16:13.090

quality individuals, you can expect to have quality experiences. And again, if you want to go far, go together.

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And I've always had a sense of that innately. And this is just one of the ways that it manifested itself.

00:16:20.400 - 00:16:42.770

So, thanks to your mom and dad, your brother, who goes by so many of us, a lot of who you are is already bubbling up. What role specifically up.

00:16:42.770 - 00:17:13.090

What role specifically do you think AU played in really shaping or helping you become the change you want to be? Well I would attribute a lot of it to a sense of independence I knew that going to college was a very very very big deal and that it was

00:17:13.090 - 00:17:32.010

something I could not afford to mess up.My freshman year, I commuted, played on the freshman basketball team. You know, I walked over to the freshman basketball team. And so, education was so important to my family.

00:17:32.530 - 00:17:45.820

So once I got here, it was almost like I had an opportunity to spread my wings even more than I had had an opportunity before coming here. Because there were some kind of

00:17:45.940 - 00:18:01.520

projects and events and activities that we were involved in, like the Uhuru newspaper. You know, we did an R&B concert with Curtis Mayfield.

00:18:03.940 - 00:18:20.780

There was a black cultural floor, the evolution of the radio show Spirits Known and Unknown. And I was involved in all of those projects with people that I really admired and liked and respected.

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And we kind of fed off of each other. You know, I don't know that any one of us would have done this.

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I couldn't have done this by myself. I don't think that Jarrell would have done it by himself.

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But because we walked into a situation where the communal nature of what we needed to do and be to survive was kind of introduced and drilled into our head from day one.

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And day one. And we saw how the leadership operated in tandem. And we saw how the leadership was supported by individuals who may not have officially been designated as leaders, but who

00:19:06.180 - 00:19:25.000

were leaders in their own right. And so, you know, the energy from that was like nothing I had ever come in contact with. I mean, I went to a high school that probably had maybe 2,500 kids

00:19:25.100 - 00:19:35.470

in it. I mean, it was humongous. And these were very, very, very bright kids who went on to Ivy League educations, doctors, lawyers, engineers, MIT, Stanford,

00:19:35.490 - 00:19:52.420

Harvard, you name it, Yale. So the opportunities at American University were greater because it was like having a blank canvas and you could paint anything on it that you wanted to.

00:19:52.420 - 00:19:59.470

Anything to. Anything that you had the balls to do, the imagination to do. You know, if you were willing to

00:19:59.510 - 00:20:11.970

step up to the plate, and it was a lot easier to step up to the plate when there were people who were willing to step up to the plate with you. It just, it opened up a whole new

00:20:12.050 - 00:20:26.150

part of who I was. And I went from being pretty introverted to whatever the opposite of that is. Because when I tell people that I was an introvert, you know, they

00:20:26.210 - 00:20:45.060

say, no, no way. But I really was. And so I fed off of the energy of other people. And I saw where I could make a contribution to the greater good.

00:20:45.060 - 00:20:59.800

And good. And I found myself being a vital and valued part of a community. You know what I'm saying?

00:20:59.920 - 00:21:11.150

A community. And for people of color, a community has always been everything. You know what I'm saying? I mean, and you know, sometimes we

00:21:11.210 - 00:21:40.660

use the term family and community interchangeably. And so I have always kind of, I've treated, I've always attempted to treat people like extended family, especially if we are involved in something that is important to us and important to other people.

00:21:42.000 - 00:22:03.790

I just, you know, it's just the nature of my personality. So is this the kind of thing where what advice would you give to students who are currently coming to AU? I would say one of the first things I would say is replace fear

00:22:03.830 - 00:22:20.110

with faith. And I would also say that change is inevitable. And And in most instances, when

00:22:20.190 - 00:22:33.170

people of color come to a place like American University, we're moving outside of our comfort zone. And And a lot of times we feel like, OK, I'm moved outside of my comfort zone.

00:22:33.270 - 00:22:44.340

And I can't really handle anything above and beyond these classes. You know what I mean? You know, trying to do well academically.

00:22:44.340 - 00:22:59.410

And academically. And I think that what a lot of kids don't understand, and it gets back to the relationships. You know, when you go, when you graduate and you go off into your

00:22:59.470 - 00:23:14.290

profession, it's not unusual for people to have the skills to be able to do whatever the job is. They don't always have the interpersonal skills because people don't really want to work

00:23:14.330 - 00:23:25.070

with people that they don't like. You know what I'm saying? And you don't get as much done. And so, you know, students, I

00:23:25.150 - 00:23:41.690

think, need to understand the value of these interpersonal relationships, black and white. Because at the end of the day, this is one of the places where you're going to find people that

00:23:41.710 - 00:23:52.070

you're going to be more familiar with than almost anybody else in your life. OK, life. OK, you know, you leave here and, you know, you get the golden

00:23:52.110 - 00:23:59.400

ticket and you're on top of the world. You top of the world. You know, you don't know who likes you because you have the golden ticket.

00:23:59.400 - 00:24:03.450

You golden ticket. You know, but but but you ride and die, people. You people.

00:24:03.450 - 00:24:19.330

You came into contact with here. I here. I mean, Mary Braxton is a perfect example. She marries the guy who is the U.S. ambassador to South Africa

00:24:20.030 - 00:24:27.410

during the Mandela administration. And administration. And she invites all of us to visit her in South Africa. OK.

00:24:27.410 - 00:24:46.830

OK. That invitation was years and years and years in the making. OK, it was being together. Tried, Tried, tested and found true, you know, and so what we

00:24:46.870 - 00:25:02.780

have always done is, yeah, you know, we'll struggle and we'll bust our behinds going through the hard times. But when the good stuff comes around, we we know who we got on speed down because it's like, OK, you know that, you know, this is

00:25:02.920 - 00:25:10.460

this is what we've been talking about. This talking about. This is what we work for. And you know, your son is a perfect example of that.

00:25:10.940 - 00:25:32.590

I mean, I see Westmore as the I can draw a direct line from American University in Osato to West through you to Westmore. OK. OK. And it's like, you know, we

00:25:32.630 - 00:25:50.380

never know what's going to evolve out of these relationships, these activities, these projects. But we've gotten to know each other so well and gotten to love each other in a way that's hard to

00:25:50.420 - 00:26:09.330

describe. And so I would say to students, listen, you know, on the academic side, be bold, be fearless. Speak up in class, go to the office hours of the professor, get

00:26:09.370 - 00:26:26.120

in study groups and in and above and beyond everything else, make sure that you are involved in what would be called extracurricular activities, because all of those things are part of your college education as well.

00:26:26.120 - 00:26:36.920

And as well. And once, you know, your college days are over, they're over. You know, it's a whole different ballgame. But but, you know, you're here because you belong here.

00:26:38.290 - 00:26:54.160

Somebody saw something very, very special in you. And it's an opportunity to cultivate that touch of divinity that we all have. And we're just figuring it out.

00:26:54.430 - 00:27:05.210

We're just trying to figure out a way to allow it to surface for the greater good. So I would good. So I would just say, hey, you know, just go for all of it.

00:27:05.710 - 00:27:20.260

Go for, you know, be bold, be aggressive. And do not be afraid to make a mistake because you will learn more from your mistakes than you will ever learn from your successes.

00:27:21.180 - 00:27:28.820

And one of the reasons that I was an extrovert and didn't join a lot of things was because I was afraid of making the killer mistake. You know what I mean?

00:27:29.060 - 00:27:51.900

And and it wasn't until I went into adulthood that I came to understand that mistakes are part of the growth process. You know, you know, there doesn't have to be a stigma attached to that, you know, but but you know, and I would also say work from the

00:27:52.020 - 00:27:58.150

inside out. You have to develop your own value system. You know, you have to know who you

00:27:58.330 - 00:28:07.770

are and what you stand for. And for. And you can't let anybody dissuade you or move you off from that. That doesn't mean that, you know, I was trying to learn from other

00:28:07.790 - 00:28:27.420

people and all of those kinds of things. But it's like the way is believe in yourself, you know, you know, believe in yourself and and and and put God first and you will find that you at the end of the day, you have everything that you

00:28:27.460 - 00:28:56.200

need to be successful in every aspect of your life. In what sense do you think makes AU so special that it has reached so many challenges? Well, you know. I'll go back to something that we talked about before and, you know.

00:28:56.200 - 00:29:11.600

When When we first became involved in this project. I became involved in this project. I felt a need to to draw on the historical background of how American University came to be and

00:29:11.660 - 00:29:26.310

how it evolved into the institution that it is now. And, you know, I was late to the game, understanding that Kennedy had President Kennedy had done a commencement speech in 1963. I in 1963.

00:29:26.310 - 00:29:35.610

I looked it up online and it said that American University was a place where people could get a quality education, regardless of creed or color. And, you know, that really.

00:29:35.610 - 00:29:49.040

of creed or And, you know, that really. I mean, I had to hit the pause button to try to get my brain around why he would say something

00:29:49.080 - 00:30:02.830

like that in 1963. And in 1963. And here we were in 1968, you know, struggling with the civil rights movement and and just just trying to develop environments

00:30:02.870 - 00:30:21.270

that were, you know, inclusive and diverse and all of the other, you know, terms of art that we know and understand. And And so, you know, I did some history on it and I just basically found out that American American University was founded by

00:30:21.370 - 00:30:35.990

individuals who believed that people of color were of color were a part of the human race. They weren't subhuman and were as capable as anybody else on the planet and just needed an

00:30:36.130 - 00:30:42.430

opportunity to be able to learn the things that were available to the majority. And were available to the majority.

00:30:42.430 - 00:30:55.350

And so, you know, there was a PhD that graduated from here, like in 1913, 14 or 15, something like that. A gentleman that we interviewed

00:30:55.930 - 00:31:22.130

earlier, Dr. Gordon, Gordon, Edmund Gordon, got his master's in 1940, you know, I mean, so, so, so this is a place that has always attempted to be a fertile and welcoming ground for people of color.

00:31:22.570 - 00:31:38.810

Now, people have moved in and out of this administration, you know what I mean, who have the same kinds of issues and the same kinds of challenges, you know, as as some of the most racist people that we have ever run across.

00:31:39.790 - 00:32:08.570

The difference, though, is that the foundation of this university has already been established and there are always people around who can plug into that sense of what the university has always stood for and that is why I think the university has continued to grow

00:32:09.210 - 00:32:16.360

and prosper. And I mean, the, you know, my family has been associated with the school since 1966. That's almost 60 years.

00:32:20.040 - 00:32:36.550

And I personally have seen a lot of administrators and a lot of administrations come and go. I've never seen one like the one that's here now. Sylvia Burwell, Courtney Searles, Fanta Awe, who was vice president,

00:32:37.010 - 00:32:51.040

was, I forgot what her title is, but she was up in the hierarchy of the administration doing several different jobs that were very, very, very important. You know, we just haven't, this,

00:32:51.130 - 00:33:09.290

this is a combination that I have not seen before. You know, people like Edwina Sims and Carlita Pitts, you know, and Raina, Raina Lenny, you know, it's just everybody seems to be pulling in the same direction.

00:33:09.830 - 00:33:20.590

Doesn't mean that there are not still challenges, you know what I'm saying, but we always look for people who not only talk the talk, but we look for people who walk the walk.

00:33:21.630 - 00:33:44.450

And while they have not walked it perfectly, they have walked it in a way that we have found to be amazing in a way that we think is an evolution from what we attempted to do while we were here as students.

00:33:44.930 - 00:33:56.320

And that is why it is such a natural fit for us as alums, because, you know, we talked about history repeating itself. And itself. And so, you know, some of those

00:33:56.400 - 00:34:11.080

challenges, you know, we figured some of that out, you know what I mean. So we want to bring that knowledge to bear with people who are like minded and who are trying to

00:34:11.160 - 00:34:25.420

accomplish the same kinds of things. So, I mean, American University has had that reputation for a very long time, and it has attracted those kinds of people for a very long time.

00:34:26.000 - 00:34:33.190

And it's just it's just a joy to be affiliated with that. It's a joy to be affiliated with that.

00:34:33.610 - 00:34:39.610

Yeah. Yeah. Yes, ma'am. Is there anything you would like to add about [inaduble]

00:34:56.850 - 00:35:11.640

Well...This has always been home to us. Okay. And one of the reasons that it is home is because personally, I have taken people at their word.

00:35:12.760 - 00:35:20.810

Okay. If they have said, we want you involved. We feel like you can bring

00:35:20.850 - 00:35:46.970

something to what we're trying to do. And they treat us in a manner that is consistent with that. It's just a great environment to be an alumni activist. It's, you know, it's a great environment to be an alumni

00:35:47.070 - 00:35:58.320

activist. And I have had the privilege of also being affiliated with the law school. And the same mentality exists there.

00:35:59.800 - 00:36:05.670

We do have a marketing problem. American University has a marketing problem. We're one of the best kept secrets

00:36:05.710 - 00:36:20.680

in the history of the world. Okay. And we need to be out there banging out to our own horn and banging the drum to let people know that this is a place where

00:36:21.500 - 00:36:34.390

important things are happening. And it is a place where they can be a part of that if they are willing to show up. Right.

00:36:35.330 - 00:36:54.190

It is so important to show up. And so case in point was when your son was running for governor, I said to myself, you know what, this is the kind of thing that we have always worked for.

00:36:55.090 - 00:37:03.220

Okay. I remember when President Obama was elected to my mother's Senate, it really surprised me. She said, see the kind of things

00:37:03.260 - 00:37:12.470

that you guys were doing on American University's campus, I can draw a direct line between that and President Obama. Okay. And that was one of the last

00:37:12.510 - 00:37:26.540

things I expected to hear from her. But this time around, when Wes was running, I said to myself, you know, this is what we've always talked about. Okay.

00:37:27.100 - 00:37:44.860

This is an opportunity to bring to bear everything that we think we've learned about ourselves and how the world works and what needs to happen, the kind of support that people need in order to be successful at that level.

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And level. And because the trust is already there. We're not Johnny-come-latelys.

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You know what I'm saying? And people understand that our intentions are pure. It was just a natural fit for us to be advocates for his election because he's a nephew.

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Okay. And I'm an uncle. You see what I'm saying? So, you know, if we take the time to embrace it that way, only good things can come from it and will

00:38:21.910 - 00:38:36.680

continue to come from it. And I'm as proud of that as I am of anything that ever happened at American University because I can draw the direct line from that through you to him.

00:38:38.820 - 00:38:51.660

That would be my closing salvo. We love you, Joy. We love you, Joy.